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Seeking advice on mending ex-gf FB friendship

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  • #83499
    sanguine
    Participant

    Hello, and thank you in advance for clicking on this topic, and for any advice you may have. The names and places in this tale have been changed, but all of the pertinent information is the same. Also, my apologies for it being very long and complicated. Here goes:

    I am a happily married, 45-year-old man living outside Sacramento. My wife Ann and I have been married for 14 years, and we have two beautiful boys in grade school.

    My problem, or conundrum, is with my ex-girlfriend from college, Stephanie. We met in 1991, during my senior year at college in Arizona. We had a great relationship, and at the time I was thinking “she’s the one.” But she was a year behind me at college, and after I graduated my Dad got a job in San Francisco. I was still living at home at the time and didn’t have a job that paid enough money for me to get out on my own. So I moved with my family from Arizona to SF at the end of the summer of ’92, and Stephanie and I started a long-distance relationship.

    The rest of ’92 and the first few months of ’93 were miserable to say the least. I landed a pretty good job, but I really missed Stef. We would talk for hours on the phone, and she came to visit me for Spring Break. I was in heaven. My new employer goofed during the interview process, and I was able to take a week vacation to go to Arizona to visit her. But I also spent the time pounding the pavement looking for a job so I could move back. By the end of the week, an old fraternity buddy of mine and I had signed a lease for an apartment, and I landed a job working in a drug store. Not the most glamorous job for a college graduate, but I was in love and I was so happy that I would be close to Stef.

    Things didn’t turn out the way I planned. I actually had to move into Stef’s house for about a month because the apartment wasn’t ready. Then, about two months after I got settled into my new place, Stef dropped a bomb on me: She broke down and cried and said she didn’t love my anymore. At the time, I was supportive and told her everything would be OK. But after she left my place that day — August 5, 1993 — it started to sink in over what a fool I was. I was completely destroyed … devastated.

    I wallowed in my misery for months. And I was alone, too, because my roommate spent most of his time at his new girlfriend’s place. One day, a high school student working at the drug store asked me why I was working there, since I was a college graduate. I also missed out on a family trip to Europe. The only good thing about those days was that I had a couple college buddies nearby, and we went out to the bars to have fun. I never hooked up though, and I checked my answering machine (ha! remember those?) several times a day, hoping Stef would call. She never did.

    Finally, I decided to take control of things and started looking for a better job back in California. I found one, and moved to Sacramento. I didn’t tell Stef I was leaving — in hindsight, I think I did this because I didn’t want her to try to stop me. It was only months after I was back in CA that I mustered up the nerve to call her. She was surprised that I left, but didn’t say much else about it. We had a nice conversation (my heart was in my throat) for several minutes, and then it was over.

    Two years later, I landed an awesome job in San Jose. It was 1995, and I was traveling all over the country. I still thought of Stef, and called her from the road a couple of times. We had nice conversations, but they didn’t turn into anything.

    That old expression that you will “meet somebody when you least expect it” is true; I met Ann while I was on the road in Kansas in 1999. We also did the long-distance relationship thing, but this time it really was meant to be. We fell in love and got married in 2001. We started our family a few years later. Total bliss.

    Enter the internet, well Facebook. One day, back in either 2011 or 2012, I found Stef on Facebook and sent her a friend request. She accepted and — with Ann’s approval, of course — we started chatting with each other. Our chats were, for the most part (get back to that later), pretty pedestrian and friendly. I learned that a few years after we broke up, she was diagnosed with a chronic illness that, while it won’t kill her, will keep her from living a “normal” life. I also learned that she got married and moved to Texas, and had just moved back home to Arizona and was going through a divorce. It sounded like she married a real asshole.

    Our chats were, in a word, therapeutic. They showed me that despite how devastated I was 20 years earlier, in hindsight Stef and I were really not meant to be together. We have very different interests. And Stef never wanted to have kids. My sons are beautiful, and I can’t imagine what life would be like without them. One night, Stef even apologized to me — profusely — for how “cruel” she was to me. I told her everything was fine, that life had turned out for the best. And it really was.

    If you have stayed with me this far, you’re probably wondering “OK, so what the hell is the problem?” I’m getting there.

    Stef and I would chat every so often (maybe once a week) until just after New Years 2014. I admit, sometimes our chats were a little flirtatious. We talked briefly about some of the outrageous, kinky things she liked to do 20 years earlier. One day she was in a particularly depressed mood and said she didn’t think she would ever meet a nice guy. I told her to get out and keep trying to meet guys — that she had a lot to offer. I reminded her that she was once a member of a sorority with about 150 girls, and I picked her. I also told her that even though we didn’t work out, I knew that I was looking for someone like her and that helped me find Ann. That seemed to brighten her mood. Maybe it was flirting, but I just wanted to lift her spirits.

    On New Years Day that year, I wished her a Happy New Year. She reciprocated, and said “maybe this could be the year that we see each other in person after all of these years.” I was surprised, but excited. I said I would be OK with doing that. She asked if I could come to Arizona, and I told her I would try. But then about 30 minutes later or so, I messaged her back and said I would probably have a difficult time getting to Arizona, and that if we were to meet she should come to Sacramento. She agreed.

    At the time, I was upstairs chatting with Stef on my iPhone. I did not know that at the very same time, my iPad was downstairs in my son’s room, with me still logged in on Facebook. Ann was laying in bed with my son, and watched silently in the dark as the messages between Stef and I went by.

    The next morning, after Ann had left for work and I was getting my son ready for school, I saw the iPad. I looked at it, and quickly deduced that Ann had seen everything. I asked my son if his Mommy was looking at the iPad last night and he said yes.

    Even though the idea of having an affair with Stef was the absolute last thing from my mind, I knew I was in trouble. The chat messages did not look good. I was terrified. So I decided to “come clean” and took several actions that, at the time, seemed necessary to save my marriage and remove and sense of impropriety: (1) I sent Stef a message saying that it would be inappropriate for us to meet, (2) I de-friended her and, I would find out later, I blocked her from contacting me, and (3) I also de-friended a couple of other ex-girlfriends on Facebook, none of whom I chatted with as much.

    When Ann came home that night, I told her that I knew about the chats with Stef and apologized profusely. I told her about what I had done to help make amends, but she told me that none of it was necessary.

    After a few days had passed, I thought about what I had done and felt that I had overreacted. I tried calling Stef at her office, but every time I called I got someone else. Each time, I declined to leave a message. Finally, after about a month of this, one of her co-workers asked if this was (my name), and I said yes. The co-worker asked if there was a phone number Stef could reach me at, and I said I would prefer to do email. Later that day, Stef gave me her cell phone number and I called her. I told her about Ann seeing the text messages, and explained that that was why I cut off our online friendship so abruptly. She said she understood, we said goodbye, and that was it.

    A year passed. There was no communication, except for an email I sent Stef the day before her birthday, wishing her a happy one, and on New Years 2015. She did not reply.

    Finally, at the end of February I decided to attempt to re-establish our friendship on Facebook. I sent Stef an email, a few paragraphs long, apologizing for what happened. I told her I overreacted, promised not to be flirty in the future, told her I cared about her as a friend and that her friendship meant a lot to me. But, I made a mistake: I also told her that if she was interested in re-establishing ties, I would ask Ann first. If Ann said she didn’t have a problem with it, then we could move forward.

    Stef went ballistic. Some parts of her angry chats back include “how dare you, Ann’s trust is misplaced, knowing that you’re going behind her back infuriates me, you disgust me, don’t ever contact me again.” I was stunned. So, thinking that full disclosure at this point was the way to go, I told Ann everything — that I tried to re-establish ties with Stef, the email I sent her, and the angry chat messages Stef sent back. Ann looked everything over, and said she was “surprised” at how angry Stef was. She thought it was strange, but she also indicated that she (Ann) really had no problem with it. I tried chatting again with Stef about it, told her that Ann had no problem, but there was just silence.

    I saw a chat message between Ann and one of her friends. She told her friend all about what happened. The friend thought Stef’s reaction was odd, too. My wife said “he isn’t one to let things go.” She’s right. I hate that this misunderstanding is out there. I really just want to “clear my name” and get our friendship back on track.

    It’s funny, because when I did chat with Stef, she was sad that she wouldn’t meet a guy. I encouraged her to go out and find one. And it looks like she took my advice; I think she has a boyfriend now, about 10 years her senior (she’s 45) with grown kids. I think that’s great, he seems nice.

    Things are bad, but they could be worse. Stef and I have 8 mutual friends on Facebook, and Stef hasn’t blocked me. She is also still a fan of a page I run on Facebook. But I’m worried that another attempt to reconnect will push her farther away.

    So … what should I do? I really just want to get things back to the way they were before this misunderstanding happened. I miss Stef’s friendship. I don’t have any interest in anything more than that. I want to clear my name and reputation. And if you’ve read this far, I want to buy you a beer. =)

    #83510
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear sanguine:

    “I am a happily married 45 year old…Total bliss” is how you describe your 14 year marriage to Ann. I don’t believe you.

    anita

    #83511
    Anonymous
    Guest

    More: You wrote: “the idea of having an affair with Stef was the absolute last thing from my mind”- I don’t believe that either.

    Regarding ” (Ann) indicated that she (Ann) really had no problem with it”-

    really???

    anita

    #83526
    sanguine
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thank you for reading this and responding, but I have to be honest — your replies haven’t been very helpful so far.

    Ann and I are very happy. I’m not sure why you would think otherwise, but trust me, we are. And yes, Ann and I have spoken about this a few times. She has told me that she doesn’t understand why I want to be friends with Stef — and has made it plain that she doesn’t like her — but she says she trusts me and that it’s fine. And if she was really not cool with it, I wouldn’t be on here chatting with you now.

    Ask yourself: Why would I spend the time to write this long diatribe if my ultimate goal was to have an affair? I can understand why you would think that’s my motivation, since I have a history with Stef. But that’s not my plan. And honestly, there are much easier ways to have an affair.

    Why would I go through the trouble of trying to get the online friendship with Stef back, with Ann’s knowledge, if the ultimate goal was an affair? Sounds pretty dumb, especially since I’ve already learned the hard way that Ann could be reading anything I write. Why would I risk losing everything?

    No. This is simple: I don’t want to leave things the way they are. I’m trying to resolve a misunderstanding, nothing more.

    #83559
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear sanguine:

    In your original post you wrote: “The next morning, after Ann had left for work…I saw the iPad..and quickly deduced that Ann had seen everything…I knew I was in trouble. The chat messages did not look good. I was terrified. So I decided to “come clean” and took several actions that, at the time, seemed necessary to save my marriage and remove and sense of impropriety…”

    So, what you are telling me (and anyone who reads) is that your projection of a possible impropriety into Ann’s thinking was a misunderstanding you had with yourself since she did not view your IPad correspondence you had with Stef as imporper. So your whole thread is about clearing a misunderstanding that you are having with yourself?

    And/ or is your thread about mending the relationship with Stef who misunderstood you when she said (this is your quote): ““how dare you, Ann’s trust is misplaced, knowing that you’re going behind her back infuriates me, you disgust me, don’t ever contact me again.”

    Okay, sanguine, I will try to be helpful to you:

    Please do not try to mend anything at all with Stef. Respect her request, passionately stated by her, to not contact her. Leave Stef alone as well as all past girlfriends. You are married now. And you have two children who need you very much.

    Please minimize and better yet, end your Facebook thing and spend time with Ann and with your children instead. Your children need you with them, playing with toys and holding them and reading them stories.

    anita

    #83594
    Inky
    Participant

    Hi sanguine,

    1. Something got lost in translation for Steph to suddenly get so angry with you. If it were me I would think that I’m being used for some cheap thrill if I had that kind of reaction.

    2. Your wife is playing it cool. As in “I’m the cool wife”. She is PRETENDING to be “OK” with it and not come across as being in any way threatened by “her”.

    3. The sudden unfriending/blocking DOES give her the impression in Steph’s mind that you WERE trying to hide her!

    4. You cannot “clear your name” now. The only thing is to let time, time, and more time pass. Maybe, just maybe, one day she MIGHT feel like she was overreacting.

    5. Why would you be so attached to someone who dumped you decades ago? And on FB I don’t chat, even with my real life friends. It’s OK to Message or post on their Wall once in a very blue moon, but we 40 something year olds have better things to do, don’t you agree??

    #83595
    Gill
    Participant

    Hi Sanguine,

    Having read your post the first thing that sprung to mind is rejection. I think the rejection you felt when Steph called things off all those years ago has contributed to your erratic behaviour. Honestly as a married woman I do not and cannot understand your behaviour. To me you have failed to get over the heart ache from losing Steph and while you firmly say you are not interested in an affair you are being driven by some compulsion. You are skating on very thin ice and in my opinion disrespecting your wife. Your trying to play your emotions down but I can practially hear you screaming out in frustration.
    If I was you I would put Steph back where she belongs and that is in the past. You need to focus on the present, your wife and kids. Your wife seems like a really kind person give her the respects she deserves. Move on, focus on your family and the happiness they bring you and let go of Steph.

    Letting go is never easy but it’s something that needs to be done to move forward.

    #83606
    Lori
    Participant

    Hi Sanguine,

    I don’t mean any disrespect, but to be honest, about midway through your post I thought maybe i was reading a fictional story meant as a joke. Am I wrong? I cannot reconcile how an obviously intelligent and educated 45 year old man (and talented writer!) who is happily married with 2 beautiful kids would feel the way you do at the loss of an ex-girlfriend’s friendship. And I’m having some trouble relating to the 3 characters in your story:

    1) You: You lost me at “..we talked about the kinky things she liked to do 20 years ago”.

    2) Ann: She reads your flirtatious chats and sees no red flags.

    3)Stef: Flirts online with a married ex and let’s him know she’s interested in meeting up with him.

    I hope you decide not to reconnect with your ex-girlfriend and instead let her get on with her life. I hope you can get on with your life (without your ex) too.

    #83610
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Sanguine:

    Assuming your posts on this thread are not a joke but are a true account to the best of your knowledge, then I need to re-do my original response to your post. As I read it yesterday I became frustrated and angry at what I perceived clearly as your dishonesty with yourself and hence with the rest of the people in your life. As I got angry I got stupid (There is a saying: “As your anger goes up, your IQ goes down.) and responded to you with anger. The reason it is stupid of me (again, assuming this is a true post the best you know)- is that I am least able to reach you with any valid message once I express anger at you. Plus, when I did write to you “dear sanguine” I cringed at my “dear”- so there I was dishonest myself. Here is my redo, and I am assuming a non angry state of mind:

    Dear Sanguine:

    As I read your post I noticed at one point on a lack of consistency in your story, a self delusion/ lack of honesty. I hope you will examine my point. You wrote: “The next morning, after Ann had left for work…I saw the iPad..and quickly deduced that Ann had seen everything…I knew I was in trouble. The chat messages did not look good. I was terrified. So I decided to “come clean” and took several actions that, at the time, seemed necessary to save my marriage and remove and sense of impropriety…”

    This indicates to me that you believed your exchange with Stef was a betrayal of Ann. Once Ann told you that she was okay with it, you ignored your own reaction as if because Ann said it was okay- then it must have been okay. But your own reaction as indicated in my quote, indicates that you, yourself, believed your exchange with Stef was a betrayal of Ann or at least inappropriate or improper to use your word.

    Then you wrote that Stef wrote to you: “how dare you, Ann’s trust is misplaced, knowing that you’re going behind her back infuriates me, you disgust me, don’t ever contact me again.” In Stef’s writing to you she is giving you feedback on the exchagne with her. SHe is telling you right there that you went behind Anns’; back, that is betrayed Ann, that is that you were inappropriate with Stef.

    So you got it from two sources: your own self, your own reaction, then Stef and now you are getting it from me. I hope you will examine your motives in your fb interactions with Stef. I hope you re-examine your relationship with Ann, improve your communication with Ann so that you will find out what she truly feels about this (I hope she will tell you) and what you can do to improve your awareness of yourself, your relationship with Ann, and all that needs your awareness and attention.

    Best wishes to you, to your children (!) and to your wife:

    anita

    #83612
    sanguine
    Participant

    Wow! I am truly amazed at the responses this post has received! Before I write anything else, I want to thank Anita, Gill, Inky and Lori for taking the time to not only read this very long post (Damn, is there a way to edit this? Make it shorter? Argh!) and for your very thoughtful comments. I also appreciate your well wishes. (And Lori’s compliment. I actually am a writer!)

    So let me offer some clarifications:


    @Lori
    : Stef and I chatted maybe once a week, or every other week, and not for very long. I hope no one here thinks that I’ve been spending hours and hours and hours chatting with this woman. Not at all. Most of our chats were about things like books, politics, life, etc. But one night a long time ago we briefly — and I mean for maybe two minutes — talked about two kinky things she did when we were together. That’s all. Ann never saw it. And when Stef said “maybe this could be the year we meet,” she didn’t mean it in a flirty way. It was very matter of fact, as was my response. In hindsight, I should have said that Ann and I could take her out to dinner. (Stef sent Ann a friend request shortly after we started ties. Ann thought it was odd, but accepted it, and they did chat a few times about books and movies. They are no longer friends, I don’t know when or how that ended).

    We’re starting to get into Anita’s last reply a little bit too, so …


    @Lori
    /Anita: When I chose the words I wrote to Stef, I knew what I meant. When I looked at the iPad in the morning, I saw the same words there. No problem. But then I looked at it again and noticed that I had made no mention of Ann joining us. At that point I thought Ann could probably interpret that three ways — that Stef and I were planning to meet (1) with Ann, for dinner or something, (2) without Ann, but it wouldn’t be a secret, or (3) a secret meeting and who knows what would happen from there.

    In hindsight, I know that I could have — and should have — handled that much better. I overreacted. Stef and I weren’t planning anything sinister. I wasn’t trying to hide anything (but my actions may have looked like I was!). It’s frustrating.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by sanguine.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by sanguine.
    • This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by sanguine.
    #83638
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear sanguine:

    You missed my point. At your original post you wrote that your relationship with your wife is bliss. But in this last post above you wrote that you don’t know why she is no longer fb friends with your ex gf and you also wrote three options of whaty your wife may have been thinking about your correspondence with your ex gf. This means to me that you and your wife are not communicating very well.

    Isn’t good communication part of bliss?

    I think that the important point is not whether you over-reacted by cutting off fb ties to your ex gf, but that you are GUESSING what your wife feels about your ex gf and your communication with the ex gf.

    anita

    #83640
    Lori
    Participant

    Hi Sanguine,

    Thanks for your clarifications. I understand your frustration. You miss your ex-girlfriend’s friendship and want things back to where they were before the misunderstanding. I’ve already shared with you my feelings about that. So instead of trying to convince you that the falling out with your ex may actually be a blessing in disguise, I’ll agree with Inky: Let some time pass. There’s a good chance your ex misses the friendship too.

    Hope it all works out!

    #83643
    Lori
    Participant

    …one question for you, sanguine:

    Is the thing that bothers you most about your situation the idea that someone who used to think good thoughts about you may not anymore all because of a misunderstanding? If so, I totally get that.

    #83644
    TriangleSun
    Participant

    It’s really amazing to me how someone who has so much that many many others wish they had, attempts to ruin it all by bringing in a person from the past who clearly shouldn’t be in their present or future. Man, you have a loving wife and beautiful kids. Stop before you lose both. Do you honestly think your wife doesn’t see this as a problem? I’m 15 years younger than you and I learned enough to know that this is total BS that women say. It bothers her but she trusts you. Don’t lose this trust. You can “clear your name” by not playing tricks with an ex and your family, not by trying to have a friendship with someone who isn’t in your life for a good reason. If she had an ounce of respect for you she’d know to stay the hell away because you are married. But she clearly doesn’t. Seriously man, there are many men such as myself who wish they had what you have. Don’t be a… you know what… and blow it. Forget this woman.

    #83833
    sanguine
    Participant

    Hey everyone! Thanks again for all of your advice. I do sincerely appreciate it.

    There has been a new development. Maybe this is an opportunity … or maybe not. You tell me.

    In my original post, I mentioned that Stef has a chronic illness that will keep her from living a “normal life.” In the interest of full disclosure, she has Crohn’s disease. I had never heard of it before two years ago, but from the descriptions I’ve read, it sounds devastating. Not a happy diagnosis by any means.

    On Monday, a mutual friend on Facebook posted a link that another woman (not my friend, but is Stef’s, and I know her) had posted. This other woman, Cindy, is preparing to run a marathon next month to raise money for Crohn’s research, and dedicated the run to Stef. She is asking for donations, and is about $300 short of her goal.

    Cindy also said Stef is sick and may have to quit her job.

    The website for donations includes a scrolling list thanking those who donated. About four or five people donated $100, and about six or seven donated $50. Many others donated less than that. I’m confident that Stef would see any donation Ann and I made. And the donation would absolutely be from “Ann and Sanguine Smith.”

    Best case scenario: this would be a good opportunity to make a friendly gesture toward Stef, and show that I have Ann’s blessing for doing so. Worst case scenario: I guess it’s possible I could get an angry email from Stef telling me to leave her alone, and would take offense at the whole idea. Might also tick off Ann, but she is a very generous person (she bought a homeless man lunch at McDonald’s the other day). Honestly, if we made like a $20 donation and I never heard anything from Stef I would be OK with that — at least she would know that Ann and I are moved by her suffering and want to help find a cure.

    Regardless of what happens, any donation would be well spent toward trying to find a cure for Crohn’s. Like I said, it sounds horrible. That’s really the most important part.

    I have until early October. What should I do? I haven’t mentioned any of this to Ann yet.


    @Lori
    : Yes, you totally get it.

    @Anita
    : You make a good point. Another clarification: Ann told me once that she “doesn’t have a problem” with Stef, but she also added that she “doesn’t trust her.” She said she trusts me, but not her. I guess that means Ann thinks Stef would secretly love to have an affair with me. I seriously doubt that was ever considered by anyone, but if Ann really does think that then I do have a problem.

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