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Roberta.
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August 30, 2026 at 8:56 pm #460741
Thomas168ParticipantI was reading some Buddhist texts and came across the Dharma of Causation. Does anyone know what it is or what it means? I thought it meant something about the cause of suffering which is referred to in the Four Noble Truths. The Four Noble truths talks about the nature of suffering. Why it happens and how it can end.
1. The truth about suffering. Life involves dissatisfaction, pain, emotional upheaval. Happy moments do not last forever.
2. The cause of suffering is the desire for things (or situations) and attachments. It comes from not truly understanding the truth of how reality would really work.
3. Suffering can end.
4. The path to liberation.This doesn’t mean that one will not suffer or there will never be any pain. People who have experienced the truth of one’s nature still live in this world. Still have situations which will make them cry out and experience pain. But, when one experiences the truth then one understands that everything changes. We go from one moment in life to the next. The peace that we have inside doesn’t have to be lost in the moment.
The Dharma of causation says the cause will find the right condition for the effects to come about. Could be said to be linked to Karma. One’s actions provides the the cause and the conditions allows for the effects to come about. One plants an orange seed then the orange tree will grow. Nothing in life arises by itself without reason.
Well, if you have more understanding about this then please let me know. When old woman who complained about her husband’s drinking to my friend. After listening to her full story. He said that she was to blame. It turned out that it was her that caused her husband to drink. Her husband took pride in his work. But his boss did not let him do his work right and always criticized him. He comes home to his wife who talks down to him. Making him feel bad for not listening to the boss. So, being disrespected, he stay away from home and goes out drinking. So, learning this, she changes her behavior She began to care about his work, about him. And her husband changes his behavior and stops drinking. This didn’t happen right away. It took time to change.
Was my friend right to tell this woman that she was to blame for her husband’s drinking? Was he too direct? Does the end justify the means? I don’t know. I was stunned by this and the way things turned out.
August 31, 2026 at 3:55 am #460744
AlessaParticipantHi Tommy
I lost the first reply again. Not having good luck with it recently.
I think it’s all really a side effect of being human.
None of us are all knowing. Often we have to deal with situations without knowing what to expect, without having the skills to handle the situation, knowing or how to handle things appropriately. So we try our best, hope for the best, because ultimately no one wants bad things to happen. Yet they do because life.
I think a healthy way to deal with the painful feelings is to reflect and consider what can to do next.
And really, that’s what the situation you shared is about (at least to me).
Difficult boss, husband that drinks, wife that complains because husband is out drinking. It’s kind of a self fulfilling cycle.
I don’t think the wife is the cause persay, but she was able to help her husband’s suffering and in turn he helped her by cutting down on his drinking. That’s what partnership is about teamwork. Husband and wife against the problems. Someone has to break the cycle and it could be broken in any number of ways.
It might not have been communicated perfectly. But it was communicated in a way that was made sense to the wife and could be acted on.
What do you think? 🩵
August 31, 2026 at 9:57 am #460755
RobertaParticipantHi
Causes & conditions so an orange seed is planted – the only thing that can grow from it is an orange tree not an apple tree etc, then the seed needs the right conditions to grow ie sunshine & rain. – some seeds can stay dormant for many years until the right conditions for it to germinate & then it needs more & extra conditions for it to actually bear fruit ie the orange blossom has to be pollinated.
There is an old saying you get more with honey than vinegar that was basically the advice the woman received she stopped nagging (vinegar) & listened & was understanding & supportive of her husbands problems (honey)
August 31, 2026 at 8:47 pm #460757Thomas168ParticipantHello Alessa,
Was the lost post more thoughtful or considerate? If yes then I take it with both hands and gratitude. If not then your second post was full of kindness and I am thankful for that.
My friend was patient and wise. Me? Not so much. I tend to be the bull in the China shop. For me, I would have said that she needed to talk with her husband and find out what is wrong. Putting the blame for her distress squarely on his shoulders for drinking. But, confrontation doesn’t necessarily get the result one wants.
Hi Roberta,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, the orange seed will not grow into an apple tree. And some seeds will not grow because the conditions are not right for them to grow. I always thought of that as Karma. When one spends one’s life fighting all the time, the energy is dark and that is what one attracts. Some people think of Karma as instant justice. But as far as I know there is no agency to produce this type of justice. i could be wrong?? Honey versus Vinegar? I think each has its uses. One can clean a teapot full of mineral settlements with vinegar better than with honey. But, honey goes better with the cup of tea.
I truly enjoy the responses. They are enlightening. Hopefull they will someday help me make a few steps forward. Thanks.
Tommy
September 1, 2026 at 7:06 pm #460775Thomas168ParticipantRoberta,
Got to say that your post has got me thinking. The orange seed is the cause. The condition is the soil, water and warmth. The effect is the sprouting of the seed. The consequence is the fruit from the tree. The cycle completes when the fruit produces the seed. So, then how does this relate to the Four Noble Truths? How can I use this information to understand the path to liberation from suffering? I am remembering many summer nights feeling the cool breeze on my face. Time spent sitting in quiet. Then when not quiet, pondering how not to suffer old age and pain. The calm and the peace of the moment was like the surface of the lake. The suffering of pain was the waves rippling out from the disturbance. I don’t have answers. Just more questions.
Well, maybe I spend too much time in thoughts.
September 2, 2026 at 2:17 pm #460785RobertaParticipantHi Thomas
I remember one of my teachers saying pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
When we reject what is happening, that is when suffering occurs. My mum suffered because she perceived that her body had betrayed her when she got cancer.
On an easy level when I have a cold, I concur that “I have a cold”, but correct them mental chatter that say “I am suffering from a cold”.
Practicing this way with the small things in life, hopefully I will be able to approach lifes bigger challenges in an equanimous way including my own death.
I still get my knickers in a twist about loads of stuff, but I can now more quickly see a broader perspective & am able to laugh at my self, thanks to the buddhist teachings & approach to life.
RobertaSeptember 3, 2026 at 2:58 am #460791Thomas168ParticipantHello Roberta,
It seems like an easy thing to do. To separate the pain from the suffering. But, it is not. When I feel sick, it feels like I am suffering although it is only being sick. When pain attacks, it is hard to say this is only pain. Maybe many more years of meditation might help to separate the two or to go thru the pain and drop the suffering.
Lately, I have come to realize how much I am my body. Everything this life offers comes thru this existence thru my body. Pain and pleasure. Enjoyment of tasting foods. Spent many hours pondering what the heck I really am. So, when this body dies, so will this ego. This thought that I am and I exist. Memories will be lost. Identity will disappear. I still don’t know what I am besides this body.
Then, I question whether experiencing enlightenment will really reveal the truth and show that one is more than this body? We live such a short life. My sister passed away in her early forties from Cancer. I do fear Cancer. Pain. The doctors had her on morphine in the late stages. It isn’t that I don’t want to see the broader aspects. Rather painful experiences pull me back.
Oh, I still wish to believe in Buddhism. And try to spend time just sitting. Hoping for the path to liberation starts to light up the way.
Tommy
September 3, 2026 at 10:48 am #460796RobertaParticipantHi Tommy
Cor there is some big questions within in your last post Who/what am I? What happens after I die. What is enlightenment & what is it like to experience it?
To be honest I have not a clue about any of these things even though I too have pondered them & have not come to any conclusion. This does not stop me trying to walk the buddhist path, which in my humble opinion is way better than the drunken, selfish strumpet mode that I was operating mindlessly in before. Sometimes by pausing & looking back we can see how far we have come & that can give us faith/motivation to carry on with this long journey.
RobertaSeptember 3, 2026 at 1:40 pm #460800AlessaParticipantHi Tommy
Hmm pain and illness. The more you think about them the worse you feel. It is a skill to learn to move past the initial thought and onto something else. Everyone is different too, got to find what helps you. It’s a journey sometimes figuring out what helps and what doesn’t. 🩵
Well, I can already tell you are much more than your body, even without enlightenment. 😊
I guess, I disagree with the premise that thinking about pain is the sole cause of suffering because in its own right, pain is difficult too.
It would be foolish not to have a healthy fear of cancer and pain, especially after witnessing it. You have seen particularly a lot of pain and death when it comes to your loved ones.
But I think it gives you an important perspective because it cuts through some of the philosophical aspects to the practical issues that are faced. 🩵
September 5, 2026 at 1:56 pm #460825RobertaParticipantHi
I have not had big physical pain in my life, so I can not comment on that.
so I will share about small pain – a couple of months ago it was a Sunday afternoon I notice my breathing was different & I was coughing a bit. I recognized this as a chest infection & that I would not be able to go to see the doctor till the morning. I did not want to allow my mind to ruminate & because I knew I would have to sit up rather than lie down thru the night to help with my breathing, sleep would be sporadic if at all, so I decided to use that time to listen to dharma talks, do meditation & prayers this way I did not add mental anguish to my physical discomfort.
I went to the doctors early the next day & he confirmed my diagnosis & I got a prescription for antibiotics. Problem solved.September 5, 2026 at 8:44 pm #460830Thomas168ParticipantHey Roberta,
Thanks for your posts. It really is a tough thing to be able to separate pain from mental suffering. When sick and coughing, it feels like suffering. The hurt rings thru the body. Only sometimes can I feel that separation from the body to what I believe feels like me. I have heard of tasks given to novices to go into the cold and sit in meditation. They produce heat and do not feel the cold. I don’t know if this is some sort of power or prajna. Or maybe some sort of mental training. But, truth is that one may understand there is a difference in feeling pain and the mental suffering. But, the ability to actually control the difference in oneself?? I do not know.
Is it as simple as knowing there is pain and not to let the mind ruminate the pain and turn it into suffering? Or is there something more to separating the pain and the truth of one’s nature? Is it just the thoughts or is there something more? IDK.
There are stories of amazing things which masters have exhibited. I do not know if they are true. But, it is clear that I wish to learn more. And I am willing to listen to anyone who has the truth behind their words. I have met a few people who definitely showed their enlightened nature. You know from their manner and from their words. It just reaches inside and you know. It can’t be faked. Some know things and spout it out from simple learning. But, the truth doesn’t come from that place. So you know.
I dream too much. And am very tired now. Sorry for my rambling. Yes, I know I am rambling and yet I continue. So why hit submit? Because the three truths can not remain hidden. The sun, the moon and one’s nature. I thank all who have chosen to reply to this thread.
September 5, 2026 at 11:37 pm #460834AlessaParticipantHi Tommy
There’s a lot of science behind pain. Emotional pain, physical pain, social, noise. These things all often process in our brain through the pain centre. Sleep deprivation makes it worse.
Our bodies have threat detection. It’s kind of scaled on how quickly in the worst case it might kill you. Breathing > temperature > dehydration > minor injuries > hunger > chronic pain > stress
Breathing issues cause anxiety, so treating the anxiety is important. Essentially what Roberta did. When your immune system activates to fight against infection, it can cause physical pain. Women have robust immune systems to protect babies during pregnancy. Men have weaker immune systems.
Managing neurotransmitters determines our mood. Sunlight, rewarding distractions.
Understanding things helps me. Lots of little things can help lessen suffering without even considering the mind. It’s a physical balancing act. Even something as simple as electrolyte imbalance causes physical weakness. When I had stomach flu. I was legitimately surprised how much a rehydration solution helped because I physically couldn’t eat and could barely drink at the time.
Is there any wonder the outcome during illness can be low mood? If all our needs aren’t taken care of? 🩵
Media is also important because our brains aren’t that smart. What we watch is perceived as our immediate physical environment. So if it’s stressful it affects us.
I remember you have blood pressure medication. Does it have a side effects for your breathing? I seem to remember that some can? 🩵
September 6, 2026 at 12:53 pm #460844RobertaParticipantHi Tommy
But, truth is that one may understand there is a difference in feeling pain and the mental suffering. But, the ability to actually control the difference in oneself?? I do not know.A person can understand truth intellectually, but if they are dare I say it, not humble enough to at least give it a go, then they stand no chance of achieving it. It is like reading & understanding about how to run a marathon, ordering all the right kit, but if you dont get your butt off of the sofa…….
The Buddhas teachings are a path to liberation, one has to at least try to walk the talk that’s why we’re called dharma practioners we actually practice rather than just intellectualize & theorize. All talk & no walk doesn’t get you very far.
But hey I am just a bear of very little brain who just takes slow tiny steps in the hope of going in the right direction.
Best wishes
RobertaSeptember 6, 2026 at 1:01 pm #460845RobertaParticipantP.s A friend of mine was caring for an old man who had written about & taught higher level teachings, she was there one day when his teacher a rinpoche admonished him for how little he had actually put even the basics of it into practice in real life over the years.
September 7, 2026 at 3:43 am #460853Thomas168ParticipantHello Alessa,
I think you are trying to say that understanding helps to bring the body back to normal function using medication. But, it really isn’t about the science. I know we are of the body. Our consciousness is tied to the body. Being sick pulls the mind down. Being healthy lets us do other things. I think Buddhism is more about finding the experience of the truth about ourselves. Without the experience, there is a small understanding of ourselves. With that experience, our understanding expands greatly. And yet, the external world stays pretty much the same.
Medications, yes, I do take quite a few now. But, there doesn’t seem to be any unwanted side effects. So much is tied to our bodies. Guest that is why they call it a spiritual journey??
Hello Roberta,
Thanks for the Admonishment. I completely understand the need for actual practice in one’s life. Talk is just the mind going over and over the same steps. It doesn’t bring one further along the path. But, being human, we all do need to have the mind settled with understanding to move forward. Well, at least, that is my belief. So, yes, more practice.
Oh, the idea that there are phases or that one is moving in steps toward enlightenment, it is all ghosts or phantoms. It is all a trick of the mind. One is either on this side of the experience or on the other side. One can’t polish a roof tile into a mirror. But the work must be done to enter the stream.
This conversation has been a great help to me. Thank you all.
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