Hi Adam,

she knows she has to change but is finding it difficult. No she doesn’t want to face the consequences or take responsibility.

So if she knows she has to change, how is she planning to do that? Is she still rejecting therapy?

So you really think she doesn’t actually want to work on herself from what I’ve told you?

Well if she doesn’t want to seek therapy, and she has severe mental health issues, I don’t see how she’s planning to work on herself. So far she has tried to taper down her antidepressants without consulting with a doctor, and that didn’t go very well (you said she was finding it difficult). What else is she doing in terms of her health and well-being?

She didn’t want anything to do with me in the end but we both know it’s for the best.

So when you told her that you want to be her friend and keep talking, but also that she needs to work on things, the final outcome of your conversation was that she doesn’t want to talk to you at all?

As I said earlier I can’t save her but I do really feel rejected as an entire person.

I understand and I am sorry about that. I do feel it has to do with a deeper wound, stemming from your childhood. Because the fact that she rejected you doesn’t mean that you’re worthy of rejection, i.e. unworthy as a person. But I believe that she re-opened that wound – her rejection kind of “confirmed” that you’re unworthy or not important as a person, or something along those lines. That’s why it hurts so bad. If you want, we can talk about it some more, or perhaps talk about it to your therapist. Because I think it’s important.

I’ve definitely come a long way in the last few weeks. I’m going to give myself time but I’d say in another few weeks I’ll be doing a lot better.

Yeah it’s been very intense. You were really attached to her, and it’s hard to let go, specially when she is telling you that she loves you and wants to be safe in your arms… but then tells you she can’t. You naturally want to hold on to the good part, and try to help her overcome whatever stops you from being with you fully. You did give your all, you were considerate and loving and supportive… but it wasn’t enough for her, because for someone with trauma, even the perfect love isn’t enough…

Do give yourself time, but also try to address the feeling of being rejected as a person, because it creates an additional layer of suffering. Makes it harder for you to heal and let go.

I hope she does get herself together because I do care for her a lot and feel like one day maybe she would be able to give it a real crack again.

I hope too that she realizes she has to do something to help herself. And that she can help herself  – that she doesn’t have to be the victim of her condition forever.

I am going to read through this topic again so I can fully process it all and hopefully it speeds up the healing and let’s me see the facts clearly.

Thanks a lot for all your help again Tee. What a messed up situation it was, I’ll send any updates in the future.

You’re very welcome, Adam. I am glad this was helpful to you. Please do take care of yourself. And yes, post whenever you feel the need. Wishing you healing and to get stronger real soon!

Hi Adam,

I think you handled your conversation with her wonderfully and with lots of self-awareness. For example this is a great and mature response:

She said she wants to talk and wants me in her life but I told her she needs to show me she wants me in her life and take action on it.

Yes, absolutely! She needs to show she is willing to break the push-and-pull cycle, and do something towards healing her own trauma.

She was the one that said we need to move on so I agreed and said I’m moving on, and that she needs to fix things. I gave her the treatment she gave me and she got upset!

Wow, good that you’ve noticed it! So you stood up for yourself, for your own best interests, and she got upset. Yeah, because so far when she would unjustifiably accuse you of hurting her, you would always end up apologizing and reassuring her you didn’t mean anything bad, and that you do love her.

Also, she was the one who was controlling the relationship because she was coming and going, and you’d always accept her back. True, she would apologize for overreacting, but then a short while later she would do it again. She would switch to this other, traumatized personality, and she would be unreachable again. You were accepting it and enduring it, having a lot of understanding, but she had no intention to work on herself.

So it was like she can do whatever she wants – you’d always be there for her when she chooses to go back and re-start the cycle. But now that you told her she can’t just go back without making some changes in herself – that’s what got her upset. You set a boundary for her, and she doesn’t like it.

After many messages she finally said this; If I’m being honest about what I want selfishly I’d be in your arms right now where I feel safe and comfortable and everything feels normal and I’d be happy. I say selfishly because I know that I will only result in more pain for both of us when we go through what we’ve gone through all over again.

Yeah, because if she doesn’t want to work on herself, it will cause more unnecessary pain for both of you. Specially for you, who are on the receiving end of her traumatic response.

She went on to say she loves me but is sorry she can’t give me what I want, taking both our best interest in mind. It’s like she is holding off pushing me away fully though and she doesn’t want me to push her away either but I have to cut ties I think.

Yes, when she tells you she can’t give you what you want, she’s telling you she doesn’t want to work on herself. She wants the status quo to continue, to be able to go back to you whenever she feels like, without taking any steps towards her healing.

Yes I agree she just wants a shoulder to try on it feels like, but then at times she doesn’t want to talk.

Well, I am thinking now that sometimes her not wanting to talk was a part of manipulation. As in, giving you the silent treatment for “hurting” her. Because that was the worst for you – when she cut you off and didn’t want to talk. Another reason why she sometimes couldn’t talk could have been the dissociation, i.e. the trauma response. So maybe she wasn’t doing that on purpose. But sometimes, it seems to me it was a way to “punish” you for what she felt was you hurting her.

It feels like she doesn’t want too loose me in case it doesn’t work out elsewhere or she feels ready one day.

Yes, I think you’re seeing it well. She wants you as a backup, she wants to have you attached to her, in case she needs you.

She is telling you she wants to be “safe in your arms”, but in the very next moment she won’t feel safe in you arms and will want to leave. And she wants you to accept that dynamic. Basically, to be “on standby” for her, whenever she needs it. Which is very selfish.

Neither of these are fair on me, I am starting to notice how much better I deserved.

I am so glad you’re starting to notice it, and starting to set a boundary to protect yourself.

I have to cut ties I think. This is such a messed up situation.

Yes, I think so too. If you stay friends with her, you will be her shoulder to cry on. But even worse, I think you’ll be tempted to get into relationship again, because it’s hard to hear such sweet words like she’s been telling you, and stay indifferent. So I think she could easily sway you into the relationship again, which would drag you to the “worst place in your life”, as you said.

Or if you can stay strong and resist her charms, you’d be still spending a lot of time and energy listening to her complaints, trying to help her, but with no real progress. So I agree that the best would be to cut ties, because it seems to me that nothing good can come out of you staying attached to her.

Hey SereneWolf 🙂

Yes and I’ve tried but perhaps she had even deeper trust issues than me, so she didn’t wanted to share anything with a therapist (Or a stranger as she’d like to address)

That’s interesting… since therapists are vowed to confidentiality and they are non-judgmental per definition. But some people are like that with authority figures, and maybe a therapist in her mind meant a  judgmental authority figure, and it scared her… But it could have also been an excuse, because if someone rejects therapy, and hasn’t even given it a try, it usually means they don’t really want to change in a deeper way…

Yes I think so, Also because I’m kind of bored of texting but if I rethink in person I’m not that much better. So I guess I just need more “in-person” practice.

Well texting all day (i.e. making it the only way of communication) is tiring, but this would have been more like a check-in text, just to show you’re thinking of her. And since you were at your parents’ place, you had an excuse why it would have been only a short text 🙂

I did tried it. I’ve tried to encourage for voice notes since it’s time-saving for both of us and also more connecting? And seems like she’s okay with it.

I am not sure it’s more connecting, but it’s a good replacement for texts. If you want more connection, a phone call would be much better, in my opinion…

But yeah she’s definitely not a person who forgives you easily. I could notice that from her tone of voice

Okay, but she could have texted you too, if she was so keen. So it’s like she expected you to text, and was angry when you didn’t, but she hasn’t texted you either. She only admitted later that she wanted to, but then deleted it. I mean, I understand she is upset and feels like you don’t care, but she could have texted you first…

That I’m not ready for this and she’s gonna turn her back anytime.

Well, your fear is still strong. That’s why you rather play it cool and uninterested. You’re doing the avoidant pattern. And it could lead to breakup with time, specially if she expects a normal level of interest and dedication from the guy. And I guess she does, that’s why she is so upset. So yeah… you’d need to decide what you want. Do you want to challenge your fear, or you want to succumb?

Hmm so for expectations like this it’s just a perfectionist inside me trying to “fix” others? So as we talked I still need to work on my acceptance part gradually.

The perfectionist likes to fix people whom he sees inferior than him in some way. It’s more like a defense mechanism, because if you see the person as inferior and in need of fixing, then you feel safe because you feel you’re above them (“better” than them) and therefore, they won’t judge you.

Thinking about your 3-yr long LDR, perhaps the perfectionist in you needed to receive praise and validation from her, because this is something you were missing as a child. But it could be that she didn’t give you too much praise and validation, because you said she often sabotaged your meetings, didn’t listen to your advice etc?

So I am thinking now that your perfectionist fixer is possibly a reaction to not receiving praise and validation from your parents? And trying to get it now in romantic relationships?

Remember that I told you about the interview? Turns out I didn’t got that job. But Now that rejection made me feel like no matter what I want more responsible fully remote position like that. So I started to apply and got more rejections and now I feel even more down

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that interview… sorry you didn’t get the job. But then again, at least you’re clear now with what you want: a position with more responsibility, fully remote. How come you’re sticking to fully remote btw? So you’re more flexible with where you live?

And nowadays I’m also getting crazy afternoon slumps. Like after 1PM I can’t of think anything but eating and sleeping. I’m taking more than 2-3 hours long naps and then be like oh day is already ended.. So now I’m mostly finishing my work at late night. It’s been like a month! So kinda it turned into a habit.

Alright, so you’re doing that Mon-Friday, during working hours? You’re having long naps in the afternoons, and then you need to work late to finish your tasks, right? Perhaps you can introduce a short walk (or even a bike ride) in the afternoon, to freshen you up?

And yeah I also want to go deeper into CTPSD things we’ve talked about if you don’t mind

Sure, no problem…

Dear Caroline,

Yes. I wouldn’t explain it better! I did not understand my feelings then. I am having a hard time understanding it now. But this conversation really helped me to clear some things up.

I am glad this is helping you! Yes, the way you described it it does seem like you were hurt, and the fact that you admitted you hooked up with someone else twice was your way of revenge, to express your anger and hurt.

Instead of saying how I was feeling I wanted to hurt her

I think you’re seeing it pretty clearly now…

She was living with her again but she told me they don’t have sex or anything. And they did not have in months. I believed her but.. I cannot imagine this to be true, honestly. I don’t want to accuse her though..but if that girl loved her and tried to hurt herself, wouldn’t she ever try to kiss her?

It’s possible they didn’t have sex, but only lived together out of necessity. Because she lost her job and didn’t have anywhere to go. And then her ex tried to hurt herself, so she kind of got stuck with her for a while. But she could have told you that, explained things to you, rather than cut you off. You didn’t know what was going on, and so you concluded she didn’t care about you. She too was jealous, insecure about your love, playing games (posting pix with her ex), so it wasn’t a mature behavior at all. And you said she was into drugs too, so it was really messy…

I want to talk to her, feel what I felt at that time when I was with her.. because that was the only and the last time I felt so strongly in love. (Even though I fell in love with a guy later but it wasn’t the same)

I don’t think I would like to get back with her, to be in relationship. I don’t want to ruin the life that I have and I don’t think she is stable.

I want to have sex though, I have been fantasizing about this a lot and I think it would be more than just one time.

Okay, so you’d like to feel passion and excitement – something you don’t feel in your current relationship?

Is there a way to renew passion in your current relationship? You say your relationship turned into routine (there is no romance, spontaneous meetings, happiness. It’s more like adult life. Routine). Is it because your girlfriend is not interested in romance and would maybe find it silly?

I am putting the stress on your current relationship, because it seems there is something missing there, and you daydreaming about you ex is just a symptom. You said you never fell strongly in love with your current girlfriend… so maybe that’s something to look at?

Dear Caroline,

you’re welcome.

Writing some of it here helps me to organize my thoughts (although it seems like I am more guilty so it is not very comfortable to realize )

Now that you’ve written some more details of what happened, I don’t think it was only you who sabotaged it, but she had a big responsibility in it as well. She was suspicious of you and tried to make you jealous, although you said you ended your previous relationship. She was still hanging out with her ex, posting pictures of them together. And then “her ex tried to hurt herself and they lived together again. I tried to text her, call her but she did not want to talk to me, said I was selfish. It got really hard to communicate.”

So basically, her ex blackmailed her by trying to hurt herself, and she then took her back in. And then she didn’t want to talk to you and even told you you were selfish. You were hurt, and rightly so, because she shut you out of her life and got back with her ex, without explaining what was going on. And in that hurt, you hooked up with someone else.

So maybe it was more like revenge, you feeling hurt that she cut you off so rudely from her life? Also, you probably believed she doesn’t care about you (again, rightly so, based on her behavior), and so you didn’t care much if you hurt her either. Would that explain what happened?

I thought she cheated on me too, but seeing her reaction and how hurt she looked.. I can assume she never cheated on me.

Well, maybe she didn’t cheat on you, but she was living with her ex and didn’t want to communicate with you (and called you selfish for reaching out). So she wasn’t exactly showing any signs that she was interested in you or a relationship with you. So I understand why you felt bad about the situation, and then feeling hurt, you did what you did…

I wrote couple of words to her, did not send it. I sent it to myself on social media with a plan to send it to her, although I know I shouldn’t and probably won’t. But I really would like to do it, to talk to her, call her.

What exactly are you hoping to achieve by reaching out? Would you like to get back together with her? Or you just want some closure?

Hi Adam,

thanks a lot, I really appreciate what you said!

I was never confident with women growing up, but I am now. I’ve always had trouble reading peoples emotions and especially females, I know they are complex individuals.

Again, I’ve got to ask about your childhood: how was your relationship with your mother (or other significant women in your life) while growing up? (if you don’t mind answering)

I am glad you’re now more confident around women!

I think I should understand that I can’t save people it’s just hard for me because it is what I want to do! I want to help others.

It’s a great quality – to want to help others. You could do that in the context of humanitarian work or any other arena, and I think it would be greatly appreciated. However, it seems you’re attracted to helping/saving your romantic partner, which is a very different dynamic. Saving the woman you love. It is often related to the dynamic in our childhood, where the child wants to “save” their overworked mother, for example. Sorry for bringing up your childhood again, but I wonder if such dynamic is familiar to you? (again, you don’t need to answer if you don’t feel comfortable)

You are right with the the comment about being co-dependent but I do think we were compatible at the end of the day. The connection was there for sure. However maybe we weren’t compatible in what we were looking for in a relationship, due to her trauma.

So compatibility (in terms of similar interests, values etc) was probably not the issue. Rather, it was her trauma that prevented her from having a healthy, committed relationship.

I think my main issue is just getting invested and attached, as I said I give most people my all if I feel the connection.

Yes, I think the problem might be that you get invested and attached to a certain type of women (those who are in need, and need to be “saved”), who might not be able to reciprocate your love. At least it was the case with this girl. I don’t know about your previous girlfriends – you said they too suffered from anxiety, but you had a different dynamic with them. It’s like you wanted to get away from them, whereas you wanted to stay with this girl.

I know over time I will get better and love myself again. I have high hopes for my future self.

That’s a great attitude! I too believe you can overcome the current obstacles and get out of this with greater knowledge of yourself, and also emotionally more resilient!

Hi Adam,

you’re very welcome, thank you for your kind words. I am really glad this is helping you.

My desire to help others has just been thrown away.

Yeah, it seems you feel rejected not only as her romantic partner, but perhaps also as a person, as a friend?

I honestly do believe it is my fault a bit because I failed to get her the proper help she needs, maybe my persistence was too much for her. I know there isn’t anything wrong with me yet I do ponder of the what ifs. What could I have done differently etc.

You were suggesting therapy, but she refused. She said it hasn’t worked before, so it won’t now either. You couldn’t have done more in that respect. And you were very supportive whenever she had those thoughts of wanting to leave. You told her you’re proud of her for staying, for conquering those impulses. Also, you said you always helped her calm down after her seizures and that she felt safe with you in that respect.

When someone is suffering from PTSD, you can’t really avoid them being triggered, because even the smallest thing can be a trigger. So no, you couldn’t have done more. Thinking that she would have stayed had you done something different is an illusion. It’s not you who drove her away, but her own trauma, her own internal battle…

It’s hurts to hear she doesn’t feel safe in the relationship.

Maybe that’s not even true that she didn’t feel safe. What’s for sure is that she had thoughts of leaving almost all the time. She had thoughts or feelings that you’re not the right person for her, or that you want to hurt her and put her down. She had those thoughts and feelings not because you were mistreating her, but because of her trauma, because she was interpreting everything through the lens of her trauma. She saw you and your intentions in a distorted way – due to her trauma. That’s why she left, not because of you were bad to her.

I worry about the future for this reason, what if the next person she changes for? What if she feels comfortable getting the help she needs and works on herself for them and for her? I would be upset if that’s the case.

Right… because that would mean (in your interpretation) that you were not good enough. That it was your fault after all. Which to me indicates a core belief, or a core wound, of not feeling good enough. That someone else would be better and more worthy than you…

I don’t know what will happen but I feel like now the more we drift apart the more she tells herself it was me that was making her feel what she felt.

Maybe, but you don’t know that. Maybe she is blaming you, maybe she is not. But the biggest problem that I see is that you are blaming yourself. And that causes you the greatest hurt…

It wasn’t fair on me at all, she dragged me through the mud.

No, it wasn’t, you didn’t deserve it. It seems to me a part of you believes you deserved it – because you were not good enough. (I honestly do believe it is my fault a bit because I failed to get her the proper help she needs, maybe my persistence was too much for her.) See how that works? A part of you is angry with her, but another part is “It’s my fault. She wouldn’t have done it had I been different.” And that’s an illusion.

I have obviously been quite obsessive and struggling to move on and let go. I have driven past hers a few times and this is how I know she has been away. My psych said she did the same thing once and it is a coping mechanism. Also the stalking I have been doing, social media is so toxic and has made it harder for me.

Well, that’s understandable that it’s hard to let go. It’s only been a couple of weeks or so. And since you’re the abandoned party, no wonder you’re still attached to her, you want to know what’s going on with her, has she found someone new…

I’ve almost been expecting to drive past hers and see some new persons car or something similar, like I’m almost looking for a reason to move on and feel no pity.

Yeah, I understand, it’s like if she moved on so quickly, then you’d be even angrier with her and you hope it would help you get over her more quickly. But like this, not knowing what she’s up to, you’re not that angry with her but you’re more like blaming yourself, feeling guilty.

And I think this – blaming yourself, feeling guilty, feeling you’re not good enough because your efforts have failed – that’s what’s making it so hard for you. I mean, it adds an additional layer of pain, which shouldn’t be there…

Let me know what you think?