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Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality?

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  • #428810
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    I am in one heck of a predicament and I do not know what to do. I will start with how I met my girlfriend and everything that has happened since then.
    I started college in 2022 to pursue medicine. I was 17 at the time and alone with only a guy friend(who i will call R) who came from the same high school as me. One day I was messaged by a girl (who I will call B(22)) for help regarding chemistry lab work. I helped her and let it be. I talked to her once in class but I didn’t think much of it. Keep in mind that it was during Covid so we all wore masks so I never got to see her face. Few days later I saw her with her mask off and she was talking about her delayed lab submission to a group of friends. As a natural nerd and rules follower, I criticized her for not submitting her work on time, which caught her attention. We were casually talking with the group of friends there when the topic shifted about my relationship life and I admitted that I’ve never been loved by anyone before. And she responded by saying that I could be her pretend husband. I played along at first but her saying that caught my attention. As I’ve never been loved properly, I felt ecstatic, feeling like she might be the one for me. Not to mention, she is literally the sexiest and most beautiful woman there and its obvious how men were literally infatuated with her.  I kept reminding R about what she said cause it made me feel butterflies in my stomach. We started to text more often and eventually she sent me a picture of herself pouting her lips to give a kiss. Trust me when I say my heart was pounding. Imagine being noticed by the most beautiful woman in the vicinity and receiving a picture like that. However, I immediately told her that maybe she was messaging the wrong guy cause I did not want to fall in love in that manner and I felt I would never get that lucky anyway. But she said it was meant for me. And as a guy who has never experienced real love before, it made my day.

    Eventually I invited her over for a pair study session and I started staring at her more. She eventually caught on but I would always say that I was staring at the interesting wall behind her, which always made her laugh. That study was unproductive but its still went well. The next day I invited her over to R’s place for another study session, where we repeated the same thing, leaving R clueless about all the talking about the interesting wall. It was cute. And when we were in the elevator together, she moved closer to me and I felt my heart skip a beat. Then we bought some ice cream and I offered her a bite of my ice cream and she gave me a bite of hers too. As I was walking her home she asked if I have ever kissed anyone before, and I told her that I haven’t. And she asked me if I wanted to try it, but I told her I didn’t want to kiss someone who I am not in a relationship with. She understood that but she was still offended, and she went home.

    We kept talking for the next day about relationships and stuff and eventually she confessed the she had feelings for me. I told her that there is a possibility that my parents won’t approve of her and I do not want to be in a relationship where my partner is constantly worried about me leaving her cause of my parents. She said she can handle it and I told her that I will only be in a relationship if she is willing to handle the consequences of us dating. She agreed, and I invited her over for another study session. This time, we continued our antics about the interesting wall and stuff until she gave in and gave me my very first kiss. It was the weirdest, most sensational feeling I have ever had to the point that even my balls started to literally hurt. We kissed often and only stopped whenever someone else walked by our study area. Eventually, as she was leaving, I decided to show her a trick that I learned where I had her up against the wall with her arms tied and I kissed her again to the point we were both sexually aroused, but we did not act on it. After that, I walked her home.

    It was getting closer to halloween when I asked if I could stay over at her place for the night. She agreed and I went over to her place, where I saw a naked woman for the very first time. It’s pretty obvious what happened next, and she taught me about many things about a woman’s body which I did not know before. When morning came, she woke up early and made me breakfast and lunch and I met her housemate bestie. I was very much in love with her and I prayed that she was the one I would be with forever. Then I went home.

    We continued talking and going to classes together for the next few days until Friday, when she told me that she had feelings for another man (her ex) and me and she did not know what to do. I felt heart broken and I told her to make the decision she feels right. She asked me what I would do in her position and I told her that I would choose neither, because it is not right to be in a relationship with one person knowing that you are not giving 100% love to that one person and knowing that you may end up realizing that you have more feelings for the other person. She agreed that I was right, and we broke up. But the next day, she came back and told me that she chose me. I decided to take her back again, only for her to break up literally the next day cause I was still 17 (my birthday was literally in 2 months) and her friends told her that its not right for a 22 year old woman to date a 17 year old and that we should wait until I was 18. But I was thinking, what difference does it even make? Cause its literally 2 months til my birthday. Anyway we broke up again.

    The next day, we had chemistry lab and I was very upset and messing up my lab work and when I went to the supply room, she came in and kissed me and told me she could not bear to be without me. As naive as I was I decided to take her back again. And we continued with our dating, but this foolishness kept happening for the next few weeks for all kinds of stupid reasons, but we eventually came around to accepting that we were together. She was a very good girlfriend, always taking care of me, cooking meals for me, ensuring I was always healthy, and etc. I felt as if she was loving me like how a proper wife should and I very much appreciated it because women do not always do that level of caring for their partner. And I came to accept that she was the one for me.

    One day, I looked through her pictures and found one with her naked with only a towel with another man behind her removing her braids. I was surprised at first but I did not get enough time to look at the picture properly because she was in the room. But it affected me to a point that I started behaving weird. She checked her phone and saw the picture and instinctive decision was to delete it, and pretended like it was not there. I confronted her when I realized she deleted it and she told me it was the ex that she still had feelings for, and it happened on the day after that we broke up from the decision that its better to not date at all. Obviously I was hurt and I broke up with her in that moment of pain but then I decided to take her back on the technicality that we were still broken up when this happened, so I cannot accuse her of cheating. She got forgiveness on a technicality.

    Christmas was getting closer and there was a party at my place which we decided to attend at the last minute, after which, we got food and went over to her place. While I was eating food, she decided to go take a shower and then I started hearing sounds of fighting with a man. I came out confused to find a shirtless man ready to kick me out. She had told me that a guy moved in to her bestie’s room after she moved out but I never met the guy. I thought he was trying to protect B from me under the confusion so when he told me to leave, I decided to pack up and leave, especially since I was not actually supposed to be there as the landlady does not allow visitors staying overnight. But my hands were full with the food so I decided to wait while B resolved the issue with the man because I was still confused. I obviously felt angry from the encounter but I was still confused about what was happening. She resolved the issue and came back in the room upset and I asked her who he was. It turns out that the guy was her ex. The amount of anger I felt in that moment was unmeasurable, because when she told me that her new housemate was a man, she did not mention that it was her ex and I knew she intentionally hid that from me. Her excuse was that it was unnecessary for me to know. My father has taught me well and I follow a set of disciplined morals and I do not take no bs. But I still decided to forgive her stupidity. The guy was jealous that she was able to move on and he just did not like me being around, but he eventually came in terms to the situation and we moved on. But his face looked very familiar tho, and I asked her if he was the man who took out her braids while she was naked in a towel and she denied it, and I believed her.

    Then Christmas came and I went back to my home and she decided to tag along too because her aunt lived near me, which came as really convenient. I had to keep my relationship secret though because my parents did not approve of me dating just yet because my focus should be on studying and they don’t trust women in general because they have seen many ruined relationships with cheating and gold diggers and etc. I told her about my parents’ views and asked her if she was a gold digger or if she was manipulating me because the stories my parents were telling me started to scare me and I was worried. Obviously she got offended to the point that I decided to break up with her (after receiving advice from a nurse that I was working with). But a few days later we realized we could not live without each other and we got back together. I even came up with an excuse to go to the movies with her for my birthday and we watched a movie while cuddling (we specifically looked for a movie without many people). I introduced her to my parents and everything and we went home.

    Weeks later we returned to college and we continued dating with occasional fighting and break ups due to her own stupid behavior. Keep in mind that excluding some moments where she does stupid things, she was actually a very good, loyal, loving, caring woman that any man would desire. She displayed all the characteristics that I was looking for in a good wife, excluding the stupid things that most woman do, like overthinking and not listening etc, which I did not mind cause I knew it was normal for women. She even broke up with me cause Instagram said I was online and I did not take her calls because I was actually sleeping at the time due to college work load and did not hear her calls. Obviously I did not play around and she realized her mistake and after several days of begging from her and hearing her cry, I decided to take her back. I felt foolish because I should not be manipulated by some crying but I knew in my heart that she was a good woman and I never wanted to hurt her or see her cry. As a man who truly loved her, I could not bear the thought of her being hurt.

    Eventually summer came, and we continued our secret dating until she disrespected my parents due to their beliefs about women. I do not tolerate no disrespect in that manner especially because I believe that my wife should always respect my parents and that was one of the main things I was looking for. So we broke up then and we fought for the next couple days with constant severe fighting but eventually we got back together after she apologized for her behavior and understood her mistake.

    We finally came to peace and stopped fighting for a while except for occasional hiccups here and there which was fine for me. However that was short lived because she started acting weird again and I decided to give her space and told her to get her act together while I visit my parents, which she agreed.

    Christmas came again and I went back home to my parents while she went to her parents home. Couple days before my birthday, she confessed to having slept with another man last Christmas. The horror, the sorrow, the pain, the suffering, that I had to bear was beyond me. I had to keep my feelings under control cause I did not want my parents seeing me crying. It so happened that her aunt had been giving her money for several months, which she had told me before but I told the fact that her aunt is giving her so much money is weird because no one gives money like that without expecting something in return. And to my horror, I was right. Turns out the aunt was receiving the money from a married man who was looking for a sexual release with a woman, and she was waiting for the opportunity to sell my girlfriend to him for sex. Her aunt was of the belief that woman can only survive by taking advantage of men like marrying them for their money and etc, basically the type of woman my parents feared. So even if my girlfriend was not a gold digger, her aunt definitely was and to my horror, my parents were right. When we broke up in January, my girlfriend was very depressed and her aunt decided to use this opportunity to set her up with the man. She was told to go on a drive with the man, which she did without questioning it and the man took her to many places that he constructed as he was a contractor and he told her that he is married and everything. B knew what was going to happen but she went along because she was afraid because her own aunt set her up and she was stupid enough to believe that I wouldn’t come to save her. Nothing happened that night tho, so he brought her back and everything seemed normal. However, the next day, he came back again for her and took her to a private community with security and everything, and they were well payed off and took B to an empty house. She knew exacly what was going to happen when the man came  but she claimed that she was too afraid to do anything. He stripped to get ready for sex and told her to strip as well but she told him that she was on her period and therefore could not do it. In response, he forced her to use her mouth for his pleasure. When they were done, she vomitted while the man cleaned her self up and then he took her home. Everyone was aware of what was happening. Her aunt, her cousin sister (same age as her) and cousin brother (slightly younger) all knew what was happening and they did nothing. The man asked her when her period will end. AND FOR GOODNESS SAKE I DO NOT THINK ANYONE IS STUPID ENOUGH TO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT HE IS TRYING TO IMPLY. ITS OBVIOUS THAT HE IS WAITING FOR THE PERIOD TO END TO TAKE HER AGAIN. AND BY ANSWERING HIM, SHE LITERALLY TOLD HIM WHEN TO COME BACK FOR HER. And just like that, he came back few days later and took her and slept with her. She could have done anything. She could have called the cops. She could have called me. I would have done anything to protect her. Just cause we broke up does not mean I am a cold person with no sense of morals. Anyway she did what she did and used the excuse that she had no choice. Though I understand how she may have felt in that moment, but that does not explain why she lacked the common sense to at least call for a cop. She tried to justify her actions by saying that she did not want her aunt to be arrested and her cousins to go to foster care. Any sane person knows that this can be dealt with. As an adult and as the oldest, she could have become her cousins’ legal guardian, and I would have helped out too cause I have morals too. The more annoying part is that SHE KNEW BEFORE IT HAPPENED THAT THE MONEY WAS COMING FROM A MAN AND SHE DID NOT TELL ME WHEN SHE FOUND OUT. SHE IS A 22 YEAR OLD ADULT WHO SHOULD HAVE THE COMMON SENSE TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION AND SHE CHOSE THE WRONG ONE. WHAT MAKES MATTERS WORSE IS THAT B AND THE MAN CONTINUED TALKING FOR COUPLE MORE WEEKS AND SHE EVEN ADMITTED TO DEVELOPING FEELINGS FOR HIM. WHY? WHY? WHY IS THIS HAPPENING TO ME? SHE HAD FEELINGS FOR ANOTHER MAN BRUH. AND THE WORST PART IS THAT SHE HID IT FROM ME FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This event had me very broken. The feeling of helplessness overwhelmed me as there was nothing I could do. No way to go into the past and change what happened. I cried in silence. Enduring every moment of misery and turmoil I felt. But the event started raising questions. What else did she lie about? What else did she hide from me? Maybe this whole thing was a lie. Maybe she intentionally slept with another man as a rebound for breaking up with me. How do I know if she is telling the truth or not? I confronted her again about the man who removed her braids while she was naked in a towel. She admitted that it was the ex who she was currently living with. The amount of rage I felt in that one second, was enough to force me to kill anyone who pissed me off right then. But I didn’t. I controlled my feelings. I controlled my rage. My sorrow. My pain. All of it. Mine. She begged for another chance. And on the technicality that we were broken up when she slept with another man, forced me to consider the situation and decided to give her another chance. But ever since finding out what happened, the pain and sorrow never left me. The inner turmoil I felt was eating me up from the inside. I no longer wanted to have sex with her. I feel disgusted. I hated myself. I hated the pain. I wish I could just die. Though we continued to date, nothing was ever normal again despite trying my best to.

    Then two weeks ago we broke up again due to her disrespecting me. She continued to blame me for her own stupid behavior until I grew tired of her bs and explained to her in the simplest terms possible what exactly she did and why it was wrong. blaming me for her behavior and shutting me down every time I asked her listen to me but I eventually got her to calm down and listen. She realized her mistake and asked me to take her back, which I refused. But I still loved her so I decided to look for an excuse. Then I find her posting pictures of herself in a bikini at a resort with her male friend, who is a rich old man. She knew that I did not approve of such behavior, yet she still did it. But TECHNICALLY we are not together anymore so I cannot tell her what to do. So I just decided well, if she wants to behave like she is for the streets, then she is going to be left on the streets. I pointed out her stupidity again and now she is begging to take her back again. She is a good woman overall, but there are these stupid red flags that I cannot ignore.

    What should I do? How do I get over the trauma that she has put me through from her cheating? Keep in mind that she is the first person to have ever loved me. Not even my own parents cared for me the way she did. I’ve never been able to make any proper friends. She was the only person who treated me like I meant something, but she also did all of this. What should I do? I am a med student and I am emotionally and mentally deteriorating. Her “cheating” has kept me in suffering for months now and it has not grown any better. She promised to help me heal but I do not think so. The experience I had with her was enough to make me hate women in general. I am safer alone. You cannot hurt someone who has already lost everything. You cannot hurt someone who does not make themself vulnerable to you. Writing this down has cleared my head but I still have this small feelings for her. I cannot focus on just the bad things, I should give credit to the good things she did too. So what now?

    #428814
    anita
    Participant

    Dear ParadoxMusic:

    Welcome back! Amazingly you started your previous thread om March 23, 2020, it’d be 4 years ago, in three days. You were in the 10th grade and we communicated a bit, back then.

    I will read and reply to you further later in the day, or tomorrow.

    anita

     

    #428815
    Roberta
    Participant

    Dear Paradox Music

    I am sorry that your first romantic/sexual encounter was not a happy healthy one.

    In time you will see how strong the pull of attraction can cloud your judgement and make one rush into intimacy and gloss over or ignore red flag behavior.

    Please do not allow her actions lead you down the painful road of becoming a woman hater, because ultimately it is you who will suffer as that kind of poisonous thought will be toxic to your relationship with the whole world including yourself.

    Keep yourself connected to why you wanted to study medicine focus on your studies, keep well away from that woman and be gentle with yourself.

     

     

    #428824
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Hi anita,

    Yes I definitely remember you and I appreciate all the advice that you gave me back then. I can’t believe I have the honor of meeting you again, especially after almost 4 years.

    #428828
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Hi Roberta,

    Thank you for your advice. but I still feel like she is in the gray lines between Red flag and Neutral flag. Though her actions may be out of stupidity but should I really blame her for what her own family put her through? She said that she hid it from me for a year because she was healing from the trauma herself. But the thing she forgot was that as her future husband, I would have done anything I could to help her heal and it would have been easier for me to heal as well because at least I know I can trust her. But hiding it has made me question what else she is lying about or hiding. Besides, I cannot be blind to all the good things about her. The way she took care of me was on par with my own mother. Cooking for me, getting me facial hygiene products, taking care of my hair, giving me massages and etc. Of course I treated her well to the best of my ability too. I stood by her in all of her struggles, helping her through her classes and helping her financially. As a med student, I don’t have time to go work a part time job so all i have is the money i saved up working over the years of my youth so I would even starve myself to ensure that she does not starve. I also noticed that despite all of this happening, she did not cut her ties with her aunt until she confessed what happened to me. Did it not register in her head what a horrible person her aunt is? Is she still that stupid? Her parents did not take care of her well and so it was her aunt who actually took care of her so that would explain why she is so stupid. But even then, I always told her that if she is unsure, she could ask me for any advice as my father’s wisdom was passed down to me over the years that he taught me.

    I am not the type to let my one experience cause me to direct the hate to someone else. If I ever decide to go into another relationship, I will still continue to be a loyal and caring boyfriend, but I really don’t feel like going through this drama again. My father taught me to love one person and only one person. I grew up with that belief. Now its very difficult for me to detach myself, especially knowing all the good things about her, I know that it is very difficult to find someone like her again, despite all the red flags. The women these days are becoming more entitled and feministic. They are not wife material (I am speaking generally so no offense to any female reading this). And the same applies to the men too as they are becoming more of an ass (forgive my language). She was a good companion to me, but the decisions she made of her own stupidity is deteriorating my mental health. I have not slept properly in months. Should I give her another chance? She says that she understands her mistakes, especially the one where she would not listen to me because her own friends started behaving to her the same way that she behaved to me so she basically got hit by karma and she is promising to change. Idk what to do. I want what is best for her but I do not think I can ever go back to being a normal relationship with her and that will cause us to divorce if we ever get married, which I do not want. She says I will heal from the trauma of what she did but I don’t see any progress.

    I admit that our relationship started too quickly but she proved that she was wife material (excluding her stupid antics). All her previous boyfriends treated her poorly anyway as they all cheated on her, so I was the first boyfriend to treat her properly. But its amazing how someone who has experienced the pain of being cheated on be able to do the cheating and hurt someone else.

    #428864
    anita
    Participant

    Dear ParadoxMusic:

    At first, as I was reading your story (original post), it read like a love story in the making, a 17 year old (to turn 18 in two months) meeting a 22-year-old woman (B) in college back in 2022, both wearing masks (a Covid Love Story), you were infatuated with “the most beautiful woman” (mask off), butterflies in your stomach, heart pounding… alone in the elevator, another study session…  a kiss, your very first, “the weirdest, most sensational feeling“.. Halloween, you see “a naked woman for the first time” (B), she made you breakfast, you were “very much in love with her“. First sign of trouble, she tells you that she has feelings for you and for her ex, you broke up, the next day she told you that she chose you. The next day she broke up with you, later to tell you that she “could not bear to be without” you. Another sign of trouble: you saw a picture of her with a towel, naked, with another man (an ex), a picture that was taken after one of the breakups between the two of you (hence the cheating and  technicality you mentioned in the title of your thread). When you turned 18, the two of you watched a movie while cuddling, and you introduced her to your parents. More breakups  followed, including “constant severe fighting“, and getting back together again, “after she apologized for her behavior and understood her mistake“. All this so far quite intense, but still in the parameters of teenagers/ very young people in love.

    But then… the story goes into one of life’s very dark sides (reminds me of your use of the words dark energy in a earlier thread). I will summarized this dark side from what you shared: B’s parents neglected B, so her aunt took her in, and proceeded to be.. not a mother for B, but B’s pimp (“the aunt was receiving the money from a married man who was looking for a sexual release with a woman, and she was waiting for the opportunity to sell my girlfriend to him for sex“), and indeed, her aunt arranged for sex between the two, which happened. And this was known and approved of by her extended family.

    Following you finding out about this, in one of the getting back together times, she seemed to not understand the wrongness of what she participated in,  and she blamed you again (“She continued to blame me for her own stupid behavior… I ..explained to her in the simplest terms possible what exactly she did and why it was wrong“). Following that, she “realized her mistake and asked (you) to take her back“. After that, you found out that she posted “pictures of herself in a bikini at a resort with her male friend, who is a rich old man“.

    It seems to me, ParadoxMusic, that you are focused on the lesser aspect of all this (whether she cheated on you or not), and you minimize the bigger story here, this human tragedy: the prostitution of B, arranged by her aunt,  and approved of by her extended family.

    She is a good woman overall, but there are these stupid red flags that I cannot ignore… she proved that she was wife material (excluding her stupid antics)“- the terms stupid red flags and stupid antics are stark minimizations of what is happening.

    What should I do?“- research online the topic of rehabilitating sex workers in the country where you and B live. Not that you can rehabilitate her, but maybe you can gather better understanding of the situation, and  refer her to a good agency that works with sex workers on their rehabilitation.

    I believe that you are correct when you say that B is “a good woman overall“, but she was trained by her aunt to do this kind of work, and she is loyal, I imagine, to her aunt because her aunt took care of her when her parents wouldn’t. She may feel indebted to her aunt.

    Did it not register in her head what a horrible person her aunt is? Is she still that stupid?“- it is very difficult for a child to see a parent or a parent figure as a bad, horrible person. It’s not out of stupidity, but out of a child’ needs to feel safe. A child who perceives her parent- with whom she lives- to be a horrible person, would experience to much fear about the danger of living with, and being dependent on a horrible person. This emotional dynamic extends to adulthood.

    I have not slept properly in months. Should I give her another chance? She says that she understands her mistakes.. She says I will heal from the trauma of what she did but I don’t see any progress“- she says she understands.. but she doesn’t does she? She says that you will heal, but is she healing?

    Be her friend, if you can handle it, but not her boyfriend or her husband, unless and until such time (if it will happen, it will be a long time from now) that she heals and gets rehabilitated.

    The amount of rage I felt in that one second, was enough to force me to kill anyone who pissed me off right then. But I didn’t. I controlled my feelings. I controlled my rage”- congratulations for controlling your rage!

    You had a painful childhood and adolescence yourself paradoxMusic, such that resulted in chronic pain and darkness (“I have this weird pain in my chest that wouldn’t go away. I’ve grown used to this now and I call the feeling I get when I encounter this ‘Dark Energy’“, March 6, 2020). You are a very intelligent young man, and you are studying medicine. Focus on your studies and on your mental health. Help those who need help, if and when you are able, but sinking into their troubles, taking on their dark energy will not help you or them.

    I hope to read more from you and I wish you well.. (and I wish B well too).

    anita

    #428866
    Roberta
    Participant

    Dear ParadoxMusic

    It is natural to want to help a loved one heal & change their circumstances, but sometimes that person’s issues are beyond our capabilities and need professional help. It does not mean that we have failed or that we do not love them enough.

    Sometimes all we can do is wish them well & step back.

    Roberta

    #428898
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    I appreciate everything you have said. Summarizing all the events helped me organize my own thoughts as well and I must really thank you for it. As it is my first ever relationship, I forgave the general “stupid” things she did because I felt they were normal overthinking and misunderstanding that females tend to go through. So I forgave her for the things she did, that is why I continued to take her back every time she behaved in a “stupid” manner.

    “All this so far quite intense, but still in the parameters of teenagers/ very young people in love.” You are right about the incidents that happened in the first couple months could be considered teenager/young people issues that are quite normal. But don’t you think we should be trying to behave like proper adults? Everyone knows that few of the most important rules in a relationship is to not cheat, not hide things, and not to lie to their partner. The first incident of “cheating” happened when she was naked with only a towel wrapped around her while her ex removed her braids. I was already uncomfortable knowing that she had relationships with a few men over the year and slept with multiple men before. And she was well aware of that. But knowing how humans are, I understood that in each relationship she probably assumed that her partner then would be the person she would spend the rest of her life with and so it doesn’t matter if she slept with him before marriage, so I forgave her for her past, because what she did is understandable. However, I think it’s quite disrespectful that she spent a day with her ex partially nude right after we broke up. Anita, how would you feel if you and your partner broke up and the next day he went right back to his ex? And how would you feel if you found out that this happened, but your partner tried to hide it from you first before confessing? Isn’t that a red flag? Doesn’t that mean your partner would probably hide other things from you as well? And how would you feel, knowing that there is a possibility that your partner slept with his ex but denies sleeping with them to you? He probably didn’t sleep with her, but knowing that they were both partially naked, can you really rule out that possibility considering what your partner already tried to hide? I don’t think this kind of behavior is a young people issue cause even adults way older than me have had these kinds of experiences with their partner.

    Anita, I understand that what she went through was one hell of a traumatic experience for her. I totally understand that. But knowing what she has done before, it’s hard to ignore the possibility that she is hiding certain details to make it seem like she was manipulated and raped. She already admitted to me that in her previous relationship (with the ex that lives with her which we can call T), she was using the guy as a rebound after her breakup with the guy before him. She admitted that the guy before him (who we can call Al) was the one who taught her everything sexual related, and that means they have done a lot of sexual pleasurable things that she enjoyed but Al also cheated on her so she broke up with him, and then used T as a rebound. So with those things in mind, it is very hard for me to ignore the possibility that she intentionally chose to go along with her aunt’s plan as a rebound after our break up. Maybe she wanted a sexual release as a coping method to dealing with our break up. But it goes back to what I stated in the previous paragraph: how would you feel if your partner slept with another person right after you break up with them? I believe that is utter disrespect. That kind of behavior indicates that she never loved me that much anyway. If she was able to easily move on to the next man, I think it is reasonable to believe that she never loved me properly.

    “It is very difficult for a child to see a parent or a parent figure as a bad, horrible person.” Ma’am, this is a 22 year old woman. She is a full grown adult, who has already experienced the pain of being cheated on, and is capable of making their own decisions. She was already aware that going along with her aunt’s plan is extremely wrong, and she still went along with it. Yes you stated that she probably felt indebted to her aunt for taking care of her. But do you think her loyalty to her aunt is more important than her loyalty to her own future life partner who has PROVEN IT IN HIS ACTIONS THAT EVERYTHING HE DID FOR HER WAS OUT OF THE PURE LOVE THAT HE HAD FOR HER? A LIFE PARTNER WHO HAD PROVEN COUNTLESS TIMES THAT HE IS A MAN OF GOD AND ONLY MAKES WISE DECISIONS THAT ONLY BENEFITS HER. Do not forget that I KNEW SOMETHING WAS WRONG AND I WARNED HER!!!!! I warned her that something was wrong about the way her aunt was giving her so much money without expecting nothing in return. And the other thing is that the woman has a daughter of her own who is literally the same age as B. She would not have sold off her own daughter. She chose to sell my girlfriend. B knew what was going to happen and she still went along with it. How can any man bear that? How can any husband, father, or brother bear the pain of knowing that their wife, daughter or sister was sold off by a relative for sex work? And the next day we got back together and we went to the movies like nothing ever happened. I met her aunt and family too and they all pretended like nothing happened. The overwhelming grief of being lied to and the feeling of helplessness, knowing I was not able to protect the woman that I loved so dearly is too much for me. But I thought like you said, and I decided to forgive her for everything she did. But knowing what happened, the severity of the issue, has been eating me from the inside ever since I found out what happened. She lied to me for a year anita. She could be lying about some of the specifics too, I would never know. She continued talking to the man bruh. She continued texting him, to the point that she admitted that she developed feelings for that man, WHILE IN RELATIONSHIP WITH ME. How can I bear this pain? How can I ever get over this? Of this feeling of taking advantage of. Knowing that you poured your heart and soul into this relationship, only for your partner to do this behind your back? I have studied enough psychology over the years to know that her feelings for the man may be a result of Stockholm syndrome, where the person becomes attached to their abuser. But it is hard to ignore all the other possibilities. And knowing that I am probably being manipulated by her is also eating me up. She had all the opportunities to tell me what happened. Instead, she chose to hide it for a year, making me believe everything was normal for an entire year. If she had just told me, I would have helped her through the trauma, but choosing to hide the incident has opened up a lot of questions and doubts regarding whether she can be trusted and about the possibility that it is all a lie.

    Months before she confessed what she did, there was another incident with another man, which I forgot to mention earlier. There was another man who was interested in her, a classmate of mine to be precise, and he was not aware that we were dating. And whenever he made his advances on her, she always pushed it aside like it was a small thing. I told her to let him know that we were dating but she said it was unnecessary. Then couple weeks later, right after we had broken up over another fight, I checked her phone when I went over to collect my belongings and noticed that the classmate texted her about the sexual things that he wanted to do to her, and she went along with it, behaving as if she enjoyed it and wanted to experience those sexual things. I was livid when I found out. Can you see what is happening anita? Its literally a pattern. EVERY TIME WE BROKE UP, SHE WENT TO GO ENTERTAIN ANOTHER MAN. LIKE HOW COULD I BE SO STUPID TO GIVE HER ANOTHER CHANCE? AND I DID. MY STUPID SELF FORGAVE HER THEN AND GAVE HER ANOTHER CHANCE. THIS IS PURE STUPIDITY. You really cannot tell me that she is not doing this pattern intentionally. There is no way in hell that she did not do this intentionally. This adds more doubt to her confession about her being taken advantage of by her aunt. She could easily be lying. There is no possible excuse you could come up with after you see this consistent pattern, no excuse to convince me to forgive her. The word stupid is not even close enough to describe the severity of her actions. No matter what hard lifestyle she had, I should not have to be forced to put up with this kind of behavior from a woman who knows better. It is not fair that I am being a very loyal, caring man to her, ensuring that no woman could make any advances on me, only for her to be treating me like this.

    I offered to be a friend and not her boyfriend to help her heal and move on with life, but she rejected it saying that she wants me to continue being her boyfriend and she does not want to be just a friend as she still has feelings for me. My undying feelings for her makes me want to give her another chance, but remembering everything she has done makes me not want to. She got enough chances already. I need to have some self respect. What do you think? Should I give her another chance? I always believed that everyone deserves another chance, and as someone who knows the value of a second chance, I am tempted to give it to her, but this experience has completely changed my mind.

    Paradoxy

    #428909
    anita
    Participant

    Dear ParadoxMusic:

    You are welcome and thank you for expressing your appreciation!

    Knowing how humans are, I understood that in each relationship, she probably assumed that her partner then would be the person she would spend the rest of her life with“- here is my edited suggestion to this sentence (a suggestion for you to consider, or not): knowing how I am (and how my father is, and some other people), I understood that B is also like I am, and that she assumed what I assume.

    But she has had this aunt/ family in her life who instilled some other assumptions, such as using sex as a tool, disrespecting one own’s body, that it’s okay for an aunt to prostitute her niece.

    I think it’s quite disrespectful that she spent a day with her ex partially nude right after we broke up. Anita, how would you feel if you and your partner broke up and the next day he went right back to his ex?… I don’t think this kind of behavior is a young people issue cause even adults way older than me have had these kinds of experiences with their partner“- I’d say, (1) yes, it is disrespectful, (2) youth has something to do with it: statistically, young people are more impulsive than older people, not considering the consequences of their actions and how their actions will affect others, (3)  yes, I totally understand your hurt and anger as a result of her actions, and (4) in the case of your girlfriend, the incident you described where a man gave her aunt money so to have sex with her niece, and how it transpired, with her vomiting, this story is blood chilling and extremely disturbing, and there is no reason for me to believe it was the only incident of prostitution that took place, orchestrated by her aunt, directly or indirectly.

    This (item 4) means that there is a BIGGER picture here that you need to see: she needs psychological- emotional help, if she is open to it, help by a professional/ community agency that helps young women in her situation and background.

    What do you think? Should I give her another chance? I always believed that everyone deserves another chance, and as someone who knows the value of a second chance, I am tempted to give it to her, but this experience has completely changed my mind.“- I absolutely think that you should not give her another chance as a girlfriend. I strongly believe that you having sex with her again would be the wrong thing to do.. for you, but also for her.

    It is very hard for me to ignore the possibility that she intentionally chose to go along with her aunt’s plan as a rebound after our break up“- by the time she went along with her aunt’s plan, she had serious mental health issues, including a severe disrespect for her own body/ her own person. Question is: can she heal from the evil that was done to her, or will she perpetrate this evil to others (maybe to her own daughter, if she has one).

    It goes back to what I stated in the previous paragraph: how would you feel if your partner slept with another person right after you break up with them? I believe that is utter disrespect… If she was able to easily move on to the next man, I think it is reasonable to believe that she never loved me properly“- you mention respect and love. Back to the incident (which again, I have no reason to believe it to be the only one of its kind): a man who paid money to her aunt so to have sex with her niece, did what he did and she vomited (please do not repeat that description, it’s too disturbing to read yet again), where is the respect there? Did the aunt respect B when she arranged for that transaction? Did the sexual predator, a predator of girls/ women: did he respect B?

    How about love, where was the love? You expect respect and love from a young woman who was shown the opposite of love and respect. I am not saying that you should accept the absence of love and respect from B, or from anyone else. What I am saying is that you should no longer consider resuming a sexual relationship with her, and that she gets the help she needs, professional/ community help that does not involve a sexual transaction.

    Ma’am, this is a 22 year old woman. She is a full grown adult“- yes, physically, she is a full grown adult, an so are you.

    Yes you stated that she probably felt indebted to her aunt for taking care of her. But do you think her loyalty to her aunt is more important than her loyalty to her own future life partner“- her future life partner is not yet known, and there may not be one. She doesn’t yet have a life partner, but she’s had a aunt in her life for two decades.

    ” (I)… who has PROVEN IT IN HIS ACTIONS THAT EVERYTHING HE DID FOR HER WAS OUT OF THE PURE LOVE THAT HE HAD FOR HER?… A MAN OF GOD“- if you choose to love her still, make your love indeed pure and godly (the gentle version, not the angry/vengeful version of god): no sex with her.

    How can any husband, father, or brother bear the pain of knowing that their wife, daughter or sister was sold off by a relative for sex work?“- sex work that wouldn’t take place if there were no husbands, fathers, and brothers who pay for sex, many who are sexual predators. Your anger is directed at the women.. not at the men?

    She lied to me for a year anita. She could be lying about some of the specifics too, I would never know… How can I bear this pain? How can I ever get over this?… there was another incident with another man, which I forgot to mention earlier. There was another man… Can you see what is happening anita? It’s literally a pattern.. You really cannot tell me that she is not doing this pattern intentionally. There is no way in hell that she did not do this intentionally“- she could be lying, could be manipulating.. likely, as is most often the case, she started a victim, 100% victim, and over the years of disrespect and abuse, turns perpetrator, to one extent or another, and she is still a combination of both. It’s up to each one of us to heal best we can from the first, and do no harm to others.

    I understand your anger, but I can’t side with you in saying that B is the Bad One, and you are the Good One. The two of you (true to myself as well), share both, or three things, using the title of a movie, “the good, the bad, and the ugly“.

    You want her to change.. but can you change yourself: to endure your pain and anger, and commit to be part of the solution, not part of the problem, that is, to commit yourself to love, not to hate?

    No matter what hard lifestyle she had, I should not have to be forced to put up with this kind of behavior from a woman who knows better. It is not fair that I am being a very loyal, caring man to her“- you see yourself as a very loyal, caring man to her, but you are also a very angry man, angry at her.  You shouldn’t try and be in a loving, romantic and sexual relationship with a woman you hate.

    “EVERY TIME WE BROKE UP, SHE WENT TO GO ENTERTAIN ANOTHER MAN. LIKE HOW COULD I BE SO STUPID TO GIVE HER ANOTHER CHANCE? AND I DID… THIS IS PURE STUPIDITY… Should I give her another chance?“- what do you think?

    anita

    #428920
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I think you’ve got every right to be upset with your girlfriend’s behavior, because this is the gist of it (in your own words):

    EVERY TIME WE BROKE UP, SHE WENT TO GO ENTERTAIN ANOTHER MAN.

    Indeed, she wasn’t able to be without a man for even a short while, but immediately sought the company of her ex-boyfriend, for example.

    Not only that, but she also took him in as her roommate and never told you about it. This was happening while the two of you were dating. It is definitely not okay and not fair to you to have her ex-boyfriend as roommate, even if they didn’t have any sexual encounters (which they did, as soon as you two broke up). Moreover, the guy was still interested in her and jealous of you (The guy was jealous that she was able to move on).

    So this whole arrangement was unfair to you, it was inappropriate, and she lied about it. When later confronted about it, she gaslighted you that it wasn’t necessary for you to know (Her excuse was that it was unnecessary for me to know).

    Another example is when a classmate of yours was making advances towards her, and she refused to tell him that the two of you were dating:

    I told her to let him know that we were dating but she said it was unnecessary.

    And then as soon as you two broke up (during one of your many breakups), she started sexting with him.

    It appears to me that she cannot stay away from men’s advances and men’s attention. This could be a result of her being sexually abused and used for prostitution since her youth. In other words, it could be the result of trauma.

    For example, if it was expected from her to have sex with men and if she received love from her aunt (her primary caregiver) only if she obeyed, it is possible that she only feels worthy if she is sexually available to men. Being with men maybe also gives her a sense of security. I don’t want to speculate, but the type of behavior she exhibits could easily be the result of trauma.

    However, it doesn’t mean you need to tolerate it, because it certainly isn’t appropriate, it’s very hurtful towards you, and it cannot be a basis for a healthy relationship.

    So when you say:

    I should not have to be forced to put up with this kind of behavior from a woman who knows better

    You indeed shouldn’t force yourself (nor be forced by her) to put up with her behavior. As for her knowing better, that’s questionable, because even if she rationally knows better, she can’t do better – because she is still playing out her trauma. Nevertheless, that’s not an excuse to stay with her, because her behavior is clearly abusive.

     

    I would like to address what you said about her positive qualities, which as you said, make you hesitant and doubting whether you should give her another chance.

    I cannot be blind to all the good things about her. The way she took care of me was on par with my own mother. Cooking for me, getting me facial hygiene products, taking care of my hair, giving me massages and etc.

    always taking care of me, cooking meals for me, ensuring I was always healthy, and etc. I felt as if she was loving me like how a proper wife should and I very much appreciated it because women do not always do that level of caring for their partner.

    This sounds like she was taking good care of your physical needs (cooking for you, making sure you eat healthy, giving you massages etc). She seems to have given you a lot of physical nurturance.

    However, she wasn’t treating you well emotionally. She was hurting you, hiding her encounters with other men and telling you it’s okay that you don’t know about it. Basically gaslighting you.

    She is the first person to have ever loved me. Not even my own parents cared for me the way she did. I’ve never been able to make any proper friends. She was the only person who treated me like I meant something,

    She did care for your physical needs, and she always wants to get back together after you break up. In that sense, she is interested in you, she doesn’t want to lose you. You clearly are an important person in her life.

    But the problem is that she is interested in other men too. You said she even developed feelings for the married guy who was paying her for sex. This could be a sign of trauma and as you said, of Stockholm syndrome even. But in practice, what it means is that right now, she isn’t able to be faithful. She isn’t able to reject other men’s advances. And that’s why she is inevitably going to cause you pain.

    You said many times that her behavior is “stupid”. Well, every addiction is stupid. Every self-destructive behavior that stems from trauma – is stupid. I think that her behavior with men is akin to addiction – it is self-destructive, but it seems that at the moment she cannot control it.

    If she wants healing, she would need to accept that she has a problem and then spend some time in therapy. But if she is blaming you for her behavior and telling you it’s not a big deal that she has secret liaisons with other men, and shutting you down when you want to talk about it (blaming me for her behavior and shutting me down every time I asked her listen to me) – then she is far from accepting that she needs therapy. She is fooling both you and herself.

    She promised to help me heal but I do not think so.

    She should focus on her own healing. She should admit she has a problem and seek therapy (I don’t know how open she is to therapy?). And you should step away from the relationship and stop exposing yourself to further abuse.

    I wish you healing and hope to talk to you some more…

     

    #428922
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    I believe you may have misunderstood certain things about the matter.

    I said “Knowing how humans are” because I have been studying psychology especially regarding relationships for the past three years as part of my medical degree, and all evidences and shared experiences from others indicate that most of them who valued Christian morals only gave in to the idea of sex due to their innocent belief that their current partner would be their last. But you are right, I believed that too, and now here I am.

    You have misunderstood B’s history. Most of her life was under her own parents, mainly her mother and she only spent one or two years with her aunt, and that too at the age where she is past the point of childish innocence. Her mother abused her due to being the only one who looked like her father, who had left the toxic relationship cause of how horrible the mother was. Despite coming back for her multiple times, the father was unable to get her to come live with him. Despite this, B did not grow up in a lifestyle where taking advantage of men is looked up on. Her father is a chemistry professor and has made sure to install good values in her during the times that she stayed with him. As she became a teenager(like around 15-17), she had to decide to stay with her aunt or her father, for which she chose her aunt. In the time that she spent with her aunt, she was not groomed to be used as a sex worker. The only behavior that her aunt revealed is her own decision to marry men to gain citizenship, wealth etc. Other than that, she was treated very well in the family, after which she came back to living with her father in 2020, studied law for a year or two, and she was an excellent chemistry student at her college. After an altercation with her father, she started working in a company and she maintained her relationship with her aunt. That is when she started dating Al who introduced her to all the sexual things. She had good influence from her family members during this time. Even to the point where one of her aunts (Aunt 2) wanted her to become a nun. So clearly the only problem then was her immaturity. She was already out of her abusive home, continued her education and everything was normal except for the relationship. Al told her that he was leaving her cause of her restrictions, to which she decided to let go of the restrictions and started having sex with him, staying at his home during week days and living at her Aunt 2’s place on the weekends. Then Aunt 1 (the problematic one) found out about her relationship and took it upon herself to be a good mother and talked to the man and realized that Al is a irresponsible man who did not want to take on B’s responsibilities. She told B to leave Al because she knew Al was not a good man but B, on her own accord, rejected her aunt and decided to stay with him. After which, she stopped talking to aunt 1 for a year.

    She had saved up money to start studying at the college where we met, and saved up enough money to rent her own place too, and he was planning to move closer too. But then Al confessed to cheating on her. Then they broke up, after which, she met T. T was a nice guy at first but she believes that he only liked her because he thought she had money. But to her, T was just a rebound for her ex, because “it felt good to have someone to talk to after having your heart broken” (literally quoting her). She confessed that she still had feelings for her ex, and obviously T was hurt. Then T had to leave for some training, at which time, Al returned for a second chance. And still having feelings for him, B decided to give him a second chance. Obviously T was hurt, but Al left her anyway because she was emotionally fighting between wanting both men. So T and B got back together, but that was short lived because T was hiding another woman who he was sleeping with. Then she met me.

    Her aunt and she started talking when she started college again. That was almost the same time that we met. She was desperate to talk to her and she missed her. She told her that there was a man who was looking for a young girl for sex. But the aunt told her that she gave her sister’s number to the man instead. But she already had a child so the man wanted B instead. B did not question anything. Aunt 2 started sending the money, which B told me and I warned her that this was not normal. Her job was becoming more of a pain because her manager wanted to sleep with her too. But due to the new source of income, she did not give in. And in December she went to the aunt, slept with the man, returned and got fired from her job.

    “But she has had this aunt/ family in her life who instilled some other assumptions, such as using sex as a tool, disrespecting one own’s body, that it’s okay for an aunt to prostitute her niece.Basically, I told you her history to show that her aunt did not get enough time to install the assumption that sex should be used as a tool, and about disrespecting her own body nor that its okay for her aunt to prostitute her niece. In fact her own aunt had been the one protecting her from being taken advantage of by men, but that effect was still not strong enough for her to grow an attachment to her aunt in that manner.

    “Statistically, young people are more impulsive” Yes you are right. That is exactly what happened here. Her own immaturity caused her to be in this position.

    “There is no reason for me to believe it was the only incident of prostitution that took place” Based on the history she has told me, there was no room for more actual prostitution to have occurred, so we have to assume that this was the first time she was put in that state, other than being used for sex by Al.

    “She needs psychological- emotional help” Yes, I already considered this and it is obvious that she was suffering from the trauma. But now that trauma is also mine. How can I help to heal her when her own actions created my own trauma? How can I help remove the splinter in her eye when I have a log in my own, which she technically put? But despite that, I put aside my own suffering, and tried to help her as much as I could. For the last 3 months, I shut down my own pain and loved her as much as I could, but the severity of the issue was eating me from the inside. I have already seen both sides of the situation. I have seen the bigger picture, but that is not going to change the fact that this all happened cause of her own poor decision making. If she had just trusted me, her aunt would not have had the opportunity to take advantage of her.

    B is not the type of person to let her own suffering lead her away from the right path. She was abused by her mother, so she knows pain and for that exact reason, she vowed to become a better woman than her mother. Her mental health issues are actually the lack of maturity, and not having people to guide her properly.

    “A man who paid money to her aunt so to have sex with her niece… where is the respect there? Did the aunt respect B when she arranged for that transaction? Did the sexual predator… did he respect B? How about love, where was the love? You expect respect and love from a woman who was shown the opposite of love and respect”  Do not misunderstand, I have already considered her situation in this matter. It is true that her aunt nor the man respected her. But what did I do to deserve this? I had been the only one guiding her, helping her with her decision making, loving her properly, supporting her in building a good future, always remaining by her side despite the issues she faced, respecting her, teaching her the value of her own body. I had been the one doing all of this. So why did I deserve to be betrayed in this manner when all I have been doing was to help her heal from all her past relationships and abuse?  You think I did not recognize her pain? Do you really think that I am so narrow minded that I would only think of my pain and not hers?

    “How about love, where was the love? You expect respect and love from a young woman who was shown the opposite of love and respect” Yes she did not receive respect and love from her family, but I gave that to her. I gave her real love. I gave her real respect. Was my love and respect not good enough for her to give love and respect to me? I offered to continue to be her friend, but now she is asking for couples counseling to deal with the matter, which I have decided to go along with, and she has made it clear that she wants to continue having sex, which I have already rejected. I have already sworn that I would not continue until after marriage.

    “Her future life partner is not yet known, and there may not be one. She doesn’t yet have a life partner, but she’s had a aunt in her life for two decades.” False. Though we are a young ‘immature’ couple, we had already started making plans to ensure that we would get married and we would be the life partner for each other. Unfortunately this happened before the plan could be finalized. And she only had a connection with her aunt for 3-4 years, and even then, the influence was far too weak because she did not live with her aunt for long nor maintained communication long enough for the aunt to influence her drastically.

    “Your anger is directed at the women.. not at the men?” Again False, my anger is directed to the persons who caused this entire situation: B, Aunt 2, and the man. My first instinctive response was to go after the man, which B discouraged, but then I redirected my anger to the aunt, who should be held accountable for being the main cause of the situation. I even went as far as tracking down her aunt, her job, her children (especially her daughter) before I changed my mind cause of how pointless it is. The aunt’s children does not need to suffer for the things the aunt did. But even then it would be pointless as no amount of pain or suffering would knock sense into a woman like that. But despite that, I cannot ignore B’s part in all of this. She chose to hide and lie about the matter. She chose to make all the wrong decisions. She had all the opportunities to get herself out of the situation, which she told me she was well aware of, yet she still chose to go along with it. That is not something I can forgive and forget.

    You are right about some men being sexual predators, but I was specifically referring to the matter at hand in my example.

    Please tell me why you disagree with B being the bad one and I being the good one? Because you think I do not see the bigger picture? Because you think I do not see her suffering? Was I not understanding enough? I am not trying to paint B as a bad woman, as I keep reminding you that she is actually a good wife over all but that does not change how foolish she was in putting herself in that situation INTENTIONALLY, when I was constantly trying to pull her back from falling into these traps? Am I not in the right when she was the one who rejected my advice? I may have flaws but am I not in the right regarding this specific matter? I am the one who removed sex from the equation after understanding the severity of the issue. I am the one who had been trying to help her heal while my own scars were fresh and open to infection. I only got to this state because that wound has become severely inflamed.

    “You want her to change.. but can you change yourself: to endure your pain and anger, and commit to be part of the solution, not part of the problem, that is, to commit yourself to love, not to hate?” DO YOU NOT GET IT? I AM THE ONE WHO IS STILL IN LOVE WITH HER DESPITE EVERYTHING THAT SHE HAS DONE. I AM HERE RANTING ALL THIS BECAUSE I AM SEARCHING FOR AN EXCUSE, A LOGICAL REASON MY MIND CAN ACCEPT, TO FORGIVE HER AND TAKE HER BACK. I AM THE ONE WHO TRIED CHANGING FOR HER. I AM THE ONE WHO ENDURED THE PAIN AND ANGER UNTIL IT BECAME UNBEARABLE. I AM THE ONE WHO WAS COMMITTED TO HELPING HER HEAL BEFORE MY OWN PAIN AND SUFFERING BECAME TOO MUCH TO HANDLE EVEN FOR ME. I ONLY LEFT HER AFTER SHE REPEATED THE SAME STUPID BEHAVIOR AGAIN. SHE ENTERTAINED ANOTHER MAN, FULLY AWARE THAT I HATED IT. A RELATIONSHIP WOULD NOT LAST IF ONLY ONE PERSON IS WILLING TO CHANGE. I WAS WILLING TO CHANGE FROM THE VERY START. I WAS WILLING TO TOLERATE THIS BEHAVIOR FROM THE VERY START BEFORE I REALIZED THAT TOLERATING IT IS NOT GOOD AT ALL.

    Its stupid because she slept with the man after we broke up cause of my parents’ belief that she would sleep with another man. We literally broke up cause of the fear of her cheating and that is exactly what she did after we broke up.

    “You see yourself as a very loyal, caring man to her, but you are also a very angry man, angry at her.  You shouldn’t try and be in a loving, romantic and sexual relationship with a woman you hate.” Yes I am angry. I can be a very loyal, caring man while also being angry, because my anger is justified. I do not hate her. I hate the things she did. I hate her stupidity. I hate being taken advantage of. I hate that my loyalty and care is rewarded with pain. I hate the feeling of helplessness. I hate knowing that all of this could have been prevented if she had just told me the truth. I hate knowing that this could have been avoided if she had taken the many opportunities she had to not sleep with that man. What I feel is disgust. Disgust knowing that the person in front of me willingly put herself in the situation to be used by that man. She was already aware of what was going to happen DAYS BEFORE it happened. She had time to prepare. Time to think. Time to decide. Yet she still chose wrong.

    Like I said, talking to you has organized my thoughts and I am trying to ensure this break up is permanent and I am still offering to be her friend, but she wants me to go to counseling with her and give her another chance.

    Paradoxy

    #428923
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    The ex is actually a housemate, as they are not sharing rooms but sharing the house. Besides, I have no choice but to forgive that they are living together because it is not their fault that they are college students who cannot afford to get their own place, but I cannot forgive the fact that she did not let me know who he actually was even though she made me aware of the existence of a male housemate. And regarding the sexual encounter, it is just a possibility as they were both half nude but I can never be certain. I can only wonder what could have happened. So should I give her the benefit of doubt?

    “It appears to me that she cannot stay away from men’s advances and men’s attention. This could be a result of her being sexually abused and used for prostitution since her youth. In other words, it could be the result of trauma.” She was not sexually abused and used for prostitution since her youth. She was only put in that state once. She was physically abused by her mother, but other than that she had a normal life. Top of the class, most known romantic couple in high school, church choir girl, etc. Even in the case of her first boyfriend, she broke up with him because she could not afford to buy him a birthday present. That is the level of immaturity that I am dealing with. Her first boyfriend treated her very well: protecting her from her mother’s abuse, getting a phone for her to call him whenever necessary, etc. The neglect from her parents may have affected her, but she was already in the process of healing from those experiences. In fact, I am the only person who took on the role of helping her heal. Not her father, not her aunt, not her cousin or ex boyfriends. It was me. I showed her what it meant to be properly loved. I showed her what it feels like to be respected. Yet she rejected me and followed her stupid aunt.

    Her aunt was not her primary caregiver. In fact their relationship was not even that strong. She only lived with her aunt for a year or two, and she did not even maintain contact with her for an entire year until she needed her again. So there is no evidence to show that she had no choice but to obey the aunt. She had a job, supported herself, saved money to go to college herself without asking for help from anyone etc. Even outside of that, she had support from me and her father, and we both truly cared for her. So there is no way that she could have been manipulated into obeying her aunt. She reads her bible, tries to follow the rules in the bible, knows that a wife belongs to her husband and the husband belongs to the wife yet she still managed to put herself in this situation. Like there is no logical explanation for her action and it’s driving me crazy.

    “Sounds like she was taking good care of your physical needs” False, she tried her best with my emotional needs as well, I just didn’t think of listing them which is why I said etc. She tries to motivate me whenever the stress of medicine gets to me. She even supported my music development, computer engineering projects etc. She always tried to ensure that I was emotionally and mentally well generally, but it is just when it’s regarding other men and simple misunderstandings where the issue rises.  I guess some people are just too stupid/blind regarding certain things. Though she tried her best, her best is not good enough. She refuses to listen to me, accept when she is wrong, shuts me down, always misunderstands things despite how many times I break down the information for her to process better. It is just amazing how such a woman can be the most wonderful wife and still be doing foolishness.

    “She isn’t able to reject other men’s advances.” That is the funny part. She does reject other men’s advances. This woman is actually very beautiful and very sexually attractive to many men. I have seen first hand how so many men are attracted to her and she has rejected countless advances from men already. So she is actually capable of being faithful. She has people from modeling agencies, to popular music artists, to company ceos interested in her and she has rejected all of their advances. So I am just confused as to how this situation even happened. My only logical explanation is just plain stupidity.

    “If she is blaming you for her behavior and telling you it’s not a big deal that she has secret liaisons with other men, and shutting you down when you want to talk about it… then she is far from accepting that she needs therapy” No she stopped making the excuse that it is not a big deal, but she continues to do things such as posting pictures of herself in very revealing bikini outfits (which is normal since a lot of women does it despite being told not to by their partner but I am not going to tolerate it). And she shuts me down when she is busy accusing me based on her misunderstanding of various situations and she just overthinks so much that she is not able to accept the correct understanding of certain things despite me trying to break down the facts to make it easier for her to understand. Eventually she understands but the amount of pressure I have to put to force her to listen is really high. I have to figuratively shut her mouth with tape to make her listen, that is the level the situation has become.

    I am trying to step away from the relationship right now, but I still have lingering feelings for her. Besides that, I know that if I do not protect her, her stupid behind is going to get herself in trouble again and I do not wish to wake up tomorrow to learn that she was raped and murdered. And I also have to think about what she may have felt when she was doing all of these things. Technically, we were broken up when she decided to sleep with other man. So does that technicality give grounds for forgiving her? Should I put into consideration the fact that maybe the break up was so painful for her that she needed some form of sexual release to cope with the pain? We have agreed to try some couple’s counseling but I do not think that will work. I appreciate your advice though.

    Paradoxy

     

     

    #428929
    Tee
    Participant

    Hey Paradoxy,

    thank you for your reply.

    It does paint a different picture – so you’re saying that she wasn’t exposed to sexual exploitation as a child/youth. That she wasn’t groomed to become a sex worker. Although her Aunt1, at whose place she stayed for a few years, wasn’t against marrying a man to get citizenship and wealth:

    In the time that she spent with her aunt, she was not groomed to be used as a sex worker. The only behavior that her aunt revealed is her own decision to marry men to gain citizenship, wealth etc.

    So did her aunt get married to a rich guy?

    Aunt1 wasn’t happy about B’s relationship with Al. She didn’t like Al and tried to convince B to leave him. But B refused and stopped speaking to her aunt for about a year:

    Then Aunt 1 (the problematic one) found out about her relationship and took it upon herself to be a good mother and talked to the man and realized that Al is a irresponsible man who did not want to take on B’s responsibilities. She told B to leave Al because she knew Al was not a good man but B, on her own accord, rejected her aunt and decided to stay with him. After which, she stopped talking to aunt 1 for a year.

    I wonder what were B’s responsibilities that Al didn’t want to take on himself?

    The other aunt (Aunt2) at some point wanted B to become a nun:

    She had good influence from her family members during this time. Even to the point where one of her aunts (Aunt 2) wanted her to become a nun.

    But when B started sleeping with Al, Aunt2 seems to have accepted it. She let her stay at her place during the weekends, while on weekdays she stayed at Al:

    Al told her that he was leaving her cause of her restrictions, to which she decided to let go of the restrictions and started having sex with him, staying at his home during week days and living at her Aunt 2’s place on the weekends.

    It also seems B was conflicted about starting a sexual relationship with Al, but he threatened to leave her, so she agreed.

    About a year later, around the time B was starting college, B and Aunt1 resumed their relationship:

    Her aunt and she started talking when she started college again. That was almost the same time that we met. She was desperate to talk to her and she missed her.

    she did not even maintain contact with her for an entire year until she needed her again.

    Was she desperate to talk to her aunt because around that time, she found out that Al was cheating on her? (She had saved up money to start studying at the college where we met, and saved up enough money to rent her own place too, and he was planning to move closer too. But then Al confessed to cheating on her. Then they broke up, after which, she met T.)

    And then, in that moment of fragility, her aunt told her about the married man looking for a young girl for sex? She first gave him her sister’s number, but the guy didn’t want a bit older woman, who already gave birth, so she (Aunt2) suggested B. And B accepted it:

    She told her that there was a man who was looking for a young girl for sex. But the aunt told her that she gave her sister’s number to the man instead. But she already had a child so the man wanted B instead. B did not question anything. Aunt 2 started sending the money.

    I mean… that’s pretty incredible! First, the fact that the man was inquiring at her aunt about the sex job – is quite telling. And then Aunt1 proceeding to suggest her sister (Aunt2) for the job… is also incredible. And then the sister, not meeting the man’s requirements, proceeded to enlist B.

    OMG. The story is quite appalling… but it also shows that her aunts are not some good, caring women who instilled positive values in B, as you said (She had good influence from her family members during this time.) They are in fact immoral women who sought to prostitute their own niece for money.

    Since B agreed (and wasn’t at all shocked by the proposition), it tells me that this wasn’t strange for her at all (provided that it all happened, of course. Provided that she didn’t invent the whole story about prostitution). But if it did happen, then she must have been conditioned and groomed into accepting this as something quite normal.

    Women don’t go prostitute themselves because they are “stupid”. I am sure she didn’t either. She did it because of either external pressure and expectation (coming from her aunts), or an inner compulsion, perhaps feeling that she is dirty, and then acting it out.

    Sometimes people behave in horrible ways because they believe they are bad, they are filthy and rotten inside. If she believes something like that about herself, this can be why she did it.

     

    #428932
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy:

    How interestingly unique you are, ParadoxMusic, or Paradoxy as you close your posts with, and how fitting the screen name you chose for yourself:

    urban dictionary. com: “Paradoxy= the state of being paradoxical. In theological terms, it’s the act of believing in something you know to be completely untrue, e.g. people who follow the norms of a religion, believing that it will make them more worthy in the eyes of a god(s) that they don’t believe actually exists”.

    This is the paradoxy as I see it (I may be wrong, of course, but this is my best understanding at this point): on one hand, you deeply believe in monogamy and sex after marriage, and you believe that B is wife material (“she was actually a very good, loyal, loving, caring woman that any man would desire. She displayed all the characteristics that I was looking for in a good wife“), but alas, the paradox: you described an alarmingly promiscuous woman during the relationship with you, a relationship of an on-and-off pattern.

    You love her, but alas, the paradox: you also love to hate her, evident in the many upper case typing.

    Please pay attention to my point here: of course, the promiscuous behavior you described is appalling, it is appalling to me, so I understand you being hurt and ANGRY. But what I am referring to when I say that you love to hate her, is that you found in her someone into which to project your hate for women in general, a hate that pre-existed you meeting B. So, as I see it (and again, I may be wrong), in a sick way, she is a compatible partner for you: her promiscuity gives you the opportunity to express, or process in-a-way, your pre-existing hate.

    Next, I will quote your writings during our 2020 communication. (I am the one selectively adding the boldface feature to the quotes):

    March 3-4, 2020: ” I loved someone, which also soothed the pain. And even better: the pain from getting rejected distracted me from the pain that I was already feeling. But eventually both feelings merged to create even stronger ‘Dark Energy‘… I like the ‘Dark Energy’ that I get when I get insulted by others“.

    March 7, 2020 (the italicized is a question I asked you, to which you responded): “Technically I don’t experience pleasure when people insult me. I experience pain, which I happen to like the more I feel it. It is changing me negatively; I laugh when I see someone die in movies (especially gory deaths) while everyone else is horrified or sad. But I still don’t care… What was the pain you were already feeling? This is the pain that I was talking about in the entire topic; the pain caused from being alone, being insulted by family and etc.”

    March 8, 2020: “I laugh at gory deaths cause I think it’s funny how the person dies (For example: In the movie Final Destination 2, I laughed when I saw a girl being shot to death through the head with a nail gun by accident). You see, with this attitude I’m never going to make friends so I need help figuring out another way I could keep this personality hidden or change it so others are not creeped out”.

    March 23- 25, 2020: “I don’t want to fall in love ever again. I feel that love is annoying. It can be distracting, painful and sometimes stupid and sometimes make your personality change. I grew a little bit aggressive and desperate when I realized the girl I like would say no… I wish to stop loving. If I love again, I feel like more like an idiot and a fool.”

    March 20,  2024: “they (your parents) don’t trust women in general because they have seen many ruined relationships with cheating and gold diggers and etc.”

    As to the pain you mentioned on March 7 2020 (“the pain caused from being alone, being insulted by family and etc.”, relevant quotes: “There happened to be an incident where my neighbor threatened my parents that they would call social services since they saw how I was being treated and my parents took out their anger on me” (March 3, 2020), “Calling social services on my parents is a very difficult thing for me to do since I love and care for my parents even if they mistreat me” (March 4, 2020), “I’ve never been cared for by another person before, including my parents and my sister” (March 13, 2020), “she (B) is the first person to have ever loved me. Not even my own parents cared for me the way she did… She was the only person who treated me like I meant something” (March 20, 2024).

    Putting all the above quoted information together, seems to me that, very sadly, growing up, you were severely abused by your parents: they insulted you, rejected and isolated you, and they punished you so severely, that a neighbor took the risk of threatening them with calling social services. In addition to their abuse, they instilled in you the core belief that women are bad, dishonest people who are not to be trusted, and this is why you asked B early on if she was a gold digger, etc. (“they don’t trust women in general because they have seen many ruined relationships with cheating and gold diggers and etc.. I told her (B) about my parents’ views and asked her if she was a gold digger or if she was manipulating me because the stories my parents were telling me started to scare me and I was worried”, March 20, 2024).

    Seems to me, that the abuse by your parents created the “dark energy” you referred to, and that hate (persistent, intense anger) is big part of this dark energy. The reason you enjoyed watching people dying gory, violent deaths in movies (you mentioned a scene involving a woman dying violently) is because of the pleasure involved in revenge, revenge by proxy, in this case.

    Your anger is not directed at the people who abused you (“I love and care for my parents even if they mistreat me“, March 4, 2020), but at.. other people: “my anger is directed to the persons who caused this entire situation: B, Aunt 2, and the man. My first instinctive response was to go after the man, which B discouraged, but then I redirected my anger to the aunt” (March 23, 2024).

    And mostly, your anger is directed at B (in the following, you are the one adding the boldface feature: ” Ma’am, this is a 22 year old woman. She is a full grown adult… do you think her loyalty to her aunt is more important than her loyalty to her own future life partner who has PROVEN IT IN HIS ACTIONS THAT EVERYTHING HE DID FOR HER WAS OUT OF THE PURE LOVE THAT HE HAD FOR HER? A LIFE PARTNER WHO HAD PROVEN COUNTLESS TIMES THAT HE IS A MAN OF GOD AND ONLY MAKES WISE DECISIONS THAT ONLY BENEFITS HER” (March 21, 2024)

    The anger as I see it in the above quote is a twist on your anger toward your parents, who are religious, if I understand correctly. You are saying to them- by proxy of B- DON’T YOU SEE THAT ALL I DID WAS LOVE YOU? ISN’T MY PURE LOVE FOR YOU EVIDENT IN MY ACTIONS, ACTIONS I TOOK TO BENEFIT YOU??!!!

    As I said before, you are a very intelligent young man and you have a lot of fighting energy within you. I wish that you redirect your anger and fighting spirit to where and how it can benefit you and others (friends, future girlfriend/ wife).

    anita

     

    #428942
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Yes she was not exposed to sexual exploitation as a child/youth. She did admit that her aunt wanted her to marry an old man to get citizenship to make it easier to pay the bill and etc but other than that there was no other manipulation that I am aware of.

    “So did her aunt get married to a rich guy?” Yes, the aunt married 3 different successful men, all of whom are coincidentally dead (weird but no suspicious activity has been noticed as they all died in different ways such as old age, car accident etc).

    “I wonder what were B’s responsibilities that Al didn’t want to take on himself?” The responsibilities that Al didn’t want to take on himself were things such as financial responsibilities and her education and home; to take care of her essentially.

    “It also seems B was conflicted about starting a sexual relationship with Al, but he threatened to leave her, so she agreed.” Yes that is also correct. Al was her first sexual partner who introduced her to foreplay and the actual sex. (He had slept with a lot of woman too, body count probably in the 20s)

    “Was she desperate to talk to her aunt because around that time, she found out that Al was cheating on her?” I think she just did not have anyone actively caring for her at the time so she just wanted someone to talk to, but Al’s cheating probably played a factor but based on my understanding, the Aunt and B only resumed their relationship when starting college, and the breakup and stuff technically occurred few months before college (within 2 months).

    “And then, in that moment of fragility, her aunt told her about the married man looking for a young girl for sex?” No, the aunt told her about the married man when B and I started dating. So she was already in a healthy relationship when she learnt about the married man. And when the suggestion was made, she already told me that her aunt wanted her to do it and we had already discussed how wrong that was and it was obvious that I did not want her to do it and she had agreed. Like the situation was so bizarre that I just pushed it off labelling the aunt as just some crazy lady and nothing more. I had no idea that B would be stupid enough to go along with her aunt when it is so obvious that I did not want her to do it.

    “It also shows that her aunts are not some good, caring women who instilled positive values in B”  My logical explanation is that the aunt suffered in her life, cause her sister (B’s mom) was the reason she did not get to go to college and etc. So she basically used men to climb up the ladder. In a way, life was cruel to her and so she just adopted the belief that the only way to survive is to use men for an advantage, and she could not see any other way to survive and tried to install the same belief in B, but I was there to stop the foolishness but i guess my efforts were not good enough.

    “(She had good influence from her family members during this time.) They are in fact immoral women who sought to prostitute their own niece for money.” No only Aunt 1 tried to do that. Everyone else, her father, aunt 2, etc all showed love to B, even her own mother did not continue to harm B. Only Aunt 1 had the twisted morals to ‘secure B’s future’ by helping her make money by giving her body to men. Aunt 1 was not even trying to take advantage of the money or anything. Her aim was to actually help B secure a future, but the method is one of the cruelest things I have ever seen. A 40 something year old woman who has 3 children, one of whom is a daughter almost the same age as B was able to do this? Clearly nobody has knocked some sense into her head.

    “Since B agreed…it tells me that this wasn’t strange for her at all” THATS THE THING! SHE DID NOT AGREE UNTIL SHE WENT TO VISIT HER AUNT AND WE BROKE UP. Even when her aunt was sending her $500 per month, she believed that the money was coming from the aunt, not the man. She only found out that it was from the man when she went to visit the aunt. We both agreed that the aunt was crazy when she suggested that B get married to an old man and when she mentioned the man at the beginning but I thought B had made it clear that she did not want to do it. Maybe B did reject the offer but her aunt still continued with the plan, I don’t know.

    This story is too detailed for B to have invented it, however she could be lying about certain details. B also told me that she was heart broken and in pain cause of the break up, saying she felt abandoned by me, which was why she was willing to go along with her aunt. But the stupid thing is that the very reason we broke up is because I told her about my parents’ belief that women these days will take advantage of men and cheat on them etc, which she found offensive. BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE ENDED UP DOING. SHE LITERALLY PROVED MY PARENTS RIGHT. Like how does that even work? Shouldn’t she be trying to prove my parents wrong? Make me regret breaking up with her? I broke up with her because she misunderstood what I was trying to say. Based on all the stories my parents told me, I started to fear that they may be right. So I went and asked her if she had an ulterior motive to dating me, cause she once told me that she and her bestie back then were planning to look around the Med Faculty for the future husband, and it just so happened that I am studying med. So I asked her and she felt offended. But when I tried to clarify the misunderstanding, she refused to listen to me and pissed me off to the point I decided that it is better to not be in a relationship with a woman who is keen on misunderstanding everything I say and does not want to listen to the man who has been very good to her.  And then she proved my parents right, and hid it from me.

    The only proper reason for her impaired judgement at that time is that the break up hurt her enough to just be her aunt’s puppet without resistance. So with that said, should I put this into consideration and give her another chance?

    Paradoxy

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