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  • #385026
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    I’ve been in a very intense and enjoyable relationship which lasted for almost two years. It was mostly a LDR, but we’ve spent a few months together in person as well (it’s been hard due to corona), which sealed the deal as the in-person and physical compatibilities were also amazing, and we enjoyed every moment together.

    At the start we helped each other a great deal emotionally, unraveled each other’s issues, helped each other heal and bloom, become confident and full of life. It was a truly amazing experience to spend every day together, never a boring or dull moment, and the feelings, attraction only kept growing stronger. This has been going strong till the last few months.
    We also decided to live together, marry and all that business. The plan was for me to move to her country where her house is being built and I have also participated in the that process as she constantly inquired me about the design, furniture and all that jazz.

    My legal and economic situations are very convoluted though and so the progress has been slow, nevertheless we had the plan B or simply marrying to get me out of this swamp.
    She did voice concerns about things being slow, how much she missed me physically, but we still kept going on and enjoyed every day together. Rationally, there wasn’t much to worry about besides things takes a bit longer, and there was always the plan B to fall on. Our feelings were unchanged, in fact they kept growing stronger.
    Likewise, we engaged in many activities together, even a mutual project. Simply put, we connected very well on most levels and could enjoy each other’s company even while working.

    Now, enter the third wheel. A “friend” I’ve known for a long time, became jealous and angry about her “replacing” him and began to project all sort of delusions onto her, such as her being a pretender that will only harm me, will tear us two apart and so on (ironically prophetic).
    He became rather nasty with her, treating her like a lesser being. She had suffered a lot over it, cried a lot. I was intent on cutting him off since he simply refused to reason, apologize and own up, instead he kept doubling up on his abuse of her and made me lose more and more trust in him. Meanwhile, she kept wanting for things to work out, didn’t want me to lose an old friend, and so I kept trying to mediate.
    The absurd thing here is that despite her being very aware of the situation and constantly voicing that interacting with him does her no good and that she should stop, she still kept doing it on and off, coming back bruised and in tears every time.

    Eventually I had to cut him off from her and took the battle to our internal front as to remove her from the strife. Things were peaceful for some time.
    As things didn’t really improve in between him and me, at a point I decided to simply cut him off as that’s not the kind of the friend I want. Needless to say that he didn’t take this well.
    It seems like she contacted him again after this, or he did. According to her, she always felt some sort of unexplainable empathy and draw towards him. I must say that he also endangered my livehood, and she was aware of it.

    This was the tipping point. Over the course of a few weeks, she did a complete 180. She forgave all the harm he caused to her and me, began spending every day with him and also turned against me, now parroting his hatred against me. She also shared my secrets and our relationship details with him.
    Swiftly she turned me, somebody she wished to spend her life with, into an enemy of sorts. I have endured weeks of gaslighting, emotional coldness and generally shitty behavior as she became almost a different person.
    We used to discuss everything in depth, analyze things, listen to each other’s feedback. Now everything was different, she refused to explain anything, became abrasive with me and so on. She also plainly said that he now matters more to her than I do, after talking for a few weeks!
    This is also when her strong feelings towards me suddenly became to “fade”, as she said. She was confused and vulnerable, and decided that we need some distance so she can figure things out. The distance didn’t happen though, instead she spent every day talking to him and pushing me away more and more. I am more than sure that he played a big part in tearing us apart, as he himself confirmed when we spoke. She was vulnerable and he most likely took advantage of her to get back at me.
    At a point, he even wished that I died.

    Eventually, and after a few weeks, she broke up with me and wasn’t able to give any coherent reason as to why. It was always a “I don’t know myself”, “it’s how thing are”, etc. However, she denied romantic involvement with him, saying that she doesn’t know what’s going on exactly, meanwhile he kept saying that they’re falling in love.
    Now, this is called overlapping and is basically a form of cheating, getting involved with somebody (who abused you for months) while still being in a relationship.
    She also went back on all her words and promises, including helping me and wanting to remain friends. All of which were set in place before we got involved romantically.

    We were still in contact though, but she became more and more abrasive over the next days, getting to the point of angrily snapping at me over little things. Then the gaslighting doubled up and all sort of accusations were flying towards me.
    At this point, it wasn’t about her, me or our relationship but him and me.
    I should also mention that he hasn’t shared this with her friends and has been avoiding interacting with them, being obsessed over the guy instead. When we were together and even though we spent most of our waking hours with each other, she never neglected her friends and always made space for them. I do know that the guy can be very controlling and possessive, as I have dealt with it many times.

    Eventually I decided to stop talking to her for some time, so she can maybe cool off, figure things out and snap out of whatever charm he had placed upon her, or she placed upon herself as a way to cope with the situation. It’s been some weeks since when and we haven’t spoken. She hasn’t cut contact or removed me from anywhere though, but did ask me to retreat from some shared spaces which were important to her because seeing and interacting with me made her feel very sad over what was lost and how much she loved me.

    I should also mention that she’s been extremely unbalanced during the whole ordeal, going from affectionate and rational to abrasive and angry. Likewise we also had days while she engaged in conversations and listened to me, and others where she refused to engage and instead attacked me.

    She did mention feeling ashamed and angry about herself, which made her want to push me away when she actually needed me close.

    I still love her strongly and care for her, but I must admit that I can’t really trust or respect her anymore, and I did a whole lot before this happened.

    TLDR; Girlfriend of almost two years whom we made plans of marrying and living together with, dumps me for a bad friend of mine which I cut off who abused and made her cry for months, after talking to him for just a couple of weeks. She has a history of being stuck in abusive relationships.

    Any insight is appreciated because I am truly lost. All of this is both extremely painful and absurd, and I can’t stop worrying about her being in manipulative hands either. Thanks!

    #385046
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea:

    I will retell your story in a summarized fashion, in my effort to “make sense of this“:

    You had an almost 2-year long distance relationship with a woman (let’s refer to her as W), including a few months in-person. It was amazing, “never a boring or dull moment, and the feelings, attraction only kept growing stronger… connected on most levels“. The plan was marriage and a life together in her country.

    A man friend of yours (let’s refer to him as M) was angry at W because he felt that she replaced him in your life. M told you this about W: “(She is) being a pretender that will only harm me, will tear us two apart“, and later you wrote about M: “I do know that the guy can be very controlling and possessive, as I have dealt with it many times“-

    – I need to pause on retelling your story and ask you: can you elaborate on your relationship with M, the history of the relationship (sounds like it was very close, perhaps romantic)?

    Back to your story: M abused W, “treating her like a lesser being“, she “suffered a lot over it, cried a lot“, and yet, you did not end your friendship with him. You were “intent on cutting him off” but you didn’t. He then “kept doubling up on his abuse of her“, but you still didn’t end your relationship with the man who abused the woman you planned to marry. Instead of ending your relationship with him, you “kept trying to mediate“.

    I will pause here. You wrote about your relationship with W: “At the start we helped each other a great deal emotionally, unraveled each other’s issues“, and later, you wrote about W: “She has a history of being stuck in abusive relationships“. I imagine then that at the start of the relationship, when the two of you unraveled each other’s issues, you learned that she has a history of being stuck in abusive relationships. My question is: while W was abused by M, why did you not do all that you could to prevent him from abusing her, including ending all contact with M?

    Back to your story, you wrote: “Eventually I had to cut him off from her… things didn’t really improve in between him and me“-

    Another pause to ask: how did you cut him off her, and why did you not cut him off you?

    Back to your story: “at a point I decided to simply cut him off as that’s not the kind of the friend I want. Needless to say that he didn’t take this well“. Next W got close with M, turning against you. Next, she broke up with you. As this was happening, “she denied romantic involvement with him“, and “he kept saying that they’re falling in love“.

    I would like to reply further if and when I receive your answers.

    anita

    #385052
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    – I need to pause on retelling your story and ask you: can you elaborate on your relationship with M, the history of the relationship (sounds like it was very close, perhaps romantic)?

    He’s been a close friend of mine for a very long time, although things have always been somewhat rocky in between us and I’ve had to fend off his possessiveness. Nevertheless we got along pretty well. There wasn’t anything romantic in between us for over a decade but there may have been something on his side during the first years, although it was never reciprocated and so it died off quickly.

    -My question is: while W was abused by M, why did you not do all that you could to prevent him from abusing her, including ending all contact with M?

    Oh, but I did. At first she kept objecting to me just cutting him off outright as she didn’t want me to lose a lifelong friend, so I tried to make things work. Like I said, when I saw that things were going nowhere, direct action was taken.

    -Another pause to ask: how did you cut him off her, and why did you not cut him off you?

    I removed him from the spheres where they could see each other and interact. I took the fight to our internal front because I myself didn’t want to lose a lifelong friend and thought that he’d come to reason. During this period we have spent some time “going back to our roots” so to say, doing together activities we used to. I thought this would help him soften up and come to terms but ultimately he just took comfort in that arrangement and being able to spend time with me again. It went nowhere in the end and so I had to cut him off.

    I must say again that she kept trying to contact him even during that period, against her own judgement and my advice and always came back bruised. Likewise she contacted him again after I had cut him off as she “felt a lot of empathy towards him”. This isn’t only about our romantic relationship, she betrayed me as a close friend as well.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    #385054
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea:

    He’s been a close friend of mine for a very long time, although things have always been somewhat rocky in between us and I’ve had to fend off his possessiveness. Nevertheless we got along pretty well“-

    – I can’t put together, in my mind, these two things: “always been somewhat rocky”, and “we got along pretty well” unless.. perhaps you enjoyed his possessiveness, or you enjoyed the rocky nature of the relationship with him (?)

    There wasn’t anything romantic in between us for over a decade but there may have been something on his side during the first years, although it was never reciprocated and so it died off quickly“- but it didn’t die off a long time ago: M was trying so hard to separate you from W most recently because of his romantic interest in you still, don’t you think?

    I myself didn’t want to lose a lifelong friend“- why didn’t you want to lose a possessive man who was trying hard to separate you from your girlfriend?

    In the title of your thread, you asked: “Help me make sense of this“. I think that the missing sense (in my mind, at this point), is primarily in the nature of your relationship with M, not in your relationship with W.

    This isn’t only about our romantic relationship, she betrayed me as a close friend as well“- there is some unclear (to me) connection between you and M, and the two of you together, through that connection, betrayed W- that’s my feel for what happened, at this point.

    anita

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by anita.
    #385058
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    – I can’t put together, in my mind, these two things: “always been somewhat rocky”, and “we got along pretty well” unless.. perhaps you enjoyed his possessiveness, or you enjoyed the rocky nature of the relationship with him (?)

    I wouldn’t say yes to either, we connected on other levels and those were flaws I was willing to overlook.

    -but it didn’t die off a long time ago: M was trying so hard to separate you from W most recently because of his romantic interest in you still, don’t you think?

    According to his words and actions, it did. I don’t think that’s an issue on the list here. To him the issue was that she was “replacing” him as my closest friend.

    -why didn’t you want to lose a possessive man who was trying hard to separate you from your girlfriend?

    Precisely because of our long history together. It’s not like he was absolutely awful, and I wanted to believe.

    -there is some unclear (to me) connection between you and M, and the two of you together, through that connection, betrayed W- that’s my feel for what happened, at this point.

    I’d say it boils down to the image of me he presented to her and the way he described the conflict. For some reason she chose to fully believe him and disregard all the struggles he caused to me and her, disregard the me she knew inside out. She began to assume a lot of things about my relationship with him, to blame me for things in between us she definitely has no idea about, to assume what I and he felt and what we didn’t, and so on.

    She did mention feeling an unexplainable attraction and empathy towards him, and I didn’t think it could possibly lead to any of this.

     

     

     

    #385062
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea:

    About you and M, you wrote: “we connected on other levels and those were flaws I was willing to overlook“. You were strong enough to overlook his possessiveness, strong enough to endure a rocky relationship with him.

    Sometime after W entered a relationship with M, she was not strong enough to overlook his possessiveness, and she was not strong enough to endure a rocky relationship with him. She felt too much empathy for him, and too much of a desire to please him. So she pleased his desire to possess her, hoping that he will be satisfied and calm as a result (“She did mention feeling an unexplainable attraction and empathy towards him“).

    Regarding M, you wrote: “To him the issue was that she was ‘replacing’ him as my closest friend“- His possessiveness found its satisfaction with W, he finally succeeded to possess someone. And so, he replaced you with her.

    As a result of being possessed, W is confused, lost and troubled.

    anita

    #385063
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    Thank you for the insight, this is similar to what I and my friends came with.

    Now I just don’t know what to do about it, if anything. I’m severely pained by losing both a friend and my lover whom I intended to spend the life with. The betrayals went really deep.

    Yet I still worry about her, and she herself voiced that he does come off as possessive at times when they started talking. What could I even do in such a situation? Should I leave them alone and hope it ends sooner than later? Should I try to remain close to her as a counter force?

    When it comes to him, and despite the vile treatment he subjected me to in the end, I can’t stop thinking that things could have gone a different way. The fact that he chose to invalidate all our years together and blame all he ever did on me, was a very painful blow. Despite everything, I still cherish the memories we created together.

    #385064
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea:

    You are welcome.

    Regarding M, you wrote: “Despite everything, I still cherish the memories we created together“-

    – I think that “Despite everything”, you still view your relationship with him as something quite wonderful and you want to resume it. Problem is that M has a need to Possess. You managed his need quite well, but W is not able to follow suit: she can’t do what you can do, in this regard.

    Therefore, you cannot have the two of them in your life, you have to choose one or the other.

    Regarding W and M, you asked: “What could I even do in such a situation? Should I leave them alone and hope it ends sooner than later? Should I try to remain close to her as a counter force?“-

    – To be able to answer, I need to ask your thoughts about what I wrote above, that you need to choose one or the other. Are you willing to have a life with her and have nothing to do with him, nothing at all, as in no contact?

    anita

    #385065
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    Ultimately I choose her, as everything has been open, honest and pleasant in between us from the start. With no signs of unhealthy behavior. Likewise the prospect of spending our lives together, having a family was strong and with solid foundations.

    I voiced this to her, that as long as they two remain together, she will continue to demonize and push me away due to that hatred against me he’s injecting into her, and he will block all thoughts about a reconcilliation with me because he believes that I’m harmful to her and just want to separate them. Her response was to push me further away.

    He should stay a memory. Perhaps after years and down the road he may realize his own mistakes and become open. I don’t see that right now or anytime soon though and so I’d rather we went our own ways.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Tineoidea.
    #385103
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    I’ve had a very heated conversation with her recently, with a lot of emotions, mixed signals and her saying that it is her who chose to engage with him actively and let him in. Not sure if that was just her way of defending him but it projects and even worse scenario, that she actively chose to betray me.

    It also seems like she’s missing me a lot still and cries over the loss of both her lover and best friend.

    #385180
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    Another update. We’ve had a very emotive call and she decided to cut off the communication for good as interacting with me and even seeing my presence is painful and sad to her.
    What surfaced during this interaction is that she indeed still loves me, misses me a lot and doesn’t feel romantic love when it comes to my former friend.
    Yet she still wants to try things with him and absolutely doesn’t want to give us two a chance, she wants to move on.

    She also refused to meet face to face and give it a proper closure, which sits very wrong with me as I think it is only the decent thing to do when it comes to such a lifechanging decision.

    At this point there isn’t really anything I can do but any insight is still welcome.

    #385428
    Tineoidea
    Participant

    This may be the last update. I believe I had managed to unravel the mystery.

    After countless hours of reading relevant information, ruminating, revising logs and consulting other people, I came to the conclusion that she suffers from the Covert version of NPD (Narcissist Personality Disorder).
    What happened with my friend was probably just her procuring her new supply beforehand by separating him from, and putting against me.
    Feeling candid now, I’ve realized just how much she manipulated, led on and gaslit me. Those things you ignore while blinded by love.

    To everybody who’s currently suffering in a situation which doesn’t seem to be making any sense, where their loved one did a complete 180 on them, do read on the various forms of NPD, how they conduct their “relationships” and how they pull apart and triangulate your friends.

    #385429
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea:

    At one point your thread was reported for inappropriate content (I believe that you reported yourself by mistake), and therefore I was unable to reply to you. I noticed today that the situation was corrected. I need to be away from the computer, but will be back in about 15 hours to read your updates and reply further.

    anita

    #385433
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea:

    This may be the last update. I believe I had managed to unravel the mystery. After countless hours of reading relevant information, ruminating, revising logs…  I came to the conclusion that she suffers from the Covert version of NPD (Narcissist Personality Disorder)“-

    -it is usually women who unravel the mystery of their failed relationships by concluding, after visiting the many available narcissist blogs and websites online,  that the ex-boyfriend was after all…a narcissist.

    To everybody who’s currently suffering in a situation which doesn’t seem to be making any sense.. do read on the various forms of NPD“- it is psychiatrists and psychotherapists who are qualified to diagnose a person with a personality disorder, but the popular trend is for any rejected partner to “diagnose” the rejecting partner of being a narcissist.

    anita

    #385434
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Tineoidea,

    My impression is that your girlfriend was/is confused about herself (perhaps even her sexual identity?), and therefore easily influenced by others. This is what suggests her confusion:

    Eventually, and after a few weeks, she broke up with me and wasn’t able to give any coherent reason as to why. It was always a “I don’t know myself”, “it’s how thing are.

    Also, she was very unbalanced, sometimes very affectionate towards you, at other times abrasive and angry:

    I should also mention that she’s been extremely unbalanced during the whole ordeal, going from affectionate and rational to abrasive and angry.

    This too shows a very deep internal conflict:

    What surfaced during this interaction is that she indeed still loves me, misses me a lot and doesn’t feel romantic love when it comes to my former friend.
    Yet she still wants to try things with him and absolutely doesn’t want to give us two a chance, she wants to move on.

    She loves you, and yet doesn’t want to have anything to do with you? She feels no romantic love for your male friend, and yet she wants to “try things with him”?

    It might suggest confusion about her sexual identity. Do you think it’s possible that she feels guilty for being attracted to the same sex, and he is feeding this guilt? And she chose him to prove to herself that she might be able to like men too? This is just a guess, it could be totally wrong, I am just exploring the reasons for her 180-degrees turn.

     

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