November 4, 2020 at 6:12 am #368643
“He claims he’s loved me since 6th grade.. he said he was very attracted to me but felt I was out of his league… he is now jealous of people I was with in high school.. Simply because he wanted to be with me, he wanted to be my first”- imagine that 13 year old boy, 14, 15…. feeling sexual, wanting to have sex with girls but believing that he will be rejected if he tries, that he won’t be good at it. He looks at other boys in school who confidently pursue and have sex with girls, feeling and doing what he desperately wishes he was able to do, and he is jealous of them. He is angry that he is not confident like them, and that he doesn’t get to have sex, but they do.
Fast forward he is still jealous and still angry at those high school boys, angry enough to “look up where this guy is buried and wants to go spit on his grave”.
He is not jealous of your ex-husband (“The only guy he has no issue with is my ex”) because your ex was not one of the boys in his school 40 years ago, he has no memory of your ex, and so, your ex doesn’t belong in his obsession. He is jealous of the boy from school that he does remember.
“he wanted to be with me, he wanted to be my first”- and he is jealous and angry at the one he believes got to be your first. In his mind, that guy owns you somehow for having been your first. “We even have cemetery plots together”- he wants to own you in death, but owning you in death doesn’t compensate him for not having owned you in life, 40 years ago.
In his mind, 40 years ago is happening now and you are still having sex with the other guy. In his mind, it is still happening now, and he is still tormented by the thoughts and images of another guy doing what he wishes to do but can’t, “the thought of me and this guy having sex is tormenting him”.
Tormented by the thought that other guys do better sexually than him, that he doesn’t measure up, he wants to know the sexual details of what happened between you and other guy, so that he can compare and figure out if indeed the other guy is sexually superior to him, “asking the same questions about the relationship over and over, and expecting me to provide more and more info”.
He is not asking you these questions so that you heal. He is asking you these questions because he is obsessed with feeling sexually inadequate and inferior to the other guys in school.
You wrote regarding the other guy, now dead: “I believe I was molested/ raped by this person and my mind blocked it out.. I want to leave this alone and I don’t want to be badgered about it”- it is very wrong and selfish of him to ask you questions aimed at making him feel better about his sexual performance compared to the dead guy. I hope you never, ever again answer any such question by him.
“he needs to work on his own issues of his past, not my past”- in his mind, the past is still happening, now!
“It’s almost as if his OCD ramped up when he thought I was sexually involved in high school with someone he hated in high school”- he is still in high school, in his own mind. “I know.. sounds crazy”- yes, it is crazy to believe that 40 years ago is still happening. If you asked him: do you know that 40 years ago is gone? He will say: of course I know. But he feels like it is still happening. This is the difference between OCD and psychosis: the OCD person strongly and convincingly feels that something is happening, but thinks that it is not happening; the psychotic strongly and convincingly feels and thinks that something is happening (something that is not happening, that is, in real life).
“the past is the past and there’s nothing to do about that now”- you are sane then, he is not.
anitaNovember 4, 2020 at 5:00 pm #368670
Thank you so much for the insight. He is very much in high school, but I never really thought about the comparison of him to others. He would often want to know if he satisfies me sexually, constantly wanting reassurance. I never even thought in his mind he was going back to high school. I can hardly remember high school, and I told him as much. I’m 58!
I do not answer any question about the guy in high school. I really don’t have the answers he’s looking for because my memory is so poor. But, there is no answer that would ever stop the onslaught of questions; no answer that would satisfy him and be done with it.
Again, I hope his therapist is qualified to help him. If not, the relationship will not survive.
Thank you again,
KatieNovember 4, 2020 at 6:48 pm #368671
You are welcome. I will be back to your thread and reply when I am back to the computer in about 12 hours from now.
anitaNovember 5, 2020 at 6:10 am #368682
“He would often want to know if he satisfies me sexually, constantly wanting reassurance”—> You reassure him—>He doesn’t believe your reassurance because in his mind a voice keeps saying to him: you are not good enough, other boys are good, you.. are.. not!!! —> He asks you about the other boys, in particular about one other boy: what did he do to you, how did he do it, did you like it…. what kind of magic did he do to you that I am unable to do???—>
—> You tell him that you don’t remember, that it wasn’t anything good or magical—> he doesn’t believe you—> he asks you again and again; like a police interrogator, he keeps asking you the same questions in different ways, assaults you with an onslaught of questions, trying to break you so that you will admit the truth.. because all along he is believing that voice in his mind that is telling him: you are not good enough, you are less-than, you are less-than the other guy, etc.—> you try to tell him that high school was long ago, that your memory is so poor—> “there is no answer that would ever stop the onslaught of questions; no answer that would satisfy him and be done with it”.
“I never even thought in his mind he was going back to high school. I can hardly remember high school, and I told him as much. I’m 58!”- his emotional- sexual experience in high school was so unpleasant and intense that he never forgot it’ he keeps re-living it.
“I do not answer any question about the guy in high school. I really don’t have the answers he’s looking for because my memory is so poor”- what he is looking for is for the voice in his head to be silent, to no longer tell him that he is not good enough, that he is less-than. Your voice cannot silence the voice in his head. It is not about what you say- it is about what the voice in his head keeps telling him.
There is absolutely nothing you can do to silence that voice; he is unable to silence that voice, his therapist so far has not been able to do so.
“I hope his therapist is qualified to help him. If not, the relationship will not survive”- to quiet that voice (beyond what certain psychiatric drugs can do, if he was willing to experiment with the SSRI anti-depressants), he would have to talk to his therapist about his emotional-sexual experience as a child, starting earlier than 13, look for what started his core-belief that he is not good enough/ less-than others. He would then have to examine the core-belief and figure out if it was true, when it was formed.
Only if and when he changes his untrue core-belief, the voice that keeps repeating this untrue core-belief to him will gradually lessen and lessen until it is no more.
There is nothing at all that you can do to help him. In reality, as you tried to help him in this regard, he was angry at you for allegedly lying to him, for believing (so he believes) that you know that he is less-than but you are not telling him.. so he tortures you with his onslaught of questions, expressing his unjust anger at you at times in passive-aggressive ways, and verbal abuse.. he is hurting you.
The best you can do in this situation is no longer give him the opportunity to hurt you in the ways he is hurting you.
anitaNovember 5, 2020 at 9:43 am #368687
His therapist is bringing him back to catholic school, so hopefully things will progress from there. I’m hoping she deals with his inadequacies from high school and finds the link as to why he is so obsessed with my high school days.
And, you hit the nail on the head, it is like a police interrogation, asking the same question in different ways. I have even said to him “you’ve already asked me this and we’ve talked about it.” And, yes, he does accuse me of lying because my memory is so foggy that sometimes the information I give is incorrect, or I rethink it and say that’s not what happened. Nonetheless, I shouldn’t be on trial for my past, any of it; the good, bad, or ugly.
I don’t respond to any text messages that touch on the past. Our last two communications he did not mention anything of the past, so perhaps that’s progress. (Can you tell I’m holding on for hope?)
Thank you again for your insight. I truly does help.
KatieNovember 5, 2020 at 10:13 am #368688
You are most welcome. “I don’t respond to any text messages that touch on the past”- good choice.
“Our last two communications he did not mention anything of the past, so perhaps that’s progress”- it is progress if he does not mention your past ever again. If he mentions it again, then the two times he didn’t were only a break.
Progress would be if instead of talking to you about your past, he will be talking to you about his past.
“Can you tell I’m holding on for hope?”- yes, you shared that you are hopeful, emotionally exhausted, and considering ending this relationship, but also hopeful. Did you mean to ask me if your hope is realistic, or if you should be hoping?
anitaNovember 5, 2020 at 11:21 am #368691
Is it realistic to be hopeful?
KatieNovember 5, 2020 at 11:54 am #368692
In regard to this man and your future relationship with him, it is realistic for you to hope that the two of you will one day resume a relationship and live together, but I don’t think that it is realistic for you to hope for the same kind of relationship to resume, the kind where (in your mind, and perhaps his as well), the two of you “seemed perfect for each other.. happy to just be sitting next to each other on the sofa holding hands. Just simple, easy things”.
The simple, easy that you experienced was just a break from his complicated, difficult inner experience of life. The next together with him is way, way more likely to involve a lot of distress for you than it is be simple or easy.
If I had a magic wand I will change a lot of things in this world. In the context of this thread, I would make his OCD disappear, make him understand that he is good enough and so, make it possible for him to be the loving, mentally-healthy partner that you need him to be.
November 5, 2020 at 5:16 pm #368701
- This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
I realize the relationship wouldn’t be the same; and I wouldn’t want it to be. He would have to be healthy in mind. I would have to trust that he would not, after awhile, pick up where he left off before the break. I don’t want that relationship.
I many times wished for the magic wand. Wow, wouldn’t that be great~
Thank you again,
KatieNovember 5, 2020 at 6:34 pm #368702
Remember that it’s not right for him to torment you with what torments him. He should endure his suffering without inflicting it on you. Love means just that, to not inflict suffering on the one you allegedly love. My concern is that he is angry at you, as if you are the cause of his suffering, while you are not at all the cause of any of his suffering.
anitaNovember 6, 2020 at 5:18 am #368720
Yes, he is angry at me because he thinks I am the cause of his suffering. He’s made this known in the past. I have heard in the past “You’ve ruined my happiness.” Meaning, his thoughts are directly because of me. Once he found out about the high school guy, I all of a sudden was not who he thought I was.
I do know that I am the same person he met 6 years ago. I’m not the person from high school. People grow, but I guess he has not. I do also know that he does not appear to be the same person I met 6 years ago. This past year he’s been a Jekyll / Hyde, to the point where I could have spoken with him at lunchtime and then 4 hours later he’s angry at me, because of the thoughts in his head. I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Not a great way to live.
But here I am….forever hopeful.
KatieNovember 6, 2020 at 5:39 am #368721
“Once he found out about the high school guy, I all of a sudden was not who he thought I was”- who does he think you are then, did he tell you who he now thinks you are?
anitaNovember 6, 2020 at 7:27 am #368722
I think he thought I was this pure, innocent child. His first sexual experience was with his wife; mine was in high school. I guess he thought everyone should be like he was. Although on the other hand he will say that he thinks he was “not normal” in high school. He didn’t have the “normal” high school experiences as others. I guess he wanted me to be like him…. no sex until marriage.
But, having sex with 1 guy in high school is not a lot. I was with 1 guy for a couple years in high school. He was my first and of course this doesn’t sit well with my boyfriend either. He actually had my first’s high school picture on his cell phone pics and showed it to me. At first I had to really look to see who it was, then was like what the heck do you have that for? To him it was just a reminder of my first.
KatieNovember 6, 2020 at 7:57 am #368723
If he indeed knew and loved you ever since 6th grade and all through high school (“We went to school together as kids, 6th- high school seniors. He claims he’s loved me since 6th grade”)- then how can it be that he did not notice for two whole years in high school, while loving you from afar, that you were “with 1 guy for a couple of years in high school”?
Maybe what he claims to be true (“He claims he loved me”) is not true, maybe it is highly exaggerated, maybe during school, he at times felt love for you, at other times he felt love for others (but mostly felt angry at everyone).
* If he cares about/ values being “pure, innocent”- does he not value honesty as being something that is pure and innocent (and exaggerating/ distorting the truth- impure and guilty?
“His first sexual experience was with his wife; mine was in high school. I guess he thought everyone should be like he was”- no, he wishes that he was like everyone else. He’s been jealous for a long, long time that he did not experience what others did in high school, and he still is jealous of you and of the dead guy, on whose grave he wants to spit, as he told you.
In school, he saw himself as the odd one, and not in a good way. Other students were the lucky ones, the fortunate ones, the happy ones (in his own mind), while he was the only unhappy one. He envied Everyone, was angry at Everyone. Fast forward, he meets you and makes believe somehow, at times that you are like him, on his side of Unhappy. Later on he.. finds out that you are one of the Everyone whom he still envies, at whom he is still angry.
anitaNovember 6, 2020 at 10:19 am #368730
Your insight amazes me. He expressed many times that he did not feel “normal” in high school. Your last paragraph says it all.
He has known for years that I lost my virginity in high school. He would not offer this information about himself to me. It wasn’t important to me so I didn’t press for an answer. I guess he was embarrasses/ashamed. I don’t know.
Knowledge of the dead guy somehow threw gasoline on the fire of the one I lost my virginity to, as this became an issue as well.
I do feel I need to mention that after my divorce I went away on an overnight stay with a man I was seeing, but there was no sex involved. My boyfriend found out about this simply because he and I were planning vacation and he was thinking about staying at the B&B where I stayed with this other man. Me, being honest to a fault, suggested another B&B because I knew due to his jealousy if he found out I stayed with someone else at the inn he and I were staying at, he would want to know why I didn’t tell him. But I guess I should have kept my mouth shut. Just vacationing in that town threw him into a funk. Apparently, I was supposed to be his and his alone. (He has said that before.)
My life was my life. I can’t change it. It made me who I am today. And I guess his life made him who he is today.