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  • in reply to: Does he like me? #412730
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Katrine,

    I am so glad that your Christmas went well, even better than you expected! And that you’ve been going out with your colleagues and that they have a genuine interest to hang around with you. They don’t reject you but in fact welcome you with open arms. That’s so precious and reassuring! And you even managed to do some small talk with the guy you like and didn’t get too anxious. These are all very good news. I am happy for you!

    Your sister spreading lies about you is a hallmark of a narcissist. You wrote in another thread (Feeling betrayed), in April 2021, that you had two close friends, and one of them was spreading lies about you to the other. As a result, they stopped being friends with you, and instead became best friends themselves:

    I had a close friend. We had been good friends for years, and never had an argument or so. But then that changed. We had made plans to meet up, but on the day I had a meltdown due to stress. I was so stressed out like just crying my eyes out. So I cancelled, and she said okay no worries. Then over the next few months I couldn’t really make plans with her, she kept backing out. I then called her to say if it’s about the plans that I cancelled I’m so sorry that i did it on the day and cutting it so close. She got angry and said it wasn’t that I cancelled, it was the fact that i did it on purpose to deliberately hurt her because I had been angry with her for a month. I hadn’t been angry with her at all or anyting like that. I told her the truth of what had happened that day, that caused me to have a meltdown. She didn’t believe me. She said a friend of mine had revealed my vicious plan to her and that she thought she had a right to know about it. I was in chock. Someone i trusted told lies to her behind my back, and my friend believed her over me. They have now become best friends over this, and I have been left an emotional wreck.

    So this friend of yours who revealed your “vicious plan” to the other friend and caused the friendship to fall apart – was she influenced by your sister? Was it your sister who first spread lies about you to one friend, and then this friend repeated those lies to your other friend?

    I remember that during the pandemic her and her boyfriend would drive the two hours to my parents (where I was living at home, after losing my job and everything) and say hi to us and then go for lunch at a girls house that I am no longer friends with because of my sister telling lies about me. Being exluded by the two of the closests people in my life (only had two friends and my sister back home) and for them to become best friends because of my sisters lies about me is so hurtful I can’t explain it. And seing my sister open a present from her on Christmas eve did hurt, but I maneged to not get too emotional.

    This is horribly hurtful, and I am so sorry about it, Katrine. To lose two close friends because of your sister’s lies. But it also shows those two friends have some issues and blind spots, if they could believe your sister so easily. You did say that one of them is diagnosed with BPD, so that could be a reason why she believed your sister.

    People with BPD are very black-and-white thinking, and so I can imagine she felt “rejected” by you when you cancelled the meeting, and believed that it was a proof that you “don’t like her”. When another person told her lies about you (that indeed, you’re a bad person and that you cancelled on purpose to deliberately hurt her), she easily fell for it, because she wanted to believe it. That’s how she saw the world – either with her or against her.

    only had two friends and my sister back home

    You had only 2 close friends, and they were also friends with your sister, right? You didn’t have friends independently of your sister? If so, it’s quite possible that they were all influenced and manipulated by her, and eventually served as her “flying monkeys”. Flying monkeys are people who believe the narcissist and blame the victim. Perhaps the girl who angrily called you after you didn’t come to meet-your-sister’s-boyfriend event is one of those 2 friends whom you’ve lost since?

    I am so glad that you’re making new friends now, independently of your sister. And that they are good people who appreciate you and have good intentions towards you!

     

    in reply to: Lack of respect or cheating? #412699
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Hello,

    you’re welcome and thank you for your blessings!

    I am so glad that he hasn’t managed to fool you or distract you in the meanwhile, and that you’re on track with packing and moving!

    Also, I am very glad that your daughters took the announcement very well, and are actually excited about starting a new chapter away from him. I imagine they don’t particularly like him?

    I can tell you that yesterday was the happiest I’ve felt in a few years.

    No wonder, since you have finally seen through him and decided to free yourself from his abuse (manipulation, guilting me, projection, love bombing… when I’m around him I feel like I’m being poisoned.).

    But Im not affected by them

    His abuse and manipulation don’t have power over you any longer. You saw through him and his words lost power. You don’t believe him when he says you’re a bad person. His words have zero, or almost zero weight to you, and that’s why you feel free!

    I’ve realized fully now that he’s been an abuser all this time and I know I’ll have to heal from that.

    Yes, you’ll need some healing, but it might not be such an arduous task for you like it was for his first wife, because you have done a lot of personal growth during your marriage, and you’ve grown a lot. At the beginning of this thread you were already willing to let him go because you said you’ve tried everything but nothing worked (I pretty much don’t have anything left and am ready to move forward with my life in peace.).

    So it seems to me you’ve come a long way in the last 3 years. You’ve made yourself strong enough to leave. And when you’ve realized that he has a NPD, everything fell into place and it only confirmed what you already suspected: that he isn’t willing to change. This only strengthened your resolve to leave ASAP.

    So I think you might be well prepared – mentally, emotionally and also from a practical point of view – to start a new chapter. But of course, you can’t just press the switch and forget all about him and his abuse. It will take time till you process it all.

    Dr. Ramani is a great resource on all things narcissism. She has a youtube channel “DoctorRamani”, with hundreds of videos. So if you need an expert opinion, I highly recommend her videos.

    Wishing you further success with moving in the following days!

     

    in reply to: Feels like Time is passing too fast #412698
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    Merry Christmas to you too! I am fine, thank you.

    Well my TSH levels aren’t within limits 6.67 so (Ref Range – 0.4 and 4.5) (mU/L) That’s why I started the treatment

    So it’s hypothyroidism… could be autoimmune disease too (Hashimoto syndrome). That’s why I’d check it on the ultrasound as well, just to be sure.

    Okay so I spent some time with my parents and I can safely say they’re aren’t like before.

    I am glad to hear that!

    I used to think they just prefer to judge me all the time. But I think it’s because of the past patterns I’m thinking like that and I need their approval and I don’t want to disappoint them.

    Yes, it’s because of the old patterns – they did judge you quite a lot in the past, and it sticks. It gets “engraved” into our brain…

    But another thing is that now I don’t crave any validation from them. Which I think little better

    But I do feel like fear of disappointment is still there

    So you feel you don’t need their approval and validation any more, but you do fear you’d disappoint them?

    Nowadays I’m feeling emotional and kind of anxious as well (I can’t think of a reason why) So I’m just telling myself to take a long breath and look how far you’ve come and be proud of that and take little steps from there…Everything will be alright

    That’s a good way to soothe yourself. You’re having lots of compassion for yourself. And you’re telling yourself that everything will be fine, which is a good way to reassure yourself. So you’re doing a great job parenting your inner child!

    No. His skills are more you can say face to face. And In email he’s not able to put up with well pointed like me.

    Great! Glad you can manage it so well!

    Because all person’s situations are scenarios are different and that’s why trying different things and implementation that’s what also gives you the confidence for that work you’re doing or the goal you’re going towards

    Yes, I need to try it and see what works and what doesn’t… for me.

     

    in reply to: Going through a separation #412697
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Dan,

    glad you have family around and can spend time with them. Also that you can talk to your mother… is she supportive?

    I am very glad that your suicidal thoughts didn’t last, and that you’re feeling a bit better now. Also, that you’re thinking about taking up martial arts again! I guess it’s a good way to build up not only your physical strength, but also mental power, i.e. the feeling of power in your own life. At least that’s what I associate martial arts with… perhaps it’s different for you?

    If you have a full-time job, perhaps having a part-time job on the weekends would be too much? I mean it would leave you little time for resting and doing the things you enjoy. But if that part-time job is something you enjoy, then it seems like a good idea.

    Yes, I had a pleasant and peaceful Christmas, and an extraordinarily warm one. Very far from white Christmas 🙂 Thank you for asking!

     

    in reply to: Going through a separation #412616
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Dan,

    merry Christmas! How are you coping? I hope you’re not alone, but do have some supportive company to spend this time with…

    in reply to: Does he like me? #412615
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Katrine,

    merry Christmas! How are you holding up?

    in reply to: Lack of respect or cheating? #412562
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Hello,

    how have you been?

    I’ve been watching some videos about narcissism and came across a great one, by a clinical psychologist Dr. Ramani. She talks about another manipulative technique narcissists use when they want to win the person back: hoovering. They “hoover” you, i.e. suck you back into the relationship by telling you how precious you are and that they’ve finally realized it, and to give them another chance. It’s kind of a love bombing, only after the relationship is over.

    Your husband might try that too, so I just thought to warn you.

    The video is on youtube, it’s titled “What it’s like to break up with a narcissist“, and the publisher is MedCircle. If you enter the search phrase “what it’s like to break up with a narcissist medcircle”, it will show up first in the list of results.

     

    in reply to: Feels like Time is passing too fast #412335
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    good you went to check your TSH level. My advice is to do an ultrasound too, just to make sure there is no autoimmune disease. Although if your TSH is within limits, I guess the chance of autoimmune disease is lower too.

    I’d say more in private life but it’s lot better than before

    Alright, so you’re better at accepting people’s No, it doesn’t make you so angry any more. If you want to talk about it more, you’re welcome.

    Yes definitely. And the thing is that I think after getting an MBA degree I’d be even more confident because right now without bachelor’s or master’s I’m on Manager position. So it does feel inadequate to other people. Because there are some people who finished their Masters and working under me so…

    I understand…. yes I guess it’s beneficial to have a university degree if you’re a boss in a tech company. And having an MBA is an additional big plus!

    I started taking care of my inner child… with my childhood photo also I talk to my inner child and try to compassionate with him

    Excellent! You said that your inner child is trying to get your parents’ approval (Yes exactly and that’s what my inner child is trying as well.). Can you recognize when what happens? And do you have a way to soothe yourself (your inner child), tell him he is good enough etc?

    Yes the marketing manager. He’s super persuasive. Definitely like a wall street sells guys. With sweet talkin’ he just makes you say Yes… But what I do now is that I don’t schedule lot of meeting with him. Instead, just make him deal with my assistant and then later I answer him via email. In email writings he can’t win against me

    Smart! Reducing face-to-face contact, when he might “sweet talk” you into accepting some unfavorable things for you and your team…  and instead, communicating via email. Cool! And so he’s not too pushy with you in emails?

    Hmm I see nowadays social media algorithms are very strict. So you have to be consistent with your content otherwise algorithms just put you way out from the platform.

    Yes, that’s a great advice. I know, consistency is one of the key things. If you’re not active all the time, you get forgotten and the algorithm skips you…

    And thank you for those two links. I love what it says in one of the articles: “You’ll see that the real project is the best teacher. … In a long run, one mediocre project is worth a few books and online courses. Learn from your own mistakes.”

    Yes, I’ve realized that in the meanwhile…

     

    in reply to: Does he like me? #412314
    Tee
    Participant

    Sorry, I made a mistake in one sentence. It should read like this:

    Your parents excused her behavior, and they conditioned you to excuse it too.

    in reply to: Does he like me? #412313
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Katrine,

    she called my mom and got really angry that we didn’t drive the two hours down to celebrate. But we had already celebrated her birthday so we didn’t see any need for us to do it again.

    Well yes, earlier she said she didn’t invite you to the party at her place because she would celebrate separately within the family circle. And then she got angry at you and your parents because you didn’t come to a party to which you weren’t invited in the first place?? Wow, that’s something! That’s some serious manipulation. It cannot be explained away by her being in pain or anything like that. It’s pure manipulation, if you ask me. It’s abusive.

    How did your parents react to  it? Have they still tried to excuse her behavior?

    I have to deal with a lot of feelings around betrayal when it comes to her. She even tried talking my parents into having my cat put down (I’m a huge animal lover) she has allergy so the couple of times the would come to visit we had to clean the entire house and keep my cat in another room. But she didn’t like that.

    That’s quite heartless in fact. Because you did clean the house before she arrived and put the cat in another room. But it wasn’t enough – she wanted your cat to be put down. It shows she has no empathy for you (or the cat). Very selfish and cruel.

    All this tells me, Katrine, that your sister has strong narcissistic tendencies. Whatever the cause is (whether her illness or something else), it seems to me that you were subject to narcissistic abuse by your sister, and your parents were her enablers. They excused her narcissistic abuse and accused you if you protested. You were put between the rock and the hard place – nowhere to go, nowhere to get compassion and understanding.

    She [your mother] is still in denial about a lot of her behaviour (exactly like I was) making excusses for her behaviour.

    Your parents excused her behavior, and they conditioned you to excuse it to this day. They didn’t defend you, and that’s why you believe that nobody cares about you. Because the two most important people in your life didn’t care about you (I mean, they behaved like they didn’t care about you – that was the net effect of their behavior, even if they didn’t mean to hurt you).

    And the third most important person in your life – your sister – was abusing you. And you had a mean grandmother too, who told you that having a bird pet constitutes animal abuse! So there was no one in your family to protect you.

    No wonder you have such a strong anxiety and believe that no one cares about you. Because it was unfortunately true for your immediate family. You were a collateral victim of your sister’s illness and her narcissism. The problem is that your parents didn’t recognize the narcissism, and attributed her behavior to her illness. And so they became her enablers.

    Your father seems to be still enabling your sister, i.e. accusing you and excusing her. Whereas your mother is now at least willing to hear you out:

    My mom is listening way more to me now. She is still in denial about a lot of her behaviour (exactly like I was) making excusses for her behaviour. But she has started showing more understanding to my situation

    So your mother is still in denial about your sister’s manipulative behavior – she is still excusing it. But at least she shows some empathy towards you, unlike your father. That’s good. You can tell her (when you’re alone with her) that you find your sister’s behavior manipulative. As a glaring example you can mention your sister’s birthday: that first she didn’t invite you and then was angry when you didn’t show up.

    So you may try to talk to your mother and help her see how your sister’s behavior is very selfish and manipulative (regardless of what caused it). And you can tell her it has hurt you a lot over the years, and that you don’t want to excuse it any longer. And that’s why you’re keeping your distance. You can then see how she will react to that – whether she will keep defending your sister, or will realize some things.

    I’m gonna take your advise about dealing with my sister. I am only going home for a few days and I don’t want to spend them dysregulated and anxious

    Yes, try to not take your sister’s comments to heart – be like teflon. Don’t feel bad about yourself, even if she tries to make you feel bad or provokes you. It won’t be easy, since you still have some healing to do, but make the first steps. Try not to be upset by her nastiness and her sense of entitlement – rather, expect it, be prepared for it, and don’t react to it. Stay calm as much as possible.

    You can post here and tell us how it is going. I am rooting for you, Katrine. And I too wish you pleasant, as calm as possible holidays, centered in yourself, in the knowing that you are a good and loving person, and that your worth doesn’t depend on what your sister thinks and says about you. If it helps you, you may repeat to yourself “I am free from her influence”, or simply “I am lovable, I am free”.

     

    in reply to: Does he like me? #412248
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Katrine,

    it also seems to me that your sister uses other people to promote her agenda, so to speak. Because you said one of her friends called you after you couldn’t make it to the meet-her-boyfriend event, and accused you of being passive aggressive because you didn’t come. So it’s not that your sister called you directly, but she probably spoke badly of you and convinced her friend to call you on her behalf. Her friend was her “emissary” and acted on her behalf. That’s called triangulation.

    It seems she is doing it with your father too: she called him a week after her boyfriend’s birthday party and told him how upset she (and others) were with you, and that there would be consequences. Again, she didn’t call you directly, but she used your father to be her mouthpiece.

    So it seems to me that she likes presenting her as the victim and turning other people against you. And your father has unfortunately played to her tune, it seems, because he took her side in conflicts. For example, when she accused you of using the wrong tone of voice, claiming that that was the reason for her tantrum, your father believed her and accused you as well (my dad refused to believe that there wasn’t anything in the tone of my voice). He didn’t tell her something like “throwing a tantrum is not an acceptable behavior, even if your sister used a wrong tone of voice.” He automatically took her side.

    And I believe it was regularly like that, because you said he was emotionally detached most of the times. Such people prefer to be left out of conflicts and just enjoy their “peace”. So I can imagine he often blamed you for disrupting that peace by “upsetting” your sister. He wasn’t interested in deeper reasons behind the conflict, he just wanted “peace” in the house, and in his mind it was you who was responsible for upsetting his peace. Would you say this is how he behaved: detached, and then accusing you if there was conflict?

    Your mother was probably different, but maybe she too expects you to be on good terms with your sister, no matter how your sister treats you? (my mom was devasteted when i told her i am keeping my distance now.) Has she shown any empathy, any understanding for your side of the story, or she blames you for wanting to keep your distance?

     

    in reply to: Does he like me? #412214
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Katrine,

    I think I understand the events now, just this bit I don’t get:

    No I wasn’t invited to her birthday everybody from my region was invited down to her place (they moved in together before this) but she excluded me under the pretext that we celebrate both her and my dads birthday together. So my parents didn’t see it as me being excluded but rather a practical thing. My sister never wanted to share her birthday party with him before.

    Does it mean that she celebrated her birthday twice: once with her friends and her boyfriend (an event to which she didn’t invite you), and another time with your father, when you were there too?

    It seems she didn’t really want you on her birthday, and to be honest, I think it’s better if you don’t have too much contact, since she tends to accuse you and blame you for the things you haven’t done, and you get bad anxiety around her. So it’s best you stay away, although it’s painful, I know. Specially since, as you say, she has a child now and it would be nice to be close to your nephew and spend time with him, and them as a family.

    But I wouldn’t want to be around her either, if all I get is guilt-tripping and accusations. That being said, I think it would be important for you to process through some stuff so you don’t get so anxious around her any more, i.e. that her words can’t hurt you so much any more. Because right now, you get very easily triggered around her and your anxiety spikes (you had a panic attack when she accused you of not coming to your nephew’s christening on purpose), or you react with anger and resentment, and then people judge you for your reactions.

    So you’d need to learn how to better self-regulate when around her. I think the key thing would be not to believe what she is saying about you. Not to believe her when she says that you are a bad, selfish person. You would need to know that you’re a good, well-meaning person, so that when she starts spilling her accusations, you can just ignore it. That would be Number 1.

    Also, I think you should accept that your sister might never change her opinion of you (she might even have some narcissistic tendencies, or her illness made her very self-centered). So when she tries to guilt-trip you into doing what she wants, that you don’t give in. You don’t try to please her so she would think better of you. Perhaps you’re already doing this part – you have stopped trying to please her and you’re paying more attention to your own needs and your own health.

    If you know her character and her opinion of you, you can be better prepared and better shield yourself from her toxic remarks. You can take them more calmly, because you know they’re not true. You don’t need to quarrel with her and try to prove that she is wrong. It’s being like teflon (non-stick pan) – her remarks just fall off of you, they don’t stick. You don’t take them to heart, you don’t believe them. They go in one ear and out the other. It’s not easy to achieve, but I think this should be your goal.

    The more self-love you have, the less will her words hurt you. Her opinion of you won’t matter to you so much. You’ll be free.

    And then perhaps you’ll be able to be around her at certain family events, and it will cause you less anxiety. You’ll be able to behave more naturally with other people, such as your brother-in-law. If he still doesn’t like you, well then it’s his problem. But you will be more relaxed and won’t feel in such danger any more.

    Of course, it’s easier said than done, but that’s something to aim for, I think. Maybe before going home for Christmas this year, try to do affirmations (I am lovable, I am worthy), and also try to practice being like teflon. For example, you can imagine that she accuses you of something – how would you react? Can you remain calm, knowing that her words are not true?

     

    in reply to: Feels like Time is passing too fast #412188
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear SereneWolf,

    thanks for the tip, I’ll inquire about the Crizal lenses.

    Good to hear your therapist is a licensed one and has 5 year experience. And yes, working from the ground up, from the root chakra makes sense. And yes, humming can be useful for the thyroid gland, so that’s a good exercise too. But like you said, best if you have your thyroid checked (ultrasound plus bloodwork). If you need hormone supplementation, there’s medicine for that and can be regulated pretty easily.

    As for surrendering, you said: I mean I said for my controlling behaviour and that I’m being hard on myself

    You did say earlier that you tend to get angry when someone says No to you:

    And for anger
    I found out that there is still some level of controlling behavior
    Because of someone says No I can’t directly accept it. It really opened my eyes that it’s just my expatiations towards them.

    Does this happen at work? Or in your private life?

    Yes It’s my last semester. After that I want to apply for a MBA because I found out that lot of management positions does require MBA so..

    Cool! Yes, a lot of management position require MBA, so I guess you’ll have even greater chances, i.e. a wider range of opportunities, with an MBA degree.

    I’ve just watched that video and two another about parents.
    I agree with him and also that dependency is not there so why let control? And the need for approval

    Right… the problem is that even though we are adults, there’s the still the inner child in us. And it’s the inner child that would do anything to get his parents’ love and approval. That’s why parents have such an influence (often a negative one) on us. But once we re-parent our inner child, this influence lessens and we’re much less affected by our parents’ expectations… and can really be adults. As Henry Cloud said, we can honor our parents, but not allow them to control our lives.

    I have to work with cross functional teams. So there are different managers for different teams but yeah this one is a good fella.

    Good, at least one good fella 🙂 How is it with others? Is there a specific person that is hard to work with, and you’re struggling to say No to him, or assert yourself?

    It was really good even though I’m still not that much good at presenting and storytelling. But they listened carefully. I’ve also talked about anonymous feedback and PR manager said they’ll start working on this documentations… So I hope to see what good changes it brings

    Excellent! You’re really quick in trying out new things and taking action – that’s admirable! I also hope it will bring positive changes and improve the overall work climate and employees satisfaction.

    Even though I don’t have much power in my hands rn but I do feel like there is lot things I can do where I can make a good impact.

    You do have some power as manager… so yes, you can make a positive impact. So just keep doing the great work that you’ve started!

    Thank you for your advice on becoming a freelancer. I’ve already implemented some of that, such as social media presence, a couple of years ago. But then the pandemic came and I got too worried about health, and it just paralyzed me. So now I need to start again, get active again…. and this is my plan for 2023.

    Thanks for all the great advice, specially what you said: don’t over research! Because I do tend to study everything in advance, taking way too much time on that, while procrastinating to take action. So this is one big thing that needs to change…

     

    in reply to: Lack of respect or cheating? #412187
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Hello,

    he did not handle this news well even though I’ve been telling him for over a month what my plans were. He then started trying to sell me on he would help me move my things , that we should do it “together” and that he was under the impression we would share a mover for the big things.

    Is he also moving out, on the same day? Because only in that case would it make sense to even talk about sharing the movers truck. But I think it’s only an attempt to mess up with your plans and delay them. It’s best if you do it alone, so he cannot throw a monkey wrench into your plans.

    When he suggested he help me move I did not agree but I didn’t fight it either. He was starting to get hostile so I just backed away.
    Bottom line is I’m not sure if I need to bring this detail up again with him before the actual day or leave it be.

    I think he started getting hostile because he is still trying to control the situation and prevent you from executing your plan. So I agree with anita: the best is to tell him as little as possible. Don’t even mention moving unless he brings it up, and simply wait for Jan 3. That way he has less chance of sabotaging it!

    Good luck in the following days, and post anytime if you need help!

     

    in reply to: Does he like me? #412138
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Katrine,

    I realize now that in September 2020, your sister’s boyfriend probably wasn’t invited to your house because your region was in complete lockdown, so he couldn’t even visit since he lived 2 hour drive away. She was panicking about that – that he would leave her because they can’t see each other. And then she was additionally triggered when she wanted to invite some people to your house, and you tried to limit it because you were sick. And that’s when she had that tantrum…. Is that what happened?

    I hope I got the rest of the events right.

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