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I thought he was my forever til the end

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  • #370835
    Katie
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    I haven’t heard from bf since Sunday, which isn’t unusual.  He did mention he’s not feeling well; may get COVID tested, but we mostly communicate on the weekends.  His COVID issues are really his OCD kicking in; every sniffle is COVID.

    Quite frankly, I needed a break from him this week.  My daughter the other morning was very upset about bf.  She doesn’t know why he formed a father-like relationship with her, only to use her and hurt her.  It’s really putting her in a not so good place, and she did reach out to her therapist in an email which she let me read.  She mentioned that I seem to be ok, which she couldn’t understand.  I told her I can’t spend every moment thinking about bf. I think about her, her brother, me.  I keep busy, but I’m not ok.  But I can’t let the times that I’m not ok consume me, because although I get sad, I deserve better, and so does she. I told her that I will have people come into my life, and she has her whole life ahead of her and many people will come into her life.  We have to establish our boundaries with those people for our own peace of mind.  We continue on with our therapy.

    This morning, as I wrote in my journal, I was angry.  Angry at bf for what he’s done, angry at my daughter for not being more resilient and moving forward with her life (and not self-medicating with alcohol on occasion), and angry at myself, for not telling bf a year ago to “f” off.  I know this sounds so unlike me, but I was in a very angry place.  And the harm he’s caused to my daughter is inexcusable.  She was off limits in our relationship.

    I know I’m venting, but I know I’ve been quiet this week.  I think I just needed to get angry.  And I didn’t care where he was mentally and emotionally, because seeing my daughter hurting is heartbreaking to me.  And it’s all because of him.  But, I reinforced that we learn lessons from relationships.  Her response was “Believe me, I’ll never let anyone you’re with in again.”  Which I understand at this point, and also think is safe.

    Katie

    #370836
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Katie:

    “My daughter the other morning was very upset about bf. She doesn’t know why he formed a father-like relationship with her, only to use her and hurt her”- children of minor and young adult age (when still vulnerable) experience their parents’ romantic relationships by proxy (minus the sexual/romantic part)- in her mind and heart she experienced the emotional equivalent of a romantic relationship where the man used her and hurt her. Fast forward, she meets a man.. she’ll be suspicious, distrusting, fearful and angry because she was already used and hurt by a man, bf (in addition to have been abused by a previous man, her father).

    “I told her I can’t spend every moment thinking about bf. I think about her, her brother, me…I deserve better, and so does she.. We have to establish our boundaries with those people for our own peace of mind”- excellent response.

    “This morning.. I was angry. Angry.. at myself, for not telling bf a year ago to ‘f’ off”- it’s not too late to tell him to f-off, really. It makes me smile, seems most appropriate to tell him just that. It may help your daughter too, to see her mother reacting appropriately to a man who she feels used her and hurt her.

    If she witnesses you telling bf to f-off (in these words or other strong words) may empower her, make her feel that her anger is not mute, and that there is such a thing as justice in relationships.

    “This morning.. I was angry. Angry at bf.. angry at my daughter.. angry at myself… I know this sounds so unlike me, but I was in a very angry place”- anger is not unlike you, it is part of you just as it is part of every human being on the face of the earth. There is a valid message in your anger, it is telling you that there is something you should do.

    What could that something be?

    “the harm he’s caused to my daughter is inexcusable. She was off limits in our relationship… seeing my daughter hurting is heartbreaking to me. And it’s all because of him”- do right by your daughter, tell bf to f-off (or other strong words) and tell him why- do it in the presence of your daughter.

    anita

    #371145
    Katie
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    My daughter seems to have these upsetting missing moments of bf when she’s been drinking.  I’m beginning to believe that she has a problem and is self-medicating. Once she turned 21, she started to drink.  She doesn’t drink daily, but when she does it’s this day long binge and it interferes with her therapy…she misses appointments.  The past couple of times she did this binge, she had so much stomach pain that I told her that I believe she’s having alcohol gastritis.  I recall my ex having this issue.  And last night she had it after a day-long binge.  She drinks slowly over the course of 12 hours, but consumes a lot of alcohol.  She said it seems like the stomach pain is worse from the last time, and I told her “that’s because it is worse, because it’s getting worse.  Your body is telling you something and you’re not listening.”  I simply couldn’t feel sorry for her.  She’ll be sleeping just about all day today, but tomorrow she and I need to have a talk. I cannot live through burying my child, as her father’s mother had to do.

    I actually spoke with bf over the weekend, and it was agreed that we would see a therapist together.  I do not feel his therapist is qualified to handle his issues, just from some of the things he told me.  He says he does most of the talking which isn’t good in my eyes.  She needs to interject and when she does, the answer he gives is just left at that.  He was talking about something, and she interrupted and asked him “is what’s bothering you the image you have in your mind of Katie and the other guy?”  He said “yes.” And she let him go on with what he was talking about before she asked that question.  She brushed over the issue, which is a huge issue.  It would have been a good time for her to educate him on trauma and reframing, but she didn’t.

    I saw my therapist this past Monday, and he said he would welcome a meeting with me and bf.  He said it would help me make decisions about the relationship.  I said, “You want me to be present when you have the first appointment with him.”  He said, “Absolutely, bring it on.”  He said he would be professional, but wants to really dig into this.  My therapist is a PsyD, and he doesn’t hold back.  He’s not nasty, but to the point.   It will be an interesting visit. Of course part of what needs to be done is making amends with my daughter.  Bf knows this.

    I need to either take slow steps forward with bf, or close this chapter.  Limbo isn’t working.  Perhaps the meeting on the 28th will give me insight.  I’m taking this one day at a time.

    Katie

     

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Katie.
    #371150
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Katie:

    “My daughter seems to have these upsetting missing moments of bf when she’s been drinking”- it doesn’t mean that her upsetting-missing-moments are not authentic. Alcohol causes disinhibition, bringing to the surface what is felt deep inside.

    “She drinks slowly over the course f 12 hours, but consumes a lot of alcohol”- because she is an adult living in another adult’s (your) home, you have the right to not permit her to carry on this drinking in your home. You can let her know that her drinking is grounds for eviction.

    You shared that bf’s therapist asked him a question, paraphrased: are you bothered when you have an image in your mind of Katie and another guy? He answered: ‘yes’, and she didn’t follow up on his reply. This does not sound good to me: it’s a no brainer that such an image bothers him (and would bother almost any man engaging in images of his gf and another man), so the only therapeutic reason to ask him this question is to create an opening for a  conversation.

    He answered yes (an answer that should not have been a news item to her), and she didn’t use it as an opening to a conversation- so why did she ask… maybe to check if he wants to say more than yes. He didn’t, so she didn’t pressure.

    He told you earlier that he felt comfortable with her from the beginning.. .. probably because she does not challenge him at all. I hope that bf will attend a therapy with your therapist, but I doubt that bf will respond well to a therapist who challenges him. It will probably make him feel uncomfortable, and he will shut down or even leave the session early, if he attends it at all.

    “part of what needs to be done is making amends with my daughter. Bf knows this”- his words, whatever they may be, are not going to be adequate to make amends with her. I believe that he should not be in her life for a long time,  even if you and him get back together. If a relationship resumes, I suggest that you don’t re-introduce him into your daughter’s life for six months or so, and re-evaluate it then; meet him at his home, not yours (while your daughter lives in your home).

    “I need to either take slow steps forward with bf, or close this chapter. Limbo isn’t working”- Limbo is working for him, so far- his therapist is making him feel comfortable in limbo, having him sit comfortably on soft pillows, figuratively (and maybe literally, in her office). He shows up to “therapy” with her, therapy that is not about healing but about feeling better/ comfortable while in limbo.

    anita

    #371658
    anita
    Participant

    Merry Christmas, Katie!

    anita

    #371677
    Katie
    Participant

    Merry Christmas Anita!

    Katie

    #372216
    Katie
    Participant

    Happy New Year Anita!

    Bf and I went to therapy together seeing my therapist.  My therapist made bf feel quite comfortable about seeing us together, as he has seen me for decades alone.  Bf liked him and felt comfortable.

    My therapist asked bf many questions. I didn’t do too much talking because I knew that my therapist was trying to get a feel for what was going on with bf.  He did tell bf he knows that he has this image looping in his mind, and bf agreed.  But my therapist said that no matter how many questions you ask Katie and how many different ways you ask the questions, you’re never going to be satisfied with the answer, because this is your loop, which you need to stop. Katie can’t stop it.

    Bf also offered the story of how he stopped over my house one day to talk with my daughter, and I told him not to go up to her bedroom.  Bf said he thought “someone” was upstairs that I didn’t want him to see.  My therapist said, “After 6 years together, it this what you think of Katie?  That as soon as you walk out, someone else walks in?”  Bf said it was because of the way I was dressed.  I said I didn’t want you to go up to daughter’s bedroom because it’s a violation of her privacy and a boundary.  Then I said that I wear what I was wearing all the time.  Bf said, you looked dressed up. I said I was wearing capri jeans and a black shirt.  I wear those with you all the time.  Then he said it wasn’t your usual dress down look. Then I started to say something and my therapist interrupted us and said, “Stop.  This right here what you’re both doing has to stop.  This constant banter of him accusing you of something and you explaining yourself has to stop.  Katie should say that’s not true, and that’s the end of it.  There’s none of this back and forth over an accusation.”  I then realized that I do that all the time.  He accuses me and I explain myself 400 different ways. And, it has to stop.

    We did make another appointment to go back in a couple weeks, so we’ll see how that goes.  Although right now I am focusing on my daughter, and that is my main focus.

    Katie

    #372220
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Katie:

    Happy New Year to you as well! What a great therapist you have, I am so impressed. I am thinking now that if the two of you keep seeing your therapist regularly, for a few months, and the relationship does not show promising signs of healing- then it will be time to let go of bf.

    This is It, Katie- as I see it- bf has no valid excuse to stop seeing your therapist with you: he needs this therapy, and there can be no better couple-therapist than yours.

    anita

     

    #374098
    Katie
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    I wanted to update you on what has been going on with the therapy.  Last night we had therapy and I must say that I attended the appointment already angered by the past year that has unfolded.  I asked my psychologist how my ex-bf and I are supposed to communicate outside of a therapeutic setting when I bring up issues or things that offend me and he pacifies me with saying he understands but then days later he comes back with “You have no right to tell me……”  I don’t know what is true and what is not.  My offenses and concern is always the same… about him viewing nudity/sex on tv and movies when I find it offensive and degrading to women.  That even when I’m not with him, he should not be viewing when I find it offensive and objectifying women.   I told ex-bf that (believe it or not he’s religious) I don’t hang upside down crosses in my house and remove before he comes over.  He would know that during the week I have the crosses hanging, not caring about his offense, truly indicating who I am.

    Therefore, with the help of my psych, I told ex-bf it was a deal breaker.  That it went against the core of who I am.  I would never offend him, and haven’t.  My psych asked him how do you feel about what Katie just said.  With that ex-bf got up and held out his hand (gesturing to shake mine).  I said I’m not shaking your hand. And he left the appointment.

    So, he chose nudity and sex and porn over me.  That’s what I am telling myself and that’s what is making this so easy to walk away from.  My psych told me there is really something very not right with ex-bf.  My psych has been doing therapy for 30 years and has never seen a patient like ex-bf.  He also told me he doesn’t want this for me.  After a 25 year abusive marriage hadn’t I had enough?  I agreed. So now, I move on knowing I did everything I could to resuscitate this relationship.  But I cannot be with someone who offends and disrespects who I am.

    Thank you for all your advice.  I continue on with my own therapy to hopefully understand the lesson I’ve learned.

    Katie

     

    #374101
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Katie:

    I am sorry tha it didn’t work out, not that I am surprised. When you shared with me some time ago that now ex bf  will be attending couple therapy with you, I envisioned him walking out in the middle of a therapy session, which is what really happened.

    And before I read this sentence in your recent post: “My psych told me there is something really not right with ex-bf”, I thought the same thing: His OCD in combination with one or more other mental disorders makes him a sick man, sick and angry.

    “he chose nudity and sex and porn over me”- I think it’s more his anger that is behind him leaving the therapy session, the same anger that is behind him saying to you:  “You have no right to tell me..”, after he said that he understands. This man is bad news for you and for your daughter.

    And you are welcome, thank you for the update, and feel free to post again anytime you would like to.

    anita

    #374188
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Katie:

    You shared something in your most recent post, Feb 5, in regard to whom we’ve been referring to as bf, that I don’t remember you sharing before: “My offense and concern is always the same.. about him viewing nudity/ sex on tv and movies when I find it offensive and degrading to women”-

    I went back to the beginning of your thread with his new piece of information to see if I can come up with something new. Nov 2-4, 2020: “He is passive aggressive and has OCD; he plays mental movies of me with others I’ve dated… His therapist said that he should not see me for awhile.. because he is so angry at me.. My boyfriend mentioned a trauma from Catholic school that he never talk about… It’s almost as if his OCD ramped up when he thought I was sexually involved in high school with someone.. (who) I believe molested/ raped (me).. my boyfriend kept prying.. he wanted answers… It always puzzled me that he had no real issues with my ex… His anger directed toward this guy with regard to me.. that, in his OCD mind, this guy and I had this amazing sexual experience”-

    – I have a theory now, combining that new piece of information with the Nov 1-4 information: his Catholic school trauma was an event or series of events in which he was sexually molested. He enjoyed part of the sexual experience when molested (not uncommon, and it does not change the fact that the victim was indeed a victim of sexual abuse).

    Fast forward, he finds out that a man sexually molested you in high school, he gets angry at the molester (yours and his- from Catholic school) and at the victim (you and him, because he enjoyed it, and he believes that you enjoyed it as well, “in his.. mind.. I had this amazing sexual experience”).

    This is why he did not obsess about you having sex with your ex-husband (not having been sexually molested by your husband, as far as he knows).  He is terribly conflicted in regard to sex: a mixture of intense enjoyment, shame and anger.

    anita

    #374240
    Katie
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thank you for thinking enough to go back and research what I’ve posted.  I have no idea if ex-bf was molested; I do know he was abused.  Something happened to him that he won’t share, and I didn’t ever pry.  It would have been nice if he had done the same for me.

    When we went into this last therapy session I decided I would go back to the basics and not his OCD stuff.  As I mentioned, our discussions and fallout of the discussion was always the same.  In my mind I thought this is a deal breaker for me so it this is not going to change, there’s no reason to go on any further.

    What you pieced together could be absolutely true.  I hope for his sake he finds a really good therapist that will dig a bit deep and not just hold his hand and rub his back, so to say.

    I do feel lighter, as if a weight has lifted off of me.  I no longer am waiting for the other shoe to drop.

    I did send him his key in the mail, and told him not to bother to return mine, that it no longer fits in the lock. (I had them changed, as my son had some concerns since ex-bf has just shown up at my house before.  He wasn’t sure what reaction he would have to me returning the key.)  I also told him I am awaiting word on our cemetery plot to see if the double can be split into 2 singles, then we can each do what we please with our separate plot.  A few years back I went to get a plot, he tagged along, and wanted one too.  Big mistake getting the double.  He always wanted to put the gravestone there marking the grave site, but I refused.

    I guess now he was my lesson.  And what a lesson!  Thank you Anita~

    Katie

    #374246
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Katie:

    You are welcome. I read your post but will be able to reply no later than in 15 hours from now.

    anita

    #374267
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Katie:

    “he was abused. Something happened to him that he won’t share”- he did not share what happened to him with you, but he inflicted the pain of what happened to him on you. And he kept doing it again and again.

    “I hope for his sake he finds a really good therapist that will dig a bit deep”- there may not be a therapist good enough to dig a bit without him getting up and leaving.

    “I do feel lighter, as if a weight has lifted off of me”- I am glad to read this, and looking at the title of your thread, “I thought he was my forever till the end”- I am glad this weight will not be your forever till the end.

    It feels good to read that you changed your lock so that his key to your place will not fit, and that you sent his key back to him, telling him to not bother to return your key because it no longer fits the lock, and that you are trying to have the double cemetery plot split into 2 singles.

    Overall, having read all that you shared about him, I do not like him. I don’t like him because he inflicted unnecessary pain on a woman who did not hurt him, a woman who truly loved him for a long time, and he did it repeatedly, and when he had the opportunity to get the help of an excellent therapist, he could have used that opportunity to stop hurting you, but he walked out. I hope he stays out of your life forever more, and/ or that you keep him out.

    anita

    #374344
    Katie
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    I do love him, but I don’t like him.  I don’t like how insignificant he finds me.  I should have seen the flags along the way, but ignored them.

    I guess now he can relax and not obsess over the mental movies of me with others.  He can finally put his mind at ease, since we are no longer together.  Now his mind can be at peace.

    And, in time, I will have peace as well.

    Katie

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