April 23, 2019 at 6:30 pm #290311
I want to be more focused than I am now when I read your recent post, so I will read it and reply when I am back in about 12 hours. I did read just a bit, you wrote that she didn’t respond to you after you (emailed?) her that you would like to see her again. If you hear from her this evening (I don’t know if it is evening or night where you are), do post that, will you?
Back in about 12 hours. I hope you have a good night sleep!
anitaApril 24, 2019 at 8:32 am #290355
I re-read all your posts on the two threads again this morning, incorporating the information from your recent post into the bigger picture in my mind. I will separate the following with #s and include quotes from your shares in parentheses:
1. Anxiety in childhood and disassociation: you witnessed your father physically abusing your mother (he “took a lot of anger out on my mother physically… I had witnessed that a few times. Physically and verbally. Occasionally we’d hear the physical violence going on in their bedroom”). It was a scary experience that repeated itself during your early childhood, before you were 8, the time your parents divorced.
The disassociation is about tuning down the volume, as you heard the violence in your childhood home, you turned down the volume, so to speak.
Fast forward, in your five year relationship, you didn’t “hear” the noise, that is, the troubles in the relationship for the longest time, until your ex girlfriend left you that note, being loud enough for you to hear. In that relationship you didn’t “hear” the bickering loud enough, you didn’t hear her dissatisfaction (“when she left the note saying she was staying at her parents for 6 weeks, it blindsided me… we were absolutely best friends, we’d bicker but NEVER fought…. There were weeks we’d go without a romantic kiss, and sex slowed down dramatically to the point of stopping. She wanted it, but I had no interest”).
2. Anger- your early life promise to not be like your father, to never get as angry as him, led you to turn down the volume of your own anger to a point that you are hardly aware of it, and so, you are missing the emotion that lets us, humans, know when there is something wrong that needs to be addressed, this is how you missed your ex girlfriend’s dissatisfaction, not being aware of it until she left you, and it is the reason why you are too agreeable and not assertive (“at a young age-maybe about 10-after seeing my dad physically assaulting his new girlfriend, after me and my sister ran and hid, I promised my sister then that I’d never turn out like my dad, and never get as angry as him. I remember it very vividly.. to be anything like my father was dangerous… I’m very agreeable. And I’m not assertive at all”).
3. Aloneness- you were very much alone as a child, not starting grade 7 when you were taken out of public school, but before. When you heard the violence between your parents, there was no parent there Together with you, comforting you. When your father assaulted his new girlfriend, there was no parent Together with you, comforting you.
At home, living with your mother, she worked many hours, not available to be Together with you. And then, being taken out of public school, you were alone in other ways, no peers Together with you.
And so, on one hand you prefer being alone, you are used to it, it is easier, but on the other hand, you never outgrew the need to be Together, this need in you is intense (“I tend to be a homebody and sit at home a lot even during that weekends.. I’m extremely introverted, very shy, and don’t get out very much.. I DO have a tendency to fall hard and quick.. why after a single date am I having such intense and emotional feelings… What’s been putting me on the brink of crying these days is the thought that she’s gone. ‘She’, being someone that didn’t mean much to me to begin with… I still find that I grow unreasonably attached to women that show interest in me, at unreasonable paces”)
A thought about the kind of woman who will be right for you: it is very important that the woman in your life, who will be in your life, in a romantic relationship, will be honest and assertive, one who will tell you very clearly (loud enough, so to speak) what she feels and what she wants, and yet she needs to be not aggressive.
You are welcome to give me your feedback on what I suggested here, in this post.
anitaApril 24, 2019 at 6:03 pm #290409
Thanks again for the well considered response, Anita. It really is helping alot. Your post is eye-opening when put into a bigger picture like this. All of these things seem to have contributed to how I live my adult life, and my unreasonable rate of attachment and fear of rejection/abandonment. At this point though, even knowing these things, I’m not sure what I can do about it. I’m still terribly torn up over this girl. I find myself looking at pictures she’s sent through text messaging, and our conversations and how they conveyed so much interest that she clearly lost once we met. It shouldn’t hurt like it does, but it really does hurt. I haven’t found myself attracted to other women since it was clear that she rejected me, and after just that one night with her, I unreasonably can’t let her go. It’s causing me much pain and suffering, but it’s all I can think about throughout the day. Any time I get a notification on my phone, I still “hope” it’s her finally reaching back out. And in the back of my mind, I know better, but it doesn’t seem to help.
This has begun to effect my attitude at work, and my home-life. I dread coming home to an empty house with noone to talk to (outside of you and people on forums). I’ve stopped cooking for myself, resorting to fast food, my smoking habit has increased, and I find myself on my phone browsing the web on things related to my situation for the 5 or so hours until I go to bed. I hate being like this, and even during the date, I hadn’t expected at all that this girl would have such an effect on me.April 25, 2019 at 7:10 am #291225
You’ve been alone for a long time before this one date we are discussing, 2.5 years if I remember correctly? A long time of not having a together-experience with a woman. Then you have one date but it is a long, long date. You meet in a restaurant, then spend some time outside of the restaurant and then you go to your place, your home. During this long date she talks excitedly about plans she has with you, a bucket list of things to do, and that makes you feel good. In your place you play the guitar and she sings and then you have physical/ sexual closeness with her. It is a whole relationship condensed into one night. This is very different from the second date you had of spending a short time in one location, a restaurant and then going home alone.
This was an intense emotional experience for you, a together kind of experience, together with a woman. Now you are grieving the separation. It was “just that one night with her” but it was a long and meaningful night to you.
“I hadn’t expected at all that this girl would have such an effect on me”- the affect and effect she has on you has to do with her excitement during dinner and afterwards, her plans of being with you long term (that bucket list), so you imagined in your mind a long term relationship with her, a “this is it” possibility. You got all excited and hopeful yourself.
It really doesn’t matter that it was only one night, what matters as it relates to the pain of separation and rejection that you are experiencing is that you imagined it would be long term, you perceived it a likely possibility.
Can you tell me how it felt for you as a child, if you remember, to be together with your family, with your mother and/ or father, at times, when all were calm and seemed happy, that good the-sun-is-shining-and-the-flowers-are-blooming, all-is-well and no-worries kind of feeling?
anitaApril 25, 2019 at 4:31 pm #291301
I think that may be it exactly Anita. I think my soul has been yearning for the connection her and I had that night, and although I knew I wanted it, I didn’t realize how much until she produced it, then took it away so abruptly. And with a night filled with ideas for the future, being dropped into the same exact place filled with loneliness the next day crushed me. Getting a taste of what we shared that night, coming back to this place is dreadful.
I felt I’d be over in a week. Then two weeks. And that’s where I’m at now. And of course, I cried pretty hard before walking into my house after work today over this. The weekend starts for me on Thursday evenings, and before even coming inside, I can see the weekend is going to be filled with me agonizing over this for the full 3 days. Like a dark cloud over anything I decide to try doing to get my mind off of it.
I got what would have been considered a “jackpot”. A good date followed by hooking up. But here I sit, fully consumed by thoughts of this girl I went on a SINGLE date with, and absolutely hating every minute of my life. (I’m sorry if I’m sounding too depressing. I know people in my current state can be sickening to talk to and hear from)
I’m trying very hard to adopt the mindset of “just move on. It was 1 date!”. But being a relatively shy guy that has difficulties with confidence, I guess I have a really hard time shifting into that “there’s plenty of fish in the sea” frame of mind when meeting women (especially in my 30s), when I have such a hard time getting out of the house, and introducing myself to ANYone, but especially attractive women. It’s like all I’m filled with are feelings of regret for missing the only opportunity I’d be granted in a long, long time.
And regarding the question relating to me childhood: there’s so much before the age of about 16 that I just remember. I remember some big events, and small bits and pieces of things, but generally I can’t recall most of my childhood. Off of the top of my head, the only 2 real things I can remember in regards to good memories as the whole family would be one time when my parents were on the couch together and me and my sister laying on the floor all watching a movie. The second would be on a Sunday morning in their bed, my dad playing with my sister and me playing with my mom.April 25, 2019 at 6:23 pm #291309
I will read and reply to your recent post when I am back to the computer in about 12 hours.
anitaApril 26, 2019 at 7:33 am #291365
“there’s so much before the age of about 16 that I just (don’t) remember… I can’t recall most of my childhood”- it was unpleasant then, your childhood, and so you have only two good memories: your parents sitting on the couch, you and your sister on the floor, all watching a movie and the four of you in bed on Sunday morning, playing.
“I think my soul has been yearning for the connection her and I had that night”- yearning for the connection you had so little of in your first 16 years.
You felt this connection, what I referred to earlier as a Together feeling, with this woman and then you were “dropped into the same exact place filled with loneliness”- same loneliness of your childhood, I figure.
I want to understand you better, therefore I ask: the five year relationship with your ex girlfriend, how was the connection with her, that feeling of Together?
And, I am wondering, if connection is so thrilling and loneliness so painful- how is it that you didn’t propose to her in so many years, do you know?
April 26, 2019 at 9:18 am #291387
- This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by anita.
Thank you Anita. I know I had a pretty rough childhood in the early years, and I hate that it’s making me such a vulnerable and self conscious adult. I need a route out of this seemingly dark and endless tunnel. I’m trying to take my dog on more walks, exercising, and reduce harmful addictions. But so far it’s done nothing for my emotional state, and I still cry over this girl I barely know.
With the previous relationship, speaking with no emotion, as I’ve healed since, I think I took her for granted and did PLAN on eventually marrying her, I believe it was always in the back of my head that I may be able to do better. She was the aggressor and pursued me, so it made me wonder what kind of girl I’d be able to get if I pursued what I wanted instead. These weren’t fully realized thoughts that I had while in a relationship with her, and looking back, I would have felt differently if they would have been brought out to the surface, but I think they were pretty deep and it may have kept me from fully committing.April 26, 2019 at 9:37 am #291391
Because we tend to re-live our childhood emotional experience I need to know more, at this point, about your relationship with your mother:
1. What thoughts did you have about her when you were young, did you think little of her, at times, being embarrassed perhaps, that she is your mother?
2. Why did you move away from her as soon as you turned 18?
3. What is your relationship with your mother now?
anitaApril 27, 2019 at 4:53 am #291479
No, I can’t say I’ve ever really been embarressed of my mother. I think as I’ve aged I’ve kind of grown proud of her to be able to take on the task of working long hours at a hard job while raising children as a single mother.
Moving away at a young age wasn’t particularly by choice. I live in Southern Louisiana, and there was a hurricane in 2005 that destroyed our house, and I ended up living in a temporary fema trailer for afew years afterwards while my mom was living with her new husband.
My relationship now with her is good. We try to visit at least once a week when she comes over for coffee, and we see and talk to each other pretty regularly.April 27, 2019 at 9:39 am #291511
Here is the decision and promise that made a huge impact on your life ever since you made that promise: “I promised my sister then that I’d never turn out like my dad, and never get as angry as him… And I think my dedication to that promise has robbed me a lot of my manhood- pulling me in a direction to vow that masculinity and to be anything like my father was dangerous”.
You rejected being aggressive and never learned the skill of being assertive. Instead, you adopted the passive attitude and behavior in the context of romantic relationships. Meaning, you stay home a lot and when in contact with women online, on the dating application, you didn’t initiate meeting women. The woman this thread is about, the one time date, she pursued you, she initiated all, she was the masculine one of the two of you.
This is what you wrote about your girlfriend of five years: “She was the aggressor and pursued me, so it made me wonder what kind of girl I’d be able to get if I pursued what I wanted instead”.
This is what you wrote about this one date woman: “While I, typically very guarded and slow to open to anyone on an emotional level, was made vulnerable by her aggressive methods“-
– first, I think that you are confusing aggression with assertiveness, and you view assertiveness, such as a woman’s suggestion to take the online relationship to the next level, that of a date, as aggression.
– second, you have no way of meeting a woman unless she pursues you, but once she pursues you (which you perceive as aggression on her part), you are turned off by that aggression.
What happens is that you make a deep connection with an assertive woman who pursues you because she makes a meeting between the two of you possible, but you lose interest because of the very assertiveness on her part that made a meeting between the two of you possible.
You want to pursue a woman, to make the choice yourself regarding who will be in your life, but pursuing a woman is one of the masculine traits that you rejected when you made that promise.
Regarding the one date woman this thread is about, you wrote that during the date you thought to yourself that you don’t like her that much, that she is not a fit (I don’t have the quote with me at the moment)- I believe it is because she pursued you that you lost interest during the date.
It is after that date that you were so interested in her, after she no longer pursued you.
Same with the girlfriend of five years, it was after the relationship was over, after she no longer pursued you, that you became interested in her.
Time to differentiate between aggression and assertiveness, learn the skill of assertiveness and become that in your life, become assertive, you need to. And then, once you are assertive, you will distinguish between assertive women and aggressive women and choose accordingly.
<div></div>April 27, 2019 at 5:23 pm #291547
Wow. Thank you very much for the insight Anita. That’s very insightful and would explain alot that has gone totally unnoticed on my part.
As a as becoming assertive, how is this something I can practice? Do you know of any methods or exercises? This is something I feel has caused me much torment and something I feel is absolutely necessary to get better at in order to live a happy and fulfilled life.April 27, 2019 at 5:58 pm #291549
You are welcome. I agree, assertiveness is absolutely necessary for everyone in the quest of living a better life, and it is necessary for you too. Assertiveness is a learned set of skills (unlike aggression and passivity), and I am sure you can find books + workbooks on it in libraries and bookstores. I don’t know of online sources.
Regarding instances in your daily life where assertiveness can be practiced- I will be glad to help you with that. You can post anytime a description of a specific situation you encounter, and we can discuss how you can respond assertively to that situation.
April 28, 2019 at 2:12 pm #291653
- This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by anita.
I’ve began looking into assertiveness training videos and lectures. Something I practiced today was walking my dog, and holding friendly eye contact with everyone that passes until they look away first, and smiling at the women. It wasn’t as scary as I thought it’d be, and it motivated me to continue doing it.
The second girl that i took on a date finally reached back out and I set up a second date for tonight. 3 hours before, she canceled saying her children were dropped off and she didn’t have a baby sitter. She agreed to a later date in this week though.
Today again was hard in terms of the first girl. I woke up and she entered my mind again after about 5 seconds of being awake, and it immediately upset me tremendously, as I knew that that’s where she’d stay all day. And that’s exactly what happened-I haven’t been able to get her off my mind.
I jogged for the first time today for about an hour and a half. It made me feel better, but I realized that my wallet had escaped my pocket, and I’d lost it. I eventually found the wallet, but with $500 of my rent gone from it. It’s beginning to feel like I’m being punished for things I’ve never done- when i try being as good a person to others as i can be every day of my life.April 28, 2019 at 4:03 pm #291655
I am sorry your money was taken out of your wallet- it happened to me so many times, leaving my wallet behind or money stolen from my wallet, it was so very distressing to me every time it happened. I wasn’t mindful!
I want to reply more thoroughly to your post when I am back to the computer, in about 14 hours from now.