Hi SereneWolf,

moving on to the second part of your post, about romantic relationships…

I agree with you. And the thing is that I never been taught to give relationships priority you know. That’s something I discovered after my earlier 20s that building relationships romantic or generally it’s really important. And the self-reliance fueled that wrong belief even more.

Yes, I can imagine. If you believe that others will hurt you and that you can actually do pretty well alone, then sure, I see why you didn’t want to build relationships, not only romantic but friendships either, if I understood you well? Btw, did you have close friends as a child?

And the funny part is that I have trust issues even though till now I’ve met like really kind, helpful and amazing people. Generally takes me long to trust in the person

Yeah, your lack of trust has developed gradually, with your parents (and I guess other adults too, like your grandfather?), in your childhood. And it remained a blueprint for how you view all other relationships. Even if you meet kind and loving people, your core belief (“I cannot trust people”) will be still working in your subconscious and will make you guarded and cautious.

But what I’m glad about is that I was never into transactional relationships like I’m only helping you just because you helped me. I always have this mindset of If I’m able to help someone then I’m going to help. I don’t want something in return.

Right. That means your intention is pure, and you have no expectations from the person to “pay you back”. Perhaps what you’ve experienced in your childhood is some kind of manipulation/transactionality, either on your own skin or in your family? That people would only help each other if they saw personal gain in it?

But in previous romantic relationship part I was like a fixing figure so that also didn’t fulfilled me either so..

Yeah, you slid into the father figure a bit, feeling that your girlfriend needs help and fixing, and you were trying to guide her in that (and then you would get annoyed when she couldn’t get on top of her problems). In reality, she did need help to overcome her issues, but not from you, but a therapist…

I guess that in that relationship too, you didn’t dare to show your own vulnerability, your own weaknesses, but you (actually both of you) were focusing mostly on her weaknesses, right? Like, she was the “project” that you were working on, and it wasn’t coming along well. And so you were getting frustrated, and she was feeling guilty etc etc.

I told her If she wants we can also stop physical things but she was like naah.. But anyways I guess we’re both little tired to find something more suitable for ourselves..

What’s with the doctor now?

I do trust her. But somehow I’m still not trusting in this relationship working out with her

Even if you’d like to trust her, I think you still don’t trust her. Because the false core belief (“I cannot trust others”, or “Other people will hurt me”) is still active…

Ohh right definitely I am afraid of falling in love. It feels like I’m trying to protecting too much or like not letting it loose enough you know.. and I don’t think I need something from them. But more like fear of wasting time and not working out and just dull over the time you know. Because again I still have the fear that I’m not getting any younger

Would to “let loose” mean to get “madly” in love, which means you’d become too distracted and not able to function properly? It seems you believe that if you fall in love, you’ll be too vulnerable, too distressed, not focused enough, and they’ll be able to prevent you from even reaching your goals, your career goals etc. Like, that the person you love will prevent you from reaching your goals and dreams. Could it be it?

To be honest I’m not sure if that’s the root cause it may be I don’t know… and yeah we can explore

I am just thinking… betrayal of trust can happen if we open up and show vulnerability, and the other person ridicules us, shames us or uses it against us. Or it can happen if they promise us something and never deliver. And I guess it can also happen if they shame us and criticize us all the time (like your father and my mother did), and we can never trust that they wouldn’t hurt us. I wonder if any of these reasons resonate with you?

I took few days of break for applying. I didn’t just felt like it. I started applying again though so let’s see.

Any luck since then in finding a job? I do hope you’ve managed to find something good, something you enjoy…

Hi Beni,

Yes, it can be seen on the scan. Ah and I have the thing where part of the spine is not connected. (Spindolysis)

good that you have it confirmed by a scan. And spondylosis – isn’t it like arthritis of the spine (calcification of the facet joints, thinning of the discs etc)? Not sure what you mean by part of the spine not connected?

I was Skating a 3.5m high half pipe the day before and there was no ladder then you run up a lot.

Oh I see… I can imagine that causes a pretty big stress on the spine, and as you said, an uneven (asymmetrical) load.

I wonder what I’ve done for shure a lot and only a few things constant. I did the intrusion where they inject cortisol close to the spine. I went surfing in Norway maybe it was the change of environment or the intrusion cause it went better then. Cycling was the best for pain relief. I couldn’t stand more than 10 min and in the beginning I needed to cycle in the middle of the night to get some relief. I brought a bike to Norway I would feel insecure without it. Hanging is good and I did it occasionally also many people told me this. Stretching calves and hip flexors. And to feel my abs and back muscles conscious. I tried to force posture by time and then let go of it again. Ah and dry needling might have helped too.

Oh wow, you did a lot! My pain wasn’t so unbearable that I would need a cortisol injection, it was about 4-5 max (in rare instances more than that). But it was persistant, nothing I did seemed to help. In the beginning the doctor told me that it would last for about 2 months, but it had been dragging for much longer, and then in the summer I experienced some improvement.

Like you, I too can’t sit (or stand) for too long, need to take regular walks, because that’s what helps “lubricate” the spine. And doing core exercises for the abs and back muscles, just like you said. Because I had a bad posture before and weak back muscles. And also, due to my knee injury 3 years prior, I was walking/hiking less, so I guess my spine didn’t get proper exercise (and there was uneven loading as well). It’s all connected, and I guess one thing lead to another.

I am glad cycling (and all the other stuff) helped you and that you are mostly pain free now. And I assume you are young, so that’s a bonus. I know some personal trainers on youtube who had a disc bulge or even a disc rupture in their 20s, and they recovered and are totally pain free now. But I guess you do need to be careful about the kind of moves you do, because you don’t want to aggravate the pain unnecessarily.

This monk told me to never push when I was moving a cart and that I should use the weight of my body (I was already out of breath then ).

Yeah, the bigger the distance between the load and your core, the bigger the stress on your spine. I can do much less physical work, even house work, than before, and that’s something I am not happy about either :/

When I had the injury I pushed myself with my mind I noticed that I just could keep going if I kept pushing I thought that’s how to progress. It’s the opposite of play. It’s kinda that I moved my body with my mind. In my body this creates tension.

Yeah, don’t push yourself. Every trainer who has experience with spinal injury will tell you not to push yourself. Maybe a little, till the pain is 3-4, but never beyond that, because that’s when the inflammation starts and you’re doing yourself more harm than good.

My body somehow knows what can be done I just need to listen and let it happen.

Yeah.. but do be careful with certain moves though. Are you still skating?

Do you expirience the pain on a specific side? And rather in the legs or in the back itself?

No, I never really had sciatica, only the pain in my lower back, in the sacral area. I felt some tension in my sciatica at one point, but never really pain. You can take vitamin B6 (or B-complex) for your nerve health. Whenever I felt this tension in my sciatica, I would take vitamin B pills and it would go away.

I feel more pain on the left side btw, because it’s a left-protruding bulge. In the beginning there was a stark difference between the left and the right side, because the right side was completely pain-free. But then it kind of got more diffuse. So now when it hurts, it hurts on both sides, though more on the left.

Dear Dafne,

you are very welcome! As for the nice smiley picture, that’s Lori, the site owner. I am just a member here, and haven’t set a profile picture 🙂

Thank you for showing me your understanding & compassion that I could not find in my family home as a child and even now in my adult life.

You are very welcome, Dafne. You deserve to be treated with kindness and respect, totally opposite of how your father treated you and is still treating you. What you’ve experienced from him is total rejection, whereas what you need is to be seen, accepted and appreciated.

Remember what we were talking about in the beginning: that you need from a man to be seen and appreciated for who you are, not as a sex object. Your father never saw you for who you are. Unfortunately he rejected you, and that’s why you are now longing for a positive father figure, for a man who is willing to care for you and show you that love and tenderness that you’ve never received from your father. So yes, you are right about this:

I felt so sad, disappointed & hurt that I cried many nights like a small child. Maybe I’m trying too hard to recreate what I’ve lost as a child which is impossible?

You were trying to receive now, once your reconnected with your father, what you haven’t received from him in your childhood. But unfortunately, he hasn’t changed, he remained that same selfish, cold-hearted person, who doesn’t know what love is. And it hurts, I know it hurts.

But you need to know that 1) it’s not your fault that your father is incapable of true love, and 2) there is a way to make up for the love, care and appreciation that you haven’t received in childhood. There is a way to make up for those unmet emotional needs, and then your entire inner world will change. How you view yourself will change, your self-confidence and self-respect will increase, and your ability to be happy too.

I don’t really feel like dating anymore. I feel like I can’t trust people and also I get easily discouraged.

I think it’s a good idea to give yourself a break from dating for the time being. Not because I think you’ll never find a suitable man, but because I think it would be better if you focused on your own healing. On changing your inner landscape and healing those emotional wounds.

You said a while ago:

I still believe that our man should be like a real father figure (protector and provider) and being needy is human. Maybe some men like that? Maybe if we do not go overboard with our emotions, it is something to cherish and not to eliminate?

Yes, it’s okay to have needs. Our need for love, appreciation, respect etc is legitimate. And we want that our partner be someone who does love, appreciate and respect us. The problem is that if haven’t healed our childhood wounds, we will feel unlovable and unworthy. And because of that, we will have a tendency to attract men who actually treat us as if we were unlovable and unworthy.

To give you some examples: a person with no self-respect will likely get into abusive relationships and might not even recognize they are being abused, or if they do recognize it, they won’t have the confidence to stand up for themselves or leave. They might believe they deserve to be treated poorly. They may wait and wait for their abusive partner to show them some love and respect, and it never happens. They might think it’s their fault that their partner is abusive, and they blame themselves and try to become “better”, instead of realizing that the problem is in their abusive partner.

You see what I mean? An emotionally healthy person knows what they need, what is good for them, and how a healthy partner looks like. Someone with unmet childhood needs on the other hand, won’t be able to know what is good for them, they will be confused, and they will tolerate abuse for way too long. They will even be attracted to unhealthy, toxic people, because that’s the only kind of “love” they know – that’s what they’ve received from their parents.

So yes, having needs is human. But there are healthy, legitimate needs and healthy ways to meet those needs. And there are unhealthy needs: when we expect too much of our partner, we are too sensitive, we get offended too easily, we are possessive, we are jealous when our man talks to another woman, etc. We want our needs to be healthy, we don’t want to be possessive, controlling, easily offended, etc.

But we also don’t want to be treated like a doormat: we don’t want to accept abuse, manipulation, humiliation, receiving breadcrumbs instead of real love.

You see? We want to have healthy needs, which means that wee don’t expect the impossible from our partner. But we also want healthy boundaries, which means that we don’t allow to be treated with disrespect by our partner. Healthy needs and healthy boundaries go hand in hand.

You said that talking to this last guy was emotionally draining (since he was talking about his ex-wife and his stepson, as well as about having his health as one of his priorities). You felt that him staying in touch with his ex and his stepson was a proof that he is still living in his past, and that he should grow out of it:

I told him politely that I want to focus now on creating life with someone new and not live their past. He should learn from it by now. It was a bit emotionally draining for me.

This might have been a projection on your part, because it doesn’t mean that he still had feelings for his ex, even if he talks to her from time to time. Maybe there was a practical reason why they were still in touch, e.g. because he wanted to stay in touch with his stepson.

Anyway, even if you were polite and “casual” in telling him that (I was quite casual and only said that past is past and I want someone who starts a new chapter with me.), it was still emotionally charged for you. You didn’t like it and he could probably feel it, even if you didn’t say it in so many words.

I am not saying that this is what drove him away, since it could have been various other reasons, even reasons that don’t have anything to do with you. But what I am trying to say is that in my view, your expectation of him to not have any other major interests in life (such as his health) and not to keep in touch with his ex and his stepson – might have been unhealthy expectations. What I mentioned above: expecting too much of your partner. And that would be because of your own unmet childhood needs. So instead of a healthy need, your need might be a bit over the top, a bit too much for a guy to fulfill.

That’s why I believe it would be best if in the next phase you would focus on your own healing, on meeting those childhood emotional needs, with the help of therapy, if possible.

That’s how you can come to a place of having both healthy needs (i.e. healthy, realistic expectations of your partner), and healthy boundaries (not allowing abuse, manipulation and disrespect).

I hope this is helpful to you, Dafne, and that you can continue to walk towards more and more healing. You’ve already grown immensely, you’ve realized some things about your father: that his heart is unfortunately closed and that you shouldn’t expect to get love from him. I hope you also know that his coldness is absolutely not your fault, because you are absolutely deserving of love, care and appreciation. Now the next thing is to start giving yourself that love, care and appreciation…

Warm hug to you too, and thank you for your kind words!

Dear Worldofthewaterwheels,

I just want to slightly rephrase the second set of  false beliefs, since false beliefs are always expressed in the “me” form:

People want me to fail. People want to hurt me. People are not to be trusted.

Hey Beni,

Sound’s like a not boring at all and very challenging situation your in.

Haha, not boring at all! I wish my life were boring and I were free from all of these “surprises”…

It’s so crazy when many thing’s hit at once. I wish that you can be loose of your struggle soon and feel healthy. It feels light to read that you get a little hold on things and being able to have some control.

Thank you, Beni. I hope too that the struggle will lessen. And yeah, I know how to calm myself down a bit, so I am not freaking out that much.

I got inspired by Peter Levine (and Vipassana) it’s worth to check him out if you’re not knowing him yet.

Yes, I am familiar with Peter Levine’s work. Pretty amazing stuff. I’ve recently discovered one of his students, who is now a teacher herself: Irene Lyon. She has a youtube channel with many great videos on the nervous system, chronic pain and the body. You might want to check her out too.

She too was a heavy-duty skier in her youth, and a fitness trainer. She had some injuries which she managed to heal with the Feldenkreis method. Later she started working with Peter Levine and developed her own trainings… Anyway, I’ve learned a lot from her.

I have been observing that when I’m in touch and I fall on a Skateboard it does not hurt it’s kind of a sweet pain. As soon as there is a slight pressure (my mind wants to take control). I get more stiff it hurts and I feel I can get injured. I belief if I’m patient to wait for risky things to do with confidence, trust and flow chances high I don’t get injured.

Okay, we are in slightly different situations, because I am pretty risk averse and would be afraid to get into sports where one can fall a lot 🙂 But if that’s your forte, and you want to master somewhat riskier sports, cool. But do be careful and yes, be patient till you are ready to do riskier moves.

I’m not what is making my condition worse always the last 4 times I observed when I’m in pain there’s also guilt or abandonment around and not only as science say’s wrong movement.

You mean you feel guilty for bringing yourself into a risky situation? And feeling abandoned by good fortune/universe when you do fall and injure yourself?

I might just feel this way because I belief it’s not good for me.

Just trying to understand here: a part of you believes that doing those risky moves is not good for you?

Placebo is a deal and I’m scared but also it feels right to not take science too serious cause of the effect it has on my bodymind. It’s like it’s right for the thinking but wrong for the heart.

Hm.. not sure what you mean here? Are you saying that you injure yourself because a part of you believes that risky moves/extreme sports aren’t good for you? That this thinking serves like a “placebo”, which makes you more prone to mistakes while skiing/skating?

Sorry if I misunderstood you… It’s an interesting topic by all means and I’d like to understand more of your dilemma.

Dear Beni,

so good to hear from you again!

It touches me that you’ve been suffering and are living trough fear for your health. I imagine you are feeling vulnerable and out of control while needing resources and confidence to handle the situation.

Oh yes, I’ve been feeling very vulnerable, and since some of my conditions turned out to be chronic, I started feeling hopeless too. I think these health issues triggered an old childhood trauma, and brought to surface some feelings and false beliefs that I didn’t even know I had. So it’s been tough, and I am still struggling.

But yes, I did learn a lot and managed to calm down some of my anxiety. I don’t feel so helpless any more. But it’s still a struggle because new health issues or injuries keep popping up, and it’s like I can’t get a break from it. So I am still in the midst of it, but with a little bit more positive attitude and more optimism. I hope it gets better soon…

I learned that I worry a lot and I learned to recognize it. When I do not worry there is capacity to feel the next step and I do not get more afraid and after that freeze.

Wow, I too learned that I worry too much about my health and that it’s actually health anxiety. I also learned that when I am anxious, the body can’t heal so well, and the pain is stronger too. When I can stop fearing and freaking out, the pain diminishes too. So that’s been super helpful.

For you, when you don’t worry, you are more in touch with your intuition, with your true self, and can make better decisions. Cool! I will try that too – to get in touch more with my true self even as a part of me is worrying about my health and wanting to believe it will never get better.

I then did Snowboard Teacher Training in December and it triggered me a lot. I can’t hide myself any longer and I showed myself which was scary and felt natural. I belief we need to live trough the emotions/trauma and set them free by handling the situation in a way which meets our needs.

Congratulations on becoming a Snowboard teacher! I am glad you decided not to hide any more, and that it felt natural to be authentic, even though it was scary.

I noticed that when I live trough something like abandonment, guilt or shame and I feel my needs I can always keep the heart open.

Oh wow, that’s a great observation! If we are in touch with our true needs, even as we are experiencing abandonment or being shamed, we can keep our heart open. We don’t need to go into a defense mode. It’s like if we are in touch with our true needs, we are also in touch with our true self. And our true self has open heart and has compassion, always. Wow, that’s profound. I need to contemplate some more on it, but I like it.

My body tells me what to do where to go and it’s something I trust in deeper every week. In some way it feels selfish which I think is a wrong view on it.

Actually if we are in tune with our body, we are also in tune with our true needs. And with our intuition. So it makes sense that you would listen to your body and try to sense how you feel about something, and then do what feels right. Yeah, it makes sense to me.

I am happy you are in touch with your needs and listening to your body and your intuition. I am sure if will lead to less freezing and a more authentic way of being. Happy to hear that, Beni!

Hi Beni,

I am sorry for never replying to this… I had health issues and a related health anxiety too, and it consumed me pretty much and it was hard to post anything constructive here…

How have you been doing?

I belief my heart can stay open to anyone and that boundries can be set with an open heart.

I think you are right. I am learning that at the moment. To not be angry at the person, to want all the best for them, and yet to set boundaries in order to protect myself from abuse. We can have compassion for the person, and yet, the person can be toxic and self-destructive (e.g. someone who is addicted is like that). And that’s why we need to set boundaries. But still, we don’t need to hate them when we set boundaries. We don’t need to close our hearts. So yeah, I agree with you.

At the same time, they might accuse us of being selfish for setting boundaries, they might guilt-trip us. In reality, we are not selfish, it’s just that we don’t want to be manipulated and taken advantage of. We do love them, but we don’t want to enable their addiction, for example.

We can have compassion both for ourselves and for them (for their true self, and their true needs). And from that place, we set boundaries. So yeah, I think it’s possible to keep an open heart and yet protect ourselves from abuse. Thank you for pointing that out…

I hope you are doing well, Beni. I’d love to hear from you, if you’re reading this…

Dear Seaturtle,

I’ve been following some of the conversation on this thread, and have read some of the accounts of N, not all of it.

You are now starting to question if you are a narcissist, and worrying about it, and my impression is that no, you are not. You said on page 2 “I feel that same impulse to let people know they have been heard, it also hurts me deeply when I am the cause of someone else being on the “unseen” end of an interaction with me“.

If you care about other people being seen and heard, and also if you care about how other people feel and if they were hurt by your words/actions, then you are definitely not a narcissist.

There is a good youtube video by a psychologist Kati Morton “Are you a narcissist? 8 common traits of narcissism“, answering this question. Towards the end of the video, she gives a list of questions to ask yourself to determine if you have narcissistic traits:

• Are you concerned about how others feel? Would it bother you if you knew that you upset someone?
• Are you quick to apologize when you’ve hurt someone else’s feelings?
• Does too much attention make you nervous and anxious?
• Do you often think that other people aren’t good enough to associate with you?
• Do you often struggle to apologize or think that every disagreement is someone else’s fault?
• Do you struggle to see things from someone else’s perspective?

From what I could gather, you did care about N’s feelings, but he didn’t care much about yours, e.g. when he would be regularly late for dates, or when he would spend hours in the evening talking to your common roommate, while you were waiting for him in bed. Just to mention a few examples.

You talked about being controlling, but it actually referred to not wanting to engage in some dangerous, adrenaline boosting activities. That’s not control – that’s self-protection. You had every right to refuse the things you were scared of doing.

N is an addict, unfortunately, who is numbing his feelings by smoking weed. That’s probably why nothing seems to bother him (his Teflon approach to problems). However, this also means he isn’t sensitive to either his own pain, neither your pain and your legitimate needs (e.g. to not be late, not disregard you when you are waiting for him, etc).

It seems he was blaming you for having those legitimate needs, telling you are too demanding, or too sensitive. In the meanwhile, he was numbing himself and making himself artificially insensitive.

That’s why I believe it’s a good idea you left him, and that you don’t try to go back and “save” him and make him more sensitive, specially until he is addicted. He might have many good qualities, but his emotional numbness and the pain he is causing you with it isn’t something you should live with.