March 27, 2019 at 3:27 pm #286661
Forgot to add this. The main reason I’m upset is bc after he broke it off Thursday, he was not at work until the following Tuesday. He put his Skype on as out of the office and he was there working. I checked it hoping he would be out again coast clear for the day. I took that as he thinks I’m obsessed/stalker/he’s trying to avoid me at all costs. I took that very personallyMarch 27, 2019 at 5:39 pm #286665
I read part of the first of three posts and would like to read all attentively first thing tomorrow morning when I am more focused. I will reply to you when I am back, in about twelve hours from now.
anitaMarch 28, 2019 at 8:17 am #286713
First a summary of what you shared:
You’ve been married 12 years, two children, six and seven years old. You’ve been living with your husband as roommates and co parents for the last two years as a separation and divorce are in progress. You are about to move to your own apartment soon. You live in a small town, working in a big company that also employs your soon to be ex husband and a man by the name Mark (I’ll refer to him as M.). M is a team manager in your department, but not your manager. You had a three months relationship with M. (about Jan-March 2019) that ended very recently.
The relationship with M. started with you pursuing him, skyping and texting for a few weeks and then you went to his house, “eat dinner play with his dog watch movies etc. we talked quite a bit about life”. The two of you “made it clear we were not looking for girlfriend/boyfriend type thing”, having agreed that the two of you want to keep your relationship non-public, because of living in the same small town, working for the same company and you still live with your husband in the same house.
About three weeks into the three months relationship he told you that the relationship “really can’t go anywhere my kids are grown and your kids are really young and I’m done raising kids”. Following that he “slowly started to pull away” and you “got lots of anxiety and worry and started second guessing texts and everything else”.
Next, you told him that you “want to casually date and go places”, that is make the relationship public and he said he’ll think about it. Two weeks later he texted you “probably not” regarding dating because, he explained, “we r in 2 difficult places and want different things”, and that “He doesn’t date.. he has not dated anyone in 3 years since his divorce but casually saw 2 women”.
Next you had a breakdown on Valentine weekend, your 40th birthday. A week later you told him that you “want things back to how they were”, that is, going to his home and spending time there, not dating publicly. Next, “he started to just be rude in general with texting”. Two weeks later you sent him a text suggesting “let’s do something Saturday” and he responded “why”, twice. Then ignored your texting and calls for about an hour. Then he texted you “going off on how he was talking to his daughter who was more important than me” and that “more often than not when he saw me texting him his stomach would turn down instead of up”.
Next you tried to explain to him your anxiety and “issues from my marriage”. He then said that “he knew I had issues and would pray for me and that we were just in completely different places in life”. You then didn’t answer and deleted his numbers and texts. You ran into him once after that and had “a disgusted look on my face”, avoiding eye contact with him.
At this point, what bothers you about what happened is, “mostly me coming off desperate… I was desperate for attention and affection… I came off desperate… I have lots of feelings of shame and embarrassment because I feel like I came off a little desperate…. I’m ashamed of my behaviors during our last conversation. I was begging (him) not to end it”.
You noticed very recently that he “put his Skype on as out of the office and he was there working.. I took that as he thinks I’m obsessed/stalker/he’s trying to avoid me at all costs”.
My input at this point: because dating between co workers in this big company is not against company policy, and because he is not your personal manager at work, and because he did not make any promises to you, I am not detecting anything wrong that he has done to you that you can call him on.
The fact that “he’s a loner, brags a lot.. very alpha male. Very confident.. Not attached to anything”, these are things you learned about him and reasons why you don’t like him, but these are not offenses that he committed against you.
After the short relationship you started thinking that “he might have took advantage of me and just got what he wanted… he is not a good person.. saw me and my issues from a mile away and I was an easy target”- these are after thoughts. I don’t see him taking advantage of you, not any more than you took advantage of him, that is, the two of you enjoyed each other’s company for a short period of time.
The two of you agreed right at the beginning to keep your relationship non public. You then wanted it public and he rejected your offer to make it public, to go places. You then texted him repeatedly, expressing to him how upset you were that he didn’t answer you quickly enough and he got scared of you- telling you that “his stomach would turn down instead of up” when he saw you texting him, and if your interpretation is correct, he most recently “put his Skype on.. he thinks I’m obsessed/ stalker/ he’s trying to avoid me at all costs”.
Putting my thoughts together now: what is clear to me is that a romantic relationship between you and M. is highly unlikely to resume in any form. You’d rather “eat dirt” and he may prefer the same. He doesn’t want to, that’s for sure. Following the pleasure he felt with you during the relationship, spending time with you at his home, he experienced a significant amount of distress and still does, and like you, he probably regrets starting anything with you.
Basically, all you can do at this point is scare him further and that wouldn’t be right. You are angry with him but if you scare him further he may .. let’s say be so anxious that he will drive inattentively on the highway and hurt someone who didn’t do any wrong to you!
We have to think of the consequences of our actions and figure who those actions can hurt.
I recommend that you do leave a note at his desk, a typed note, not texting or calling him (and not visiting his home ever again!)- make that note short and write there something like the following:
– M., I am interested in no contact with you at work and outside of work. I will not call you or text you or initiate any contact with you in any way, shape or form. When we happen to walk by each other, I will ignore you and I expect you to ignore me. I am placing our short relationship in the past and leaving it there for good.
This is all.
March 28, 2019 at 9:28 am #286761
- This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
I don’t think I’m going to leave a note. After I read back what I wrote my impression was basically I got upset bc I didn’t get what I wanted. Maybe that’s true. At the time I didn’t know what I wanted and just felt constant anxiety. One thing that did not come across in my forum was that he could be disrespectful/indifferent to me and my feelings. I told him once I wanted him to be there for me at times when I needed advice or help and he told me to stop being dramatic. His wording was very harsh. I don’t like who i was with him. I was desperate and confused and worried and unstable. I have developed this issue with everyone leaving me lately. It’s hard to drop my kids off anywhere,I worry about my parents health, I worry friends are mad at me and might not talk to me anymore for some crazy reason. I felt like I could not let him go and he was going to have to end it no matter how rude he acted. I’m still embarrassed and ashamed by my behaviors. I worry when he sees me he wants to run the other way. Thank you for your honest insights.
LindseyMarch 28, 2019 at 9:41 am #286765
You are welcome. He may very well be a rude person, a person who is dishonest and so forth. I don’t know him. But this is why it is better to know a man before getting sexually involved, to know him gradually over time, that way you don’t get in too deep with a man you.. later figure you don’t like at all.
You wrote: “I worry when he sees me he wants to run the other way”- what is it that bothers you about him running the other way, what is the danger for you in him running the other way?
anitaMarch 28, 2019 at 9:57 am #286769
My worry is I don’t want anyone to think I’m crazy or desperate or unstable. I absolutely agree with you about getting to know someone before getting physical. Boy do I ever. I feel like he looked in a secret cabinet of mine no one really sees and then he slammed it shut and ran away. I gave him access to that cabinet and now I feel vulernable and exposed.
LindseyMarch 28, 2019 at 10:22 am #286771
This is what is in the core of your distress: “I don’t want anyone to think I’m crazy or desperate or unstable”, you don’t want him to think that.
You wrote that you gave him access to you, to a secret cabinet of yours, being vulnerable and exposed and “he looked in a secret cabinet of mine no one really sees and then he slammed it shut and ran away”-
– he spent time with you but he didn’t get to know you. He knows some things about you, but he doesn’t know you. He didn’t reject you. He rejected things about you.
When we meet a person, we see how they look, we hear their voice, feel their hug, how warm it feels, but do we know the person- not if we don’t bother to.
I think you are quite lovable myself. I felt a liking to you early on in our communication. There is something very honest about you, straightforward, and yes, vulnerable. Not everyone will see this about you, not everyone bothers to see.
It does hurt when a man gets access to your naked body, yet doesn’t see you, really see you, know what I mean?
March 28, 2019 at 10:27 am #286775
- This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
People wake up! When someone hurts you and they have the decency to leave you alone, then let it go. When a dog bites you, the first time it’s the dogs fault. The second time it is all you if you approach that same dog. People pull yourselves together. People that hurt you are not going to stay around to watch you moan about it. The thrill was inflecting the pain not watching you suffer, they have no interest in viewing the sadness in your eyes and you pointing out their faults. Pick people with real empathy for others and people that make you feel good about yourself and always looking out for your better good. I someone doesn’t see the real you then they need to be REAL gone.March 28, 2019 at 10:32 am #286781
Yes! When he had access I felt a disconnect and a disappointment. Like I was looking for something and didn’t find it in his room.
I like talking with you and feel like I’m talking with an aunt who is always level headed and says the right things. Even if the right things are not want you want to hear it still makes you feel better.
lindseyMarch 28, 2019 at 11:22 am #286789
It made me smile, reading your second paragraph and I am still smiling, I like it. And I like talking with you too!
“When he had access I felt a disconnect and a disappointment. Like I was looking for something and didnt find it in his room”-
I think you were looking to see yourself in positive light, to see you as the likeable, lovable woman that you are. It is similar to us looking in the mirror and wanting to see a beautiful image of ourselves. People are our mirrors. Problem is often people don’t see us as we are and so they provide us with distorted images of ourselves. Or maybe worse, we see nothing in the mirror.
Which brings me back to the same point, better know a man, see that he sees you first, and that what he sees is a wonderful thing, a valuable thing before letting him see the naked body.
It is not only men who don’t see us. It often starts with our parents not seeing us, not seeing us as someone of value, or not caring to see/ hear what we think or feel.
anitaMarch 28, 2019 at 1:30 pm #286799
What’s funny is his face is blurry when I try to remember him physically. I felt nothing in his room and kept wanting to feel something, anything really. Prior to our separation, there was about 2 years of coercion sex. It would buy me at least 3-4 days of him not being verbally crazy and a calm house. But I would cry during and after I don’t think he knew.
There are so many things I’m realizing that are just common sense. What I don’t think people realize especially when they say things like “wake up” is that abuse puts you in a fog. Normal decision bring anxiety and confusion. What I used to be able to do now seems like running a mind marathon. I would of allowed M. To do whatever to me because a part of me was not even there and still fills like I’ve been carved down the middle.
My father was always working and I was really just an extension of my mother kind of like a doll. She had me at 19 and we grew up together. She really good at mothering until her kids became teenagers.
LindseyMarch 28, 2019 at 5:40 pm #286827
In your first paragraph you were writing about your husband, the “2 years of coercion sex”?
“his face is blurry”- M’s face?
There is so much in your last recent post and I want to read it more attentively. Problem is I am not focused enough and will be away from the computer shortly and back in about 36 hours from now (a longer time away than usual).
Looking forward to communicate with you further about what you wrote most recently when I am back. Please add anything you’d like to add so I can read it when I am back (Saturday, 3/30 morning).
March 28, 2019 at 8:10 pm #286841
- This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
sorry sometimes my writing is all over the place like my thoughts.
Regarding M- I can’t recall what his face looks like, it’s blurry. Almost like my brain doesn’t want to remember or can’t.
Regarding the ex- there was about 2 years of the coercion sex and then nothing for about 1 1/2 years when we separated. It was awful and that area I always found very lacking. No childhood trauma.
Ironically I would say I used looks/sex to get M.’s interest. I feel like I need a service dog to assist Me in making any type of decision about a man. I was in a fog for about a year until 3 weeks ago. I literally could not make a healthy decision for myself. I felt in limbo.
LindseyMarch 29, 2019 at 6:54 am #286891
I have a little time before leaving for the day. You wrote: “My father was always working and I was really just an extension of my mother kind of like a doll… No childhood trauma”- people think of trauma as something involving broken bones and blood, but if a child is being treated like an object (a doll), depending on what personally you mean by it, it can be emotionally very damaging, although that damage cannot be detected by X-Rays and is not life threatening via bleeding.
“his face is blurry when I try to remember him physically”- I experienced such, it is the brain under great distress, it gets foggy, forgets things.
“Regarding the ex- there was about 2 years of the coercion sex and then nothing for about 1 1/2 years when we separated”- are you talking about the man you are still living with, your husband? If so, no wonder you are so very distressed! When you do move to your own apartment (how soon?) your distress should lessen a great deal, once you feel safer in your own place.
“I was in a fog for about a year until 3 weeks ago”- a distressed brain is a foggy brain. Mine has been foggy for decades!
“I literally could not make a healthy decision for myself. I felt in limbo”- I wasn’t able to make healthy decisions for myself either, during all the years that I was significantly distressed. My brain was foggy, couldn’t remember, hold thoughts long enough so to evaluate people and situations. My life was indeed in limbo.
“I feel like I need a service dog to assist Me in making any type of decision about a man”- after you move out (how soon…?) and after you calm down, your distress much lessened, the fog will dissipate and you will be able to make a good use of your own brain so to make better and better decisions for yourself!
* I will soon be away from the computer for the day and be back here in about 24 hours from now.
anitaMarch 29, 2019 at 2:43 pm #286937
I don’t think I was damaged really by my other until my teen years, especially when I went to college. She is really good at the baby/child stage as a mom. When I and my siblings were older, she seemed less patient and wanted us to figure it out on our own and stop relying on her too much. Which is a normal thing for a parent but she did not try to make it happen gradually, it was like overnight. For example when I went to college, she pretty much said you are on your own now and they moved into a new house without a room for me. She emotionally cut herself off from me overnight. I was very lost for a long time. We have a good relationship now.
My ex is my ex-husband. Technically not until divorce filing but I don’t want to refer to him as husband. I start moving on Monday, April 1st. I’ll be completely moved in by next Saturday the 9th. I’ll probably start staying over before the 9th.
I feel like the fog is lifting and I am getting over the entire situation with M. a bit everyday. Really it was supposed to be something casual. I was not in a position to enter into that type of situation really at all-it’s not my personality.