September 13, 2019 at 9:18 am #312085
I’m sorry if I’m making this conversation somewhat uncomfortable for you too, it’s not what I wanted to accomplish
but yes, what you said about my mother is true. And yes, my socializing history is a big painful mess, and a huge source of suffering for me cause besides a tiny group of friends that I’ve a bit outgrown, I was never truly successful at making friends. As you already know, I have encoutered episodes of bullyism and shame/embarassment triggers that still make me very uncomfortable anytime I have to interact with someone. I have lots of resentment towards some of my peers who treated me with coldness or indifference, and I have a history of feeling jealous and envious of others. I can be quite talkative and I can look spontaneous with others but often I feel like others can’t help but feel coldness or detachment from me or that I trigger people the wrong way, I don’t know
I like your analysis. How do you think I should help myself?September 13, 2019 at 9:27 am #312091
“I like your analysis. How do you think I should help myself?”-
I submitted this analysis only a few moments ago after close to four hours of work this morning. My answer to you therefore is:
Re-read my post to you over the next couple of hours, or days, and write back to me. You may want to read our communication in all of the four threads and take notes before you post again. I will be glad to communicate with you over weeks and even months if this is what you would like. (For me to possibly be helpful to you, it will take that long).
anitaSeptember 14, 2019 at 8:17 am #312237
What you said about proper socializing being about being seen, heard and basically acknowledged is what hit me the most. That’s how I could sum up my negative feelings about my socializing experiences so far that I couldn’t exactly pin point before: not truly feeling like I’m seen, heard, met, most of the time.. almost being like an object. This happened to me a lot, or at least, that’s how I’ve been feeling, at school, in teams, often also in family. I guess that’s why I’m so sensitive to feeling left out or people being indifferent to me triggers me a fucking lot.September 14, 2019 at 9:40 am #312253
I will be away from the computer for an hour or two, will read and reply when I am back.
anitaSeptember 14, 2019 at 11:15 am #312263
“about being seen, heard and basically acknowledged is what hit me the most”- let’s do it here, on your thread: I want to see you and hear you, I want to understand you well. Sure, I can’t see how you look like or hear your voice, but I can read your words, see and hear you through the words you type here.
Every time you post to me, I will reply. If you post and I am at the computer but did not reply to you on the same day, it means that I am not aware that you submitted that recent post (It often happens that a person submits a post but his/ her name does not appear on the list of topics page).
When you post and I reply, next it is your choice to post again that same day, a week from then or not at all. It is up to you. What I will do is reply every time you do choose to post.
If you are willing, then share anything at all, thoughts, feelings, motivations, dreams, hopes, as well as your day to day life, and more. Sometimes I will misunderstand you. When that happens, let me know what it is that I misunderstood and explain it to me. You can express here your anger but do not express aggression at me. Be honest here, with me. I will not punish you for being honest, I will not reject you for being honest- you are safe with me here, in the context of this thread.
Share anything, anytime. At times I will ask you questions so to understand better. How do you feel about being asked questions- what kinds of questions do you not want to be asked?
I will be mostly away from the computer for the rest of the day (may post a short message here or there in a thread or two) and will be back at length in about 18 hours from now.
anitaSeptember 14, 2019 at 11:54 am #312275
I’m ok with any kind of question on me, however I’m afraid that I will not always succeed in being 100% honest because of shame or embarrassment that it would make me feel (let’s hope not). I’m also fearing that i showed up unwillingly aggressive on these threads or that I’m making myself somewhat disliked, I hope it’s not what happenedSeptember 14, 2019 at 1:42 pm #312283
I don’t think anyone is 100% honest all the time. I will give you an example: I am often asked the question: “How are you?” and I answer “fine” even when I don’t feel fine. Or I am asked: “What are you thinking?”- If I choose to answer, I may pick what I thought five minutes ago, not just when asked.
We don’t owe anyone to confess our feelings and thoughts- these are our private business, we own our thoughts and feelings, so they are ours and we choose what to share with whom.
When I say “fine” when asked how I am doing, I mean good enough, or nothing-that-I-want- to discuss. And when asked what I am thinking, the 100% honest question would be: none of your business. But I don’t want to appear rude.
So I am not 100% honest and I don’t expect you to be that.
About shame and embarrassment- I still feel shame about certain things I’ve done in the past and will not share about them, but mostly because I already worked through these things and don’t need input from others regarding those things. Still, what I am saying to you is that I am not a saint, I probably did things as embarrassing and maybe way more embarrassing than you did or experienced.
About not being liked- I already like you, for the first time while reading your very recent post. I just realized it. And the reason is because I understand you a little better now, that you too, like me (and like anyone else) worry about not being liked.
Regarding appearing “unwillingly aggressive”- don’t worry about it. Again I was plenty angry and aggressive for many years. What I meant by the comment to you in my last post is- don’t be aggressive toward me, as in calling me names, saying “f** you” to me and so forth. I think you can’t be aggressive to me these ways and not know that you are, so don’t worry, if you can.
One more thing: any question I ask you is not about getting private information from you and enjoying it in a creepy kind of way, nor do I want details that anyone reading these posts (on this public forum) may enjoy in a creepy way. So share what you want to share in general terms when the details are too embarrassing, I will probably be able to fill the blanks.
anitaSeptember 14, 2019 at 2:11 pm #312285
Thanks for the understanding and kind words. Reading my old threads and most of your comments I’ve noticed surprisingly similar stories between you and me. For example you had an overbearing mother, ocd at a young age and a sense of being an outcast and it’s very similar to what I experienced since I developed a full blown ocd at 16 as well. Do you feel it’s more easy now to build relationships with other? If yes what caused the change? I think what personally pains me in relation with others is that most often I can’t help but feel taken by intense overwhelming uncomfortableness, cringeness, discomfort. Sometimes it’s very very strong, even if it’s small talk or things like that. Like I just don’t have chemistry or way to connect to the other next to me and the overall vibe or what I feel is intense cringenessSeptember 15, 2019 at 6:52 am #312359
You are welcome. Yes, we do have a lot in common (I am glad you read your older threads).
“Do you feel it’s more easy now to build relationships with other? If yes what caused the change?”-
– it is difficult for me to answer this question because for one, I am so much older than you and what I refer to as my healing-process started in 2011 (my first quality psychotherapy) when I was way older than you already. There is a huge difference in social needs and circumstances between a 21 year old young woman and an older woman in her 50s: at this point in my life I am not attending school with people my age, I am not in the work place with co- workers around, I am not a parent making friends with other parents, I am not looking for a partner in life- dating and going out to meet people, and people my age (50s) are way less eager to make friends than teenagers are, or people in their twenties.
Having stated all that, I did make one relationship work and it is a healthy relationship, the one with my husband whom I married later in life, right before I started my first quality psychotherapy. The relationship was in trouble right at the beginning, this is why I attended that therapy I mentioned. It took a whole lot of work and time, and I made it, it happened and is happening.
“What caused the change?”- (the change being from my inability to form and maintain a healthy, close relationship to the ability to do so)- it is impossible to answer this question in one post, but over time it is possible.
I will start somewhere then, I will start with that “intense cringiness” you mentioned in your recent post, and with the following words (italicized by me) in what you shared previously: “I dread spending time alone with her”, “I have this repulsive feeling at the idea she might try to do deep conversations or inquire about me”, “I resent her for making me less carefree”, that her behavior “instilled a certain anxiety or heaviness in me”-
– the cringiness, the dread, the repulsive feeling, the resentment, the anxiety, the heaviness- all these have been your emotional experience with your mother and they were my emotional experience with my mother.
I experienced these same things with everyone throughout the decades of my life, same experience. This is why a close, healthy relationship (with a good and capable man) was not possible for me. I spent most of my life alone and lonely, daydreaming to music, imagining a love story I never had in real life.
I kept cringing, kept dreading.. all those things when with other people and that experience didn’t change when I married later in life, 2011. My change started in March 2011 with my first quality psychotherapy. It continued with ending all contact with my mother: the last time I spent time in her physical presence was May 2011 (we live in different countries), and the last time I talked to her was May 2013. The change aka my healing process continued as I started my massive, daily participation in this website since May 2015.
This healing process results in the gradual change of that reactivated-same-old-same-old-emotional experience with my mother –> a different emotional experience: from dread to relative safety, from anxiety to increasing calm, from heaviness to a bit of lightness and a touch joy from time to time. There is contentment in finally trusting a person, and in finally perceiving myself as a good and trustworthy person.
The fragmented identity of before, being so confused and alarmed by my own behavior, feeling like a stranger to myself, unpredictable and impossible to understand, experiencing life from the outside, as if viewing a movie- that is gone now, completely (what a relief this is!)
I am finally living my own life,<b> my way</b>. (Finally, I have a solid identity).
September 15, 2019 at 8:57 am #312387
- This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by anita.
In my case, those repulsion based feelings about sharing private things with my mother, developed mostly recently. When I was a little girl I actively searched her more and enjoyed way more being with her. I guess that in my case what caused a huge part of this cringeness is that I did a lot of embarrassing things and SAID embarrassing things that overall left a very negative connotation in me when it comes to interpersonal relationshipsSeptember 15, 2019 at 9:07 am #312391
I do want to read more about your case, your story. Your story is far from being the same as mine.
What happened when you shared private things with her- what was the topic of those private things and how did she respond to you?
anitaSeptember 15, 2019 at 3:48 pm #312449
Well as I already mentioned, she is prone to be pessimistic, heavy or theatral on stuff. Even when I was little she was very melodramatic in her gestures of negative feelings and sometimes she gave a heavy vibe to me and she also often uses to pity others, stressing that they look depressed or troubled maybe when it’s not even the case at all. She can’t simply do small talks she clearly would like me to talk about my crushes, be more externally affectionate or even melodramatic myself, talk about heavy stuff. I used to share myself more with her but I no longer like to talk about my mental illness or be reminded about it, I don’t like to feel like some kind of nutcase or internally dark or fucked up and the reason I don’t like to talk with her is because she go to act like a psychologist trying to make deep heavy sessions out of people. Not that it’s necessarily a bad thing but I’m already pretty heavy myself and I’d like lighter, positive interactions about life and thingsSeptember 15, 2019 at 3:49 pm #312451
September 16, 2019 at 7:10 am #312519
- Well as I already mentioned, she is prone to be pessimistic, heavy or theatral on stuff. Even when I was little she was very melodramatic in her gestures of negative feelings and sometimes she gave a heavy vibe to me and she also often uses to pity others, stressing that they look depressed or troubled maybe when it’s not even the case at all. She can’t simply do small talks she clearly would like me to talk about my crushes, be more externally affectionate or even melodramatic myself, talk about heavy stuff. I used to share myself more with her but I no longer like to talk about my mental illness or be reminded about it, I don’t like to feel like some kind of nutcase or internally dark or fucked up and the reason I don’t like to talk with her is because she go to act like a psychologist trying to make deep heavy sessions out of people. Not that it’s necessarily a bad thing but I’m already pretty heavy myself and I’d like lighter, positive interactions about life and things
You wrote earlier to me: “about being seen, heard and basically acknowledged is what hit me the most”- you need to be seen, heard and acknowledged for who you are, not for who you are not. This is what I want to do here, to see you, hear you, acknowledge you for who you are. Not for who you are not.
You wrote earlier and in your most recent post about your mother (who has been the most powerful person in your life by far, this is why I bring her up repeatedly):
“she’s emotional, attuned to Others feelings and on the bad side.. easily moved to tears… emotionally expressive and on the bad side… she is prone to be pessimistic, heavy or theatrical.. in her gestures of negative feelings… pity others, stressing that they look depressed or troubled… she clearly would like me to talk about.. heavy stuff.. I don’t like to feel like some kind of nutcase or internally dark or f*** up… she go act like a psychologist trying to make deep heavy sessions out of people.. I’m already pretty heavy myself and I’d like lighter, positive interactions about life and things”.
My thoughts this morning: what happened basically is that your mother has been those things: pessimistic, negative, depressed, troubled, heavy, internally dark, f*** up. What she did to you is turn a normal, fine little girl into what she is, those things I just typed. Next, she tries to heal you, “like a psychologist”.
So the sick made another person sick and then acts like a psychologist who will make you healthy while all along she is sick and she is the one who made you sick.
I don’t think she intended to do these things but she did it anyway, and still does or wants to. This is why you “dread spending time alone with her”, and “have this repulsive feeling at the idea that she might try to do deep conversations or inquire about me”.
First thing, you have to protect yourself from the mentally ill person in your life who has been playing psychologist to you.
She is not just a person out there who plays psychologist to you- she is the person who caused your psychological problems, or troubles.
Also, in my communication with you, I have to be careful to .. not play psychologist and to focus not only on the negative heavy stuff, but on the positive, light stuff as well. You need positive and light like you need fresh air, away from the stagnant air of negative and heavy.
Let me know what you think about my reply before I continue, will you?
anitaSeptember 16, 2019 at 8:11 am #312535
yes your thesis makes sense to me. I guess the major issue in my relationship with my mother at this point is putting up some boundaries while not ghosting her totally.