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PeterParticipant
At the end of a relationship it is likely you will question such concepts as happiness, love… if only to make sense of your experiences. You will be torn between acceptance and bitterness.
I know as part of the process it will feel as if your whole experience with this man was a lie.
But that is not likely true. It is possible to continue to love and miss someone even when a relationship as we hoped it would be, ends.Allowing ones happiness is become dependent on another can put a great deal of strain on a relationship. The idea/ thinking of making oneself happy or finding happiness can get in the way of experiencing joy. Happiness is something we experience in the moment when we notice it. I think if you examine those moments where you were surprised by joy and experienced happiness that you did not create it, they just were. It is only in highlight when we look for explanation, cause and effect, that we say oh such and such was what made me happy. And then we try to repeat the experience expecting the same result, but this time almost always surprised not by joy but by disappointment…
Where to start?
Allow yourself to be ok with feeling lost, there is a time for all things.
And maybe you discover that it’s not that your lost but in a time of wandering, and wandering opening the door to discovering your path and joy. “To live like a river flows, Carried by the surprise Of its own unfolding.”All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king
J. R. R. TolkienPeterParticipantSame.
For me my body does not function very well if I’m even 10 pounds overweight and I let it get to 40 pounds!
My thinking of my wight and food as I tried to lose it became obsessive.To lose the weight I had to learn how to make the obsession work for me.
I did this by being real honest about what I was eating and why, writing down everything I ate though out the day as well as my feelings about it. Once i wrote it it down I could stop thinking about it.
By being honest I could easily see the reasons behind the wight gain and make better choices and avoid the labeling myself for those times where my choices were not the best.
Like natachamonic I stopped trying not to think about food and instead just notice, without self judgment, when I did. the ego not as judge but as observer
PeterParticipantWhy did he tell you that “he loves me more then anything and misses me like crazy and how he thinks of me every min” right before he said the above?
It is surprising how little the role of the ‘idea of Love’ plays in a discussion to end a relationships or not.
Two people can authentically love each other and still have the relationship end.Without love a relationship is sure to fail but even where there is love a relationship is not assured, in fact love my require that it end.
I know that doesn’t help. Its one of the paradoxes of love I struggle with most… and as the song goes… What’s love got to do with it…
My conclusion, on one plain everything and on another level nothing, and both coexist at the same time, in the same moment, as everything is Love…
February 15, 2017 at 12:35 pm in reply to: Dealing with an introverted boyfriend as an extrovert #127771PeterParticipantYou have made me realize that it’s very important to try and understand why introverts act the way that they do.
In my opinion that is indeed a key step in what some call – Learning the ‘love language’ of our partner.
(and of course your partner needs to understand your tenancy to be a extrovert)PeterParticipantI’m panicking about the life ahead of me
Living in the imagined future of what if and fear… I know it well.
Some cognitive advice – try paying attention to when you cross the line from planning for your future to living in the future of what if ‘the sky is falling’.From my own experience, in hind sight, all my worries I had as a student were pointless.
Even if you manage to do everything right and make all the right decisions it will not mean you end up were you expected to be. In fact I suspect you won’t, and will be glad of it.Make the best choices you can with the information you have – when you learn better, do better. What more can you ask of yourself or anyone?
Remember most of the fear you will experience in life will be based false evidence appearing real.
The purpose of fear is to get your attention, once it has your attention, take appropriate actions and let it go. don’t let it take you into the future and out of the presentFebruary 15, 2017 at 7:23 am in reply to: Dealing with an introverted boyfriend as an extrovert #127685PeterParticipantIt is not unusual for Introverts and extroverts to be attracted to each other. The difference ways in experiencing the world complement each other and lead to individual growth and so can be a gift. – There is a time for all things.
Both introverts and extroverts are challenged to reframe their view of their partner from judgment and resentment for not being more like they would like them to be, to gratitude for the value that they do bring into their lives. As this process evolves, appreciation replaces criticism and acceptance replaces judgment. It does take work and it does take time, but as countless couples know from their experience, the payoffs more than justify the effort.
I found the following books helpful in understanding this idea of the introvert and extrovert. I think you will discover that each of us contain both attributes which manifest in different areas of life.
Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking by Susan Cain
The Positive Power Of Negative Thinking by Julie Noremhttps://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-introverts-corner/201509/5-crucial-tips-introvert-extrovert-couples
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-introverts-corner/201612/how-date-introvertPeterParticipantI think myself as selfish but I am willing to sacrifice anything for people who can pass my “test”
I’ve never been found of the idea of “the test”. Perhaps due to my own experience of a girlfriend to which everything became a test. Being human it was inevitable that I failed but not until l my sense of self was totally confused.
Perhaps taking yourself out of your current way of thinking could be helpful. Why not erase the chock board and start over.
Perhaps start by taking some time to reconnect to your own understanding of love, relationship… when you use those words what are you really saying?
Very much recommend
How to Be an Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving – by David Richo as a guidePeterParticipantNo apologies required. It can be very helpful to write what were thinking and feeling without restraint or judgments.
Actually writing without making judgments about it might be a good practice for you.
One your done you could go over what you have written and look for the ways in which you have ‘measured’ and labeled your experiences.Ask yourself
Where are these labels coming from? How helpful are they?
Where am I looking for validation? why/
How are you measuring your experiences? How accurate are these measurements? (Studies show that as a whole most people are really really bad at measuring our experiences!)February 13, 2017 at 12:51 pm in reply to: Advice appreciated, long term relationship ending. #127473PeterParticipantHow do I un-attach
I think you un-attach when you recognize that in some way you will always be a part of each other’s stories. I don’t believe that to be a contradiction. Trying to forget, or pretend otherwise just makes the attachments stronger.
In a way after a break up it is memory that we are attached to. Memory not just of the past experiences but memories of the hope we had for an imagined future that can no longer be. Knowing what we are mourning and might wish to reattach to is important part of the process.
Time does not heal but it can soften memories and with that the attachments we have to them. We breathe, we mourn, and just maybe find ourselves grateful for what we have learned.
PeterParticipantA conversation about the music industry that lead to such anger and hurt feelings was as you suspected likely not about a difference of opinion about the music industry. Just at the argument about taking out the garbage is never really about taking out the garbage.
In relationships we often create conditions for issue to arise that we are at some level trying to heal. For example perhaps one or both of you needed to heal a a past hurt (now unconscious) where you were no heard, or respected for what you felt or thought. Perhaps at some level you felt as if you had no voice. In such a case the augment was not about the music industry but about having a voice.
A relationship ought to be a safe place to work out such past pain which is why we use them, almost always subconsciously, for that purpose.
Anyway in Relationship honest communication is key and that can only start to happen when we become conscious of the real issue at the root.
I really like the following book Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High, by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler.
(making is safe and mastering you stories are a must in all honest dialog)The book does a good job at teaching people the art of how to have a true dialogue – the free exchange of multiple ideas that allow varying opinions to be put out in the open, along with accurate and relevant information necessary to make decisions. The book also helps readers prepare for high-impact situations; feel safe talking about almost any topic; be persuasive and not an abrasive personality no one would want to deal with; keep cool and calm in tough situations where others freak out or tune out; and in the end see the actions and results you wanted from the beginning.
Seven effective steps to mastering a crucial conversation:
1. Start with Heart – What is the desired result from this conversation? What exactly is at stake? You have to ask yourself these questions to determine how important this conversation is to you and your career. Knowing what is at stake going into the conversation will help you stay true to your convictions.
2. Learn to Look – Be on the lookout for a lack of mutual purpose. Continuously ask yourself whether you are leading the conversation with dialogue or defensiveness. And if you or the other party strays toward the latter, protect your conversation from going downhill with an expression like “I think we’ve moved away from dialogue” or “I’m sorry. I’ve been trying to force my ideas on you.”
3. Make it Safe – When you notice that you and others have moved away from dialogue, do something to make it more comfortable. Ask a question and show interest in others’ views. Apologies, smiles, even a request for a brief “time out” can help restore safety when things get dicey.
4. Master your Story – Retrace your path to find out what facts are behind the story you’re telling. When you have the facts on your side, it’s hard to deny your argument.
5. State your Path – Share your facts and conclusions in a way that will make the other party feel safe telling their story, too.
6. Explore Others’ Path – A dialogue allows you to actively inquire about the other party’s views. Now that you both understand each other, you can emphasize which parts you agree upon and the areas in which you differ.
7. Move to Action – Come to a consensus about what will happen, document who does what by when and settle on a way to follow up.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantWhat do you mean by the use of the word hate?
Do you hate some of the things she does, represents, symbolizes or do you hate Her ‘being’ and right to exist independent of you.as for the question about ignoring her. There is no ‘how’ you do or you do not.
February 10, 2017 at 5:16 pm in reply to: Learning to mediate and have faith in loving again #127220PeterParticipantThanks for the kind words.
I believe in the beauty of this world even though it can seem ugly
I really like that!
For me this statement of belief is also a statement of faith, something to lean on in moments of doubt and those times when the world can appear ugly.
My own journey after asking the same questions about love and faith has lead me to work at being able to say Yes to Life as it is, all of it, the good the bad and the ugly and ‘know’ it as LOVE. I know that might sound at odds with many peoples expectation of love but for me that is has become a matter of faith.
Saying that it is important to recognize that we experience Love in many different ways, on many different “planes” if you will. The statement above is about the plane of universal LOVE. That in the end all we experience and are is and can only be Love.
Sorry if this feels like i’m jumping around
The same week I saw Collateral Beauty I saw La La Land and to me I see them as being connected. The first about the coming to terms with LOVE and the other with love in relationship that points to LOVE.
Spoiler
On the surface la la land appears as a old time Hollywood musical and with that I think the expectation of a typical Hollywood ending.
Two people meet fall in love, achieve there dreams and live together happy ever after. And the move shows a imagined version of that la la land dream but the story is deeper then that.The two meet and discover authentic love, and we get a sense that they are ‘soul mates’. This experience of love enables both of them to achieve their dreams or you might say calling or becoming. Watching we want them to have the happy ever ending and to have it all, but for them to become they can’t be together.
Life it seems wants us to become and that this becoming overrides any notion of romantic love that at some level we may ache for, Even for ‘soul mates’. Love bitter sweet.
I imagine as the two characters return to their lives after their chance meeting latter in life that they understand and so say ‘Yes to life as it is’, Love bitter sweet, and because of that all the more wondrous.
- (In the experience of the soul mate I think one gets to discover ones soul and doing so realize that our soul mate was never another but always present within ourselves. We are our soul mate)
Anyway it sounds to me that you have indeed set on the hero’s journey of self discovery and I suspect along the way will discoverer that much of what find was never what you might have dream you were looking for.
Love is their for you, the world beautiful, even when bitter sweet. Keep the faith
“We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.” – T. S. Eliot
(And in that moment may you find yourself able to say YES. – that is my hope. Hope, Belief, Faith… Love)- This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by Peter.
February 10, 2017 at 8:11 am in reply to: Learning to mediate and have faith in loving again #127175PeterParticipantI guess all this to ask, how do you guys keep faith. How do you trust that there is love out there for you? Maybe this is the type of questions that hit you once you reach 30?
Great Questions.
My observation is that such questions arise after a painful breakup and in the second half of life. What is Love, what’s love got to do with it… ‘it’ being faith in life, and knowing it as love…
Reminds me of the resent movie Collateral Beauty where the main character defiantly accuse, Death, Love and Time for what is ultimately his loss of Faith in life.
My observation that to answer the question of how to keep ones faith this thing we call love one should take some time to define for themselves what they mean by faith and love.
Faith is a difficult concept to define because it’s about not knowing and acting as if anyway – Fear is to courage as doubt is to faith. It is often in times when we do not know and even doubt that we discover the truth of our faith (what we lean on to move us through)
Today many I think equate faith with having to be certain in belief (and so become fanatical).
There is a difference Acting within the certainty of one’s Faith (that life is Love) and having to be certain of one belief and call it faith in order to act correctly.Certainty does not require a Faith but times of uncertainty does. Such an understanding I think allows one to act with a strong even certain intention yet with humility and openness to learn.
For example some said that because Mother Teresa expressed moments of doubt about God’s love, plan, justice… (Understandably) that she had lost her faith. BI don’t think so – even though she did not always understand she continued to act ‘as if’ (not a fake it to you make it thing) but an authentic ‘as if’, she leaned on her faith that God/life was/is love especially at times of doubt. And the remarkable thing was that in doing so she became the experience of Love and grace for those she served!
Interestingly In fairy tales the question is often symbolized as being a key and interestingly the question and the doors it open is often more important than finding ‘a’ answer. If you are open to the method of symbolic language fairy tales can teach us a lot about love.
Like dreams using the method each character in a story represents a part of the person reading it. For example the search of the prince for the princes is a uniting of action with being, feeling with thinking… Love within a bond that contends with both living in the world, the stuff of life, and the soul/being connection with ourselves and another. Is that what you mean when you talk about the love you hope to find/experience?
Love is out there for you though and now that you are have asked the question you are called to the hero’s journey to discover where the question leads. Note that the question leads and that you cannot force it to an answer of your making. I think you will find that you will ‘find’ love in ways you did not expect
Anyway sorry if that didn’t make any sense
book suggestions
I really liked Clarissa Pinkola Estés story skeletor women
https://awakeningwomen.com/2010/07/04/skeleton-woman-a-love-story/
Which is wonderfully expanded in her book Woman Who Run with the WolvesThe Birth of Pleasure: A New Map of Love – by Carol Gilligan is also quite illumining
Gilligan asks “why is love so often associated with tragedy. Why are our experiences of pleasure so often shadowed by loss? And can we change these patterns?I would also recommend How to Be an Adult in Love: Letting Love in Safely and Showing It Recklessly by David Richo
February 9, 2017 at 12:02 pm in reply to: Is living in the now/present moment negative for you future/future plans? #127120PeterParticipantI recently read a book by a woman who’s husband lost his long term memory and so literally lived in the present.
It proved to be very challenging for both of them.There is a difference of setting goals and intentions and living in the future.
Setting goals and intentions happens in the present. once made the art is to do by not doing, meaning ruminating and trying to force the outcome. Instead one responds in the moment and adjusts as require. the path may not lead to the intention you were pointing to, but it will go where you are meant to be. Living in the present create the mindset were you can accept that.Living in the future is living in the imagined dream of what might be, magical thinking and fantasy.
Living in the past is living in nostalgia, either attempting to recreate some past moment or change and fix one.PeterParticipantLife has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer. ― Joseph Campbell
The search for purpose… The folly of the 21 century self help movement. I say that because more often than not it leads to despair and stuckness.
The problem in my opinion is that the idea of purpose and meaning is subjective and personal yet most people tend to try to measure it in objective ways usually involving the need for validation outside of our self. I have not met anyone that has not sucked at measuring experience.
After my own search for purpose/meaning I have come to the conclusion that any philosophical or psychological search for purpose can only end in the absurd.
In philosophy, “the Absurd” refers to the conflict between the human tendency to seek inherent value and meaning in life and the human inability to find any. In this context absurd does not mean “logically impossible”, but rather “humanly impossible”. The universe and the human mind do not each separately cause the Absurd, but rather, the Absurd arises by the contradictory nature of the two existing simultaneously.
Purpose and meaning like air cannot be grasped and is not something that can be searched for, these concepts can only be experienced and lived. To experience purpose and meaning one must stop looking. (Stop the seeking experience and in that space experience the moment as is and ones involvement with it – that is meaning, that is purpose)
I don’t believe people are looking for the meaning of life as much as they are looking for the experience of being alive.
You must give up the life you planned in order to have the life that is waiting for you.
The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.
― Joseph CampbellI have found my guides in books though like you would love to meet a mentor in the desert or woods
Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl – Frankl concludes that the meaning of life is found in every moment of living; life never ceases to have meaning, even in suffering and death.
Learning to Fall – The Blessings of an Imperfect Life by Philip Simmons
“We do not have a say in all that befalls us, but we do have a say in the shape of our own character. Character, too often, is something others feel we must have beaten into us. Truth is, much of our character is under no one’s control but is shaped haphazardly by our families, our communities, and our culture—not to mention the genetic foll of the dice by which we’re made to begin with. But increasingly as we reach adulthood, we come to see character as a matter of choice. We choose practices and principles that share our character, building either a sound vessel or a weak one. We choose friends whose qualities we wish to develop or preserve in ourselves. Religious faith and spiritual practice are thought to strengthen this vessel, creating a sound container for our developing relationship to mystery, suffering, and the Divine. Life throws things at us that we cannot predict and cannot control. What we can control is who we are along the way.”
“When we accept our impermanence, letting go of our attachment to things as they are, we open ourselves to grace. When we can stand calmly in the face of our passing away, when we have the courage to look even into the face of a child and say, ‘This flower, too, will fade and be no more,’when we can sense the nearness of death and feel its rightness equally with birth, then we will have crossed over to that farther shore where death can hold no fear for us, where we will know the measure of the eternal that is ours in this life.
We all have within us this capacity for wonder, this ability to break the bonds of ordinary awareness and sense that though our lives are fleeting and transitory, we are part of something larger, eternal and unchanging.”
– Philip SimmonsCame across a blog by Connie Zweig that I found interesting
“To live with shadow awareness is to turn away from the peaks toward the valleys, away from the heights and the rarified air toward the depths and the dark and the dense. It is to turn toward the unpleasant thoughts, hidden fantasies, marginal feelings that are taboo. Our secret lust, greed, envy, rage. To live with shadow awareness is to move our eyes from up to down, to relinquish the clarity of blue-sky thinking for the uncertain murkiness of a foggy morning.” That is so beautiful, and yet we live in a culture that’s addicted to blue-sky thinking. So how can people begin to open themselves to the shadow in their lives?
“The Greeks had a name for this downward path: katabasis, or descent. Our ancient forebears understood that we needed not only to fly above with the birds, lightly and full of grace, but also to crawl beneath with the snakes, slowly, silently, on our bellies. We do not choose this lower path; it chooses us. At midlife, we do not have depression; rather, depression has us. And if we can allow the ego to take a back seat and go along for the ride, then the real journey can begin: depression can become descent; the refusal to go down can become the choice to go down. And the appointment with the shadow can be kept” – conniezweig
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