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Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality?

HomeForumsRelationshipsShould a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality?

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Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 116 total)
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  • #430217
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    My parents may have taken the short cut to make me an adult, but it has shaped me to be who I am now and I am quite satisfied with it to an extent. And other adults have shown approval in my maturity, even their own children who are much older than me behave worse than me. And I also advise other students at this college to make better decisions regarding women and etc. But I don’t know if it was worth it to become who I am now and I do not know if I have the right to be advising other people considering the situation I got myself in.

    It is too late to be Godwin-the-child, I have a med degree to finish and I am too old to be behaving like a child. I should be focusing on my future career and etc. Med is already a pain on my behind so I do not have the time nor energy to share to Godwin-the-child. I do have a lot to grow Anita and I will. Eventually I will get past this.

    Paradoxy.

    #430221
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I think my parents were neglecting my pain to let me grow into someone that is not affected by pain like this. As a result, though I feel pain in leaving B, I am able to live a much more normal life than I would have been.

    Are you really able to live a normal life, dear Paradoxy? You said the pain regarding B has been eating you up, destroying you, you couldn’t sleep for 3 months, you “have been going through a depressed phase of just wanting the pain to end, whether it be through death or amnesia or something“. You said the pain has ruined you.

    So am I actually neglecting my pain or am I choosing to push it to the back of my mind cause I have other priorities like studying for my med exam and other things that should not be affected by my pain?

    Are you really not affected by pain, Paradoxy? Your words on wanting to go back in time and wipe out your own existence are an alarming proof that you are in a great amount of pain. Otherwise you wouldn’t believe such things about yourself. So it is clear to me that you are very much affected by your pain, and that suppressing it hasn’t helped you at all.

    We do not have time to feel pain. We have responsibilities and other issues to worry about.

    This sounds like something your father would say. I imagine he was telling you such things, and from an early childhood. The truth is that even adult men should be allowed to feel their pain, not to mention little children.

    So I’d think twice if I’d want to follow that “wisdom”. And the thing is that we cannot be really wise if we lack emotional intelligence. Pure logic (which your father used) isn’t enough.

    I hope we can talk some more on true wisdom: one that includes both intellect and emotions.

     

    #430232
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Yes I said that the pain has been eating me up and destroying me and that I couldn’t sleep etc. But all that happened while I was in relationship with her. I was in pain and suffering during the last three months because that was the period when I decided to give her one more chance. But now that she used up all her chances and made me break up with her, I am slowly healing. The pain did ruin me when I was in the relationship. But now that I am no longer in the relationship, I feel more normal. I do not have a constant reminder next to me, even though I do remind myself anyway. But I am able to focus on my work without the reminder interfering with my studies. While in relationship with her, her very existence next to me or something, even just looking at her was a constant reminder to my pain. But I am no longer with her. I do not have her next to me reminding me of what happened. Reminding me of the things she did. Therefore I am in the process of healing, and working on clearing my doubts on whether I should take her back or not. But all the evidence indicate that I am more at peace without her in my life, but that does not mean my caring side will stop caring about her. My brain has accepted that I am safer away from her even if my heart aches for her. And due to that level of self control, I am able to lead a much more normal life, with less pain and suffering. It’s just everything is dull now. But other than that, everything is normal.

    And yes I have the occasional thoughts of wanting to go back in time to erase myself, but the way I am now, even I am surprised with how well I am coping. Makes me wonder if I even loved at her at all, or if I just detached myself from those feelings completely. My thoughts contain pain but my actual emotions are normal. It’s like I literally feel nothing. No pain. No joy. No sorrow. No anger. Its like I am numb to all of it. Do you understand what I mean? It’s like the only time you feel something is when you actively think about the issue, whereas while I was in the relationship, I was constantly in pain, not being able to stop thinking those thoughts at all. But now I am numb, only being reminded of the pain instead of actively feeling the pain.

    “This sounds like something your father would say.” That is the funny part. My father never said that, I actually heard other men say it, but my father said it through his actions. Besides you should know it is a common stereotype that society built of us men. Men are these strong unwavering figures that never cry and women are these weak emotional creatures etc. (I am exaggerating a bit but you get the point). That is the type of view that society has normalized, to the point that women just choose to leave their man the moment they see them cry, cause they see them as weak and etc. Men should be allowed to feel pain, but it has been normalized that men shouldn’t feel pain. Men have to hide their tears, show a strong face whenever something bad happens. And unfortunately, I am a victim to that too. Besides, I do not plan to let anyone see me in my vulnerable state of misery that I am in right now. It is just better this way.

    “And the thing is that we cannot be really wise if we lack emotional intelligence.” That is very true, but sometimes, for certain decisions to be made, you need to cut out your emotions. I would not have been able to detach from B if I didn’t shut out my emotions. I would still be crawling back to her right now willing to give her another chance. Emotions such as fear and love and anger can end up causing you to make the wrong decisions, B being the prime example. Despite knowing that what she was doing was wrong, her fear and love for her aunt made her go along with her plan. Look at where it got her. So sometimes you have to put aside your emotions to make the right choices.

    Paradoxy

    #430245
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    And due to that level of self control, I am able to lead a much more normal life, with less pain and suffering. It’s just everything is dull now. .. It’s like I literally feel nothing. No pain. No joy. No sorrow. No anger. Its like I am numb to all of it. Do you understand what I mean?

    Yes, I do. I think that’s called dissociation. It’s a coping mechanism – how we cope with uncomfortable emotions. It can be okay for a short while, not to get overwhelmed. However it’s not good on the long run, because as you said, you feel numb. It’s like being a robot. You can function and complete your tasks, but you are not really living, because you’re not feeling anything.

    The problem is that we cannot selectively switch off just the unpleasant emotions while keeping the pleasant ones – we have to switch it all off. But if we do that, it makes us less alive and less fulfilled.

    My father never said that, I actually heard other men say it, but my father said it through his actions.

    Okay, so he did send you that message.

    Besides you should know it is a common stereotype that society built of us men. Men are these strong unwavering figures that never cry and women are these weak emotional creatures etc. (I am exaggerating a bit but you get the point).

    Hmm, maybe it was like that 50-70 years ago in the modern Western society, and still is in other societies and cultures around the world. I don’t know where you live, but in the West, this stereotype is no longer valid.

    But I did notice remnants of this stereotype in your writings. For example, you said this about B:

    She displayed all the characteristics that I was looking for in a good wife, excluding the stupid things that most woman do, like overthinking and not listening etc, which I did not mind cause I knew it was normal for women.

    This is a negative bias towards women: that women do stupid things, and that it’s normal for them. That’s an attitude that you probably picked up from your father, and basically, it’s male chauvinism. You saw B through that lens too. And you actually used it as one of the excuses for forgiving her, because she, as a woman, cannot help but do stupid things. I am not sure if you aware of this bias, but it is present in your writings.

    That is the type of view that society has normalized, to the point that women just choose to leave their man the moment they see them cry, cause they see them as weak and etc.

    I don’t know of this new “normal”, where women leave their man if he shows tears. For all I know, women are happy to have a partner who is in touch with their emotions. Where did you hear or see that women don’t want sensitive men?

    Men should be allowed to feel pain, but it has been normalized that men shouldn’t feel pain. Men have to hide their tears, show a strong face whenever something bad happens. And unfortunately, I am a victim to that too.

    It was like that in the old times. You did say that your parents are old school (It is just that their methods are a bit too old fashioned. They are too narrow minded to accept change in life style.) So I guess they’ve brought you up with this outdated stereotype about how a true man and a true woman should be.

    And yes, you are a victim of that stereotype, specially the part where you as a man are not supposed to show emotions and vulnerability.

    Besides, I do not plan to let anyone see me in my vulnerable state of misery that I am in right now. It is just better this way.

    Yes, because your parents told you a man shouldn’t show vulnerability to anyone… But there is no true intimacy, emotional intimacy, without vulnerability. I believe that a good, loving husband should be able to show vulnerability in front of his wife. It doesn’t mean he is weak, but that he has a beating heart and that things affect him.

    That is very true, but sometimes, for certain decisions to be made, you need to cut out your emotions. I would not have been able to detach from B if I didn’t shut out my emotions.

    Good that you managed to do that, because your pain was really overwhelming. But you yourself said it made you numb. So it’s not a good state to stay in on the long run.

    You can’t really heal in this numb state (you said “But now that she used up all her chances and made me break up with her, I am slowly healing.) True healing will only come if you process this pain, slowly but surely, in a safe, controlled environment (in therapy). We can’t really heal if we have suppressed emotions.

    Emotions such as fear and love and anger can end up causing you to make the wrong decisions, B being the prime example. Despite knowing that what she was doing was wrong, her fear and love for her aunt made her go along with her plan. Look at where it got her.

    Indeed, emotions can cause us harm. If we fall in love with a wrong person, it can cause us harm too. But is the solution not to fall in love at all? Or is it rather that we heal enough, so we can recognize who a good, healthy partner is, and who isn’t?

     

    #430266
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    “The problem is that we cannot selectively switch off just the unpleasant emotions while keeping the pleasant ones” That’s the weird part. I am able to freely smile and “enjoy” a lot of things without facing any issues. I can even smile and laugh even right now. So is it actually affecting me?

    “This is a negative bias towards women: that women do stupid things, and that it’s normal for them.” I think you misunderstood. I am not saying that women do stupid things, I am saying that women do things that men (I) view as stupid, such as spending hundreds of dollars on makeup and outfits, or when they are dramatic about lots of issues or when some women see their man interacting with another woman for 5 seconds, they are able to be upset for the entire day for literally no reason when all the man probably did is show the woman some directions or something. That is not an attitude I picked up from my father, that is something that I have seen from real life situations. And I only saw B through that lens cause of the absolute foolishness she kept doing. This woman broke up with me just cause I left my phone online on Instagram while I was sleeping. That is the foolishness I had to deal with. And what makes it even more stupid is that she had access to my Instagram account so if I were doing any suspicious activity, she would have known. This opinion of mine may seem like bias to you but it’s really not. I have seen multiple men complain about these same foolishness before I realized this is actually normal. It is normal for women to be overthinking about even the smallest things. They have proven it through their actions. I am not saying all women are like this, but the women that I have seen, the women that I’ve heard other men complain about, have all been like this. Tee, the women today even post sexy photos of themselves in revealing outfits and claim they are doing it for themself. IF THEY ARE DOING IT FOR THEMSELF<, WHY NOT JUST KEEP IT IN THEIR GALLERY???? This is not something that only B did, but other women have done it too. I have heard enough first hand experiences from men to know this kind of foolishness is normal to an extent but that doesn’t mean I will tolerate it more than I should.

    “I don’t know of this new “normal”, where women leave their man if he shows tears.” This is quite normal in this world. Even women using divorce to steal half of a man’s wealth has become normalized in the current society. That is why most men live in fear of dating women. I can give you lots of real life stories that I witnessed with women behaving in similar manners. One such experience was when my father brought in a foreigner to work at his company and he found a woman here to marry. They got married and hit it off for a while but then one day, following an altercation, that woman called the immigration officers on him while he was at work. He was then arrested and taken to the detention center, where he cried to his wife and my dad pleading for help to get out of there, but the wife did nothing to help him get out. So my father got him out by sending him to Cuba and fixing his paperwork so that he can return to work at his company again. And they got divorced as soon as he landed here.

    Another similar example was my dad’s other friend, who had a girlfriend and a teenage daughter. They were a lovely couple and I always visited them with my dad. One day, the woman got offered a job in the US and she wanted to move there to work but the man couldn’t move because his entire family was here and his job was here too and it would be difficult for him to get another job in the US. However, because she wanted to move to the States so badly, the man did extra work to make the money necessary to send his gf and their daughter to the US while he stayed behind to make more money so he can later join them. But a few weeks later, I found out that the woman got the job in the US (Florida to be precise), broke up with him, and married some doctor in the States, leaving him behind, broken. I can give you more real life examples that I actually witnessed regarding women like these. Therefore, I cannot really blame my parents for having their bad opinion about women when the women they have known are women like these. I don’t know where you live but the men there must be extremely lucky to not have these issues, cause these women are normal here.

    “So I guess they’ve brought you up with this outdated stereotype about how a true man and a true woman should be.” If my parents brought me up in the actual outdated stereotype that you assumed them to have done, they would have taught me that men should go out and do all the work while women must stay home as housewives bearing children and etc. That is not what my parents taught me. My parents taught me that women should be treated with respect and love and that women should be allowed to study and pursue their dreams and marry the man they desire and they should be loyal to their man, and the same goes for men too and etc. My parents taught me that when a man and woman become one, they should share their burdens, not force them on one person. The wife should be the husband’s best friend and the husband should be the wife’s best friend and they should work together to make decisions and always be responsible for each other and for their family. They taught me that the man should be the head of the household but he should never shut down his wife and always let her share her opinion regarding things and let her assist in decision making. That is what my parents taught me, and I do not believe there is anything wrong with the things they taught me.

    The only reason my parents shut down my feelings is because they cannot comprehend my feelings. They cannot comprehend the pain that a suicidal person is going through. They just use logic instead of emotions to deal with such issues, and they cannot relate to me in any manner or form. So their inability to understand me forced me to shut down my feelings because I would be wasting my energy trying to make them understand. The fact that men cannot show their emotions is something that society taught me, not what my parents taught me. My parents wanted me to express myself but their inability to understand forced me to shut down my feelings instead of telling them. They literally cannot comprehend it. That is why they only saw the humiliation when the church found out that I was suicidal.

    Look at all these feminists and other women out there creating an environment where the man has to just endure and never complain until they are completely fed up. Not every women is as mature as you are. Especially nowadays, look at all these young women just going to clubs and drinking and sleeping with multiple men and men sleeping with multiple women and etc. That is the state of current society right now. Do you think these women will appreciate a man who is in “touch with his emotions”? Immature people like these women won’t understand complex emotions. These immature women will only treat the men with emotions as weak men. Their only focus is themself. I am not saying that all women are like this. I am saying that women like this do exist, as shown by the real life examples I told you earlier.

    How do you differentiate between a good and bad partner anyway in this day and age? My uncle and aunt got married in December 2012 and when we met my aunt, she was the most amazing woman that any one of us had ever met. I was like 7 back then and even I was impressed by her, and you know that if an innocent child is able to say you are amazing, that means YOU ARE AMAZING. My aunt was so caring, so loving, so kind and understanding, always taking care of each of us family members, always helping out in the kitchen and taking responsibility and etc. Even my father told the other women in the house that they should learn from her (as a joke). She was a well respected teacher at a high school and was always looked up to by the kids there. But only recently did we find out her true nature. She had rejected Christianity and she disrespected my grandfather who is a priest. She had been emotionally cheating with another man (A TAXI DRIVER!!!!!) while my confused uncle was at home wondering why she was behaving so hostile to him. Everyone knows my uncle as the deacon and the well respected teacher. Everyone knows that my uncle is kind, gentle and innocent (to the point that they take advantage of him to borrow money which they never return). EVERYONE KNOWS THAT HE IS NOT EVEN THE TYPE TO ABUSE HIS WIFE. But this woman divorced him cause he was not masculine enough for her!!!!!! This is the type of woman that exists in society now. This woman is a perfect example of a woman who would leave their man for showing his emotions. Then she married the taxi driver and converted into his religion. She even tried to turn their two kids against their father, but the older one was mature enough to realize what a horrible person his mother really is but the younger one was easily manipulated by treats and other stuff his mother brought. She even forced her own brother out of her family and treats her mother like trash, and we didn’t know any of this until recently cause of how good she was at hiding it. So how do we even tell who is a good partner and who is not a good partner? They can easily hide it from us, make us believe that they are the most perfect person in the world, while hiding their true nature.

    Paradoxy

     

    #430267
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I would like to separate our debate about women in the modern society (which I will address too), from the fact that you have suffered emotional abuse and neglect by your parents, regardless of whether they did it on purpose or not. Of course, they didn’t do it on purpose – they did what they thought was right. But nevertheless, it still caused severe emotional harm to you. And this harm needs to be addressed and healed – if you want to have a fulfilling life and a healthy relationship/marriage.

    You’ve opened up and shared your pain and your vulnerability on this thread, and I appreciate it, and would like to help you. You did indeed suffer from B’s poor treatment, as well as from your parents’ poor treatment. And a part of you knows it. You’ve shared about it extensively.

    But there is this other part, which got stronger in recent posts, where you minimize the pain you’ve suffered and seek to find excuses to basically stay within the confines of your parents’ worldview. You said:

    The only reason my parents shut down my feelings is because they cannot comprehend my feelings. They cannot comprehend the pain that a suicidal person is going through.

    If they cannot comprehend feelings, it doesn’t mean they need to crush the person who is having those feelings (you). They could have (and should have) taken you to a psychologist after you suicide attempt. But instead, your mother told you you’ve caused them humiliation, while your father said that suicidal people are idiots:

    He is the type of person that constantly tells me that suicidal people are idiots and etc.

    This attitude is more than ignorance. It is called wilful ignorance: when someone has the capacity to understand, and has access to relevant information, but they don’t want to. You say your father is highly educated, and yet he was capable of (ignorantly ) claiming that suicidal people are idiots.

    I would like to communicate with the part of you who sees how damaging this was, and who stops making excuses. You don’t have to hate your parents, I am not saying that, but just stop making excuses for them. And start focusing on healing the pain they’ve caused you, rather than finding “proofs” that how they did things was actually right.

     

    #430272
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    You are right that my parents did not need to crush the person who is having the suicidal feelings. But they did what they did and I consider that the past, something that I have moved on from a long time ago. My father is not highly educated. Both of my parents only had a community college level basic education. Both of them got where they are now through sheer will power and determination. And education has nothing to do with the ability to empathize with people. He has suffered far worse than me yet he was never suicidal. He cannot empathize with me on this matter and he will see suicidal people as idiots. I am not making excuses, I understand why they did what they did. But that does not mean I will support what they did nor am I going to forget what they did. I just don’t anyone to have the misunderstanding that my parents are horrible people. They are just stubborn and ignorant. Thats it.

    You keep mentioning that I heal from this. How do you expect me to heal? I am fully aware of my thoughts. I am fully aware of my feelings and the path that I am being driven into. So all I have to do is just change my mindset. But a part of me does not want to change that mindset. But I know it is wrong. It’s like the pain gives me some form of satisfaction. I find peace in this loneliness I feel. How are these negative thoughts going to affect me if I have perfect control over them?

    Paradoxy

    #430282
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    You are right that my parents did not need to crush the person who is having the suicidal feelings. But they did what they did and I consider that the past, something that I have moved on from a long time ago.

    It is not the past unfortunately. The pain your spoke about and the feelings of emptiness and wishing you were never born, which you’ve shared here, are all the consequences of being treated like that by your parents. Your pain is current, it is still ongoing, even if the events happened quite a few years ago.

    My father is not highly educated. Both of my parents only had a community college level basic education.

    I was referring you what you said that your father has “a highly respected and high-earning job as a marine electrical engineer in cruise ships and cargo ships“. He has college education, as does your mother.

    For someone with college education, living in the 21st century, they should know that when a child or a teenager has suicidal ideations, and even attempts suicide, is an alarm bell that something is going on in their psyche and that it should be carefully addressed. Berating and shaming their child in such a sensitive moment, instead of seeking professional help, is to me a sign of wilful negligence, I have to say. Their reaction is an example of severe emotional abuse.

    What is worse is that your father had childhood trauma himself. You said:

    He was … abandoned and belittled and treated like trash by his own family and distant relatives too, and he was traumatized by an incident when he was 5 where he was falsely accused of stealing 10 cents and was tortured for weeks with physical beating by his teacher until he had to admit to stealing to stop the pain, even though he did not steal the money.

    You went on to say:

    The trauma from that incident was so severe that I have seen him cry about it even now and he is almost 50 years old. But these harsh situations made him grow his resolve to be better than everyone who treated him poorly, to the point that he was the only person to have a highly respected and high-earning job as a marine electrical engineer in cruise ships and cargo ships, while everyone else had average engineering jobs or teacher jobs etc.

    As a result of his severe childhood trauma, your father got better in terms of his career, his professional success, than any other member of his family, or perhaps even a wider community. However, his trauma unfortunately hasn’t made him more compassionate, neither towards himself nor his own son.

    He clearly suppressed his pain and marched on, having no time for stupidities like emotions. He was of the conviction that men “do not have time to feel pain. We have responsibilities and other issues to worry about.”

    And he believes that those who can’t simply shake off their pain and their trauma are idiots. If you are a man and you can’t clench your teeth in the face of pain and proceed with your responsibilities – you are an idiot. That’s approximately the message he has given you.

    Can you see this?

    And now, you are being drawn into the same kind of reasoning. At least one part of you is: the part who is making excuses for your father and saying that the best is to just press on and clench your teeth:

    It is too late to be Godwin-the-child, I have a med degree to finish and I am too old to be behaving like a child. I should be focusing on my future career and etc. Med is already a pain on my behind so I do not have the time nor energy to share to Godwin-the-child.

    You asked me how to heal. By acknowledging that there is a wounded part in you, your inner child, who is still very much alive and very much influencing you, even if you don’t care to admit it. And then getting in touch with him and his emotional needs, which have been suppressed and dismissed all these years.

     

    #430298
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Even if I am still suffering, that still doesn’t change that their behavior only affected me in the past. I am in college now, in a whole different country far from their influence.

    I don’t know how to explain this but the mediocre education that my father received is not even college level. All my father knew was basic knowledge on electricity which he built upon through experience and reading books. My mother was able to go to a nursing school but even that school is nothing compared to the nursing schools of today. I just used community college as the closest thing I could think of that I thought you would be familiar with. The lifestyle that you are familiar with is not the lifestyle my parents grew up in. They are not familiar with teenager issues and suicidal people like we are now. They are just too stubborn and narrow minded to see these issues.

    Yes my father had suffered some trauma. But that trauma has made him compassionate enough to WANT to understand, but he is INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING. That is because he still follows the rules and beliefs that he grew up in. That is why he asks me to open up but his inability to understand forces me to never open up to him because all he points out is how my feelings are wrong instead of understanding why I am feeling the way I feel. He suffered a lot of trauma in his youth but he did not become suicidal. He cannot empathize with suicidal people. He literally cannot understand it. You are right about everything else you said, about his beliefs and etc. And yes a part of that logic is imprinted in me too. It’s something that a lot of men agree with. I cannot waste time sulking about my depression and etc. I believe that it is essential to be in touch with your emotions AND know where your priorities lie. It is okay to grieve, but do not let the grieving prevent you from taking care of your responsibilities and dealing with your priorities.

    I have already acknowledged that there is a wounded part in me. But what do you expect me to do about his emotional needs and stuff? How am I supposed to change his loneliness when no one even wants to give me a chance at having their friendship? How am I supposed to do the things that this “inner child” wants when I have other priorities that requires more attention? I have been having exams for the last few weeks and I have been focusing on them. I tried my best not to let the break up affect my studying. The way you tell me to heal makes it sound so simple.

    Paradoxy

    #430317
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I have been having exams for the last few weeks and I have been focusing on them. I tried my best not to let the break up affect my studying. The way you tell me to heal makes it sound so simple.

    It’s not simple. I think it would need a paradigm shift (mental shift), as well as emotional healing. And it’s a long process. But you are only 19, your adult life is only beginning.

    I think perhaps one of the starting points could be to realize that there are some serious deficiencies in your father’s wisdom, in his approach to life. Because someone who is not in touch with their emotions cannot be a wise man, per definition. You mentioned his wisdom several times:

    my father’s wisdom was passed down to me over the years that he taught me.

    I have chosen to forgive my parents because they do not know any better and their wisdom still taught me to be a good man to the best of my ability.

    What your father passed on you is probably a set of moral codes and rules for life. But he wasn’t able to pass on you the wisdom of the heart: compassion, empathy and understanding for others. You have those qualities inside of you, but if you start believing that the best way is to cut off your feelings, so they don’t bother you, then the wisdom of the heart – which you do possess – will be lost on you too.

    But that trauma has made him compassionate enough to WANT to understand, but he is INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING.

    he asks me to open up but his inability to understand forces me to never open up to him because all he points out is how my feelings are wrong instead of understanding why I am feeling the way I feel.

    He asks you to open up, not because he wants to understand you, but because he wants to prove how wrong you are. He doesn’t really want to understand. He is stubborn (your own words) and believes he knows better. That’s not a sign of any kind of compassion: his trauma seems to have made him very stubborn and defensive, very closed to a different perspective.

    You said: They have never listened to me.

    Your father never tried to understand you. He pretended he wanted to (he would ask you to open up), but then he would invalidate your feelings. And it seems he had a skill of being very convincing:

    there were moments like guilt-tripping and other similar circumstances where they would manipulate me into doing what they want without complaining (my father is a pro at psychology, and he is so rigid that everyone, whether it be his own boss, his friends, or our own relatives, knows that he should not be messed with because he always speaks the truth and can put anyone in their place by using pure logic.)

    Your father seems to be pro in convincing you (and others) to accept his views and opinions. He seems like someone who is convinced that only his stance is right, and no discussion about it. What he does then is a kind of mental coercion. In his mind, there is no space for listening to a different opinion: his word is “the truth”. End of story.

    I guess he used similar methods to convince you to study medicine, listing all the reasons why medicine is the best choice. But to be a good doctor, you have to love what you do. And you already have some doubts about it:

    The career path to become a doctor gurantees that I will be successful in life especially since I can handle the work load to a degree, but will I be happy doing this? Probably not. Though I like helping people, I don’t think med is the best way for me to help people.

    I am not saying to stop studying medicine, not at all. I am just saying to stop accepting that you need to be unhappy for the rest of your life, just to please your father, or your parents.

    Your father might have convinced you, with his “pure logic”, that medicine is the best option for you. He convinced you to give up what you love, for what is useful or opportune. And you accepted it: you accepted that your life must be as your parents construed, and nothing else. You accepted that you need to obey your parents’ wishes, even if it makes you miserable.

    I would like to invite you to challenge that stance of complete submission to your parents. They proved that they don’t know what’s best for you. For example, they know nothing about mental health. They’re not able to give you guidance on true happiness and fulfillment, which is still achievable for you. So please don’t accept everything they tell you, don’t give up on your own wishes and desires.

    I’d encourage you to re-evaluate things, e.g. see what subjects you like better, see your preferences. Allow yourself to feel your likes and dislikes. Just feel them, don’t crush them immediately. That can be the beginning of your healing.

     

    #430318
    Roberta
    Participant

    Dear ParadoxMusic

    I am sorry that other peoples lives that you have encountered shows a negative view of woman’s actions especially in divorce & money. So I give you a little bit of my story to show a different picture. When my husband & I split up I left the area and did not want the family home to be sold so that there would be space for the children to visit their father, he was given unlimited access to the children (which he did not take up  frequently)I paid travel costs every other time even though I did not have too plus would return part of maintenance for the days that he did actually have the children. I did not liquidate my 1/9 th share of the company & my parents did not insist on my husbands outstanding loan to be repaid . My husband was worth approx 3/4 of million all I requested £45,000 as a divorce settlement + £250 pm for the children.

    Please consciously choose to look for positive inputs into your life. I wish you all the best with your exams and that you will be able to balance the career path that your parents wish for you with things & people that uplift you & bring you peace & joy.

    #430332
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy:

    You ended your last post addressed to me with (I am adding the boldface feature): “It is too late to be Godwin-the-child, I have a med degree to finish and I am too old to be behaving like a child… I do not have the time nor energy to share to Godwin-the-child. I do have a lot to grow Anita and I will. Eventually I will get past this. Paradoxy.“-

    The following is my understanding. I am speaking only for myself, not for other responders, and my intent is to be of some help to you, if you allow it:

    You can’t get past this unless you get through it, and you can’t get through it if you continue to ask questions and then, before you consider the answers you receive, you argue against them. It’s like this: you know (you think you know) the answers, but you ask the questions just so to have the opportunity to argue with the person responding to you.

    And the content of your arguments is full with paradoxes: contradictory statements and inconsistent logic. When a responder points to a specific inconsistency, you respond with more inconsistencies.

    “It is too late to be Godwin-the-child, I have a med degree to finish and I am too old to be behaving like a child… I do not have the time nor energy to share to Godwin-the-child. I do have a lot to grow Anita and I will. Eventually I will get past this. Paradoxy.”- yes, I agree:  you are too old to be eating with a bib around your neck, too old to  throw a tantrum in the market because they ran out of ice-cream. I don’t recommend behaving in such ways.

    It is too late to be Godwin-the-child, I have a med degree to finish and I am too old to be behaving like a child… I do not have the time nor energy to share to Godwin-the-child. I do have a lot to grow Anita and I will. Eventually I will get past this. Paradoxy.”-

    – You will not get past this for as long as you treat Godwin-the-child rudely and cruelly. Goldwin-the-adult has the self-discipline to prevent Goldwin-the-child from throwing a tantrum in the market, but you can not silence him otherwise. Seems like you think that you can leave him behind and move on without him, and experience some semblance of mental health, but.. it’s not possible, not at 19, not at 29, not at 79.

    You have turned against yourself, trying to cut off a part of you, a part that you need. Don’t hate this part of you, love him instead, and you’ll be greatly rewarded for it.

    What I expressed in the above two paragraphs is the truth, it’s how it is, unarguably. About arguing, it’s not good for my mental health to argue, especially again and again, on and on, it makes me anxious… so I won’t. I will close with a few quotes (Goodreads) about arguing, quotes with which I agree (regardless of who said them), and which I believe to be very relevant to your thread:

    It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them.” ― Pierre Beaumarchais

    We almost never teach or learn when arguing.” ― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

    I have come to the conclusion that there is only one way under high heaven to get the best of an argument— and that is to avoid it. Avoid it as you would avoid rattlesnakes and earthquakes.” ― Dale Carnegie.

    If you want to bring the world closer to peace, be a peacemaker by creating peace whenever you can. If you find yourself engaged in an argument that only stirs anger in the heart, quickly make peace and carry on.”- Suzy Kassem

    I am making peace and carrying on..

    anita

    #430351
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    I don’t follow my father’s wisdom. It was just used to guide me to make my own wisdom, that I chose after differentiating the right and wrong in his wisdom. I am in touch with my emotions, I just don’t let it affect my work.

    You are right that my father only passed on the set of moral codes and rules for life. But I used my experiences to create the wisdom of the heart. I don’t believe that emotions should be ignored. I just choose to still ignore it cause I still have things I need to get completed. I cannot let my depression affect them.

    I already know that what my father is like. And he is exactly what you described him to be. That is why I no longer engage with him unnecessarily. I just mind my own business. My father is a pro in speaking the truth in such a logical way that he is able to prove everyone wrong. It is not mere convincing, he is able to use evidence and logic in such a clear form that you cannot argue with logic. In my case he may be convinced that his stance is right, but in cases regarding other people, he is not merely convincing, he is actually PROVING that his stance is right. If it was mere persuasion, people would still be able to argue with him. But he shuts everyone up with pure logic. It’s like he can PROVE that 2+2=4 instead of 5 and nobody will go against it cause they know he is right. In the case of me choosing medicine, that was a situation of convincing, but though I knew he was wrong, I just decided to go along with his decision to avoid making things complicated and to avoid a fight. Besides, what am I going to do once I quit med? Think my parents will support me pursuing another career? They pay for my college tuition and rent etc. So how do I even oppose them? I accepted my parents wishes cause it would be a drag to go against them. Then everyday they will call me reminding me that quitting med is a bad idea and etc. I was not convinced by my parents’ ideals. I just chose med to just avoid dealing with them. My preferences are music and computers, but I do not have the time nor funds to pursue them. I had to even get pirated versions of music softwares to make my music, which I had to stop when Med started. So what do I do now?

    Paradoxy

     

    #430352
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear Roberta,

    I am not saying that amazing women like you don’t exist. It is just that unfortunately, most of the young women today are being influenced by all the wrong people on social media today and peer pressure and etc, which leads them to follow the wrong path, and most of them are rebellious too so their parents can’t control them. These types of women continue to rise. It is very rare to find amazing women like you and I am disappointed in your husband for not realizing what he lost, but I appreciate you for sharing your experience.

    Paradoxy

    #430354
    ParadoxMusic
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    The inconsistencies occur because the lifestyle I grew up in is more complex than the lifestyle that you guys grew up knowing. I grew up in a village with farmers and traditions and religious devotions and family politics. I am trying my best to simplify the issues that I experience for the readers to understand better, but there are a lot of underlying factors that affect the situation which would be too complex for me to explain cause it is something you experience, not something you just know. I am able to argue back against the advice given because I have already considered the different outcomes before asking the questions, and I expected solutions that I have not already thought of but I keep getting answers that I am already aware of. I know that my parents are cancerous to me, but I have already mentally and emotionally cut myself off of them, but do not disrespect them because I am wise enough to realize that though their methods are just horrible, their intentions were still good. Listing out all of the specifics leading to this realization is too complicated to just write down, you have to experience it to actually understand it. In the same way, a lot of other things that you and the others have stated have already been considered, but there is always an underlying obstacle because due to a lifestyle difference, certain obstacles are harder to get over. It is like the different species of sharks around the world. They may all be sharks but you cannot treat every shark the same way, as there are differences in behavior and etc. A Nurse shark would not be as aggressive as a great white shark.

    I know what Godwin-the-child wants. He wants compassion, friends, to be cared for by someone. He wants to make music, play the piano, build machines, play videogames, watch animes etc. I have just decided to shut him up for now so I can focus on med and then give him some freedom after med so he doesn’t affect my chances in becoming a doctor.

    I appreciate the advice you have given anita, but life is way more complex for certain people due to underlying factors that affect every decision. The factors that affected you will not be the same factors that affect me, and therefore the solutions you suggest won’t work in certain situations. I make my decisions by considering all these factors first. That is why I came here because despite knowing that what B did was wrong and she does not deserve forgiveness from me, I have to consider all the factors that helped create her situation and also think about what I would do in her situation while also considering B’s past which would have had some form of influence in her poor decision making as well as her emotions then. A lot of people make rash stupid decisions that make you wonder how in the world they were stupid enough to do certain things but you do not know what that person experienced in that moment, the thoughts that they underwent in that one simple moment, unless you actually experience it yourself. The complexity of the situation made me want a third person’s perspective before I made my decision. In fact you might need her side of the story too because my perspective of things may cloud your judgement cause you can only see the situation from my point of view.

    I apologize if I sound like a stubborn brat to you.

    Paradoxy

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