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I couldn't help her…

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Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
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  • July 31, 2014 at 8:57 pm #62375
    Lurker
    Participant

    Hello TB community. I find myself in need of your words of wisdom again.

    Here’s the story: I met a girl a few months back. I quickly learned she was attracted to me and decided to be open and get to know her. In very little time we became really close, we enjoyed each other’s company and I found I liked her. We started dating and everything seemed to be going well. Then, as time went and I got to know her better, I learned she’s suffered a lot in her life. As if almost everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. It’s my belief things started with her parents divorce when she was just a child. For a few years, neither of her parents took care of her. She lived with another woman close to the family but not related. Eventually, she did end up living with her mother and seeing her father. But she has a very uneasy relationship with her. As a teen she found herself in company that lead her to a chaotic and angry state of being, she used drugs and was sexually abused. (The rape was her very first sexual experience.)

    It pained me deeply to learn all of this, but I, unlike many others in her life, wasn’t about to judge her based on that. What originally drew me to her is that she is so energetic, so full of life, so driven with her life goals. It was clear early on that she has a multi-layered personality, and that’s something I’m attracted to. Sadly, as happy and lively as she seems at first sight, the inner layers are full of pain and wrath.

    So, I found myself thinking: “Why did we find each other?” And I kept coming back to her pain. I felt the deep desire to support her. I felt I was capable of showing her another way to look at things. She believes nothing can be done about her issues. She’s got heavy mood swings, lacks inner peace and self-love, but the part that rip my guts is that she firmly believes that’s the only way life can be. That she’s born chaotic, flawed, irascible and all she is ever allowed to feel is pain and anger. I wanted to show her there’s good things in life too, peace, calmness, love. And of course, everything went wrong.

    I tried, to the best of my very limited ability, to show her I meant to support her. I wanted to hear her out. I wanted to show her that i was not giving my back to her. Problem is that she feels I mean to change who she is. Of course, I never tried to do so, I just wanted her to consider the idea that she actually has control over herself. I know we all walk our very own paths. I just wanted to point her in a direction, to spark her curiosity about this ideas so she could gradually learn all the good there’s in life. And, despite my best intentions… I failed.

    She’s fixed on the idea of dealing with everything on her own. She doesn’t think that we as human beings can and should share some burdens. She doesn’t want to let anyone in and show her support, let alone love. So, as I tried to do it she shut down. She let me know her hurts but then didn’t let me give feedback. Show how much I wanted to stand by her side. I’m afraid we are drifting apart now, and I’m lost, not knowing what to do. She goes feeling aggravated, thinking I deem her flawed and want to “fix” her. I go feeling sad, frustrated and dissapointed in myself. I truly believed I could be a positive impact in her life but, somehow, I only managed to drive her away.

    Thanks for reading! I eagerly await your opinions.
    Lurker.

    August 1, 2014 at 6:25 am #62395
    Matt
    Participant

    Lurker,

    Consider stop approaching her from the mind, stop wanting her pain to go away. She’s protecting the reality of her feelings, defending her pain. Its very easy to unintentionally be invalidating to her emotions when you try to “show her a better way”. Instead, show her your warmth, your hugs.

    Said differently, stop trying to fix her. Hug her, and she’ll fix herself. Offer her love, acceptance. “You are beautiful, loved, when happy or sad or anything in between”. That feeling she has of wrath is normal, doesn’t need “new ideas” pushed at it, just an open, listening heart that holds her hand gently. Not “grow this way” or “grow that way”. She’s had enough pokes for one lifetime, let her be.

    Finally, consider that when you grab ideas and start talking about freedom, the way the works works truly, what she should be doing with her time, and so forth, you’re approaching her emotions from an analytic space. This is often like trying to feed someone already stuffed. Problem solving with someone unready, still in an emotional space. Consider zipping your lips, opening your heart, and just holding her. That’s when she’ll feel, rather than be told, that there is love and warmth in this world. If there is a large pull inside to fix her, such as if you notice you keep trying to jump in, save her, consider reading about codependency (books by Pia Mellody aim well in my opinion).

    With warmth,
    Matt

    August 1, 2014 at 9:25 am #62401
    Lurker
    Participant

    Thanks for your reply Matt.

    I understand it may seem that way but I’m decidedly not trying to fix her. I know I can’t interfere with her own path nor would I want to. I’m not trying to poke her, but if that is how it appears then I’m totally uncapable of supporting her with warmth and love, wich is all I wanted. I honestly don’t want to “save her”. I’m no shining hero. My intentions never were of the type: “ok, get behind me and I’ll deal with everything for you”. All I wanted to do was spark in her even the tiniest curiosity about self-love, self-acceptance and self-forgiveness. Help her realize everything she needs is within her already.

    I’m really lost as to what to do now. If my presence rubs her the wrong way, should I go away? I don’t want to be another source of negative feelings for her. But if I walk away, I’ll only reinforce her ideas that nobody can stand her and that’s frustrating.

    Lurker.

    August 1, 2014 at 9:32 am #62402
    @Jasmine-3
    Participant

    Thanks Matt.

    Glinda had to come back.

    Hi Lurker

    I think this is what Matt is suggesting – be there for this lady without any expectations. Accept her with her flaws and just give love. When she feels your unconditional love, she will automatically change. No questions, no suggestions. Just a decent dose of love and acceptance 🙂 but not at the expense of your own happiness. Walk away when it starts to pull you down instead of lifting you.

    Best wishes

    Jasmine

    August 1, 2014 at 11:44 am #62413
    Matt
    Participant

    Jasmine,

    Glinda who?

    Lurker,

    Its not your presence that rubs her wrongly, it seems that you are unintentionally attacking her well, her view of the world. Trying to help her see something new, pulling at the space where she feels safe.

    When I first met my wife, she was similar. Not self hateful, but scared. Would toss up deceptions to keep her self safe, protected, unseen. This bothered me a lot, honesty is important for intimacy, plus, her lies smelled false, didn’t fit right, stuck in my mind. I asked a teacher if I should throw in the towel, give up, look for someone more direct, forthright. He told me that deceptions are protections, and go away when we feel safe. Could I accept that if she gets scared she lies? I could, did, and the relationship has been more than I could have dreamed for. Many hugs, many “hmmm, that feels off, but whatever happened, dear love, I am here for you.” Her honesty, and heart, bloomed slowly as we danced. She saw she had nothing to hide, nothing to fear, and the clouds disbursed.

    From another direction, consider just being validating. You speak of helping her find self love, but then don’t accept her self as is. Instead of “oh, but wait, if only you could see how to”, consider “it makes sense why you would have those feelings.” It does make sense, she makes sense. You would be the same as her if you had gone through/had the same conditions. Give her that part of you, and if she is ever ready to approach her sticky bits, she’ll know she has a good friend to talk to about it.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    August 1, 2014 at 2:35 pm #62420
    Lurker
    Participant

    @Jasmine: “not at the expense of your own happiness. Walk away when it starts to pull you down instead of lifting you.” Those are key words in my opinion. I’m gonna keep them in mind as I consider the whole situation.


    @Matt    : It’s interesting to know you consider your wife was similar in some way.
    I don’t know if I seem like I don’t believe it but of course she makes sense, the way she is, it’s utterly logical. It’s hard for me to picture I don’t accept her as she is. I accept myself as I am and still think I can improve, still have choices from my past I’m not proud of. I mean, I accept myself but still realize there’s room to grow, there always is, for everyone. I don’t see how I look at her differently than that.

    I got in contact and apologized for my approach. I recognized my life lessons are just words for her, and don’t have to be useful for her. I explained my intentions had always been positive, I just wanted to support her. Not once in her reply did she acknowledge my explanations. She chose to state she’s upset and will continue to be. Clearly, she believes I’m just attacking her, noting how wrong everything about her is. I said “I’m not trying to change you, you don’t need to.” But she conveniently ignores where I’m coming from to keep on with the negative.

    It saddens me but it’s really hard for me to picture a bright future here. If we have such different outlooks, if we have no common ground, how can there be a true relationship then? Keeping with Jasmine’s words, if this drains me more than it fulfills me I guess we should go our separate ways.

    Lurker.

    August 1, 2014 at 2:50 pm #62421
    The Ruminant
    Participant

    Showing love and compassion towards her heart might be more effective than trying to influence her mind. The mind is influenced with words, whereas the heart is healed with presence and warmth.

    August 1, 2014 at 4:23 pm #62425
    macky
    Participant

    she is very very depressed. depression is directly linked to irrationality. the deeper the depression the less ability to hear rationally. until she chooses to climb out of her depression, the only thing to do is to keep open your heart and feel overwhelming compassion. this may help her when the time is right. you can focus on the good she has shared and the laughter. you must never give up your source or essence. even if you don’t see her for a long time, remind her of her power and she has a choice. this is not a failure. this is a teaching entering your life.
    macky

    August 1, 2014 at 5:13 pm #62427
    Big blue
    Participant

    Hi Lurker,

    I see you are in a pickle – as some would say. Here are just a couple thoughts I have to share.

    First, make a list of all your possible faults. One? Two? Ten? No worries there is no minimum and there is no maximum. Then, ask some family, or some close friends, if you could review it with them. Get their input. Ask whether they agree with your list. Ask them if you missed anything. Smile when you ask that one to show you want honest input. Take notes. Then take a couple days to let it simmer. Like a sauerbraten pot of thoughts and feelings. Then, take your list and your pen back and ask them to really really write down your possible faults. Add your own as they occur to you.

    What do you think comes next?

    Big blue

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Big blue.
    August 1, 2014 at 5:55 pm #62429
    Big blue
    Participant

    … Ok I’m back. My battery died. 🙂

    What comes next depends.

    Q: do you feel bad about your past?
    Q: do you feel humble?
    Q: do you feel shame?
    Q: do you fear what else they may be thinking about you?
    If you are saying yes to any of these questions, and thinking of your friend, you might be feeling some empathy for her. We are all flawed. Sometimes we have trouble handling this.
    If you said no to all of those questions, and you are not seeing something new, consider something more brave: repeat the process with her.

    What do you think and feel now?

    August 1, 2014 at 6:41 pm #62431
    Lurker
    Participant

    I want to thank each of you that has taken the time to reply.

    @The Ruminant: I understand what you mean, but I fear I wasn’t able to do it properly. Despite my intentions I couldn’t come off that way.


    @macky    : I do believe she is. I can see that nobody but her can do something about it. Some years ago I was depressed myself and only when I began understanding and healing from within could I get out of it. I understand her path has nothing to do with me. I just hope she can find brighter days in her life.

    @Big Blue: That’s an interesting exercise. My answers to your Q’s were indeed affirmative. We are all flawed and will always be. What do I think? We are only human, both with our virtues and our flaws. As for my friend, my wish is, like I said to macky, that she finds what she needs. If by then I’m no part of her life that’s alright. She deserves to find peace.

    Thanks everyone for your words.
    Lurker.

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