Hi Adam,

I think you handled your conversation with her wonderfully and with lots of self-awareness. For example this is a great and mature response:

She said she wants to talk and wants me in her life but I told her she needs to show me she wants me in her life and take action on it.

Yes, absolutely! She needs to show she is willing to break the push-and-pull cycle, and do something towards healing her own trauma.

She was the one that said we need to move on so I agreed and said I’m moving on, and that she needs to fix things. I gave her the treatment she gave me and she got upset!

Wow, good that you’ve noticed it! So you stood up for yourself, for your own best interests, and she got upset. Yeah, because so far when she would unjustifiably accuse you of hurting her, you would always end up apologizing and reassuring her you didn’t mean anything bad, and that you do love her.

Also, she was the one who was controlling the relationship because she was coming and going, and you’d always accept her back. True, she would apologize for overreacting, but then a short while later she would do it again. She would switch to this other, traumatized personality, and she would be unreachable again. You were accepting it and enduring it, having a lot of understanding, but she had no intention to work on herself.

So it was like she can do whatever she wants – you’d always be there for her when she chooses to go back and re-start the cycle. But now that you told her she can’t just go back without making some changes in herself – that’s what got her upset. You set a boundary for her, and she doesn’t like it.

After many messages she finally said this; If I’m being honest about what I want selfishly I’d be in your arms right now where I feel safe and comfortable and everything feels normal and I’d be happy. I say selfishly because I know that I will only result in more pain for both of us when we go through what we’ve gone through all over again.

Yeah, because if she doesn’t want to work on herself, it will cause more unnecessary pain for both of you. Specially for you, who are on the receiving end of her traumatic response.

She went on to say she loves me but is sorry she can’t give me what I want, taking both our best interest in mind. It’s like she is holding off pushing me away fully though and she doesn’t want me to push her away either but I have to cut ties I think.

Yes, when she tells you she can’t give you what you want, she’s telling you she doesn’t want to work on herself. She wants the status quo to continue, to be able to go back to you whenever she feels like, without taking any steps towards her healing.

Yes I agree she just wants a shoulder to try on it feels like, but then at times she doesn’t want to talk.

Well, I am thinking now that sometimes her not wanting to talk was a part of manipulation. As in, giving you the silent treatment for “hurting” her. Because that was the worst for you – when she cut you off and didn’t want to talk. Another reason why she sometimes couldn’t talk could have been the dissociation, i.e. the trauma response. So maybe she wasn’t doing that on purpose. But sometimes, it seems to me it was a way to “punish” you for what she felt was you hurting her.

It feels like she doesn’t want too loose me in case it doesn’t work out elsewhere or she feels ready one day.

Yes, I think you’re seeing it well. She wants you as a backup, she wants to have you attached to her, in case she needs you.

She is telling you she wants to be “safe in your arms”, but in the very next moment she won’t feel safe in you arms and will want to leave. And she wants you to accept that dynamic. Basically, to be “on standby” for her, whenever she needs it. Which is very selfish.

Neither of these are fair on me, I am starting to notice how much better I deserved.

I am so glad you’re starting to notice it, and starting to set a boundary to protect yourself.

I have to cut ties I think. This is such a messed up situation.

Yes, I think so too. If you stay friends with her, you will be her shoulder to cry on. But even worse, I think you’ll be tempted to get into relationship again, because it’s hard to hear such sweet words like she’s been telling you, and stay indifferent. So I think she could easily sway you into the relationship again, which would drag you to the “worst place in your life”, as you said.

Or if you can stay strong and resist her charms, you’d be still spending a lot of time and energy listening to her complaints, trying to help her, but with no real progress. So I agree that the best would be to cut ties, because it seems to me that nothing good can come out of you staying attached to her.

Hi Adam,

I am glad you’re feeling better now, even if a bit shaken. But at least you’re clear now that you can’t continue as before, accepting her unconditionally, and basically, playing by her rules. Which were hurting you.

She is just so conflicted in her thoughts and about everything she says.

I think she is confused and conflicted because she doesn’t want to admit (perhaps not even to herself) that she doesn’t want to change. That’s why when you told her you’re moving on and that she needs to fix things, she got upset. (She was the one that said we need to move on so I agreed and said I’m moving on, and that she needs to fix things. I gave her the treatment she gave me and she got upset!)

She doesn’t want to take responsibility for her behavior, and I think this is visible from this what she told you:

I say selfishly because I know that I will only result in more pain for both of us when we go through what we’ve gone through all over again.

She doesn’t say she is responsible for the pain you two went through, but just that there was a lot of pain. So even though she says she doesn’t want you go through the pain again, she doesn’t want to admit that she is responsible for that pain. Or even if she admits that she is responsible, she doesn’t want to do anything to alleviate that pain, i.e. to work on herself.

So it’s like she is aware that she’s selfish, but she doesn’t want to change. And it’s like “take it or leave it” for you, because she’s not budging. And I am glad you chose to “leave it” – to remove yourself from this impossible situation, which leads nowhere but to more suffering for you.

I think she knows that regarding the friends, I knew it wouldn’t work deep down. Ideally I just wanted contact every few weeks at least to check up on her.

Okay, if you can stop yourself from rushing to her rescue again, attempting the impossible…

I know now I need to completely leave her alone as her issues are not mine anymore.

This is a great attitude! It’s so very true that her issues are not yours and that she would need to help herself first. You can’t save her. I am so glad you’re clear about this!

No nothing good will come out of this situation right now. I am feeling a lot better about everything now but I am still obviously shook up. I am looking forward to what the future has in store most of all.

I am happy for you, Adam. You’re in the right place, even though it’s all been very stressful for you. But as you said, you handled it very well and stood up for yourself. Kudos to you, Adam! You did the right thing.

Hi Adam,

she knows she has to change but is finding it difficult. No she doesn’t want to face the consequences or take responsibility.

So if she knows she has to change, how is she planning to do that? Is she still rejecting therapy?

So you really think she doesn’t actually want to work on herself from what I’ve told you?

Well if she doesn’t want to seek therapy, and she has severe mental health issues, I don’t see how she’s planning to work on herself. So far she has tried to taper down her antidepressants without consulting with a doctor, and that didn’t go very well (you said she was finding it difficult). What else is she doing in terms of her health and well-being?

She didn’t want anything to do with me in the end but we both know it’s for the best.

So when you told her that you want to be her friend and keep talking, but also that she needs to work on things, the final outcome of your conversation was that she doesn’t want to talk to you at all?

As I said earlier I can’t save her but I do really feel rejected as an entire person.

I understand and I am sorry about that. I do feel it has to do with a deeper wound, stemming from your childhood. Because the fact that she rejected you doesn’t mean that you’re worthy of rejection, i.e. unworthy as a person. But I believe that she re-opened that wound – her rejection kind of “confirmed” that you’re unworthy or not important as a person, or something along those lines. That’s why it hurts so bad. If you want, we can talk about it some more, or perhaps talk about it to your therapist. Because I think it’s important.

I’ve definitely come a long way in the last few weeks. I’m going to give myself time but I’d say in another few weeks I’ll be doing a lot better.

Yeah it’s been very intense. You were really attached to her, and it’s hard to let go, specially when she is telling you that she loves you and wants to be safe in your arms… but then tells you she can’t. You naturally want to hold on to the good part, and try to help her overcome whatever stops you from being with you fully. You did give your all, you were considerate and loving and supportive… but it wasn’t enough for her, because for someone with trauma, even the perfect love isn’t enough…

Do give yourself time, but also try to address the feeling of being rejected as a person, because it creates an additional layer of suffering. Makes it harder for you to heal and let go.

I hope she does get herself together because I do care for her a lot and feel like one day maybe she would be able to give it a real crack again.

I hope too that she realizes she has to do something to help herself. And that she can help herself  – that she doesn’t have to be the victim of her condition forever.

I am going to read through this topic again so I can fully process it all and hopefully it speeds up the healing and let’s me see the facts clearly.

Thanks a lot for all your help again Tee. What a messed up situation it was, I’ll send any updates in the future.

You’re very welcome, Adam. I am glad this was helpful to you. Please do take care of yourself. And yes, post whenever you feel the need. Wishing you healing and to get stronger real soon!

Hi Adam,

good to hear she’s agreed to therapy.

It’s been very confusing she said she does want to get back with me but doesn’t want me to be in the middle of her own issues for the next 5-6 months. This is how long she thinks it will take to taper off her medication. I offered my support regardless.

When she says she doesn’t want you to be in the middle of her issues for the next 5-6 months, does it mean she doesn’t want you to push her and try to rush her healing? She did agree to therapy, but you say that if she doesn’t go, you’ll try to push her (If I don’t see her taking action on it though, I will push her a bit to go there.). That’s exactly what she asked you to do before… not to push her. And I guess she is still asking you the same?

So be aware of getting into another cycle of pushing and having expectations on her, because that’s what puts you at risk of becoming codependent:

I told her its for her own good and also my own peace of mind.

If your are attached to her making steps towards healing, and you get upset if she chooses not to, or not as fast as you’d like to, you put yourself in a codependent position. Because your happiness and peace of mind will continue to depend on her actions.

I am going to talk about it tonight with my psychologist. The feeling of being rejected and abandoned. I wouldn’t know where too start with this but I am happy to talk about it. I don’t think there is a specific example from my childhood where I felt really rejected and that’s what caused it. Maybe more just feeling like a didn’t fit in when I was younger and that caused it?

There are plenty of scenarios why a child can feel rejected. If you felt you didn’t fit it, that can be a reason. You also said earlier you didn’t want to disappoint your mother – so perhaps you were trying your best not to disappoint her, but still, somehow you felt not good enough? All those could be reasons for feeling rejected now. So yes, by all means do talk about it with your psychologist.

She has opened up to me and been very heart felt and apologetic. We are currently talking and seeing how things go. … I am giving her my encouragement and support still but I have made it obvious that she needs to do the hard work and face it all herself.

It’s good you’re more vigilant, but as I said, make sure you’re not getting into another cycle with her, only now as her friend and “supporter”, not as her boyfriend. Try to detach yourself a little from her healing process, i.e. try not to make it the central part of your life. Something that determines your happiness and how you feel about yourself. So if you could detach yourself a little, I think it would make things much easier for you.

Hi Adam,

good to hear from you!

The other night I saw her and she wanted me to leave because she was in a bad mood so I did. Once I got home she was saying she needed me and apologized but then was disappointed that I didn’t come back.

she says she does need me but I can’t set the expectation that I’m going to drop everything and be there for her at the click of her fingers.

It seems she is switching back and forth (although perhaps not on purpose, but as a result of her inner turmoil), and then expects you to follow suit. It reminds me of a remote control car: she has the remote control and expect you to get closer as she pushes the button, and then go away when she pushes another button. It’s like she wants to control you, she wants you to move at the push of the button, or the click of her fingers, as you put it. And it’s not good, Adam, it’s a form of control. It’s good you didn’t go back that night when she “apologized”.

It seems she believes it’s enough if she apologizes, and it absolves her of any responsibility. But she is still responsible for those fluctuations in her mood, for the push-and-pull tactic she is applying on you. And she is again not taking responsibility, not wanting to go to therapy and work on herself. Rather, it seems she wants to engage you, once again, in that same endless cycle.

I know it’s hard for you to let go, but I think she is playing with you. I mean, she obviously doesn’t want to work on her healing. I think she just wants to have you on “remote control”. That’s why I think it would be best for your well-being if you stopped contact.

Because I guess you easily get sucked into wanting to help her. You can’t just keep your communication to once per week or once per two weeks, as you intended, but you get sucked into the “vortex”, you go to her place etc.

I’m trying to distance myself and she just sees it as me not wanting her.

This is manipulation on her part. Because first she says she needs you, then you go to her place, then she sends you away, then  she wants you to go back again…  It’s her who doesn’t want you, but wants to play with you.

It’s all very confusing.

She is making things confusing because of the push-and-pull tactics, but it’s a part of the game that she is playing. Even if she’s not doing it purpose, she is still doing it, and shows no tendency of changing. So please try to remove yourself from the game, from trying to help her, because I think her behavior isn’t doing good for you.

Hi Adam,

I hope you’re doing fine. I’ve been watching videos by one my favorite youtube coaches, and I’ve come across a video that almost exactly describes your situation. The title is “When traumatized people can’t love you: what to do“, and it’s on the channel called Crappy Childhood Fairy. She gave some really good advice, and I thought it may be useful to you too.