Hi Anita

That makes sense however if that is the case “trust” is something she didn’t speak of in either a positive or negative way towards anyone.

I look forward to hearing back.

Meatball

One thing that might actually be helpful if you do decide to accept the coming and going behaviour would be to get a therapist for yourself. You are a caregiver and that comes with stress. You deserve some support with that.

Hi Meatball

She would need to see a clinical psychologist specialised in trauma at least weekly. It’s very expensive…

Her level of trauma most therapists can’t treat. It would be malpractice and do more harm than good. She will be actively refused as a patient by most therapists because of the level of her trauma. It’s a very serious thing. You’re basically confronting all of that pain. It is not easy.

I certainly don’t recommend that she goes on a drug trip. Suggesting that isn’t taking her condition seriously. A retreat for a week is also going to be absolutely useless for her.

Dear Meatball:

Her life story before she met you (from what you shared. I will refer to her as R): growing up, R was moved around a lot, house to house, state to state, with a mother and grandmother who were criminals and drug addicts. Her mother went to prison for murder. R was pushed into performing small thefts for her grandmother. Both R’s grandmother and grandfather OD-ed on drugs, and survived. R was adopted by a distance relative, a man and his wife who treated R like Cinderella. The man and his wife divorced following some criminal activity. Soon after, R graduated high school, and lived on her own, “bouncing around from various men and staying with their families“. In her early 20s, she reconnected with the man who adopted her, but soon after, in a hotel room, she found him dead from a drug overdose.

In her mid-20s, R got pregnant and married a man who was mentally and physically abusive to her, and he was a drug addict. She left him soon after the marriage and “for the next decade bounces from home to home, man to man“, with her baby/ toddler/ child daughter (?). At one point, she got into some religion and  married a man she met in her new association, but divorced him after a few months. Some time later, struggling to make ends meet, she moved in with her ex-in-laws, the parents of her abusive ex- husband. Next, you met her: she was 34 when you met her and her daughter was 8.

Somewhere along the way, she was diagnosed with ADHD, and became addicted to Adderall.

Your life story before you met her: “I had a pretty good childhood“- no detail, this is all that you shared about your childhood. You had long-term relationships with women, most lasting 3-5 years, and initiated a breakup with women after meeting someone new. About your past relationships: “I’ve had insecurity issues in most of my relationships and most women I have had relationships with have been ‘broken’ and in need of ‘fixing’…  I’ve always ignored obvious red flags early on in relationships and settled quickly because of my insecurities.”

The relationship with R: you  met her when you were (all ages are approximations) 41, living on your own in your own house, while your two daughters, 8 and 20, from two previous marriages, were not living with you (but with their mothers, I assume). R was 34 at the time, her one daughter was 8, and the two were living with her ex-in-laws (her daughter’s grandparents). About the time you met her, or soon after, some people who had known R, told you “to RUN, stay away, ‘she’s got issues’, etc.” , but you didn’t run away from her, you ran toward her “When I met her, I was immediately attracted to her, the most beautiful girl I had ever met.  I fell hard and fast… passion and lust, wanted to spend all of our free time together… bliss“.

A couple of months into the relationship, R ghosted you out of the blue. Her ex-mother-in-law messaged and called you, telling you that R has not been going to work, and has been staying home, “laying around/ sleeping“, and “to give her time.. that she has some issues, and she does this, give her a few days“. A few days later, R reached out to you, told you that she missed you, and that she was sorry.

A year or so later, R (35) and her daughter (9)  moved in with you (42). You didn’t charge her rent or other money for expenses. Some time later, out of the blue, R told you that “she’s not ‘feeling it’ and wants to move out“. She left and moved back in with her ex-in-laws. A couple of days later, she called you, apologized and moved back with you.

There were loving things she did for the next 6 years or so, but less over the years: “Those things being holding my hand, sitting or laying next to me.  Writing me little love notes and sending multiple texts daily with love type things.  Always saying ‘I love you’ and kissing me goodbye“.

But when you turned (approx..) 48, and she, 41, all that stopped: “A couple years ago all of those little things stopped“. At one time you cheated on her, confessed, began the process of splitting, but she begged you to work it out and stay together. But “cycles of ‘breaking up’ and then staying together… always initiated by her.. (saying) that she is ‘not in love’ with me. That she had NO feelings for me” still exist, currently.

She says she wants to leave you, you ask her to stay, suggesting that she gets help for her traumatic history before she met you. She agrees but doesn’t follow through: “Each time she agrees to stay and that she will get the help that is needed…. (she) rarely seeks any of the help that she says she’ll get.  I do all the research… She rarely reads any of it”.

She expresses disgust of you as a lover or boyfriend (“each day she pulls back more and more… not wanting to be around me, not touching me, just disgusted“, and she wants to be your friend, not a boyfriend ( “She says I’m still her best friend and that she wants me in her life just not as love partners“).

* You listed a few issues you’ve had with R: (1) Early in the relationship with you, R told you about her many relationships with men in great detail, including her relationships with  “great men in great situations“, talking “about the men in ways that made me jealous“.  She told you that in every relationships that felt great, “something just clicks and she is done with them and leaves… for reasons she’s never understood, she just stops having any feelings for them, and just ups and leaves, breaking their heart“.

(2) “She has little to no relationship with any of the small amount of family she does have.  She describes reconnecting with her adopted mother, or brothers, or her half-sister but then just ghosting them and going years at times without communication.  I find this very odd“.

(3) She procrastinates, lives pay check to pay check, never saves, has bad credit and a shopping compulsion, she rarely plans anything, and she says and does things without much thought.

(4) She typically goes to sleep at 7 pm and sleeps a lot, sometimes 12 hours per night, and takes multiple naps on weekends.

(5) She is addicted to Adderall, “When she runs out of it or tries to get off of it, she becomes a Zombie and can not function“.

(6) “She is very lax in her parenting… they do not do things you would normally see a mother and daughter do“.

Back to the current situation and dilemma- your response to her wish to be best friends but not lovers: “I can’t do that, I need her OUT of my life completely to move on… (but) I don’t want to live without her (and daughter) in my life. One day I’m crying all day and the next day I’m OK boxing up more things. One big issue right now is that she has little to no money, she has nowhere to go.  None that will take her in…  She just doesn’t think her past trauma has anything to do with this… HELP – Do you think that I should just let her go? Or do you think that she really can get help and that it’s something out of her control that has her feeling like this?…  is there any recommended ways or places that I could offer her?  I’ve found some retreats…  know a person who went to Peru I believe for treatment with Ayahuasca.“-

– My input this morning, taking in all the above: (1) the number 1 problem that I see is what you stated early on in your original post, 2nd paragraph: your “co-dependency issue“. You are and have been for a long time, desperately dependent on her, emotionally. There are codependent support groups, Coda (Codependent Anonymous). You can look for support meetings online, perhaps attend one in-person, if such exists in your area.

You are focused on her, as if your survival depends on her staying with you. I suppose that like so many of us, you didn’t exit your childhood years feeling secure. I am guessing that growing up, you experienced some abandonment of the emotional kind, a significant lack of emotional support. Attending quality psychotherapy can provide you with much needed help.

(2) If indeed she and her daughter have no money and nowhere to go, and you are providing a rent-free, expenses-paid home for her and for her daughter, I am guessing that she is, sort of, negotiating with you: she doesn’t want to have physical relationship with you, and knowing how desperately you need her to stay, she figures that you’d let her continue to live in your houses as a friend.

(3) There is no doubt in my mind that her traumatic past plays a major role if her relationship with you, as it played in her past relationships with men and with everyone else. Theocratically, if she receives and participates in quality psychotherapy for a long time, she will be back to loving behaviors with you, and on a consistent, dependable basis, right?

But not necessarily so, since she feels disgust in relation to you as a boyfriend/ lover (you used the word disgust, repeatedly), and has felt this way for some time, on a practical level, the disgust may stick with her regardless of therapy. Similar to a person who feels disgust in relation to a particular food, the disgust tends to stay.

Think of her previous relationships: once she felt disgust with men, she didn’t go back to those men, or if she did, she didn’t stay for long, did she?

In summary: I think that the compassionate thing for you to do in this situation is (1) Exercise empathy for yourself. She needs help, but so do you! Seek help with your codependency, (2)Accept the ending of the romantic- physical relationship with R. Do not offer her to go on spiritual or therapeutic retreats or anything of the kind. Instead, work with her as a friend (and nothing more or less than a friend) to relocate elsewhere, so that she indeed leaves your house and lives with her daughter safely elsewhere.

I hope to read your thoughts about my input after you take some time to consider it. We can continue to communicate on the matter, if you would like to.

anita

Thanks Anita and Helcat!

Anita – I am most definitely working on my co-dependancy issues.  I currently have a therapist and just in the last couple days found a few podcasts that have been a help.  I for sure understand that I have the co-dependacy as an anxious attachment style.  I will look into the support group you mentioned for sure.

For my childhood I could see a lack of emotional support.  My mother was smothering and did everything for us, however wasn’t the type to speak about love or supply much in the way of advice.  My father was a high tempered dad that we were scared of.   No physical abuse or mental abuse.

As far as R’s previous relationships I’m not aware of any she went back to and I don’t hold out any hope that she would leave, get help and want to come back.   I’m sure she’s going to take the path she is used to which is the easy path of finding the next man and restarting the cycle.

Thank you for the heads up on the spiritual and therapeutic retreats

I am trying to figure out exactly how much financial burden I should take on for her to get a place.  The last thing i’m going to do is put her out on the street.   Her daughter is planning to stay here, but that could also bring a new set of issues.   She has 9 months until she’s 18 and is not close to her father and just doesn’t understand her mother at this point.

Helcat – you mentioned about her possibly getting pushed to a suicidal place.  She did mention a couple nights ago that “while high” (she took 2 night time THC gummies which she never does) that she had a panic attack (which she said she hadn’t had in a very long time, nor have I ever known her to have one) and a suicidal feeling that she just didn’t want to be here anymore.

Dear Meatball:

You are welcome! Good to read that you are  working on your co-dependency issues and anxious attachment style, and with a therapist’s help. Also, good to read that you “don’t hold out any hope that she would leave, get help and want to come back.“- sometimes, in certain contexts, hope is not a good thing.

“I am trying to figure out exactly how much financial burden I should take on for her to get a place.  The last thing I’m going to do is put her out on the street. Her daughter is planning to stay here, but that could also bring a new set of issues.  She has 9 months until she’s 18 and is not close to her father and just doesn’t understand her mother at this point“- (1) it is very kind of you to think of having her daughter stay with you, and it is decent of you to not want her mother out on the street, (2) I understand your concern regarding finances, and regarding contact with the mother if you have her daughter living with you.

Since her daughter is not yet 18, legally still a child, is she qualified for government sponsored help in regard to housing, since her mother can’t properly take care of her?

Maybe her mother is qualified for such help, being that she is emotionally unwell…?

anita

Dear Pandinha:

“However, he quickly started to make a lot of sexual, dirty jokes… I told him that I was in love with him. After that, he got even more straightforward with the sexting, the cheesiness, the pics and.. I kept being very stimulated, so I honestly thought I was desiring him, that I wanted to be with him, etc… Then, one day, when we were videochatting, looking at him started bothering me. I thought he looked gross and I felt very repulsed about the idea of even kissing him… all the things I wanted to do with him, the excitement is simply gone… I felt like he played me… I felt like he fooled me…  I don’t really feel like talking to him anymore… Gladly will wait for your input… on… what this might be.“-

– here are 3 possibilities in regard to what this might be. Any of the following may be true to you.. or not, or a combination of the following may be true to you: (1) one of your parents taught you that men only want one thing (sex), they will say anything to get you to have sex with them, and you should not be fooled by what they say (that you are pretty, that they love you, etc.), (2) one of your parents taught you that sex is a bad thing, that you are a good girl, and that good girls don’t do bad things, (3) when you were a child, you were betrayed by a person you trusted (perhaps a parent, perhaps another family member).

Any of these true to you?

anita

Dear Pandinha:

“I get annoyed and triggered so easily. If he tells me something, I might view as bad or degrading about my personality (which my father used to do all the time), I get annoyed and quickly withdraw from that conversation… I’m desperately looking for that initial enchantment“- reads like your experience with your father gets reactivated in the context of your communication with this guy. It often happens that strong childhood experiences get reactivated in adult contexts. You project your father into this guy.. again, a very common phenomenon.

I figure the initial enchantment was made possible by the temporary, initial absence of this projection.

anita