November 23, 2022 at 10:27 am #410593
Thank you for your insightful reply
maybe he observed that when your sister confronted his mother with the truth about her hurt, his mother hurt his sister even more. So, he learned to not confront anyone with the truth of his hurt. Exactly , he is this way with every confrontation , he only can show his anger in a very explosive way , when he is angry because he feels more powerful but he destroys everything.
She can’t cut ties when her basic power is with her mother. She needs her lost power back. You became one of “the bad guys” in her mind because you supported the bad guy in her life: her mother. you are right , she hated each of us because she believes we weren
t the main target of my moms anger and maybe she `s right , i was too young to remember but when my brother is telling about their relationship , is like he is explaining a nightmare. it was so bad that my dad was adamant to sent my sister away because he knew they , my mother and sister would never get along .
i think we recently only talked about my family situation although i enjoyed it , i believe it`s selfish to talk about me , do you have any topic in mind to talk about ?
farnazNovember 23, 2022 at 10:47 am #410594
You are welcome! “I think we recently only talked about my family situation although I enjoyed it, I believe it`s selfish to talk about me, do you have any topic in mind to talk about?“- we talked about your and my original family situations and I understand more about mine because of our discussion. And/ but… anything you want to talk about, whatever it is.. let’s talk about it. I suppose it is easier for me- and more interesting to me- to take your lead on presenting a topic than it is bringing up my own.
farnazNovember 23, 2022 at 10:49 am #410595
Ooops, the above should end with my name (I normally copy the OP’s post to which I reply and your name above is from what I copied and forgot to erase).November 23, 2022 at 11:26 am #410596
no problem anita ,And/ but… anything you want to talk about, whatever it is.. let’s talk about it and thank you for letting me talk about my problems , but if have any topic you want to talk about which is interesting to you , share with me if you like ,
one of my problems i always had that you might relate to it , is to be considered cold and distant , because i
m scared to be hurt and that made me hard to approach specially in relation to romantic partners , im not comfortable with intimacy . could you share your experiences in romance , if you wish ?i mean your experiences with your mother how affect your love life ?
FarnazNovember 23, 2022 at 11:41 am #410597
I can definitely relate. My experience with my mother had a major affect and effect on romantic relationships, so much so that there has been very, very little romance in my life. I remember being infatuated with a boy in high school, for many, many months, day-dreaming about him for hours at a time. Eventually, he asked me to the movies. All through that date, riding a train, sitting at the movies.. I was non-stop self-conscience, particularly about my breathing. I was afraid that he will hear the air coming out of my nose. When the date was over, I was relieved: it was torture! He didn’t ask me for a second date.
You can only imagine, I imagine, my discomfort with any closeness closer than hearing- from a distance- the air leaving my nose. Also, physical intimacy like holding hands- still bothers me sometimes. I keep feeling.. her hands. Her touch made my skin crawl. Your experience is probably not as bad as mine, is it? Or maybe it is.
anitaNovember 23, 2022 at 12:16 pm #410599
just like you i had very little romance in my life , although i
m not that self conscious about myself during the dates which were very few , i got very obsessed with guys around me , i made a big deal from very few gestures they did in my mind and wasting my time daydreaming about them , like having a future and ...with no result . they werent even aware i had a crush on them , i was too cold and prideful to show it . i don
t know if im exaggerating or not but NONE of them were a good much for me when i look back , i was choosing them subconsciously so if they left or that didn
t work out , i would tell myself im better off without them and i dodge the bullet which is true , they weren
t good people, they werent a good match for most women but i chose them , i mean they were very similar . selfish , distant and arrogant and most of them wanted me to do all the work .like my mom?! what about you do you see any pattern in men you were interested?
FarnazNovember 23, 2022 at 12:48 pm #410601
I am not as self conscious as I was in high school. Also, I used to daydream about that particular guy (his name was Robert, an intellectual looking- and sounding guy, thick glasses, didn’t have any facial hair throughout high school). I day dreamed lots of love stories but that stopped sometime in my early 20s, I think. Everything was easy when daydreaming: no courage required to do anything.. everything proceeded like I wished it to proceed.. the easy and pleasurable way to enjoy a love story.
“I was too cold and prideful to show it“- this reminds me of our talk about inferiority vs superiority, the two being two sides of the same coin. I felt superior to guys who showed interest in me, but painfully inferior overall.
“NONE of them were a good match for me… they weren’t good people, they weren’t a good match for most women, but I chose them, I mean, they were very similar: selfish , distant and arrogant and most of them wanted me to do all the work, like my mom?!“- when you say that most wanted you to do all the work, what do you mean by it, specifically?
I read your question for me, but maybe I will answer it tomorrow morning. I am getting tired now and sharing about some of my personal experience in regard to this topic is uncomfortable for me. I’ll see how I feel tomorrow!
anitaNovember 23, 2022 at 10:26 pm #410636
t want you to push you say anything youre not comfortable with , if you don
t want to talk about it , thats ok .
but i do believe if we talked about these difficult topics , and sharing as much as we are comfortable with , can help us both . but obviously there is no push here.
this reminds me of our talk about inferiority vs superiority, the two being two sides of the same coin. I felt superior to guys who showed interest in me, but painfully inferior overall.exactly , everything is related , unfortunately . i feel i never think of myself as equal to others .
by doing all the work , i meant make the relationship happens , doing all the steps without actually trying to impress me or showing they worth trying to keep them in my life , and they were`n worthy
m looking forward your reply , take your time and if you dont want to talk about it , it`s completely fine for me
FarnazNovember 24, 2022 at 9:55 am #410659
Thank you for being as gentle as you are in regard to talking about this topic, I appreciate it very much. Let’s then talk about what we feel comfortable talking about and to the extent we feel comfortable.
“I feel I never think of myself as equal to others“- in regard to feeling superior to men you were involved with, I wonder if it’s similar, in any way, to my case: my mother sent me the loud and clear message that I was Inferior (her words “a big zero” come to mind), but she also repeatedly told me (in a day-dreaming kind of way) that I will meet a prince charming who will marry me and make all (her) dreams come true. In my child-mind, I was supposed to meet and marry a handsome, rich man who will fulfill my mother’s dreams. The men I came across as an older teenager and young adult were not even close to (and therefore Inferior) to what they were supposed to be (according to my mother).
“By doing all the work, I meant make the relationship happen, doing all the steps, without actually trying to impress me or showing they’re worth (trying to keep) them in my life“- I wonder what kinds of work you practically did (ex., initiating dates?), and if you did that work with a cold-and-distant attitude (“I (was) considered cold and distant.. in relation to romantic partners“, Nov 23), an attitude to which the men did not positively react/ weren’t encouraged by…?
anitaNovember 25, 2022 at 12:58 am #410684
you are welcome , yes we can talk to the extent we are both comfortable with .
I wonder what kinds of work you practically did (ex., initiating dates?), and if you did that work with a cold-and-distant attitude (“I (was) considered cold and distant.. in relation to romantic partners“, Nov 23), an attitude to which the men did not positively react/i seem distant and cold in general and in general that make approaching me a little bit tricky , but once i like a person in opposite sex i don
t have any problem approaching them , i kinda overdo it , and show a little bit too much interests , so they would feel comfortable sitting their butt down and do nothing , it doesnt take much for me to realize that kind of behavior in a man , so i stop doing anything for them , to see if they do anything to gain my interests again , in most cases they don
t , they werent that into me i guess , they wanted a ego trip , in case they were interested in me , i will find tons of faults in them to convince my self they are not any good , and by faults i mean based on my mom`s standard , subconsciously .
<strong> she also repeatedly told me (in a day-dreaming kind of way) that I will meet a prince charming who will marry me and make all (her) dreams come true </strong>that was the exact situation in my sister
s case , i think i cant completely distinguish between my own standards and my mom`s to this age
FarnazNovember 25, 2022 at 6:56 am #410700
“Once I like a person of the opposite sex, I don’t have any problem approaching them. I kinda overdo it, and show a little bit too much interest“- I think that when you like a man, you show a lot of interest because you feel interested and excited about the prospect of a love relationship with a man. Excited children overdo it, and so do you, in this context.
“I seem distant and cold in general and in general… In case they were interested in me, I will find tons of faults in them to convince myself they are not any good, and by faults I mean based on my mom`s standard , subconsciously“- I think that you generally appear distant and cold and that you find faults in men because you are loyal to your mother who made it clear to you that she wants you isolated and alone.
Your mother wanted you isolated and alone within the family: “She turned me and my siblings against each other… the result is all of us feel isolated and alone“, and she separated herself from you: “Now that I look back, if I could talk to my mom, I would say… do you think blaming me and somehow separating yourself from me..“.
She wanted you separated, isolated and alone outside of the family as well by instilling in you severe distrust in people: “I remember I was ten or eleven… I was telling my mom that when I was crossing the street the bus driver stopped the whole bus so I could go safely and I was so proud of it and my mom said it was because he realized that you are a stupid kid”- as a kid, you thought that the bus driver stopped the bus because he thought highly of you. Your mother corrected you, claiming that the bus driver thought lowly of you.
There were many instances, I am sure, when she expressed to you that people are not to be trusted and that they deserve your low opinion of them, and you absorbed what she expressed to you: “I am surrounded by loser people who don’t know what to do with themselves and their lives… have no purpose… many bad people… bad company… my inner thoughts were confirmed: PEOPLE ARE OUT TO GET ME, NOBODY IS TRUSTWORTHY and that made me even more isolated… I anticipate an attack from people all the time… they weren’t good people, they weren’t a good match for most women, but I chose them, I mean, they were very similar: selfish , distant and arrogant“.
A loving daughter wants to be loyal to her mother’s teachings.
anitaNovember 25, 2022 at 8:10 am #410704
There were many instances, I am sure, when she expressed to you that people are not to be trusted and that they deserve your low opinion of them, and you absorbed what she expressed to you, you
re right she did it multiple times and tried to separate me from others but in some ways i did feel separated and like an outsider myself because in my mind nobody had a problem similar to me and nobody could understand me , i mean having a mom with terminal cancer and i said i was surrounded with kind of people not because i believe im above everybody but because i think i
m not confident enough to socialize with more successful people who know what they want , i feel intimidated by them , because being surrounded with losers gave me this security that im better than some people and if they did something bad to me , i would say , it`s because of jealousy or pettiness .
t judge the value of a human by their success as much as my parents , i HOPE but some people can lift you up in life just you can make an example of them or give you some good advice and they are strong enough to be with you when you need at least they dont drag you down but i was surrounded by people who wanted to drag me down i did alot of stuff they couldn
t handle , you remember i told you they werent very happy that i wasn
t broken completely ?i dont want to be surrounded by these kind of people obviously .
She wanted you separated, isolated and alone outside of the family as well by instilling.. and what was her reason do you think ?
FarnazNovember 25, 2022 at 9:36 am #410711
“She did it multiple times and tried to separate me from others, but in some ways, I did feel separated and like an outsider myself, in my mind“- “but in some ways” or and in some ways? I mean, a little girl’s mother has direct access to the girl’s mind aka brain. Like I said earlier, our childhood years are called our Formative Years because our brains are literally Formed during those years… and some mothers have a heavy hand in forming the brains of her children. Therefore, she tried to separate you from others and she succeeded.
anita: “She wanted you separated, isolated and alone outside of the family as well by instilling“, Farnaz: “and what was her reason do you think?“-
– I think that you unknowingly answered your question in the same post where you asked it: “I am not confident enough to socialize with more successful people… I feel intimidated by them, because being surrounded with losers gave me this security that I’m better than some people“-
-she was not confident enough to socialize with a strong, successful husband and strong, successful children. If she had a strong and successful husband and children, she would have felt intimidated, and so, she broke each one of you for the purpose of being surrounded by losers (your word), and that gave her a feeling of security, a feeling that she is better than any one of you.
To separate and isolate a highly social individual animal, such as a human, is the same as breaking him or her.
Does this make sense to you?
anitaNovember 25, 2022 at 10:42 am #410714
yes , it does make sense , i believe my mom and most likely yours too , were afraid that if we socialize with more successful people or people in general we gonna abandon them and it was scarier than intimidation for them if i
m isolated it is more likely to be dependent to someone and gonna ignore their flaws and most likely to idolize them as i remember you told about the experience you had with your mom in front of your friend. she wasnt happy about you having friends . successful people can easily recognize unsuccessful people , i mean usually 2 people who are not particularly doing good in their life can
t say or realize the another one is not doing well , they cant even realize about themselves .
i remember all these LOSERS beside my mom , wanted me to be isolated , it was the ultimate goal
i`m struggling to describe my point of view in second language here , i hope you understand what i mean
<strong>To separate and isolate a highly social individual animal, such as a human, is the same as breaking him or her. </strong>that
s true but i dont feel comfortable about it , that`s not a life sentence , is it?and did you have the same experience with people too , i mean your surrounding in general , do you feel intimidated like me ?
FarnazNovember 25, 2022 at 12:19 pm #410716
“I believe my mom and most likely yours too, were afraid that if we socialize with more successful people or people in general, we gonna abandon them“- my mother broke me because she was angry. It was her anger that motivated her. She didn’t have an individual plan, a strategy… she reacted to her anger. She didn’t feel that it was fair that she alone will be broken. She was envious of the non-broken me, so she made it fair.
“If I’m isolated, it is more likely to.. ignore their flaws and most likely to idolize them“- yes, I agree, although I think that they thought of this: they acted and reacted instinctively, similar to how animals behave: observing them you can make sense of their behavior, you can see nature’s plan. But the animals are not aware of that plan. They act and react instinctively.
“That`s not a life sentence , is it?“- no: not for you, not for me,
“Did you have the same experience with people too..?“- I think that you are asking if I chose to surround myself with “losers”- no, I didn’t choose losers or winners. I didn’t choose much of anything. Throughout my 20s and 30s, I was alone most of the time, but sometimes I was chosen: not by good people, and not in ways that benefited me.