- This topic has 29 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 2 weeks ago by
anita.
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May 4, 2026 at 11:21 am #457600
anitaParticipantYou are 🙏, Starlight 🌟
About “I did wrong things”- me too. There’s a mantra I repeat every day, it goes like this, word by word: “I redirect chronic shame, guilt and self- doubt to confidence- not because I am perfect, but because I am learning”.
Take your time, Starlight, no rush.
🌿 Anita
May 4, 2026 at 12:00 pm #457604
starlight1ParticipantHi Peter and Anita,
Im confused. Are you saying different things?
Peter, i feel youre saying i need to find a way to forgive, and not say that i dont.
Anita, i feel you are saying its okay to take my time and to not forgive, but do you mean actions etc rather than not forgive a person?
May 4, 2026 at 12:02 pm #457605starlight1ParticipantI didnt mean to be abrupt, sorry, its just what occurred to me and i realised id best ask each of you if thats okay.
May 4, 2026 at 12:49 pm #457606
PeterParticipantHi Starlight
’m so sorry for being confusing. I want to be very clear: I am not saying you need to find a way to forgive. Your boundaries and your anger are completely valid, especially given what you’ve been through.
My “worry” was less about the specific events and more about how the words we use to frame such events can unintentionally trap us. In my own experience, I’ve used the words “I will not forgive” as a way to say (without really noticing) that “I will use anger to protect myself.” It turned out to be incredibly exhausting and, honestly, it didn’t actually protect me, it just kept me tethered to the pain. To be clear I’m not saying your are doing that, only that that was the ‘source’ of a concern, triggered by the topic heading.
Let us bring it back to the Art. As an artist, I was wondering if exploring the words like “forgiveness” or ‘block’… could be a way to unblock your creativity? Not to change how you feel about the past, but to see what a ‘word’ might looks like. Does it have a shape or a color? Is it a cage, a stone, or a breath? What might it look like, to look at the world though the shape being drawn? Investigating the “spell” of a word visually might be a way to move it out of the mind and onto the heart?
May 4, 2026 at 1:10 pm #457608starlight1ParticipantHi Peter,
Thanks so much for writing back. I think i understand, but i will think about it a bit more. With reference to doing art, i did a picture of a hand pointing at myself, with forgive written on it. I will explore more. To be honest i think i need forgiveness from God, but i think of the Lords prayer (from the past) and theres a loop where it says forgive me my trespasses as i forgive others. Im not sure what happens first… forgiveness of me, or of me forgiving others. Can i forgive myself? Ought i to forgive others if ive done wrong too? How do i know that im forgiven?
Thanks for your help.
May 4, 2026 at 1:45 pm #457611PeterParticipantStarlight – I too have struggled with those words – to forgive as I forgive… here I feel we are bigger then big in a universe we are smaller then small. If I were a painter that is what I would try to paint… and now I picture a hand pointing at itself…
Trust the questions, or better yet continue to paint them… your instincts, are pretty grounded, let them guide you…. Star-light
May 4, 2026 at 6:10 pm #457626anitaParticipantHi Starlight 🌟
I don’t think that Peter and I are saying different things. Well, we are saying different things but not contradictory things.
He mentioned anger keeping the victim tethered to the pain.
That was true to me.
I still feel anger at my mother but unlike in the past, I am aware of also feeling love and concern for her and all the other feelings I have for her.
I feel the other feelings for her because I no longer feel threatened by her (by her voice in my brain)
For as long as I felt threatened, I needed the anger, and the idea of letting go of the anger felt dangerous, that the people who suggested that I forgive her were trying to take away my only protection: anger.
You asked me about anger at the person vs anger at their actions. When the perpetrator of abuse keeps abusing then in my mind, the person and their actions are one.
Although I was my mother’s victim, I am sad to say that I abused my younger sister when I was around 9 or so.
I regret that very much. In adulthood, I apologized and sent her all the money I earned over a few years, and suggested she can use it for therapy.
That’s it- I apologized and made amends the only way I knew how ($). And then, I tried to help other people as part of making amends.
I suppose I forgave myself for abusing my sister as well as mistreating others in my adult life because I am learning how to be a person I myself approve of. And that dedication to learning earns me self- forgiveness.
🌟 Anita
May 5, 2026 at 7:00 pm #457668anitaParticipantHi again, Starlight ✨️
You told Peter that you did a picture (art) of a hand 👈 pointing to yourself with the word ‘forgiveness’ written on it.
I do hope that you forgive yourself. I know how difficult it is to feel guilty 😔
Talking about art, I did a painting myself when I was in my early 20s. It meant a lot to me and it also involved a hand: it was a hand coming out of my brain/ head, fingers spread, as in trying to escape the conflict and misery within my brain- trying to escape and be free from relentless guilt.
If you want to talk with me about guilt, I am here.
I remember at about the same time, I said to myself, feeling strongly about it: “If I get to experience one day of not feeling guilty, my life will be worth living”.
Fast forward.. my life is worth living ✨️
Not all happily-ever- after fairytale style.. Just Not- Guilty. What a relief!
🌿 Anita
May 7, 2026 at 7:29 pm #457743anitaParticipantThinking about you, Starlight1 🌟
May 9, 2026 at 5:46 am #457770starlight1ParticipantHi, thanks so much for the helpful thoughts youve both shared.
I did some sponaneous art, just to see what happened, and it did help.
One thing that i realised was that true forgiveness is a free gift, and not to be coerced etc.
Im still wanting to explore further on paper how these issues have become confused or conflated.
Also, sometimes forgiveness becomes confused with reconciliation with the other person(s).
May 9, 2026 at 9:23 am #457774anitaParticipantHi Starlight1 🌟
I am glad you did some spontaneous art and that it helped you!
I reread all your posts in this thread, so this reply is about everything you shared here.
In your most recent post, you wrote: “these issues have become confused or conflated… sometimes forgiveness becomes confused with reconciliation with the other person(s).”-
Please let me know if my thinking in what follows is true to you, or not exactly (I’ll use upper case for the different issues that became conflated)
* FORGIVING OTHERS has become tangled with FORGIVING YOURSELF — as in, you have to forgive others if you ever did anything wrong yourself.
* RECONCILIATION got tangled with FORGIVING OTHERS- as in, forgiving others means you must reconnect and interact with them.
Your CREATIVE BLOCK got tangled with EMOTIONAL HARM (by your mother and the woman in church). Both experiences made you feel that you and your creativity existed only to serve other people, not yourself. Because of that, when you think about art, you may also be thinking about guilt, pressure, and being used.
And underneath all of this sit RELIGIOUS MESSAGES that taught you that you must forgive others in order for God to forgive you. Those teachings got mixed with your personal experiences of being used, pressured, and guilt‑tripped (emotional harm)
This may create a loop where you want to protect yourself by not forgiving, but you also fear you are doing something spiritually wrong.
About emotional harm: when a parent expects a child to support their needs, dreams, or emotional stability, the child learns that their own desires are secondary.
Instead of being supported in exploring art, you were told to give up your path so that your mother could pursue hers. That kind of role‑reversal teaches a child to silence their own feelings, to feel guilty for wanting things, and to associate creativity with obligation rather than freedom.
Over time, this can create a deep internal block — because every time the child reaches toward their own creativity, the old message returns: “Your needs don’t matter. Someone else comes first.”
Your mother’s voice (as well as the church’s) sounds like guilt, pressure, duty, and the idea that you must sacrifice your own needs.
Your own voice is quieter — it shows up in your spontaneous art, your curiosity, your desire to understand yourself, and the longing for creative freedom. One helpful way to connect with your quieter voice is through small acts of creativity that have no purpose except expression, just like the spontaneous art you shared about in your recent post. Over time, you can learn to treat the others’ voices as an old echo, and hear your own, authentic voice clearly.
Anita
May 9, 2026 at 5:49 pm #457775anitaParticipantHi again, Starlight1 🌟:
I would like to develop my thoughts about forgiveness and conflated issues in the context of my life experience.
I am not at all telling you how it is for you, or how it should be.
This is my personal reflection that maybe will help you somewhat (it will probably help me because developing my thoughts this way often helps me):
First, forgiveness is a personal choice. It’s up to me 2-forgive or not-2-forgive.
It’s part of my agency, my right, my perogative- nothing that anyone else has the right to pressure or force me to do.
It’s not up to the perpetrator to pressure me to forgive her (or him), and it’s not up to any religious doctrine to pressure me either. It’s no one’s business but my own.
* To forgive, for me, means to let go of the anger at the person who harmed me- Not to approve of or excuse the harm perpetrated against me, but to let go of the anger.
I will let go of the anger only if and when I no longer feel threatened by the perpetrator.
As long as I feel threatened, I need the anger to protect me.
As far as me harming others- I regret every time I did, and my strong resolve is to Do-No-Harm.
Harming others in the past does not excuse someone else harming me (except if the person I just harmed is defending herself or reacting angrily to my abuse).
Secondly, forgiving someone does not mean interacting with them. I can forgive (let go of anger) and never interact with the person again.
* Even though my mother is a very old woman, I can’t and won’t interact with her (haven’t for 12-13 years) because I’m still afraid of her. Not that she can hit me, I suppose, not physically- but because she can still shame and guilt-trip me. The pain of those things is still vivid in me.
Strange perhaps, I still love her and I’m still afraid of her, such is the Nature of Trauma Bonding.
So, I am choosing to forgive my mother and to never see her or hear her in real- life. Not so to punish her but so to protect the little girl within myself (aka inner child) because.. she’s afraid, understandably, rightfully.
And I will never blame the girl within me for being afraid. She has her valid reasons.
My protection from my mother is continued zero interaction. Secure in this protection ( no longer feeling guilty for protecting myself this way), I can let go of the anger. Amen.
That’s it, Starlight1 🌟
Again, these are my personal conflating-undoing
thoughts 🙂. I hope to read yours.🌿 ✨️ Anita
May 10, 2026 at 4:59 pm #457771starlight1Participant<cite> @a1b2c3d4 said:</cite>
Hi again, Starlight ✨️You told Peter that you did a picture (art) of a hand 👈 pointing to yourself with the word ‘forgiveness’ written on it.
I do hope that you forgive yourself. I know how difficult it is to feel guilty 😔
Talking about art, I did a painting myself when I was in my early 20s. It meant a lot to me and it also involved a hand: it was a hand coming out of my brain/ head, fingers spread, as in trying to escape the conflict and misery within my brain- trying to escape and be free from relentless guilt.
If you want to talk with me about guilt, I am here.
I remember at about the same time, I said to myself, feeling strongly about it: “If I get to experience one day of not feeling guilty, my life will be worth living”.
Fast forward.. my life is worth living ✨️
Not all happily-ever- after fairytale style.. Just Not- Guilty. What a relief!
🌿 Anita
Hi Anita, With regard to guilt i think narratives that are shared from our parents can sometimes be detrimental to our wellbeing. For example, sharing accounts of difficulties with children without context and reassurance.
I think sometimes a message of inferred guilt can be transmitted and it may not be consciously. Im just thinking out loud, i guess there can be other circumstances too, which might lead to an assumption of guilt without sufficient or perhaps any justification.
May 10, 2026 at 5:01 pm #457783starlight1Participant<cite> @a1b2c3d4 said:</cite>
Hi Starlight1 🌟I am glad you did some spontaneous art and that it helped you!
I reread all your posts in this thread, so this reply is about everything you shared here.
In your most recent post, you wrote: “these issues have become confused or conflated… sometimes forgiveness becomes confused with reconciliation with the other person(s).”-
Please let me know if my thinking in what follows is true to you, or not exactly (I’ll use upper case for the different issues that became conflated)
* FORGIVING OTHERS has become tangled with FORGIVING YOURSELF — as in, you have to forgive others if you ever did anything wrong yourself.
* RECONCILIATION got tangled with FORGIVING OTHERS- as in, forgiving others means you must reconnect and interact with them.
Your CREATIVE BLOCK got tangled with EMOTIONAL HARM (by your mother and the woman in church). Both experiences made you feel that you and your creativity existed only to serve other people, not yourself. Because of that, when you think about art, you may also be thinking about guilt, pressure, and being used.
And underneath all of this sit RELIGIOUS MESSAGES that taught you that you must forgive others in order for God to forgive you. Those teachings got mixed with your personal experiences of being used, pressured, and guilt‑tripped (emotional harm)
This may create a loop where you want to protect yourself by not forgiving, but you also fear you are doing something spiritually wrong.
About emotional harm: when a parent expects a child to support their needs, dreams, or emotional stability, the child learns that their own desires are secondary.
Instead of being supported in exploring art, you were told to give up your path so that your mother could pursue hers. That kind of role‑reversal teaches a child to silence their own feelings, to feel guilty for wanting things, and to associate creativity with obligation rather than freedom.
Over time, this can create a deep internal block — because every time the child reaches toward their own creativity, the old message returns: “Your needs don’t matter. Someone else comes first.”
Your mother’s voice (as well as the church’s) sounds like guilt, pressure, duty, and the idea that you must sacrifice your own needs.
Your own voice is quieter — it shows up in your spontaneous art, your curiosity, your desire to understand yourself, and the longing for creative freedom. One helpful way to connect with your quieter voice is through small acts of creativity that have no purpose except expression, just like the spontaneous art you shared about in your recent post. Over time, you can learn to treat the others’ voices as an old echo, and hear your own, authentic voice clearly.
Anita
Hi Anita,
Thank you for writing. I do broadly agree with what youve shared. Im in a predicament though.
I think that sharing my response further might not be best for me.
Im not sure i can respond or when i’ll be able to respond.
I focused a lot on my mother. However, there were other people. There were some positives coming from my mother, its more complicated. Even as im writing i feel a narrative that might seek to override my own self expression is the inference that i hadnt been fair to other people. That claim might be used sometimes by people who dont want honest reflection.
Sometimes, when looking at complicated past issues, people try to claim a role of hero or heroine, or a role they want, as they recall parts of the narrative. But perhaps each person involved can contribute in a positive way?
I note that in religion there is the message that you must honour your parents. However, some parents deny their child(ren) their human rights. I think that more understanding and explanation needs to be given with that message. Also, children need guidance from healthy role models, and that means those role models are required to educate children in life skills and social skills, but how can they do that if they lack them themselves?
In the country i live in there have been barriers to formal education, which mean that a cycle of abuse and neglect gets perpetuated by people, and some people who have been educated then judge those who arent achieving or havent achieved in the same way, but as individuals i think we often have different learning styles.
May 10, 2026 at 6:09 pm #457792anitaParticipantHi Starlight 🌟
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. I hear that these topics feel complicated for you, and that going deeper right now might be too much. That’s completely okay. You don’t owe me a long reply, and you don’t have to continue before you feel ready.
I also hear that your past wasn’t only one thing — not only harm, not only good — and that it’s hard to talk about it without feeling like your own voice might get overshadowed. I’ll pay attention to not define your story for you. Your perspective matters, and you get to set the pace and the boundaries.
If you ever want to talk more, I’m here. And if you need space, that’s perfectly fine too. Please take care of yourself in the way that feels right for you.
Warmly, Anita 🌿
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