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I dont forgive

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  • This topic has 29 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by anita.
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  • #457533
    starlight1
    Participant

    When i was younger, i could have gone to art school to do a foundation course, and then perhaps fine art. But about the time i was thinking of this, my mother decided she was going to go to the art school. She told me i should help support her by doing housework. I ended up leaving and going to work.

    Then as an adult, years later, having never recovered from abuse, i related this to a woman from a church who then criticised me and told me i should support her to do art. Well i then did encourage her and now i feel burnt out creatively again. I dont forgive either of them for the guilt they placed on me when i was struggling.

    I feel mostly creatively blocked. I suppose that would please my mother.

    #457544
    anita
    Participant

    Hi Starlight1 ⭐️

    Sounds like “Selfish” (her interest AT your expense) was your mother’s middle name and the church goer religious affiliation 😞

    I am sorry, Starlight, that this happened to you.

    In this context, forgiving would mean saying that it is okay to take advantage of one’s own daughter/ fellow church goer, is it?

    That you ended your original post with the thought that your mother would be pleased with having mostly blocked your creativity says a lot about how much it hurts that she did.

    .. When a mother is so far from what a mother should be.

    I remember observing 🦌 mothers and their fawns years ago (I live in a wooded area outside the city limits) and I realized that although mother-deer don’t go out of their way to protect their young (they don’t, I was disappointed!), they never turn around and bite or attack their offsprings, or actively harm them.

    Unlike too many human mothers.

    🦌 😞 Anita

    #457548
    anita
    Participant

    Hi Starlight:

    I wanted to clarify something from my earlier reply. I used the word “selfish” about your mother, and I realized afterward that this wasn’t the best way to say what I meant. It’s not my place to label your mother as a whole person. What I should have said is that some of the things she did were self‑serving and placed her needs above your wellbeing. That part is true, but it’s different from naming her entirely.

    I also want to acknowledge something else. When I wrote about the deer, I was drawing from my own history with my mother, and I can see now that I let my experience blend into yours (projection). That wasn’t fair to you. Your story is your own, and it deserves to be heard without my trauma coloring it.

    What you shared about being made to support her art school plans, and seeing her stay with someone who harmed you, are painful experiences in their own right. They don’t need any added intensity from my side. I want to go back to listen to your reality as you see it, in your timing, without pushing you toward any conclusion.

    I wrote to you on the other thread that I’m here to walk alongside you, but in the above reply, I unintentionally (or without awareness) walked ahead of you. I apologize.

    🤍 Anita

    #457566
    starlight1
    Participant

    Hi Anita, Im so glad you came back to walk alongside me for a while and explain your first reply – apology accepted – Im grateful to you.

    Im definitely going to rest now but just wanted to say that. Id like to explain more but need a bit of time to try and process what happened.

    #457568
    anita
    Participant

    Oh, thank you so much, Starlight1, for accepting my apology and for.. being you! Please do take all the time you need.

    #457571
    starlight1
    Participant

    I just wanted to say i think some things other things have got conflated or merged, and im trying to tease them apart.

    If people really knew the consequences of certain behaviours, would they do them?

    #457576
    anita
    Participant

    Good morning, Starlight!

    I hear what you’re saying about things getting merged together. That happens so easily when different experiences carry similar feelings. It makes sense that you’re trying to tease them apart so each thing can be understood on its own, instead of becoming one big knot.

    There’s no rush with that. It’s something that happens slowly and naturally as you look at each piece in your own time.

    About your question — whether people would still do certain things if they really understood the consequences — that’s a painful thing to wonder about.

    Some people truly don’t see the impact of their actions. Others see it but choose their own needs anyway. And sometimes people only understand the consequences much later, when the harm is already done.

    Your question shows how deeply you’ve been thinking about what happened to you, and how much you’re trying to make sense of it.

    If you want to talk more about any part of this, I’m here. And if you’re still sorting through things quietly, that’s completely okay too.

    🤍✨Anita

    #457581
    starlight1
    Participant

    Thank you Anita. I probably need to write things out, so i may not respond for a while.

    Take good care of yourself….hope to be back here.

    #457585
    anita
    Participant

    You are welcome, Starlight ✨ and thank you for being here, for sharing your valuable thoughts and reflections and for communicating with me. It’s meaningful to me. I too hope that you’ll be back here 🙏 🤍

    #457587
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Starlight

    I don’t normally comment on personal matters, and glad you have someone like Anita walk with you… but when I read a heading like ‘I don’t forgive,’ I worry.

    I worry because I’ve often experienced and observed that our relationship to certain words, the way we define them in our own minds, can unintentionally undo us.

    It might sound strange, but I’ve seen how holding onto a rigid definition of ‘forgiveness’ can act like a weight that hardens the heart. It’s as if by saying ‘I don’t forgive,’ we think we are protecting ourselves, but we might actually be accidentally giving those people a permanent seat at the table of our lives.

    I’m concerned that this definitive stance, while totally justified by your pain, might be part of the very thing sustaining the creative struggle you’re feeling? To me, forgiveness isn’t about the other person being ‘right’ or even ‘okay’; it’s about deciding that you are no longer willing to carry the heavy end of their behavior. I’d hate for a word to keep you blocked from the art you were meant to make

    #457588
    starlight1
    Participant

    Hi Peter,

    Thank you for writing – im glad you have and im listening.

    Youve said about not carrying the heavy end of their behaviour, but i thought by not forgiving their behaviour i was setting a boundary, and saying that it was wrong. Please are you able to explain a way forward thats more appropriate?

    #457589
    starlight1
    Participant

    Ps also as this forum is for art, ought i to be looking for a way to combine creativity with this issue??

    #457592
    anita
    Participant

    I wanted to say, Starlight 🌟 that not forgiving as a boundary setting/ calling out the behavior that harmed you was wrong- makes a lot of sense.

    Forgiveness in the sense of excusing harmful behavior is never right.

    Another thing: if forgiveness means further drowning in empathy for the perpetrator (what I experienced, not saying you did), it is harmful to forgive in this sense.

    The idea of forgiveness as releasing anger and moving on is an excellent idea-

    After gaining mental and emotional clarity and setting boundaries (no longer being a subject to mistreatment).

    Clarity first.

    🌿 Anita

    #457598
    Peter
    Participant

    Hi Starlight1 – great name

    And great question. We often use ‘unforgiveness’ as a placeholder for a boundary, but it may not be the thing we think it is.

    A boundary is a fence you build to keep yourself safe; unforgiveness is often a heavy stone you carry to remind yourself why the fence is there. You don’t need the stone to keep the fence strong. And I think its also important to remember that forgiveness doesn’t make what happened okay, and it certainly doesn’t remove accountability. It can, however, change your relationship to the event and to your own heart.

    Words, when we’re not careful, and I speak from experience, can become like ‘spells’ we cast over ourselves. When we say “I don’t forgive,” the mechanical mind takes that as a literal command to stay in a permanent state of defense and anger. Many wisdom traditions warn us about this: when the mind gets stuck in these rigid, automatic definitions, it eventually ‘hardens the heart’ to protect it. We then become ‘stuck.’

    Such a definitive stance on a concept like forgiveness, while completely justified by your pain, might be the very spell keeping your creativity blocked. Yet what if forgiveness was defined as ‘releasing the weight so I can breathe,’ rather than ‘letting them off the hook’? I feel that breaks the cycle; it stops you from being tethered to the stone while you tend your fence.

    As for your question about art… yes! I think it can!

    For me, this ‘wrestling’ with words like forgiveness is exactly where the creative work begins. You could explore this visually: What does a ‘mechanical’ thought look like compared to a ‘living’ one? How would you paint the weight of a word versus the space of a breath?

    Instead of waiting for the block to go away so you can make art, use the art to investigate the block. Turn the struggle with ‘forgiveness’ into a study of shapes, weights, and colors… and perhaps tears. That may be how you avoid being the victim of a word and start being the creator of your own narrative?

    #457599
    starlight1
    Participant

    Thank you both for your input.

    Ive got some thinking to do! I do feel tired though, and whats come to mind are events where i did wrong things, some of which were harmful.

    The thing is i found myself in an unhelpful loop. I dont want to be hypocritical.

    I will get out some paper and see what happens.

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