March 8, 2019 at 11:12 am #283713
My therapist did meet him twice in couples counseling. It wasn’t then she considered him a narcissist. But she did know that he made me out to be the crazy one always. He did expect me to be perfect and she always asked me to look outside of myself and to stop blaming myself. Describing his mother to her in therapy as she was a main stressor my therapist said she had narcissistic traits and didn’t seem to make me feel good. I am not crazy in or out of a intimate relationship. I do have wounds and bad reactions that I believe I am working on. I am happy to hear you are now BPD free and in a healthy relationship. It is nice when sometime actively chooses to look into themselves and change, my ex does not have that gift.
I know we are all human but have you ever read these stories? They are not typical. I know there are a**holes in this world but what these people do is cruel and planned out yes it is. My ex didn’t get a financial benefit from me but he benefited very much. He was a blind man and I was his trophy woman. I made him look good. His family adored me to begin with and so did he. What he benefited from? I was his guide, I did EVERYTHING for him. I drove him everywhere, I was his woman and caretaker you can say. I was made to be perfect for him and his family. That’s what they expected and yes it was my wounds that allowed me to put up with it. Now after learning I would say I am not perfect, take it or leave it. But I please and pleased until I couldn’t take it. And then I heard of boundaries and started to put them up. Saying no to things and expecting more from him as he should have and he was going behind my back finding a replacement all along because he knows no one can keep up with a perfect image. That is intentional and that is not human! He admitted many things before I left. I asked him if he was a narcissist and he stuttered out of the question and said he couldn’t be full blown because he does have some empathy but he knew exactly what I meant.
What human being, plans a proposal with my family for me, and lays in bed with me the night before I learned of his double life discussing loving me and dying to spend the rest of his life with me. Only to find out he was discussing his with other women the same exact night!!! Then I leave we brake up and tells me he is suicidal because I left him and he is so alone. All about him, had no empthay for how crushed I was. No empathy for destroying our life. He said sorry many times but I believe he was sorry he was caught and exposed and that’s what triggered suicidal thoughts. “He was alone” that’s what he benefited from, my company and my doing what “he needed”!
i wish I had the energy to think and give you more examples but this discussion is exhausting.
🙁March 8, 2019 at 12:02 pm #283717
These mental diagnoses have their uses when done by capable and responsible professionals certified to make these diagnoses, following meeting with the patient repeatedly, asking questions and studying the patient. To come up with these diagnoses otherwise, based on people’s stories, is simply irresponsible.
(No one is born with a personality disorder, not a single person. It is the accumulations of symptoms over a period of years, usually a bit over two decades that “earn” a person a diagnosis).
Better not look at a diagnosis and see if a person fits into it and then figure that everything else you read about the diagnosis is likely to be true to the particular person.
Better look at the BASICS of a person’s behavior, for ex:: is he honest with you or does he lie?/ does he keep his word or break it; does he walk his talk?/ does he treat you respectfully or disrespectfully?/is he aggressive toward you?/does he blame you repeatedly and never looks within himself for mistakes or wrongdoings on his part?
Did you say he is blind, partially blind or completely blind? That is something you did not mention before!
I will be away from the computer for a few hours, then back shortly and gone till tomorrow morning, I hope you rest from this exhausting discussion, we don’t have to continue with the personality disorder topic, not at all!
anitaMarch 8, 2019 at 7:28 pm #283761
Hello Anita, he is completely blind. I thought I had mentioned it. Yes a blind man. Who put me through hell. After this discussion and trying to consider he is not a narcissist I did something I probably shouldn’t have. I reached out to the women who were contacting me after break up. Since at that time I just blocked them. This woman told me the craziest of things. He is sick this man. She said all of the things he did to me, claimed he loved her for months and even tried to have a baby????? Then was getting caught in pathological lies and then woman reaching out to her. Said he owes her hundreds as he was getting money from her. She says he does this to a lot of women. I’m so sick to my stomach. I was sleeping in a bed next to this man for years thinking I was safe and in love. How does that happen? I can’t focus after that. It’s so traumatizing. If that’s not a disorder, what do you consider it? It’s sick. It’s not normal. It’s not a normal affair. He is doing this to many many women since our break up. I’m so drained ? And at the same time I feel bad for him? How could I miss it think of someone who is doing this? It’s disgusting. I just know he was good to me but broke me down eventually. I think he tried to have something normal but he can’t even help himself. He believes these lies. He is so sick now. How could I not care when he was in my life for 5 years?March 9, 2019 at 7:36 am #283789
I am trying to understand: this man is “completely blind”. You lived with him for three years. “I was his guide, I did EVERYTHING for him. I drove him everywhere, I was his woman and caretaker”, you wrote.
I don’t think you drove him to see any other woman, have sex with her and receive money from a girlfriend, so all his activities with other women were online?
-and “tried to have a baby” with one, that happened after you left him, so she picked him up or someone else drove him to see a particular woman and have sex with her?
anitaMarch 9, 2019 at 7:52 pm #283859
So during our relationship he was using phone chat lines and staying in contact with woman he met who were from all over the states. He would receive money from some and was giving money to some. There was only 1 physical relationship he had that I know of during our time together. He was saying he was at work and going to meet up with a woman for what seems like years. I’m not sure how frequent or how sexual but I found pictures from 2 years of them on her Facebook account. There may have been more physical but I am not sure. Also this man is blind, I did drive him everywhere when we were together besides work. He uses a transportation service. But since we were together most of the time I did all the driving but he is a very independent blind man which may be hard to envision for some. He is cabable of getting around through a service, through uber and lyft services as well.
And yes, this woman met him at his place, come to find out only 3 times and I guess during those 3 times “tried to get pregnant”. I know it’s sounds crazy….it is!!!!!
Regardless, I’m not sure why I reached out or continue to look for closure when I’m sure you can agree closure is slapping me in the face with all of the disgusting things he did and continues to do.
I guess the hardest part is accepting I was just another girl to him. It seems that way since he continues an exact pattern except with me it was long term, we lived together and joined families. So it seems I was the main course and these other woman were side dishes. So gross. So hurtful! For me and for these women he pathologically lies to! Narcissistic? I think so ?March 10, 2019 at 8:29 am #283935
Well, since you brought up the Narcissist topic, a Narcissist cold heartedly plans his actions so to mentally destroy his victim, employing well thought of psychological strategies over a period of a long time for that purpose.
But if he benefited from the relationship with you (“My ex didn’t get a financial benefit from me but he benefited very much. He was a blind man and I was his trophy woman. I made him look good… I was his guide, I did EVERYTHING for him. I drove him everywhere, I was his woman and caretaker”),
-why did he aim at destroying his significant benefit, plan to destroy it, and then execute his plan over the course of a few years?
anitaMarch 10, 2019 at 12:22 pm #283973
<div>I have to bring up the topic because I am always confused by it. My ex destroyed me because I was slowly realizing the control that was being held on me by him and his family. I truly believe he comes from a narcissistic family, not to say they all have a disorder but they definitely have traits..a lot! While researching Narcissism you find that there is a pattern..Love bomb, devalue and discard. Not sure if you are aware? His family could NOT get enough of me from day 1 as well as him. They all welcomed me and treated me like I was family. He treated me like a queen. Him and I had our issues but we lived a good life. Work, going out and on the weekends forget it, always something planned. His parents lived 2 1/2 hours away from us where they had beach homes we would visit and have parties at. We went literally every other weekend. On the off weekends I was trying to make a life in a new city, or try to make plans with family my ex had in our city. Also every couple of months I’d leave to Chicago to help with my sick mom. We traveled often to see my family. Life started to be too much. The long drives to his parents and the constant demand of having to do it started to frustrate me. His mother called me almost every day and she was good to me but I started to notice that after I spoke to her I usually felt bad about myself. Like I would doubt myself. Because she always suggested I do something different. She called him every morning, throughout the day and at night before bed. His father did this as well. They gave this man no space! I started to notice we had no space. All of our decisions and plans were basically run by them first. We started to discuss which turned into arguments. So I brang up the word boundaries since it is what I learned in therapy, that I could not say no. Well I started to. And slowly him and his family started criticizing me and isolating me. I realized if you do not do what his parents want they isolate you. That is how he felt too that is why he followed their rules. For him they hold money and properties over his head. He even admitted that my last day there. He told me I was right and he knew with my new attitude his parents wouldn’t approve so he started looking for someone else. But that was a lie because he had been cheating since the beginning. But the point is I gave him everything, my heart, my soul and body and when I left I was a shell of the person I knew. He exhausted me and him and his family with their slow but steady little comments of insults chipped at my confidence and I even relied on this man for that. I relied on him for any and every thing by the end. Some times I have nightmares because I am so afraid of being that person again. My heart still cares for him because until I seen him take his mask off he was my best friend and love of my life. And I feel bad for him, with these patterns and the rampage he is on since our break up it is clear that something is wrong with him.</div>March 11, 2019 at 7:33 am #284047
I re-read your previous threads as well as the first page of this thread so to try and help you with your confusion. The best place for you to clarify your confusion is in therapy with a capable therapist over time. Here on your thread, I will give you my best understanding:
Before I do, I want to get your attention to the following: it is very important that you continue to save the money you make working and not give it to your younger brother. You wrote earlier, “(I am) Consumed with how my brother needs me, how he is making bad decisions in life.. I have saved 5000 and I will continue to save so I can put down on a condo or something to have for me. Well my brother found out and I feel like he thinks I should help him since he is not in a good financial place”-
– don’t do that, don’t give your money away, not anymore. Keep your money, save it, use it for your personal purposes, no matter how strong your urge to give any of it away to your brother or any other family member.
You lived 26 years with a mother you loved dearly who was a terrible mother to you. You wrote: “At the time I was even considering my mom was a narcissist. But as time has gone on I realize she was an amazing woman..”-
– no, she was not a Narcissist and she was not an amazing woman. She was a woman you deeply loved, as all children love their mother, and she had drugs and men as her priorities, not you.
Your father, also a drug addict, was not there for you either (“I have suffered from 2 parents with addiction”), and your older brother sexually abused you from age 5 to 13. So he was there for you in a very wrong way. Your younger brother is open to receive the money of a sister who needs that money for herself.
You have no debts to pay in regard to your family, no justifiable guilt whatsoever regarding your mother, or father or brothers, you owe nothing to no one.
When you moved out of your mother’s place to Florida, to be with “the man of (your) dreams”. you didn’t have the basics to make a healthy relationship possible, even if the man was dreamy. You didn’t see who he was, not even the fact that he was completely blind. Ever since you shared about him August last year, you never mentioned his blindness, as if you didn’t see it, as if it didn’t exist.
His blindness is a major factor to consider in a relationship and in the marriage and family you were thinking of having with him, yet you didn’t .. see it, as if you were blind to his blindness.
You wrote: “My ex destroyed me”- no, you were far from being all together when you met him and moved to Florida.
You wrote that as a result of the relationship with your ex, “I was stripped of myself. I had no confidence, I doubted myself and I lost myself”- no, he didn’t strip you of yourself, there wasn’t much of a self that you brought with you to Florida. He didn’t take your confidence away, you didn’t have much that you brought with you to Florida and he didn’t cause you to lose yourself because you were already lost for about two decades before you met him.
In the relationship with your ex, you wrote: “I was verbally abusive and an emotional wreck during out time together.. I put so much pressure on him… In the 3 years living with him I was verbally abusive when we argued which was often”- your behavior toward him was not a result of his Narcissism but a result of the troubles you brought with you to Florida.
In comparison to y0ur life in Chicago where you lived with your mother for 26 years, parts of your life with your ex was dreamy, wonderful, in comparison. But the dysfunction in the relationship, on both parties, you and him, was very significant. There was a lot of misery in your life with him, but in comparison then and after, parts of it look wonderful.
It was far from wonderful.
What the narcissist label in regard to your ex did for you was clear your confusion for a while and that felt wonderful. It cleared you from responsibility for what you were responsible for- because of this label, you were no longer responsible for abusing him for three years, it was his responsibility, he planned it all.
There is much relief in temporarily feeling not responsible for bad behavior. But the truth doesn’t let go, it doesn’t accommodate our denial of it, this is why you are still confused.
Regarding your sister in law, you were confused about her too, you found yourself “saying yes to things I don’t want to do and getting overwhelmed” and then you “exploded on her that that makes me look like the guilty one”-
-you need to not say Yes, to not interact with people who are unkind to you, and to not explode because of the anger that builds up whenever we say yes to what we want to say no to, and then get overwhelmed.
In summary, I recommend that you don’t give your money to your younger brother, end your relationship with your older brother (and his wife, your sister in law) because his eight years sexual abuse of you was never even discussed, and never resolved, if such is at all possible. Continue to have little or better, nothing to do with your father, give up completely on resuming the relationship with your ex (he was dreamy only in comparison to your life at home, in Chicago), save your money, consider psychotherapy with a capable therapist, form new contacts with new people and learn the necessary skill of being assertive, and post here anytime.
anitaMarch 20, 2019 at 11:40 am #285483
Thinking about you, Nichole, hoping you are okay!
anitaMarch 26, 2019 at 3:04 pm #286493
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. Working two jobs has me tired and my mind has been all over the place lately. Is it weird that I can’t remember much? I think I have been ok. I actually have been feeling decent. I have been trying not to let things bother me and move forward. Any ways you are correct on everything you said in your previous reply. It sometimes amazes me how you hit things on the nose. I am still struggling to accept my family as it is. It is my biggest trouble. I want nothing more than a support system with them. With love and kindness. I want us to build a better relationship but I have such back lash from people. From everyone it seems. As for my ex, you are right. Find out he was a narcissist was relieving I will say but did not clear me of my responsibility. I understand why you would think that. But I realized how much of a part I played. It was hard and I still to this day do it sometimes and I have to remember to have compassion for myself and know that my up bringing caused many bad behaviors. I take full responsibility. As you said I was not a self, I had no confidence and I honestly was looking for him to save me. That is the truth. But I did love him, and respect and was loyal to a fault. He knew I had no confidence or sense of self and took advantage that is also true. He knew I was lost and played on it. I was willing to get help. I was in therapy dealing with my childhood so I could be a better woman. His narcissistic behavior was very real, it’s hard for me to explain that to you because I feel that you don’t trust that. But in my heart I know he is. Lot of my abuse was a reaction to his gas lighting and devaluing of me. It does not take from the fact that I played a huge roll by allowing this and by abusing him back. It was a huge mess and to this very moment still hurts and kills me. I wish it weren’t so. I wish we could fix it. I have grown so much but I know he hasn’t.
I have not spoken much at all to my older brother and wife. He confronted me and I had a very assertive talk with him on how I believe he is controlling and manipulating. It was deep and so hard but I did it. They have been distant since. My other brother has been absorbed by his girlfriend and we haven’t spoken. I still pick up my niece and take her out and have seen him in passing and he is very aggressive and mean. This one hurts me most as he was my best friend and the one person in my family I thought I could trust. I am still struggling with this. I haven’t had much to do with my father. I have had alot of friend also confront me on my new attitude. I am struggling a bit right now. It is so hard to fight my mind sometimes. I have gone 30 years being a people pleaser so sometimes I feel so guilty for standing my ground. I feel like people need me. I have always been stronger and helped people. I realize how hurt and damaged these people really are. To be so cruel as my ex he must be so hurt deep down inside. This bothers me.
I am in a weird place these days but striving each day to move forward and take care of me.
Would love to hear from you.
Thanks Anita 🙂March 26, 2019 at 4:18 pm #286507
I am so glad you posted again to me. Once again, I didn’t know if I would read from you again…
I am not focused enough to read your recent post attentively. I want to read and reply to you with a fresh brain that I hope to have tomorrow morning in about 14 hours from now, looking forward to it!
anitaMarch 27, 2019 at 6:23 am #286541
I started my 3/11 post to you with my concern that you will give money away to your younger brother. In your post yesterday you wrote about him, your younger brother, if I understood correctly: “he is very aggressive and mean… he was my best friend and the one person in my family I thought I could trust. I am still struggling with this… I feel like people need me.. “- my concern is that if your younger brother is suddenly nice to you, you will feel so elated that next thing that happens is that you give him money.
Please don’t- save the money you work so hard to make, use all of it for you. Don’t give it away.
“I feel so guilty for standing my ground. I feel like people need me. I have always been stronger and helped people”- you derived some sense of self worth as a child helping your struggling family members, but it is time now to help yourself.
Think of human worth- you are not less worthy that anyone else, your well being is no less important than your brother’s. Turn your attention to yourself, do stand your ground, be strong and help yourself.
“I am still struggling to accept my family as it is. It is my biggest trouble. I want nothing more than a support system with them”-
-take deep breaths, and as you feel calm, form the intent in your brain to give up the delusion that there is a support system in your family, for you. Your parents supported their drug addictions, your brother supported his sexual needs as he abused you, your younger brother is supporting his girlfriend (and her children, if I remember correctly), and the kind words and kind acts in between the major neglect and abuse of you do not amount to support. These are like little drops of water in a dry desert, not nearly enough to quench your thirst.
So move away from the desert to a place where there is a stream of water that really can quench your thirst. It is not easy to do this but you are on your way of doing just that by working two jobs and saving your money, planning to move elsewhere, away from your father and younger brother, to a place that will also be away from your older brother.
I understand that your ex boyfriend was cruel to you, regardless of the label. He was not that stream of water that you need then. You need people who will not be cruel to you, but kind instead, and not just sometimes, in between acts of abuse, but persistently kind and never cruel.
“I realize how hurt and damaged these people really are. To be so cruel as my ex he must be so hurt deep down inside. This bothers me”- attend to your own hurt, to your own damage. Heal yourself best you can. As you do, you will see that it is very possible to be hurt and damaged and not hurt and damage other people.
A good person does not hurt and damage other people, be one of the good people and let the bad people experience the consequence of hurting you, which I hope is, not having you in their lives!
anitaMarch 29, 2019 at 10:40 pm #286959
Hi Anita, I’m sorry I’ve been working like crazy and haven’t even had time to read your response fully. But I’ve had a miserable day. A sad sad sad one! I will respond to your last response as soon as I can. But I need to unload these feelings I am having at the moment. My therapist is out of town and I haven’t seen her in a month. I think it’s over due. My grieving of my mom is back again. It comes and it goes. I still feel the guilt and I just wish so bad she was here. I know she was bad a being a mom sometimes but after all I’ve been through and awaking to life and it’s obstacles and pain I feel what she must have went through. I feel it like it is me. I have so much wisdom these days and I wish I could share it with her and more than anything I wish I could hold her. I am breaking down writing this. I am deeply sad today. I need her so bad! ?. I will never understand why I was so mean to her in her last days. How cold I was and all the boundaries I was setting. She was needy, she was difficult and she was a burden and that is exactly how she felt. Which makes me so sad for her or anyone to feel like that. We should all feel loved and have compassion. When she tried she was sweet and tender. She made me who I am. She was one of a kind. She would give anyone anything she had, it’s so hard to see her as good and bad. I’m so confused with her and with this world. I am sorry I am sad and lost at this moment. I am impulsively writing all these feelings because I’ve been holding them in. I have dreams of going to that rehab center when she called. I dream this all the time. Sometimes I have conversations out loud of what I should have asked the doctors and what I should have told her. Sometimes I replay the last convo in my head as if it was different. Please tell me it will be ok.
I should have saved her. I miss her. It’s so hard to believe that taking care of me and setting boundaries was the right thing to do when my mom was clearly so sick. Sometimes I feel like I was so wrong. I should have been there!! How do I know it’s the right thing now even? What if I’m hurting more people. I’m so confused and hurt. I’m sorry to be all over the place but I have been holding it together for a while and tonight I have to say I am a mess!
In June my mom said she felt like killing herself. I was in Florida at the time, lost in crazy land with my ex. With my clear mind in think back on how I don’t understand who I was back then that I wouldn’t be there for her. I should have left and said I need to go be with my mom but instead I was with a man who was emotionally abusing me and I was doing everything in my night to make the relationship work, meanwhile my mom was struggling. I don’t understand!
i feel so much blame and regret. I wish I could go back in time. I feel like I’ll always have this black cloud over my head. I’m done. I pray I can just fall asleep tonight. I cannot take anymore of these feelings.March 30, 2019 at 7:54 am #286977
I hope you had some sleep last night and that you feel better today. It is okay with me that you didn’t read my last post to you, read it when you will.
“tonight I have to say I am a mess!”- you felt like a mess, it doesn’t mean you were a mess.
“I feel what she must have went through. I feel it like it is me”- it is called empathy, or love. You always loved your mother and always will and because you always have, you never wanted her to hurt and when she hurt, you hurt too.
“She was needy… We should all feel loved and have compassion”- your mother, like mine, suffered a lot. And so did you and still, you suffer. And I suffered too, for decades. And millions of people suffer. This is human reality. When you hurt for your mother’s suffering, keep in mind your own suffering and everyone else you come across. Love and compassion are not common and we all suffer.
“I will never understand why I was so mean to her in her last days. How cold I was and all the boundaries I was setting”- you tried for about two decades to make your mother happy, you tried very hard, sacrificing yourself. At the end of her life, a part of you was trying to move on from her, to live your own life. You forget now how hard and how long you tried, unsuccessfully, to make her happy.
“I should have asked the doctors and what I should have told her”- wouldn’t have made a difference. Just like what you said and did before, your whole life with her, didn’t make a difference to her quality of life.
“I should have saved her”- impossible.
“Sometimes I feel like I was so wrong”- you were never wrong regarding your mother. You always loved her, always will and you tried your best. A child/ adult child cannot 100% sacrifice herself for her mother, part of the child wants to live her own life. And then all the sacrifice you did do made no difference in her life and more sacrifice, wouldn’t either.
“I should have been there!”- but you were with her for how many years, before you left to Florida? Again, what difference to her quality of life did you make by living with her for so long before leaving to Florida?
You didn’t betray your mother, Nichole. She betrayed you. And you love her and always will, no love is stronger than your love for her.
I love my mother too and I choose to not have contact with her. I dreamed about her the other night, that she needed me. But I will not contact her. Not because I feel anger at her, but because I know that I failed at making her happy when I was a child, when I was a teenager, I failed when I was in my twenties, my thirties and my forties. I don’t expect to be successful now, in my fifties, so I am not trying.
I hope to read from you soon, I want to know how you feel, what you think..?
anitaApril 8, 2019 at 12:13 pm #288121
Again I am so sorry for the delay in my response. Working 3 jobs now. Honestly not sure if I am doing it just for the saving benefits or because I am running away from myself. Thank you SOOOO much for your last post. I wish I could hug you because you sometimes save me from my thoughts. You are so wise and I am grateful. I am feeling much better since that night I wrote you but I won’t lie I still ponder my mom and the guilt but I resort back to things I know are true and have screenshots of what you write and it helps me calm down.
In response to your post back on 3/27, I’ll give you an update to where I am at. I am still saving. And doing very well at it even with my slight shopping addiction as of late. I am up to 7500 in savings. I am not giving it away or even pondering it. I am so thankful to have had the courage to save this and actually believe that I can afford a down payment and attempt to accomplish this huge goal for myself of owning a small condo. It makes me feel so good because this time last year I couldn’t imagine believing in myself this way. I do feel good enough for goals!!
I am learning that I have to get away from the drops of love I receive from family. I have accepted that but having a hard time doing it. Lately family has given me some help, atleast being with them. I am still not in much contact with my brother Daniel (the one we refer to as my younger brother but he is older.) It is hurting me though Anita. I love that boy. He has always been by my side. We both weren’t taught correctly how to love ourselves or others. I have deep empathy for him and know his heart is good. I think I am going to ask him to dinner and tell him how I feel about him giving me drops of love and neglecting me in my time of need. I don’t wish to have the same relationship we had but I would like to be on talking terms with him. I love him, him and his daughter are two of the people I love most in this world. Some days I think I need to be strong enough to love myself and make new relationships but still have to do with my family. Because I know should I ever be desperate and need help my family will be there. Any one of them. I just need to learn to heal from codependency and realize I can have my own life and beliefs and still love family from a distance. What do you think?
Also regarding my ex, you are very right. Lately, even though I think of him often, I have no urge to reach out or even know how he is doing. I am on a journey healing myself and that is most important. It does hurt me that we are all suffering though. No one is perfect, which is hard for me to accept because I always try to be. That is something I have been struggling with as well but that is for another day. As well as all the insight I have been having about my mothers life and all the good things I learned from her.
I have been a ball of emotions lately. I have been up and down but am happy with myself because I have been strong and staying on track regardless. I have been so consistent. I am proud of myself.