Dear Neverdyed:

I’ve communicated with many hundreds of members in these forums, people from every continent in the world, except for Antarctica. Some with very poor English, but never did I experience such a frustration as when trying to understand you. Here and there, in isolation, you are clear, but when trying to connect the points, to See the Story- I find myself suspended in Confusion Land.

One  example- you wrote about this man: “I hope that he’d value my worth and suggest a try, however that would be hard work for sure, and the result may still be unpleasant”- I understood the part I italicized, but what does the rest mean: what would be hard work? For  whom will it be hard work?  What results are you referring to?

I don’t know.

You wrote about your mother that she “was always the one who forced others to talk during a fight”- it is as if you decided early on that if you are forced to talk, then you will confuse the hell out of the listener/ reader, a passive-aggressive response to being forced to talk.

In your most recent post, you wrote: “I admit that I’m rather passive aggressive”. I have experienced your passive-aggressive communication style: give the reader/ listener a bit of clarity and then drown them in confusion.

I will no longer reply to you- a great relief for me!

anita

Dear Neverdyed:

I apologize: I sincerely regret suggesting that you have been purposefully unclear and vague so to confuse the reader, being passive-aggressive this way. I lost my patience trying to understand your story and accused you of what you may not at all be guilty of. I am sorry.

Your writing, because of language difficulties, and maybe because communication difficulties, is very unclear and vague. After seven pages of your thread, I have no idea who this man is, the man you’ve been sharing about: I don’t know a thing about his personality or character or anything else, other than he lives in a different country from you. I know nothing about the relationship you had with him, and I know nothing much about you.

I don’t easily give up on understanding a member: it is difficult for me to stop trying. But I have to stop trying to understand you and your story. Perhaps other members are better able, if they choose to try to understand.

I hope that you accept my apology. I also hope that you will improve your language and communication skills, and I wish you well. I am now withdrawing from your thread. Goodbye, Neverdyed.

anita

Dear Neverdyed,

I’ve re-read your earlier posts, and I see a lot of ambivalence on your part in your relationship with him, especially in the beginning. For example, the fact that you didn’t even like him very much at the beginning. You were surprised when he contacted you after you’d returned to your country (“When I returned to my country in 2018, I didn’t expect him to stay in touch, but he did and rather frequently, that’s why I got used to the pattern”).

You said in one of the posts last June that you don’t even want a relationship with him and would leave him when someone better comes along:

“In fact, I don’t really want to be in a relationship with him, just my obsession of letting people go makes me so. And I’ve always been aware that once there’s someone “better” here, I’d leave, yet the problem is there’s none and I’m not going to chase.”

You also said that he behaved more maturely than you (“The man acted maturer than me most of the time.”) and that after you’ve returned to your country in 2018, it was you who might have made your communication more difficult, by interpreting his messages negatively, after which he might have ran out of patience:

“It’s true that I’d kept many things to myself when he and I were able to meet in person. And it’s awkward for me to express at times. Then I returned to my country, the main communication was via messages, I already tend to over analyse, without seeing the other’s facial expressions, I interpreted messages negatively often. I know it can be tiring for him to deal with me from time to time, yet it’s definitely worse for me. I decided to open up a little (the core one was my fear of people’d disappear, as it’s happened several times) after sensing some changes in the relationship and reading psychological stuff. Maybe he was encouraging in the beginning, then he either ran out of patience or simply shifted his attention.”

Since you were quite ambivalent about him in the beginning, and got very attached as the time went by, I can imagine that your initial lack of interest and a sort of indifference was a protective mechanism. You thought that nothing would come out of the relationship anyway, so why get too excited. Perhaps you referred to this state of indifference as “ashes”, which he then ignited each time he contacted you.

As the time went by, I am guessing you were less and less indifferent, started to get attached to him, but because of your protective mechanism, you didn’t show it very much. He was initiating contact, you were responding, but you were careful not to start a chat when it’s not “your turn”, because what if he doesn’t want to hear from you. You also didn’t inquire much about his life or his family, because you thought it would be intrusive. You were protecting yourself from rejection and humiliation, you didn’t want to let on that you care about him.

So you were getting more and more attached, perhaps you even started believing that this could turn into a serious relationship, but you didn’t express it to him, you didn’t show too much enthusiasm to him. What you did show was a certain “negativity” (when you misinterpreted his messages), maybe accusing him of things, which he didn’t like because it was supposed to be a light, casual relationship, in which people don’t demand things from each other.

I can even imagine that his initial enthusiasm and “affection” was because you said you weren’t interested in a committed relationship, and he felt safe. When you started expressing some “heaviness”, perhaps some passive aggressiveness and veiled accusations (I don’t know, just guessing here), he didn’t like it and started withdrawing.

For him, with his avoidant attachment style, any kind of demand for regular contact, exclusivity and commitment would feel like a threat. So as you were getting ready to put down your guard at least a little and peek out of your shell (while still being careful not to show your affection too much), he was already withdrawing because he sensed you wanted more than he was willing to give.

During this whole process you’ve realized that a casual relationship isn’t what you actually want. You want a real, committed, exclusive relationship. It’s something he most probably isn’t willing to give you. He realizes he makes you sad, but doesn’t feel responsible for your sadness, since he never promised you anything more than fun. But you are hurting because although in the beginning you thought you don’t care, you ended up caring quite a bit.

Please correct me if I made wrong assumptions and if your relationship wasn’t like that. If you feel it’s mostly true, I am sorry it happened like that. It was painful but you don’t need to repeat it, if you understand how and why it happened, and how your own attitude might have contributed to it.

Dear Neverdyed,

“I think I do have become obsessed along the way, and all the contradictions contributed to the thread title.”

Yes, I think the contradictions were because you didn’t really know what you want. For example, Conflict #4: “I don’t want him to contact me when he’s with someone, but then it’d probably result in a long absence as he’s not going to be alone for sure.”

This conflict assumes that you need a man who dates other women and only gets in touch when he isn’t with someone else. But do you really need such a man? Do you want to depend on his breadcrumbs or you want someone who loves you and is committed to you? See what I mean? Your conflict would be resolved pretty quickly if you decided what you want and what you don’t want in a relationship.

Or Conflict #1: I hope to keep in touch with him, but I have no faith in keeping a formal relationship.

Do you want a formal, committed relationship, where your partner is eager to communicate with you, or you want an open relationship where he can just pop up whenever he feels like, but also disappear if he fancies to? Do you want commitment and constancy or you accept whatever he gives you, even if it leaves you hurt and frustrated? It’s on you to decide. Once you know what you want, the conflict will resolve by itself.

“It’s true that I feel if there was someone else here, I wouldn’t be so “stuck”, but I still don’t want to go meet people especially just to get over the situation. Also, it’d be worse if there was someone else here, yet my mind continued to focus on him…”

Yes, it’s better to let go of him first, before you venture out to meet other people. If you’re still stuck on him, you’d need to understand what it is that you expect from him, what are you hoping that he would give you, which you can’t give to yourself?

“Maybe I simply expect to be valued equally.”

Perhaps this is the answer to the mystery – perhaps you don’t even need love from him, but respect? That he values you? Perhaps what hurt you the most in his silence and not replying to your messages was that he showed lack of respect for you? What if the solution is to start valuing yourself, regardless of him?

• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Tee.

Dear Neverdyed,

no worries, take your time 🙂

I must admit I had trouble understanding parts of your post, for example this:

“And I tried to see if I’d avoid interacting with my married male colleague, the result seemed to be no, probably because I’m aware that nothing can develop between.”

Have you interacted with you married male colleague, or you’ve avoided interacting? What was the nature of this interaction – romantic or just friendship?

“Can there be a friendship which I keep in touch with somebody without leading to a formal romantic relationship?”

Are you asking if there can be a friendship between a man and a woman without it turning into a romantic relationship?

“These days I’ve been so over the “connection” or the idea of reconciliation (even though I’m sure that I will neither initiate nor respond to him further), it still upset me a little when reading something suggesting a third party.”

Are you saying it upsets you that he was seeing other women as well, and not just you?

It seems you’re having a hard time letting him go, and it means you still need something from him. In my previous post, I asked you what is it that you need from him, and I speculated that if might not even be love, but respect. That’s because you seemed quite disturbed about him not replying to your chats, suggesting that it means he doesn’t value you as much as you do him (“in the last contacts, I noticed that he’d respond in rather long hours (please note again that in the first year, he replied quickly and almost daily), which is opposite to what I often did, and that shows an imbalance of how I and he values the connection. Maybe I simply expect to be valued equally.“).

By him not replying, he showed he values you less, and this seems to be the most painful part for you.

“Can you please give me an example of “start valuing yourself”?”

Valuing yourself may manifest in e.g. not accepting an open relationship but looking for men who are capable of a committed relationship. Valuing yourself can also mean expressing your needs in a relationship and not keeping quiet, fearing that your needs might be selfish.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Tee.

Dear Neverdyed,

thanks for clarifying. Anita once noticed (and you confirmed it) that sometimes you use vague language, because you don’t want to reveal that you still care about this man. You’re a little ashamed that you still have feelings for him. But please know that the first step in healing is actually to admit all your feelings, even if they’re immature or inappropriate or illogical, or whatever. We can’t switch off our feelings on command, because they reflect our deeper needs, our wounding, our hopes and dreams. We need to work through and process those feelings, and only then can they transform. Only then can we let go.

I’m sure that there can be a friendship between a man and a woman, because I do have such a “pure” friendship going on, just wondered if I could be like that with that man, and you probably would agree that it’s not too possible as long as I still “hold on” to a degree.

Yes, as long as you have feelings for him and e.g. expect him not to contact you when he’s with other women, it means it hurts you when he’s with other women, so clearly, it can’t be friendship on your part. If you would be honestly unaffected and could even be happy for him if he’s happy with someone else, that would mean you could be his friend. But you don’t need to be his friend. It’s okay not to be friends with men you’re attracted to, where you cannot necessarily keep a “pure” friendship.

And yes, it upsets (or upset) me to think if he has chosen other women over me, I think it left me feeling not good enough.

OK, so one issue could be your sense of not being good enough. Do you often criticize and judge yourself that you’re not good enough?

As for what I need from him, I read the question as “what did he give to make me stuck on this connection?”, and thought the answer were the good old times, but what I remember better now are those bitter moments.

What was good about the “good old times”? How did the relationship look like? How did you feel back then? Answering these questions will help you identify what it is that you really miss now.

Dear Neverdyed,

By vague language, did you mean that I hadn’t admitted my real feelings towards him?

No, I meant you sometimes use vague language here on the forum. For example, you asked ““Can there be a friendship which I keep in touch with somebody without leading to a formal romantic relationship?” – you asked in general terms, when actually you wanted to ask if you can be friends with this particular man.

Other parts I had trouble understanding are probably due to your language style, and not because you wanted to sound vague on purpose. But anyway, I could understand everything once you’ve clarified it.

As for those questions, I can answer them for sure, but maybe it’s more important for me to feel/experience good again, right?

Yes, but if you know what made you feel good back then (let’s say you felt appreciated and important – just as an example), you then know what it is that you’re missing in your personality. If you miss feeling appreciated and important, you’d need to develop a sense of self-worth. If you miss feeling loved, you’d need to develop love for yourself. And so on… The way you felt in the “good old times” is an indicator of what you want to create for yourself in the present, but not by waiting for another man to give it to you, but by developing it within your own being.

Wishing you a nice weekend too!

• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Tee.

Dear Neverdyed,

And yesterday I kind of remembered a possibly significant reason that has been “preventing” me to have fun as usual: the travel ban, since it’s a tradition for me to do so every year, and I usually relax much when being on holiday.

Yes, traveling can be a lot of fun… And it would be wonderful if you could feel good “by yourself”, i.e. feeling good enough and worthy, and not needing someone else to feel good about yourself. I do hope the travel ban will lift by the summer and there’ll be more opportunity to travel.