Hi Tee,

No, I live in an apartment building. I meant that in general: that rain is good for the crops out there in the fields 🙂

Oh I see, I agree though here I like the starting of the winter the cool breeze and lot of fresh green veggies available to cook

Yeah, I guess so. It’s my learned helplessness that was telling me differently. That’s what I’ve realized recently: that I adopted learned helplessness in many areas of my life (due to my childhood and upbringing), and it’s been a slow process to “unlearn” it. The most recent but long-lasting example is my health problems, which triggered a lot of my childhood trauma.

And it actually occurred to me that you’re the opposite of me in that sense: whereas my “modus operandi” is learned helplessness (believing that I am weak, and relying too much on other people to help me/save me), yours seems to be excessive self-reliance, to the point to pushing other people away. In other words, I am too needy, while you seem to be not needing anyone, or rather, not wanting to need anyone.

Oh I see, I didn’t know so thanks for sharing. Then how can same kind of wound could have opposite ends of spectrum? Also in my case excessive self-reliance is depleting my energy quickly and burning me out time to time yet still attacking my self-esteem. Like I’d be like I can do it no matter what and then when I’m not able to I blame myself subconsciously. Because in my head I’m like what others can do? I have to rely on myself to get things done.
Because my trust issues adds up in this as well. But we can change our “modus operandi” right? How you’re still coping with feeling helpless?

Both of those are defense mechanisms to a similar type of childhood wounding, but they are on the opposite ends of the spectrum. You had a very criticizing father and a mother who didn’t protect you, whereas for me it was a very criticizing mother and a father who didn’t protect me. Your mother and my father were more interested in keeping the “peace” in the house, while less interested in their child’s well-being.

My father was more interested in appeasing my mother, than in protecting me. He would minimize and try to explain away my mother’s behavior. He was gaslighting both himself and me that what is happening is not a big deal. I believe your mother was the same?

Yeah, I guess my mother thought peace in the family means more than my protection or my mental health and to be honest even now my parents aren’t much aware about like mental health is a thing. They think if you’re getting basic needs, you should be happier and kind of materialistic happiness. Because of the small village mentality. Also My mother did told me most of her life all she did is just calm my father’s anger because of relatives and other things going on. Which I think is very toxic on my father’s side. I wouldn’t be able to bear that behaviour any longer that’s why I started living on my own much earlier. I guess she just didn’t think about standing up for herself. Which could be the same case for your father?

Of course, when I was a child I didn’t know that my father’s silence meant that he isn’t able to confront my mother. Instead, I believed that I was the problem and that my mother is right. My father’s silence meant a confirmation that I was a faulty child, that something is wrong with me. So he was complicit in my mother’s emotional abuse. He was a silent bystander, even though he never personally treated me badly.

Anyway, I believe we got a double whammy of one abusive parent and the other silent/complicit. And it ruined our self-esteem, because the complicit parent didn’t protect us from the abusive one, and so the only message we’ve received was that we are bad and faulty. At least that’s the message I’ve received.

Yeah that’s right and I think main issue here is our ruined self-esteem as a result which isn’t easier to heal faster. So now that you are aware that you weren’t the faulty child yet it’s still rooted in you? That’s what you mean?
In my case luckily it’s not bad as before (But still) I do feel I have to achieve much more and I’m not good enough just yet.

You did say your mother was kind and caring in many instances, and so was my father (specially when it was just the two of us spending time together, going on holidays, hikes etc). But when it comes to confronting my mother about her behavior (both towards me and towards himself), my father was weak. And so her message (that I am not good enough) never got counter-balanced by something positive.

Yeah I think my mother’s behaviour was the same.

Maybe I am repeating myself because we’ve been talking about this before. But it is what I’ve been thinking recently – how our defense mechanisms are on the opposite sides of the spectrum. Me: too dependent and needy. You: too “independent” and not wanting to need anyone.

And it was not that hard for you to opt for total self-reliance – because you were quite capable and managed to get out unscathed from many tough situations/adventures, without needing your parents to save you. Which I guess strengthened the sense that you don’t need them and can manage on your own (in lot of situations I was alone and I saved my own self. There are some situations where people did helped me but still...)

So once you were old enough (around 16), you stopped relying on your parents for physical survival and sustenance, and you moved out. You didn’t need them for emotional sustenance either, because they’ve hurt you, each in their own way. The result is that you became totally self-reliant. (In comparison, I still felt like a child at 20, and couldn’t imagine to move out and live independently.)

It’s not a bad thing if we’re physically/financially self-reliant (that’s something we should actually strive for as adults – to be able to support ourselves). But your self-reliance stretches into the emotional realm too (But basically for relationship you’re right I’ve been hurt and I was alone so I thought just myself is enough). And this is giving you trouble now…

I agree with you. And the thing is that I never been taught to give relationships priority you know. That’s something I discovered after my earlier 20s that building relationships romantic or generally it’s really important. And the self-reliance fueled that wrong belief even more. And the funny part is that I have trust issues even though till now I’ve met like really kind, helpful and amazing people. Generally takes me long to trust in the person. But what I’m glad about is that I was never into transactional relationships like I’m only helping you just because you helped me. I always have this mindset of If I’m able to help someone then I’m going to help. I don’t want something in return.

But in previous romantic relationship part I was like a fixing figure so that also didn’t fulfilled me either so..

Oh talking about that you know that women are more likely to fall in love when she have sex with the same person? But for men it’s not the same. Doctor told me that 😂

I told her If she wants we can also stop physical things but she was like naah.. But anyways I guess we’re both little tired to find something more suitable for ourselves..

Well, trust has to be built. I was talking about the person having a track record of being trustworthy, e.g. of showing up when they’ve promised, of not laughing at you when you show vulnerability, of supporting you when something bad happens (e.g. when your cat died). After a while, you realize you can trust them that they won’t hurt you or betray you.

Hmm in that case I did meet mostly the nice women. Doctor is extra nice and sensitive though. But I did get your point. And the thing is I guess my senses are stronger in that regard if I’m around disrespectful and insensitive type of women I wouldn’t even think about going out with her or even act aloof when she tries to get along with me. But I guess I do have to try to meet more women not just for romantic relationship but to remove my shyness to ask out someone when I actually like them

Fast love can be infatuation – it’s when we have our rose-colored glasses on and idealize the person and fail to see the warning signs. But for you, I guess you’re afraid to fall in love – you are afraid to form an attachment to the person – because you are afraid they’d hurt you. I think that whenever we get attached to someone, we need something from them, and them disappearing from our lives would hurt us. So that’s a risk that you are not willing to take yet.

I think that’s why you don’t feel “fast love” – because you’re preventing yourself from falling in love, i.e. to form that attachment.

Ohh right definitely I am afraid of falling in love. It feels like I’m trying to protecting too much or like not letting it loose enough you know.. and I don’t think I need something from them. But more like fear of wasting time and not working out and just dull over the time you know. Because again I still have the fear that I’m not getting any younger

Yes, and you’re actually getting to know her, and based on what you said, she seems trustworthy. But your fear doesn’t let you start trusting her. It doesn’t let you fall in love with her either.

Hmm I guess so.. and I do trust her. But somehow I’m still not trusting in this relationship working out with her

Yes, it is 🙂 You’re seeing it clearly. Which is a good place to start healing 🙂

I’ve got some ideas why you have so much mistrust, and I think it’s related to your mother not really supporting you, but making allegiance with your father (excusing his abusive behavior, and telling you to be the mature one and tolerate abuse). So it was a kind of betrayal.

How do you feel about all this? We can explore it some more, if you feel like it…

To be honest I’m not sure if that’s the root cause it may be I don’t know… and yeah we can explore

Maybe she was actually jealous of your enthusiasm and didn’t like it? It wouldn’t be your fault, of course, but maybe she is intimidated by people who seem more confident and energetic than she is?

In any case, I am very sorry. It’s their loss not hiring you, because you would have been a great asset… But anyway, you’ll find something else, something close to your heart, and hopefully very soon!

She did seem intimidated but I couldn’t just hide my enthusiasm because I practiced a lot and I was just more hopeful so..

Yeah thanks I hope so.. I took few days of break for applying. I didn’t just felt like it. I started applying again though so let’s see.

Hi Tee,

I can imagine how excessive self-reliance is depleting you quickly. And then you blame yourself when you’re burnt out and haven’t succeeded in your (Herculean) task. You’re expecting a lot (too much) of yourself, you give yourself (too) big tasks, and then you’re putting yourself down when you don’t succeed. Would you agree with that?

I mean I don’t know if I’m expecting a lot and I might be comparing myself with others here like others are already doing it then I can do it too. So I tell myself it’s doable. Because I think some people are dealing with more things than me yet still reaching their goals and finishing tasks then I can do it too. And whenever I try to give excuses to myself about something I feel guilty and yet still lot of times I procrastinate a lot.

Yeah, your lack of trust has developed gradually, with your parents (and I guess other adults too, like your grandfather?), in your childhood. And it remained a blueprint for how you view all other relationships. Even if you meet kind and loving people, your core belief (“I cannot trust people”) will be still working in your subconscious and will make you guarded and cautious.

Yes, we can change our modus operandi. A part of it is changing our false core beliefs. Mine would be “I am helpless”. Yours would be “I have to rely on myself”.

I agree it makes me remember our conversation about old beliefs and I guess therapy did helped a bit but not very significant. And just I’m not seeing therapist anymore. I do try to journaling and work on removing my old beliefs and rooted fears. What kind of things that I can do to remove my old beliefs and rooted fears more efficient way? Kinda like rewiring our brain you know

Yeah, I think the key issue for my father was his own upbringing with a “martyr” covert narcissistic mother and him always suppressing his needs to trying to make his mother happy. That was what formed him. And my mother was a similar “martyr” (in her own eyes), though not narcissistic. But his dynamic was similar: trying to please and appease his mother, and later his wife. So there was no way he would stand up for himself. I mean, he did have success in his career, but he was pretty suppressed at home.

For your mother, she was perhaps financially dependent on your father as well, so that came into play as well? And the whole patriarchy thing, which I guess was still strong while you were growing up, right? So I can see why it might have been more difficult for her to standup for herself than it was for my father.

Ah similar because my mother is also suppressed at home. It’s not like before but still yeah. And yeah patriarchy thing is really strong in small village environment.

No, I don’t believe I am unworthy any more, but I still have a lot of procrastination when it comes to my career and the things I’d like to achieve. It’s like I am frozen a bit. And having all these health issues, and worrying about them, isn’t helping either: it makes me worry about it and ruminate and I end up feeling paralyzed. Like, I know what I want, but I am not working towards it.

It’s related to my childhood “freeze” I think, where my mother feared too much for me and was the happiest when I was by her side, in “safety”. Riding a bike was seen as risky by her, so my parents never bought me a bike and I never learned how to ride (I think I’ve told you that already). So it’s this “deep freeze”, deep fear of facing challenges.

Ah I see, I know it’s not easy for you but have you ever tried being a reckless child at this age? Like I don’t care what happens to me I want to do it means I want to do it. I guess because concerned and matured adult would think and ruminate a lot. Reckless child wouldn’t. and who knows you can get good results although it’s something really out of your comfort zone but something that you can try and feel like you got the power.

And once you got taste of that feeling I guess your fear and anxiety would slowly disappear.

Yeah, it seems your sense of not being good enough manifests in you pushing yourself above the limits, expecting too much of yourself (and believing you need to do it all by yourself). Whereas for me, I am not pushing myself at all, I am frozen. Again, we have the opposite reaction to a similar injury…

It’s like you would need to tell yourself: “I am good enough and I am doing enough“. And I would need to tell myself “I am good enough and I can do this next step.” Perhaps 🙂

 

Haha yeah, you’re right. Well, we got to try. Right!?

Okay, so you believe you need to achieve the same as someone else, and then if you don’t, you beat yourself up, you feel bad about yourself (I feel guilty), and then your performance gets even worse (I procrastinate a lot).

Comparison with others is something you were exposed to during your entire childhood: both your father and your grandfather were comparing you with other kids all the time, right? And now you are doing it to yourself. You’ve internalized your father and grandfather’s voice and it became a part of your inner critic. So comparing yourself to others is another way of telling yourself “I am not good enough/successful enough/rich enough/high on the ladder enough”.

That’s why you “feel like times is passing too fast” (the title of your thread) – because there is a pressure to perform, to achieve, to push, push, push… because someone else is doing it better and faster than you.

Would you agree with that?

Yes I agree with that and thanks for that reminder again. I need to write this down again because apparently I do need this same reminder repeatedly time to time.

 

Comparing ourselves to others is very toxic – it doesn’t motivate us but makes us feel like a failure. It’s not like a positive encouragement, but it always comes with a lot of self-judgment. And it eventually prevents us from thriving, because we feel like a failure, and so we self-sabotage.

So my suggestion is to stop the comparison. See it for what it is: a toxic feature of your inner critic, something you’ve learned from your father and grandfather.

There is a great youtube video “How to stop comparing yourself to others“, which just popped up in my feed, by Therapy in a nutshell. She says some fantastic things, e.g. that by comparing ourselves to others, we believe that our worth is dependent on how we score compared to others, how many people are above us or below us on the “ranking list”. And this always lead to disappointment because someone will always be better and more successful than us.

Bottom line: by comparing ourselves to others we are allowing our worth (which is inherent) to be dependent on external factors. And we are setting ourselves up for failure.

Yes! You’re right that’s why one of the reasons I’m using LinkedIn much less than before. Mainly for communication and network building. Because it would give me that “ranking list” pressure even more

A better approach, she says, is to focus on integrity (living in accordance to your true values) rather than comparison. Here is an example: if we want to lose weight, the comparison mindset would say “Oh, Martha is in a such a great shape. I have to lose weight already!” Whereas the integrity mindset would say “My health is important to me. I will cut down on junk food and exercise more, because I want to be healthy.”

I found this pretty cool: integrity mindset vs comparison mindset. Never heard it described this way, and loved it!

Anyway, just wanted to share this…

Thanks for the example I guess one way or another subconsciously I am comparing myself with others and I agree and “living in accordance to your true values” I did journal about this quite a while ago and I put lot of thought into that but so many things came up yet I still wrote it down. So I believe (not 100% sure) that my core values are Freedom, Simplicity, Honesty and Altruism…with added Open mindedness, Adventure, Wisdom, Faith and Inner peace. But how can I be sure what are my true values?

How have you been? I hope you are fine…

Well, Healthwise I’m doing alright but last week when I went for donate my blood, they gave me this report and told me that I have to gain my weight and hemoglobin %

And Idk what’s happening, because I’m rarely eating out and 99% of the time I’m having home cooked meals mostly full of green vegetables curries.

How about you? In your condition healthy food can make a difference?