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Dear OrangeHeart,
good! I am glad it didn’t overwhelm you and that you feel calmer now (and no, you absolutely didn’t overwhelm me – no worries 🙂 )
I just need to figure out what to do! It’s really not a relationship I want to just throw away but I really can’t see a way to improve this… I think I need to take some time to myself! Thanks so much!
You are very welcome. Any time you need to vent or have any doubts or questions, please don’t hesitate to post.
Wish you well, and take care!
TeeParticipantDear Tineoidea,
I mentioned before that once they got together, her criticism of me switched from our solvable relationship problems to “my character” and how I “abused” and “tortured” him (without any proof or explanations given).
Right, so there were things she didn’t like about you. Have you discussed those before your “friend” came into the picture? If so, how did you react to her criticism?
TeeParticipantDear Ashmitha,
Everyone around him says he is a really caring person and a great guy, and in my head I’m like why wouldn’t I want to be with someone like that?
From what you shared here, he hasn’t been a caring person towards you. We’ve explored all that before. You’re now again questioning yourself instead of realizing that you are not the problem, but he is.
I like being pursued by a man and not vice-versa, which may be an ego issue on my part.
You just want the guy to show interest in you beyond sex. It’s not an ego issue on your part but a normal expectation.
I’m just bad at being vulnerable and letting my walls down out of fear of being hurt.
You have been vulnerable with him, you told him what you need from him, you opened up. What was his reaction? First, he said it’s better you break up because he isn’t mature enough. Now he has introduced a couple of phone calls into your weekly routine. Anything else beyond that? How did he change compared to how he was before the breakup?
Dear Ashmitha, you’re blaming yourself again, as if something is wrong with you for not being able to be happy with this guy. As I said, nothing is wrong with you. But you don’t believe it, and I think it’s because the inner child tells you differently. The child always blames themselves when the parent doesn’t love them. What I believe is happening now is that the little girl in you is blaming herself for not being lovable enough…
TeeParticipantDear OrangeHeart,
glad to hear you’re not offended! And you are very welcome.
I understand, seems I have a lot of work to do!
I’ve realized in the meanwhile that it might have been overwhelming to take this all in… How are you holding up? I am sorry if I overwhelmed you :\
TeeParticipantDear Tineoidea,
Even if she snaps back to reason and reaches out for me, I wonder if somebody like that could be a trustworthy partner for life, considering just how many times she betrayed me during a few weeks.
It’s a good question. It is strange how she could be so easily manipulated by someone whom she only knew online (btw, for how long did they know each other?). As if she didn’t know you at all, and trusted him more than she trusted you. I did ask you recently whether she perhaps wanted to extract more information about you from him, since he’s known you much longer than she did. But that’s probably not the case, since she knew you well enough? (She’s known me in and out for a long time, mentally, emotionally and physically).
And even if doubts arise, doesn’t it make sense to discuss them with your partner and closest friend instead of betraying him on the spot while fully switching to the side of your former abuser?
Yes, it makes sense, she should have talked to you instead of complaining to him. I wonder how much she actually trusted you and whether what he told her about you actually resonated with her? Maybe she agreed with him on certain things about you? Maybe she wasn’t honest with you and had reservations that you didn’t know about? That could explain why she so readily believed him.
Plus, she had issues with her brother, which additionally hooked her into trusting your former friend. But I think just the brother issue alone wouldn’t have been enough to so completely fool her. The only logical explanation to me is that she must have had reservations about you that she never shared with you before.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Tee.
TeeParticipantDear OrangeHeart,
Thanks for replying its good to know that someone agrees and I’m not just going mental!
You’re welcome, OrangeHeart. Your gut feeling is right and you’re not going mental by thinking that something’s not right with his behavior!
And my boyfriend now definitely isn’t on that level but maybe if things continue it will end up like that, I already just do anything he wants to keep him happy because it’s easier than dealing with the moods!
Right… that’s your main theme, actually: you’d rather tolerate abuse than stand up for yourself. And the reason is your mother being the bully, and you adopting the strategy of appeasing and pleasing her, rather than protesting.
I do think I have trauma from my ex which makes me scared of being controlled again
The main trauma is from your childhood, and I think that’s why you keep being attracted to people similar to your mother. Maybe this is surprising and offensive to hear (sorry for being so blunt), but it happens with all of us till we heal the original trauma. We repeat…. in various shapes and forms. Perhaps your previous ex was an outright narcissist and sociopath and he may have enjoyed torturing you (you didn’t say the latter, I am just assuming). Your current boyfriend might much more “meek”, and his controlling and manipulative behavior might stem from his insecurity.
Nevertheless, the result is the same – you feel like you need to suppress yourself so he wouldn’t be upset. And he can get upset super easily and then treats you badly. So you need to give up on yourself to stay in a relationship with him. And that’s pretty much what you needed to do with your mother (and what your father needed to do)…
he feels like I dont need him which must be hard but after my last relationship I cant need anyone! I thought wanting someone was worth a lot more than needing them! I feel like I’m in a relationship for him not with him at the minute…
Yes, he is the one who needs you – to control his moods, to make him feel better about himself, to make him feel in control. You have a mother role for him – you’re there for him to soothe him and make him happy, but he isn’t there for you. It’s an unequal relationship.
I thought wanting someone was worth a lot more than needing them!
Yes, it’s not good if one person is the caretaker, and the other the child in the relationship. If one just gives, and the other just takes.
TeeParticipantDear OrangeHeart,
Sorry I feel like im just on a rant now but I honestly feel like im losing my mind, I cant believe ive found myself in this situation. Again
I am glad you’ve shared because what he’s been doing is more than trying to control his environment to reduce his anxiety (what I assumed earlier). He has tried to come between you and your best friend, he badmouthed him, so you wouldn’t spend time with him. He gets offended and gives you the silent treatment when you speak to this same friend on the phone. This tells me he is possessive and jealous and willing to choose any means (even lying and manipulating) to stop you from interacting with your friend.
He is also hiding things from you, not telling you the whole truth, inventing things that never happened (gaslighting you), due to which you started questioning your sanity. He gives you a 2-day silent treatment even for washing the dishes at his place! This all shows a very difficult personality, manipulative, easily offended, controlling, possessive…
Now I just feel like it was done intentionally to put distance between us and it worked, and its annoyed me because my ex done the same thing but he was extremely controlling and manipulative and definitely on purpose!
What if your current boyfriend is similar? Maybe not on purpose, I mean maybe he cannot help himself, but still, the result is the same?
September 6, 2021 at 1:40 am in reply to: How can seek comfort in loss? How can I trust myself and my intuition? #385818TeeParticipantDear Miss.Lex,
I believe you did the right thing to ask for a break, because he admitted he still has feelings for his ex girlfriend and he’s heartbroken that she left him:
he shared that he was still heartbroken from a previous relationship (one in which he was ‘in love’ with the person)
a reason why he was unable to emotionally validate was because of how emotionally invested in this previous relationship
said he still wants to be with me only if I don’t make his situation about the heartbreak an issue
he feels like he still not over his past relationship
If he isn’t over his ex and maybe even wants her back, then naturally he isn’t capable of a deep, intimate relationship with you. Maybe he kept in touch with you after you left to another state because he felt less lonely and it felt good to have someone to talk to. Has he talked to you about his past relationship and his heartbreak? Because that too is a sign that the person isn’t over it and cannot really focus on their present relationship…
I communicated to him that that we should take a break with no communication until he has done more reflection on his feelings. I expressed that I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to stop talking to him, but it was not fair for me to have an open heart willing to provide unconditional emotional support while he does not due to a past feelings. My intention of a break with no contact was to allow the possibility to reconnect in a healthy way in the future — if he chooses to do so.
I think you did the right thing.
Now I am left here with feelings of disappointment and hurt. … I am sad. I know I should feel proud in standing up for myself (I’ve never done that before in romance) and also in communicating my needs instead of bottling them up due to fear of conflict. But I do not feel proud. I feel sadness because I feel like I lost something (our connection) while standing up for something else (me). I doubt I did the right thing.
This can have to do with some emotional wound of yours. Sometimes, as children, we believe we need to give up on ourselves to get the love from our parents or caretakers. Standing up for ourselves is not an option, because that means being abandoned by those we love (and depend on). Do you perhaps have such an experience?
- This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Tee.
TeeParticipantDear Tineoidea,
Plenty actually, and in fact she was a first-hand witness of his poor behavior and character, hell, she herself suffered from it. She knows that he caused me many troubles in the past. … I did warn her many times, she herself said that he does appear to be possessive when the whole circus began.
I am sorry to say this, but she reminds me of you, Tineoidea. This is what you said about her disregarding his abuse and going back for more:
I was intent on cutting him off since he simply refused to reason, apologize and own up, instead he kept doubling up on his abuse of her and made me lose more and more trust in him. Meanwhile, she kept wanting for things to work out, didn’t want me to lose an old friend, and so I kept trying to mediate.
The absurd thing here is that despite her being very aware of the situation and constantly voicing that interacting with him does her no good and that she should stop, she still kept doing it on and off, coming back bruised and in tears every time.This sounds exactly like what you’ve been doing in your friendship with his guy: disregarding the abuse and always going back to him, for the sake of loyalty. You didn’t want to lose an old friend, and she too didn’t want you to lose an old friend. She echoed your attitude, but then took it to the extreme, where she lost the sense of reality. You at least know you’re not the bad guy, you know who you are. But she doesn’t, remember? (“I don’t know myself”)
He couldn’t fool you into thinking that you are a bad friend and a bad person (although he tried to). But he could fool her. It’s not entirely your fault, because it was her who chose to go back for more, but you sort of opened the door, you allowed this guy to be your friend and be a part of your realm (and even your intimate relationship with your girlfriend) and ruin things.
In a previous post, you weren’t sure if you should “salvage the relationship”. Well, I hope you see why you shouldn’t, ever, unless he changes radically.
September 5, 2021 at 11:12 pm in reply to: My ex and I still love each other, but can’t be together #385815TeeParticipantDear Candice88,
it’s hard to be creative and make music when there’s someone else in the apartment with me.
But now when he doesn’t come to bed because he’s in his car on his phone for hours, or making music for hours, or in his garage until sunrise (all times he told me he’d come to bed “soon”), or late for anything, it just ends up hurting more since I’ve been forcing myself to be less calloused.
The only thing where I can understand him is that he wants to make music (because that’s his job and he likes it), and that he needs a private space (a garage) to do it. And perhaps also that he works best in the night because that’s when his inspiration comes. If he is a musician, these are usually the conditions, and I guess you can’t expect him to work 9-5 and then be home for the evening.
However, being a musician doesn’t justify his other unreliable and immature behavior, such as promising and then forgetting to show up, or lying about things etc. And also, what is he doing in his car for hours? It seems like as a way to escape spending time with you…
I’ve had more than just the two 2 bad relationships, and I’m 28 now. I really don’t want to go back to being optimistic, hopeful, and open to another person, because I’ve always been let down pretty hard. Lately I’ve been softer and more vulnerable with M, like when we got together, because the therapist told me too in order to give M the opportunity to prove himself.
I guess you gave him the benefit of the doubt. You’ve been tolerating his neglectful and lousy behavior for quite a while, and tried to be as calm and understanding as possible (And it’s honestly maddening to be looking him in the eyes and tell him, for the twentieth time), with only occasional outbursts of anger. As a side note, the latter was the only thing that actually made him change his behavior – temporarily. But he’d do it reluctantly, resenting you and blaming you for not being tolerant enough.
Anyway, you’ve been practicing empathy and understanding (a softer approach), as a way of self-development. And you’ve been doing pretty well. But now it’s time to stop practicing it with M, because with M, empathy and patience only means he’s going to continue treating you badly. And no amount of explaining or pleading or therapy seems to help change his behavior. Only your anger helps for a short while, but it’s not an honest change but a way to appease you and reduce tensions.
Being more empathetic and patient is a good quality, but it won’t lead you anywhere with M. It will only lead to more abuse and neglect. That’s why you “end up hurting more since I’ve been forcing myself to be less calloused”.
Soft, vulnerable, open, understanding, patient…. doesn’t work with M, it only hurts more. However, it is necessary for a healthy, committed intimate relationship. Those qualities are essential, but not to be practiced with people who don’t deserve it. With people whom you need to protect yourself from, rather than open up even more.
I have my lease for October, I’m moving out soon…but after that I’m not really expecting anything good to happen anymore. I’ve had many friends actually tell me “Maybe you have to come to terms that you’ll never find someone who deserves you.”. Which has been…hard to hear.
Those friends of yours aren’t helping you… maybe they don’t know what to say, and this is the easiest to say (besides “don’t worry, things will get better”). These 2 relationships, and those before them, helped you grow. You’ve grown a lot in the relationship with M. You’re only 28. You said you’d like to have children some day – well, you’ve got at least five more years to have your first child. You’ve got plenty of time to find a good guy. You aren’t late for anything and you’ve got plenty to hope for.
In one month you’ll be out of the flat and out of the toxic relationship with him. That’s when you can close the door to old and abusive, and open the door to new and healthy. As I said, you’re just beginning…
TeeParticipantDear Tineoidea,
This whole situation certainly made me introspect a lot and I can see how I should cut less of a slack to some people. I’ve hurt my own self-respect many times while trying to mediate with people who don’t want to put any effort into it.
Good you’re realizing it. The reasons for this behavior probably lie in your childhood, but we don’t need to talk about it if you don’t want to. Important is that you realize it’s been harming you, and that you seek to change it.
I’m not sure if my relationship with him can be salvaged or rebooted at this point and I’m not feeling much desire for it.
From what you’ve written so far, your friend is quite toxic and pretty unaware and unwilling to own up to his mistakes. Why would you want to go back and be bitten again and again? In my opinion, he would need to undergo a profound change to deserve your friendship again…
When it comes to her though, I’m willing to give it a good try as long as she offers a genuine apology and wholeheartedly tries to build the trust anew.
It’s a good attitude. I hope she’ll see through him soon enough… I wonder how much you have shared with her (before it was too late) about your friend’s character? Did you warn her about his possessiveness, his reckless behavior and your resentment towards him, or you only had positive things to say about him (in the months preceding the conflict)?
TeeParticipantDear Tineoidea,
It’s always been there and like I said before, I bond for life so I’m always the last one to leave a sinking ship. I try to make things work even at my own expense once I’ve bonded with somebody and I tend to put up with a lot, perhaps too much at times.
Yes, it appears you stayed in the relationship with your friend at your own expense, and now even at the expense of your relationship with your girlfriend. I am trying to understand what caused this sort of loyalty, which is self-destructive – you’d rather sacrifice yourself and your well-being than the relationship. What do you fear would happen if you’d put yourself first and protect your interests and your well-being, rather than the relationship?
TeeParticipantDear Tineoidea,
Hm, I’d say it comes from my loyalty.
Tell me more about loyalty. Why is it so important to you? Who taught you loyalty?
I’ve had no issues with cutting him off for weeks or even months when his behavior was completely out of hands. I must also say that there were times where he was very unstable or borderline suicidal over me telling him to cool off and cutting contact for a few days.
How did you feel when he threatened to kill himself if you cut contact? And how did you react? Resumed contact?
TeeParticipantDear Ashmitha,
He asked to talk a couple weeks after our breakup and said he felt miserable and couldn’t stop thinking about me,
That’s curious because before you broke up, he didn’t really show much interest in you, except once per week, during your intimate encounters. Could it be that he only misses that part, and in order to have it back, he was willing to agree to certain provisions, like introducing you to his friends, inviting you to a vacation with them, talking on the phone once or twice per week, and not ignoring your texts. He figured this is the minimum that should keep you satisfied… and he can still get what he wants. He now has to put in slightly more effort, but not too much more…
Since we met, he has said he wants to get married at age 30-31, which I thought was late. Recently he told me, he’s thinking of 32-33 now….
How old is he now? 27? Why the wait? Are there some objective reasons, or he simply doesn’t feel like tying the knot, but having fun as long as possible? I am sorry if I sound bitter, but I don’t think he has changed, and he’s still stringing you along…
TeeParticipantDear OrangeHeart,
Now struggling with thoughts that my boyfriend might be controlling.. I think its coming from a place of insecurity but its really wearing me down and whenever i try to speak to him about anything he just shuts off and stops talking…
It’s possible that he is controlling, and it could be his way of reducing stress of everyday life, which he finds overwhelming. This is what you said about him earlier:
My boyfriend also struggles with his mental health and the smallest thing can totally ruin his day, if not his week. i feel like i really go out my way for things to run smoothly for him. Ill do things he wants just so he doesn’t get upset even if its not what I want, just because its easier. When he is upset, im upset… So its easier to keep him happy so I can feel happy. Even if its not what I want to be doing! If he comes there will definitely also be some sort of issue.
He seems like a rather labile person, who easily gets upset and loses balance. He doesn’t have emotional resilience. As such, he needs to control his environment and the people around him, so to reduce stress and unpredictability to a minimum. Would you say this is true about him?
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