April 11, 2019 at 3:49 pm #288789
you know Anita, I don’t know if my dad is good or bad. sometimes I think he is good, but sometimes he is bad because he has a temper problem, and because he was bad to my mom.
you know, sometimes when my mom and dad get into a fight, my mom cries so much that she will run away with my sister and i. she says how she doesn’t have a job or money but she will find a way. that god will protect her and her daughters. and that any other woman would have gotten a divorce a long time ago. she says shes so strong that she lasted with a man like him, because he is so bad, and that he should be lucky that she stuck around. she says that she is the most unlucky woman because she has a husband like him. that all he has is a good job, but no personality. that someone like him wouldnt even get married if it wasnt for arranged marriage.. she tells my sister and I how “women need some things from a man” and that he can’t even do that. i know that is grown up talk – but I know that is sad, and that my dad is not that good, and that my mom deserves better.
sometimes she starts talking about how if we had to, we could go to her brothers or someones house, and leave my dad.
but then everyone starts crying and is sad.April 11, 2019 at 3:59 pm #288791
Dear Cali Chica:
I do want my morning fresh brain for your recent posts, I am looking forward to read them with the attention they deserve, in about 9 am your time Friday morning. Feel free to add as many posts as you want to.
anitaApril 11, 2019 at 4:54 pm #288799
Thank you. you know, when you first brought up this exercise, I thought about how I don’t have a good memory of chilldhood. But then I realize, the idea of whether I was exactly 5, or 7, or whatever age is not as important, as knowing it was when I was a child. Today, when I answered your last question, somehow after I submitted, it opened up a flow of more thoughts, and then again after submitting. it felt good to explore this, and explain it to you – writing from that first perspective as a child, and not as the past. I think this is quite important..
I re-read your first post to me today, and the key point being–no matter what I do, where I go, it is the others that are the lucky ones. how lucky for them to be happy. if only I could be like them, but alas I can not.
now whether these people are doing something I have interest in (perhaps finding a good guy to marry) or no interest in (moving to Florida) – its all in the same. this is interesting, it truly does not matter what it is the other person is doing/granted/achieving – it is that they are CONTENT. so as a result I envy their contentment. It is a wanting of that satisfaction and contentment (where it comes from is not the focus, and easily glanced over).
“oh look at her, how luckky she is to find a great guy who treats her so good.” — devils advocate would say, hmm but CC would you even like a guy like that? doesn’t matter – llook how happy SHE is – if only I could be happy like that.
“Look at that job they got, oh how smart they are to move away and go to a place good for doctors.” —well do you even want to move to Florida?
point of the matter is, they are doing this, and they are content they are happy. they are CAPABLE OF BEING HAPPY. and that is remarkable, enviable, and oh so sooo unattainable. oh how! how to be happy like this!! maybe, oh if only maybe, I had what they have? will that do it? but wait I got that- still not happy…hmm–well then maybe I need more!!? maybe something else now? yes probably, well keep on digging.April 12, 2019 at 7:49 am #288849
Dear Cali Chica:
I’ve been working for a couple of hours on your posts since 4/8 and it is taking me a long time, so I figure I will let you know now, then attend other threads so to take a break from my present focus and then be back and post to you later.
anitaApril 12, 2019 at 10:37 am #288859
Thank you very muchApril 12, 2019 at 10:39 am #288861
Dear Cali Chica:
What I learned about your mother this morning: she claimed that she was happy when with company, not being alone, but it isn’t true:
-she was unhappy about your father spending too much time in the house with her and wanted him gone quickly in the mornings, be out of the house: “he likes to watch the news while he drinks his coffee before work, sometimes my mom gets mad at how long my dad takes to get ready in the morning.. she talks about how he is so slow and he watches tv in the morning”.
-she was unhappy about you (and your sister) spending too much time in the house, this is why she encouraged you to go to other people’s homes, to play with your friends in other people’s homes, and why she wanted schools to shorten summer vacations, so that you spend less time with her at home: “my mom gets happy when I make plans to go to people’s houses. Or.. make sure that all of us hang out at my friends house.. instead of burdening her with everyone over our house… She is happy when I have plans to occupy myself. She worries a lot that during summer vacation, it is so long, and I will get very lonely… So if I have good plans with friends during that time she is happy”.
Notice this: she told you that her worry about the summer vacation being too long was that you, CC, “will get too lonely”, but that was a lie. The truth is that she wanted to be alone, without you and your sister in the house, during much of the summer vacation.
“Sometimes I feel bad that my mom had to send me to camp one summer, because she didn’t know what I would do at home all summer- that I would get bored and lonely. She says how the camp was such a great one… because I had company and went everyday”- that was a lie. She wanted you in the camp not so that you will not be lonely, but because she didn’t want you in the house.
“she says that I .. am loud and talkative at home.. I act bad at home and cry and complain”- she didn’t enjoy your company, she didn’t want you at home. She wanted to be alone.
“My mom is so sick of my dad having a temper problem… she says she is the most unlucky woman because she has a husband like him.. a good job, but no personality.. ‘women need some things from a man’ and he can’t even do that”- she didn’t want him in the house.
“my cousins and aunts and uncles are bad to us- they are mean and put my mom and dad down”- she didn’t enjoy their company either.
Sometimes she liked your company: “I know my mom likes it when I am home too, because I give her company, we talk, and I sit with her when she is in the kitchen”- there were times when she liked your company.
“Sometimes she is happy when my good friends come over, because it makes the atmosphere more lively”- but most often she wants you, your sister, your friends, her husband.. out of the house!
“there is this saying she always says about me- like something like ‘I bring life and laughter into the house’. That without me- the house is quiet and cold, but when I am there, ‘it is full of life’ that I bring the ‘good energy'”- sometimes, but most of the times, she thinks you are “loud and talkative… I act bad at home and cry and complain”.
“sometimes my mom gets so mad and wants everyone to be quiet so she can be alone. but she hates being alone, as her biggest enemy is loneliness”- I think that often she wants to be alone and that her biggest perceived enemy is … other people, your father, her daughters, her extended family, strangers, anyone and everyone:
“She would exclaim the other party was fake and not caring. They do not have a clean heart…that mother (your friend’s mother) doesn’t have to do any work.. American people have dirty houses and don’t clean them…all she (your aunt) knows how to do all day- just cook cook cook… she was proud that I saw that my aunt is bad… all they (your father’s patients and others) do is act mean to us… they have jealousy and they may try to ruin things… Our family, we talk about this at dinner a lot. About our family and how bad they are…my cousins and aunts and uncles are bad to us- they are mean… they are not good people… my dad’s partner has jealousy of my dad.. he is cunning and makes my dad work more than he does”.
“they are not good people”- in her mind, no one is good people. No one is good, not even you. Notice this, you wrote: “sometimes at home my dad gets a bad temper when I complain- if he comes home and my mom is upset with me he gets a bad temper”-
-did you notice in this sentence that your mother was angry at you before your father came home?
(And didn’t she tell you, was it last time you talked to her, that she wished you weren’t born?)
No one is good except for herself, in her own mind.
You wrote that you thought that your mother “feels more than the average person, cares more, loves more”- she hates more. “I have a clean heart”, she said many times. No, she has a hateful heart. She doesn’t only hate the individuals that did hurt her before, she hates everyone forevermore.
She hates everyone and she lies a lot. She lies a whole lot.
There is more but enough for now. Take your time.
anitaApril 12, 2019 at 11:42 am #288867
No one is good except for herself, in her own mind.
You wrote that you thought that your mother “feels more than the average person, cares more, loves more”- she hates more. “I have a clean heart”, she said many times. No, she has a hateful heart. She doesn’t only hate the individuals that did hurt her before, she hates forevermore.
She hates everyone and she lies a lot. She lies a whole lot.
So true that she does not believe anyone is good except her own self. no one is good enough, no one has a clean heart. if at any given time someone conveniently helps her move her agenda, that person may be “deemed good” for just that second. in reality it is all lies like you said. all lies. all the stories.
The thing is, she hated to be alone, because it made her face nothing but her own self. yet, she was burdened by the presence of others if things didn’t go exactly according to her mood (ever changing) in that day. in short, she is an unlovable, miserable, liar.
I thought a lot last night after the posts to you.
i am obsessed with the happiness and contentment of others. my mother has told me – NO LIED TO me – my entire life. the lives of others in her eyes, made up, were a fallacy fed to me. others are lucky. we are not. others have the right path – we do not.
others will find happiness, we will not. period. end of story. no matter what ever and ever.
I see a slight opening in my mind today, I have read all that you wrote – and I see something, hard to put into words.
I suffer as a child of a liar. Children of criminals, convicts, and socipaths suffer. So do children of liars
Of course – if I saw a patient who was fed lies his/her whole life, I would say wow: how much suffering, how sad for her, wow she has no perspective of reality, she only knows a false world that was skewed and biased.
So if I worry, why I focus outward, why I can’t enjoy the moment just my spouse and I, why I deviate to think about others even when it doesn’t make sense – it isn’t because I was just to do so…it’s more than that.
I was taught this outside world is where the glitter and luck is, and if I spend my time there, perhaps I have a chance at it too. It is the place to seek, elsewhere, as only there is that chance. Spending time here and now, within myself and mine, there is no chance of it – so quickly go elsewhere. Go quick and find.
the reality is that the others arent so happy and lucky, theyre just normal. no one is better or luckier, or more fortunate. but believing this is like searching for gold in world full of dust.
constantly searching for that gold, go get it girlsApril 12, 2019 at 1:18 pm #288877
Dear Cali Chica:
“she only knows a false world that was skewed and biased”—
“why I focus outward… quickly go elsewhere. Go quick and find”- is it possible that your mother wanted you to go out so that she will be alone, not burdened with your company (see my post above), is it possible that she pressured you to go elsewhere, saying that you should make friends, not be lonely but really, she just wanted to be alone?
And this is why you feel pressure to “seek, go elsewhere” ever since?
“The thing is, she hated to be alone”- maybe as a child she hated to be alone, but from your descriptions she preferred to be alone much of the time, not all of the time
“she hated to be alone”- can you imagine that this in itself can be a lie???
anitaApril 12, 2019 at 1:48 pm #288879
I mean, she often didn’t want you and your sister in the house (encouraged the two of you to visit friends, wanted shorter summer vacations at school so that you spend time in school, not at home, sent you to summer camp), and she wanted your father to leave as early as possible in the mornings to his work… so that she will be alone in the house. Unless she had a visitor, such as a lover, wasn’t she alone when your father left to work and you and your sister were in school, nd preferred it that way?
anitaApril 12, 2019 at 2:59 pm #288883
You are saying would make sense, it would make sense if we were talking about a sane person, a woman that is of her word, I woman who abides by her word and actually makes sense. Someone who is consistent and predictable. However in the case of my mother we are not dealing with this sort of human. We are dealing with an unpredictable beast. As you have seen her words do not match her actions, her words do not match her needs, she is unaware of her needs, which are fleeting and changing at any given second anyway. Like a toddler with his hands thrashing around wanting to poop and P and eat at all the same times. Which one first? All of them, none of them.
I want to comes to the concept of being alone, I have seen the ugliest sides of my mother when she was in fact alone. Whether this meant that she was alone on a vacation, truly by herself. Or figuratively alone, feeling lonely. I can give you many different examples of this, and I will proceed to do so in the next post. But in short, my mother wanted desperately to be anything but alone, but she was so unbearable and miserable that she was unable to actually tolerate people around her. She was overwhelmed by the idea that my sister and I were lonely at home, so she wanted us to flee, and seek company of others she felt that this would satisfy her because then her daughters would have a social life that she always wanted, that she could never reach. Similarly When it came to my father she had true hatred for him in many ways given the way that he treated her early on, and also given the way that she is a narcissist who believes that her beauty and her amazing godliness is unreachable, and that no man is truly worthy. I know and I truly believe and I am 100% confident that if she was not arranged to my father, she would not have lasted in a marriage with anyone else, whether it was of her choice or not. She is in capable of any sort of union with another human being.
She never truly wanted my father out of the house, but she wanted to Mock and ridicule him when he was home. As soon as he left the house she would want to call him. She was happy when he came into the home because she was no longer alone, but the moment he stepped foot she would complain incessantly about all of his shortcomings. It is a weird dichotomy that is hard to explain. But a dichotomy it is.
Imagine I am sitting at home all day thinking I am sad and lonely, wishing that I had a job, wishing that I had a friend. However I am not doing anything about this, I am not going out into the world and becoming a good likable person, I am not joining any activities in which I could learn something and meet new people, I am not a humble likable person. So alas, when my husband arrives home I think wow now I have someone to talk to. However, I am quickly reminded of how he is not good enough for me. I am a princess, I am a queen, I deserve someone who kisses my feet. Alas I have been matched up with a buffoon, how dare the universe do this to me, doesn’t know my almightiness. Oh alas nothing is good enough at all, yes my husband has arrived home but I am still alone. In my misery that is.April 12, 2019 at 3:36 pm #288885
Dear Cali Chica:
You wrote so well and funny too: “I am a princess, I am a queen, I deserve someone who kisses my feet. Alas I have been matched up with a buffoon”. You heard her complain about your father’s unsatisfactory-to-her sexual performance, not specifically, thank god and you know she had one affair, so maybe, just maybe, she had a series of lovers who visited her when she was alone at home, and this is why she wanted to have the house to herself, wanted her daughters in school during summer or in camp, or with friends and her husband out of the house quickly in the mornings. Maybe, just maybe.
– I will be away from the computer for about 15 hours.
anitaApril 13, 2019 at 3:09 am #288907
It could absolutely be true. Especially as I got older. I left the house at 17 for college and then all of my schooling. I did not live far away, I would visit on certain weekends. Regardless, my sister who is almost 7 years younger was home during this time. My sister dealt a lot with what you have posted, my mother wanting her to be out of the house. I recall my sister would be starting downstairs in the same facility as my mother, and my large house, and my mother making snide comments about how she feels my sister is watching her, and feels annoyed that she’s always clinging to her. So then my sister would go upstairs and study in her room.It was like her presence annoyed her. You of course remember that we thought this was related to the fact that she is infuriated that my sister does not have many friends, and usually stays at home, more of a homebody during that time.
There was that one example that you know about, when we were having guests over, I recall having a phone call from my sister saying that she was pretty much kicked out of the house. My mother said to her, Cole even do something, it’s embarrassing for gas to see a grown girl like you sitting at home while they are here, go to something and come back in a few hours so it doesn’t look bad.
My mother had this idea that kids, teenagers, etc. should be out frolicking in the world with so many friends, that the parents shouldn’t have to be so involved in helping them have a social life. This was one of her biggest gripes of American culture, in India kids played outside and entertainment did. It have to be sought out constantly. In theory she has a point, as that was a different role she lived in, and a different environment. But her thesis is not really make sense when it comes to treating my sister this way.
So during the time in my medical school and she was having this affair, I can absolutely imagine that she couldn’t stand to have my sister around, my sister even has stories of noticing that my mother was in the closet on the phone secretly, quickly turning off the phone and getting angry with my sister walked in. She would exclaim, I have no privacy in my own home!
During this time my mother became very obsessed about speaking about the affairs of others. She said it was not uncommon for unhappily married Indian woman to have this sort of thing happen, they were arranged at a young age to men that they had nothing in common with, so as they reached middle-age, they often found themselves being attracted to other people, and finally having a chance. She would explain the stories to my sister and I as these woeful tragedies, this poor woman stuck with these horrible lives, finally having a chance to be set free finally some love. Once again in theory could possibly make sense, and a movie, etc. This is not an unheard story or plot. And of course this is what we believed.
You know something, this week I was watching that show again, the show of the dysfunctional family. It is a comedy, and there are multiple to dimensions. And one of the episodes, the oldest daughter, who is 21, ends up sleeping with a married man. There is so much hype and she hasn’t seen this guy since high school, and has lasted over him for many years. There is so much hype and build up to this sexual encounter of theirs, but when it finally happens, she’s left disappointed, it is almost comical.
There’s a TV show, but it got me thinking. My mother always told the first part of the story didn’t she. She would tell the first part of the story, oh wow, this woman has been needing this sexual encounter, and finally she met this man could fulfill her, after 30 or 40 years of being all alone in that house. Of course she never tells the second part of the story, what actually happens? Does it actually make her happy? No. It’s like one small girls tell stories, they talk about a princess being carried away by his parents. But as an adult we know there are other dimensions. Does the spreads have a job? Do they actually get married? Do they have a stable marriage? I almost laughed as I write all of this, but it is pretty much reality versus fantasy. Did Cinderella actually have a retirement and long lasting husband!?
Point of the matter is, she taught us nothing about reality in real life, just fed us fantasies and lies didn’t she. In fact, no matter how educated I am her only girl is in this scenario it doesn’t matter because the true life skills are all based on a fantasy.
It is like saying, go out there find your prince charming Cinderella. So this girl is out there are seeking and seeking and is finding herself frustrated this prince charming that you explain mother I’m having trouble finding him. So the mother says will try harder, perhaps there is something wrong with you, why wouldn’t you be able to find him? So the girl the spares, and continues to try to find yourself deeply depressed that she will never succeed.
But the mother fed her lies. The mother never taught her what is important, with the reality of this so-called prince would be. The mother never taught her what is important, how to approach peopleAnd that at the end of the day reality is more important than what we see on TV or hear from other people.
As an educated woman in society, I truly believed all these fantasies. It’s not that I grew up watching Disney movies and thinking that they were real, no I had a delusional mother to feed these boys for me, different kinds of lies but fantasies nonetheless.
The other thing is that it was all black and white, and so in the example above, she would explain the first part of this fantasy, scorned and alone woman going out and finding true love, how amazing, how inspring But let’s say she decides to tell us another part of the story now, of course not the realistic ending. It would be that the man that she ends up with never leaves his own life. His own wife who is a fat troll. So alas this one woman continues her Misery. What is the moral of the story? Is it that the women didn’t see things clearly? Is it that all that glitters isn’t gold? Yes, she would use this term countlessly. All that glitters isn’t gold. But listen to this, this would be her theory and conclusion. It would be that this poor woman has bad luck and she will never ever be happy…
This is her example of all that glitters isn’t gold. It is that this poor woman will never be happy, or that other man is evil. That is it. It is not that the true moral of that story is that what we seek out is not always what it seems. No that would be the adult tomorrow or lesson. Nope, good or bad still a lofty example nonetheless. Always for her.
Well, we talked about when my mother would make those comments about her unsatisfactory love life You mentioned that it was at least good that she did not go into further detail, oh God. But that is not true, I didn’t want to really mention it here as it may not be something that is great to talk about. But regardless, my mother would talk about this, that her needs wouldn’t be met. she would teach my sister and I that some women have more sexual desire than others, and so it is unfair for those women to be with men who cannot fulfill them. She would explain that some women are just that way. She told my sister and I that she believes my sister has that, and I don’t. She would say that some women are more hot, and some women are more cold. In this meaning of more or less lustful/sexually driven. If my sister was on this post right now she would explain it even better, but pretty much, she feels that ever since my sister was younger, she would be interested in romantic novels and books like that and TV shows, so she knows my sister has a higher drive like that. But she never saw that in me, and she knows that I am not that interested in those things, so I am not really like that. She took great pride in explaining this to us, and finding solidarity with my sister in that they are both the same. Oh her and I – we are similar in that way. We just listed and observed we were not really offended or seemingly put off by this at all, or intrigued or anything just listened.She would then go on and explain that women like her they have these increased desires and needs, and so if they are set up with a man who is not able to perform in such a manner, it is a tragedy. I am refraining from adding my adult input here, as I want to explain it to you as it was back then.
April 13, 2019 at 3:18 am #288911
- This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Cali Chica.
I hope you read my previous post, and would like you to comment on that first before proceeding and reading here. I am continuing to write as it is flowing well this morning.
So the last part of my post, it also goes along with the idea of that she only talked about fantasy. She glorified sexual encounters I need up. Did she actually talk about the physical act or explicit details, no. But she glorified the fact that some men can be so incredible, and amazing, and fulfill woman. And that is very important to fine. She would tell us that unfortunately she is so scarred and miserable because she did not have this in her life, so she hopes that my sister and I find that.
Now in my own life, I was never very promiscuous, quite focused on meeting good boys, and dating. I was never the type to sleep around, or be that sexually driven. But most importantly the entire concept of all of this was very scewed in my head.
It’s like the Cinderella example what if someone told you that love and marriage is exactly like Cinderella, and that is the only example you know. So when you actually meet someone and get married, you would be terribly disappointed, or confused, You think that something is wrong. With that person likely! “Look this isn’t right this isn’t what is supposed to happen! This is nothing like Prince Charming and Cinderella!”
so this background is a lot of the reason of my abuse and attacking of my husband. Not being taught reality, and LOVE
being taught seeking and fantasy
– I’ll add more soonApril 13, 2019 at 8:09 am #288923
Dear Cali Chica:
I am responding to the first post, not having read the second yet, first some retelling then my thoughts:
You left for college at 17, your 10 year old sister stayed with your mother, your mother wanted “her to be out of the house”, “Making snide comments about how she feels my sister is watching her, and feels annoyed that she’s always clinging to her”, “It was like her presence annoyed her”, “she couldn’t stand to have my sister around” and your sister noticed that your mother “was in the closet on the phone secretly, quickly turning off the phone and getting angry with my sister walked in. She would exclaim, I have no privacy in my own home!”
“During this time my mother became very obsessed about speaking about the affairs of others. She said it was not uncommon for unhappily married Indian women to have this sort of thing happen… they often found themselves being attracted to other people… this poor woman stuck with these horrible lives, finally having a chance to be set free finally some love”. And she told you and your sister that she had strong sexual needs, was “more hot” than other women, that your sister is like her that way, and you are not. And she told you that your father “is not able to perform in such a manner”.
My thoughts this morning, some of them (there are many):
Your mother’s selfishness is extreme. In her mind she is entitled to anything her heart desires, no matter how it affects others. She doesn’t care how her words and behavior affect her husband or daughters. She has no empathy for anyone but herself, she has no care for how someone else feels.
Life in her mind really is all about her. I gave you the extreme example recently, that if she murdered an innocent person, if she stabbed and killed another, and her arm hurt as a result, she would complain about her arm hurting. She would exclaim this murder to be her tragedy because her arm hurt, not a tragedy to the victim. Or the victim’s relatives.
Having no consideration for anyone but herself, she tells the truth and she lies- every day. Sometimes she tells her truth, at other times she lies and it doesn’t matter to her. She doesn’t care that her daughters will get confused by the mix of truth and lies. They don’t matter. So she says things, whatever suits her.
It is very difficult to separate the truth from lies when a person habitually lies. And when you are a young child, you believe everything a parent tells you. Once you do, it is very difficult to figure to separate the lies from the truth later on in life.
I think that she thought that “kids, teenagers, etc. should be out frolicking in the world with so many friends”, but it was a secondary thought. Her main thought, the one she didn’t say, was: I want to be alone! I don’t want these girls in my house!
It makes her look better to say that kids need friends. It would have made her look bad if she said she doesn’t want her daughters in her house. She thinks it is good for kids to have friends, but she doesn’t have a caring emotion attached to this thought- she doesn’t have the emotional well being of her daughters in mind when she talked about the importance of making friends. She had her self interest in mind.
Basically, she didn’t care about you, CC, having friends. She cared about you being out of the house so that she can be alone- alone or with a lover.
I don’t know if she had one sexual affair while married or many, I tend to believe many. Because why wouldn’t she- there is no concern for others, none whatsoever, she feels entitled, so if she meets a man who is interested in her, why not?
I think you need to do more of that separating the truth from the lies of what she told you, see her better for who she is. This will lead you to see better who you are.
Next I will read your recent post and reply to that, then wait for your reply.
anitaApril 13, 2019 at 8:22 am #288929
Dear Cali Chica:
“She would tell us that unfortunately she is so scarred and miserable because she did not have this in her life, so she hopes that my sister and I find it”-
– and you thought, as a child, that she cared, that she would find some contentment if you had what she didn’t have, correct?
Similar to her saying that she didn’t have the opportunity to dance/ be on TV when she was a child (if I remember correctly) and therefore wanted you and your sister to dance, and your sister to be on TV-
– and that made you think, as a child, that she would have found some contentment in you enjoying what she didn’t?
Made you think she had love in her heart for you and for your sister…?
I will wait for your answer before volunteering my own.
*Regarding how her words affected your dating/ marriage- this is what I meant by you seeing yourself better when you see her better, when you see her as she is, more later.