December 7, 2018 at 4:37 am #268229
Hey guys.. ahm.. I don’t really know how to start this. I will try to be somehow brief but in the same time try my best to explain my situation. I’m a 25 years old guy living in Europe and I am single since 3 months. The thing is, I am shy. It really depends on the situation, sometimes I can be quite confident and extroverted, but It really depends on the subject or the people around me.
It’s really funny somehow.. It’s like one of those totem poles from India.. which consist in those characters laying on top of each other so they form some kind of pole. If I find someone less interesting / attractive / confident / ” important ” / worse in some way .. than me I tend to act more confident and relaxed around them.. sometimes even tending to dominate the conversations.. and it makes me feel good and strong.. It’s actually selfish ! On the other hand, when things turn out to be the opposite way, when there’s someone more interesting / attractive etc. I tend to be shy and insecure.. no matter how much I try I end up more quiet and anxious. I’m pretty sure I am not the only one experiencing these symptoms..
But I was always shy.. and I was always quite bad with relationships.. especially talking to girls. And.. this is very, very frustrating. I always wanted to be good at dating and to have an active sex life.. but that didn’t work because I always avoided it.. Its like you want something but you don’t in the same time.
By now I only had 2 relationships and 3 sexual partners. And that frustrates me a lot !!! Not the relationships part.. What bothers me so much is the fact that I’ve only had 3 sexual partners.. and I’m 25. Two of them where long term relationships…
In high school by the age of 17 I had my first sexual partner.. a girl I loved and dated for 2 and a half years. We broke up when we started university and we went back together after 5 months. We made it 5 more month and then I broke up with her.. because she cheated on me.. and I was hurt.
In university years I’ve been to parties and clubs, surrounded by girls but didn’t really connect in much ways with any of them.. I guess I was quite closed and girls didn’t really talk to me.. I was too shy to talk to girls I was attracted to.. And yes.. they where a few girls who liked me and made a few steps towards connection but I wasn’t interested.. mostly because I wasn’t interested in them.. and because I would’ve probably felt ashamed to go out with them because I always wanted myself to date beautiful girls..
So from November 2012 until the beginning of 2017. More than 4 years.. I’ve been lonely. I wasn’t dating and I didn’t have sex. I was watching porn quite often and masturbate but nothing else. In the course of these 4 years I kissed a few girls and I had a few good opportunities but I guess I’ve been too scared. I don’t really understand why. I am so ashamed that from the age of 20 until the age of 24 I had literally no sex.. It really makes me feel like I am a looser, and it puts a lot of pressure on me.
In 2016 I went to do an Erasmus year in Spain, and I was hoping to change my life.. I was hoping to go to parties a lot and have more sexual partners.. I felt like I missed out so much.. and I miss out a lot. But not much happened there either.. I kissed a few girls, had some kind of bond with one of my flatmates and we almost had sex but I guess she was shy as well so she backed off. There where few girls who where interested in me but I wasn’t attracted to them.. Again.. probably I was thinking about others seeing me with someone unattractive.. and I didn’t want that. I guess if we where somewhere where I had no friends and no one would actually see me, I would’ve dated pretty much any girl.. because I was quite desperate.. I probably sound like an awful person..
So 2016 passed and.. at the beginning of 2017 I met this girl on the beach.. for some reason I found the courage to talk to her.. and it was magical.. It was amazing. We ended up having a relationship for 1 and a half years and we moved from a country to another for each other.. We made big efforts. Sadly It didn’t work. There is one thing.. Even if I now had a girlfriend, at the beginning we didn’t have sex because she left Spain right after we met.. so we only kissed.. but we had an amazing connection.. and we kept skypeing every day. She was in her country and I was still in Spain.. and I was very frustrated because I still haven’t had sex in 4 years.. and I really wanted to have a one night stand.. I simply didn’t wanted my Erasmus year to be like that.. I wanted at least once to have that experience.. So I found this girl in a bar.. and we connected well.. She was 30, Korean and really attractive. Even if I had a girlfriend I wanted to do that.. more out of frustration. I simply wanted to act like any other exchange student.. So I did. And I felt really good after.. Yes I felt guilty.. but I also felt accomplishment.
So.. I finally had sex after 4 years.. and after a while I had sex with my girlfriend as well.. And we had sex for one and a half years more.. Our relationship was great at the beginning but It didn’t really work.. I was still frustrated because I only had 3 sexual partners by the age of 25.. and I was always thinking about having more girls.. and I acted quite frustrated around her.. I did feel that I love her a lot.. And maybe I did.. but in the same time I was scared that I might feel like that because I finally had a girl who was interested in me and I didn’t want to loose her.. On the other hand I was scared that everything will stop here.. and I will marry her.. and my dating life will simply stop.. And.. Yes… in a way I would’ve liked to marry her.. but.. I was quite often thinking about having more sexual partners.. more experiences.. We broke up 3 months ago.. and.. I guess it’s better that way.
Ok.. sorry for this long post.. I guess I got carried away.. somehow writing all this makes me feel so awkward.. All those lonely years I felt like everyone was having sex except me.. And it looked like everyone did. I felt so frustrated.. But did nothing about it.
What I really want.. as selfish as it might sound.. is to somehow make up for those years.. and simply date girls, have one night stands.. I feel like I should do this now.. while I am so young. I want to do that but I am anxious and I don’t feel very comfortable around girls.. And.. often I felt like I take whatever I can get.. I almost fall in love with whoever gives me a bit of attention..
Im 25 now.. 26 in a few weeks.. and I want to change my sex life. I don’t know how you guys see all this situation.. maybe some of you think I am superficial… and maybe I am.. but I want to feel confident and worthy. I don’t know how to get past this wall between me and the connections I could have with girls..
While I was dating, I sexually performed quite well.. in all 3 cases I got lots of compliments towards my sexual performances.. so that is not the reason what scares me.. I guess it should be a reason to feel confident. But I still don’t.
I am sure about one thing. I don’t want to end up being like I’ve been for those 4 years. That is not an option.
I don’t know If any of you have been through something like this.. and I don’t know If any of you could help in any way but I am very grateful you you reading all this. And.. if you could give me an insight I would be even more grateful.
Thank you !December 7, 2018 at 8:06 am #268237
You had more sex than many, being in your mid twenties: four and a half years of regular sex in the context of two long term relationships (“In high school by the age of 17 I had my first sexual partner… for 2 and a half years. We broke up .. went back together.. made it 5 more months“, plus second long term girlfriend: “we had sex for one and a half years more”)
And you had excellent performance kind of sex with the two women (and third, one night stand or a few such): “I sexually performed quite well… in all 3 cases I got lots of compliments towards my sexual performances”
Having re-read much of your previous thread of earlier this year where we communicated much, I would say that the problem is not that you didn’t have enough sex and therefore should have more, but that you were not adequately present in the sex that you did have (and in life otherwise), and therefore you should become present in your own life.
Long ago, in those Formative Years of your childhood, you disappeared. You now need to reappear. You wrote summer this year: “I keep feeling like I should just disappear. Go somewhere new and just start a new life. Just leave everything behind”- thing is, you already disappeared. You need to reappear.
As a child, every day after school you waited for your parents at their workplace for 6-7 hours, doing nothing. Following that long daily wait, they took you home where your room was a storage room, the stuff there was not yours, and your parents entered that room whenever they needed an item stored there. The door was made of glass, “They could almost see me through that glass door. Also hear me.”
They saw and heard your physical body, the sight of you and the sound of you. They didn’t see you deeper than that. It is almost as if you were an item in that storage room, just an item that they sometimes criticized (ex., not doing homework).They saw your physical body but they didn’t see that you were lonely and trapped and unloved.
“I never had my own space… I used to minimize whatever was happening on my computer every time they were entering the room… I was trying to keep something for myself… I also kept most of my friends as a secret from them. I never wanted my parents to get to know my friends”
You minimized your computer screen and you minimized yourself, hiding.
Even during summer, in the lake house, “I was trapped there waiting for people to come and give me some attention. I guess.. I was very lonely. Well.. Not. My parents were there every second of my childhood”
Your parents were there a whole lot, you saw them for hours as they worked after school, you saw them at home, you saw a whole lot of them, but you were a non-person to them, but some sort of a person-item. Something to feed, to buy this or that for, to finance, but not to see into your heart and mind.
Your interests disappeared: “In school I was never interested in much of the subjects and I just wanted time to pass.. I used to study enough to pass my exams. I wasn’t interested in much”-
Having disappeared you went through the motions, achieving the minimal for the minimal you. And from your entrapment with your parents, behind that glass door, as your parents were to enter that room anytime they needed something there, you found refuge behind your computer: “I used to come back home after (school), start my PC and did that until the end of the day”. Even in Spain, away from your parents, during your Erasmus year, “After few months I was already spending most of my time on my computer”.
In your interactions with peers, including women (when you saw them at the lower end of the totem pole you mentioned), you were “hiding ..under a mask of a successful and charismatic guy”… “sometimes even tending to dominate the conversations.. and it makes me feel good and strong”.
But outside your refuge at the computer and putting on the social mask, you feel “like I lack direction, purpose and energy… I feel blank and I feel desperate to find whatever is missing there”-
what is missing there is what disappeared long ago. Bring that part back and you will slowly feel involved in life, involved in relationships, in the work place, no longer performing, wearing a mask, but really being there.
I think it will take quality psychotherapy for you to reappear.
anitaDecember 7, 2018 at 10:41 am #268259
One more thing, Robi1992: the particulars, the details of your story, these are special to you, the waiting for your parents for 6-7 hours and living in the storage room with glass door, these are yours, but disassociation, the disappearing of a big part of oneself, that is true to everyone, me included. Different details but same process, the disappearing. If you watch young children, how they play, how they anticipate what is next, the joy, the excitement… where does it all go?
Watch the adults, those dull faces (when not smiling to the camera), the disinterest, where did that joy and excitement of early childhood go?
This disappearing, this disassociation, that is true to all of us. You are not alone in it.
The process of re-association, that is possible for you. I am experiencing it myself these very days.
anitaDecember 7, 2018 at 4:08 pm #268307
Wow.. I mean.. WOW ! I am truly amazed by the way you put all this together. I don’t know how but you got it so right.. This is really incredible. I am really flattered by all the effort you put in all this and I am so grateful for all this. I don’t know why you are doing all this but.. I know one thing.. not many people would and could do that. I can’t really find my words .. but what I’m trying to say is that what you are doing is amazing and you are doing so much good ! You are really great !
After reading your reply few things started clicking.. In a way they did click before but I guess I put them on hold somewhere..
Lately things where difficult.. I left the big city I was living in, left the job at the restaurant which I kept for one month.. and moved back with my parents in order to save some money and go to Germany. Deep down I knew the relationship won’t work and it was a mistake.. but I did it. So.. since September I am here.. the plan was to be in Germany by October.. but I didn’t work out. So I ended up being kind of stuck here living with my parents again. It wasn’t easy.. but I decided to do a fresh start. I decided to go to Spain. I decided to end the year here since it’s difficult to find jobs this time of the year and go to Spain in January. I am not saying that I am completely sure it’s the right move.. but I feel that I need to fresh start somewhere and find a job and try to build a life for myself. It somehow feels that if I stay here I will always be helped by my parents and I will always feel controlled. And… maybe I will also stay comfortable instead of doing more.. Because I guess I tend to come back to them when things don’t work out.. and that is definitely not the answer. I feel that I should do something for myself finally. Just me.
So… I know therapy would be the answer to this. Sadly at the moment I cannot afford that.. As you probably imagine, I am still unemployed and I don’t have much money.. It does hurt to rely on my parents money. I feel embarrassed.
Deep down I always liked the sea.. I always wanted to be somewhere warm and I always liked the mediteranean way of living. I liked being there even If I sometimes had hard times there as well. I am willing to try that option. And yes.. I am scared that it might not work, or I might not perform good enough.. But I have to do that.. just me, on my own feet. It’s less likely to quit my job and stay home comfortable while my parents take care of my finances. And.. it’s more likely that I will build confidence once I start working and earning my own money. The main thing is.. I felt like I belong there much more than I do here.. maybe it’s the right place for me but maybe I wasn’t exactly the right person. I would like to know your honest opinion on my plan.. Somehow I sense that you will say that I am running.. And in a way I am.. but maybe it’s the right thing to do.
As for my parents.. being here these months.. made me look at them and at their lifestyle more… somehow analyzing them. My parents really seem to be … boring and bored. They have been like that pretty much since I can remember. My father was always playing everything safe.. he was never involved in anything. He never did sports, he never had hobbies except of work.. he never seemed to have much content.. He was just sitting around. ( sounds familiar eh? ) He never encouraged me to do any sports or learn any skill. He never encouraged me to help others. He always told me to stay away and mind my own business. My mom had more adventurer spirit.. but I guess it’s been suppressed by my father a lot.. so she was weak enough to just obey. She wasn’t happy with him.. but she stayed for me.. or she was too scared to just start over. If u ask me… I would say both. I would describe both of them as being anxious and disconnected. My father never makes eye contact with me ( or others.. haven’t really noticed that ). Maybe they where simply not aware enough and not skillful enough to provide me with a more caring, fun and involving childhood. I does feel like I am a result of their both personalities.. It really does. But I am not happy with that.
As my conclusion… my parents never had fun, never really had a social life and they’ve been doing the same thing over and over since I can remember. They’ve been sitting around looking at others enjoying their lives and accepted this role of being the observers who maybe dare but inactive. I guess they just took the simple but as you said, minimal way.. and unfulfilling way. And… that is definitely not the way I want my journey to be. I am not willing to limit myself and live in a shell just because I was never taught how to live more and how to reach a higher potential. Maybe a lot of people skip the analyzing and questioning part and just lock themselves safely in a place where they wait for the time to pass.. Maybe some people would just accept the way things are in my life.. and just carry on that way. Seems like my parents did exactly that. But not me.
I know I can do so much more and I could be so much more for myself and for the ones around me. I know I can be a better and more connected person and I can bring good to my life and to others. This reminds me of Sinatra.. I need MY WAY.
Thank you anita ! So much ! You taught me a lot !December 7, 2018 at 4:12 pm #268309
I’m not trying to judge, really. Just trying to give advice. It does seem superficial, to me, to think that you need a lot of sexual partners, or that you need someone very attractive.
Are you realistic about being with someone who is at an equal level of attractiveness to your own? If you watch a lot of porn, your attitudes can get warped about how beautiful or sexy you “need” a woman to be.
Also, social media and fictional things, like movies or TV, don’t portray reality. You may think that other people have so much sex or so many partners, but even if some of it is true, that type of existence is a pretty empty and unhappy one, for most of those people.
Loving yourself first is key, then living your life (not just sex), then the person who is right for you will come into your life.
Sex isn’t the main thing in life, it’s just a part of life. Being loved for your whole self, not just your body, is what will really make you happy.
I think you will probably want to learn to let go of your extreme fantasies, and learn to just love and be loved instead.
p.s. I wrote all of that before seeing your newest post.
December 8, 2018 at 6:08 am #268379
- This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Mimi.
You are welcome and thank you for your kind words!
When I read about your current plan to go to Spain, my immediate feeling about it was liking it, thinking it is a good idea. I have no doubt that not living with your parents is a good idea, and Spain, why not Spain, after all you had two months worth of an excellent experience there, and the weather/scenery is to your liking.
If you had a different set of parents, you would be a different kind of person now, why limit yourself (minimizing that screen) because of who your parents are. If you want your screen/life minimized, choose it because this is who you want to be, not because of who they are. In other words, I hope your life becomes about you, who you were early on, before you adjusted to your home life.
Here is where your hope is, as I see it: you wrote about your father, “My father never makes eye contact with me (or others.. haven’t really noticed that)”- it is that not making eye contact, isolating, that makes it possible for him to remain minimal. You want to maximize the screen, to shift to full or fuller screen, so to speak, then do make eye contact with people.
This is how we, being the social animals that we are (like dogs and wolves and such) get the energy and motivation to explore, that very connection with others. But one has to be selective as to who these others are.
But there must be at least one other person with whom you do have a meaningful connection, looking into the eyes, not hiding, but revealing.
It will not be easy, far from it, but you can do it and I hope you post again anytime you’d like. It is not about me, that is, your journey is not about pleasing or displeasing me, so post regardless of what is happening and I will be glad to reply to you every time you do.
December 10, 2018 at 2:59 am #268603
- This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by anita.
Thank you so much for your reply. Indeed I guess watching a whole lot of movies and sometimes scrolling social media has a lot to o with the way I see things. I’ve always liked watching movies.. and I always get inspired in some way from them.. It’s pretty much like I’m trying to imitate some kind of lifestyle seen in movies.. but I end up being far away from my true self..which I actually don’t know. I don’t really know that true me.. so I don’t really feel contented..
I hope that, with time and dedication to myself, things will start to feel right. Maybe this topic shouldn’t be about sex life.. it should be simply about life.. but at the moment sex life bothered me so much.. It’s actually pretty much everything unbalanced in my life at the moment. But I hope for a big transformation soon.
Thank youDecember 10, 2018 at 3:30 am #268605
Thank you !
Yesterday my ex landlord from Spain wrote me a message. She said she has a room for me starting from 22nd of December ( which funny enough happens to be my birthday .. ). Even if it’s pure coincidence I perceived it as some kind of ”sign”. I decided to go for it and one of these days I will send her some money as a deposit, and I am planning to move there starting from January.
So basically.. I am going to move back to one of the rooms I used to live 3 years ago. It feels good because I know the landlord and she is really nice. I guess I would’ve preferred something completely new, but trusting and knowing the landlord it’s important for me. I’m grateful for her accepting to host me even if I don’t have a job yet.. and paying the rent could be a problem.. But she took that chance. My mother is going to help me with the deposit and some money for the rent.. let’s say until I find my balance. I am not very happy with the situation but right now I cannot do it on my own..
I felt like my plans are slowly falling into place yesterday, and I was happy. But. And there is a but.. of course. Anxiety started to kick in. ‘
‘ What If I won’t find a job and I will be supported by my parents again and again? ”
” What If I realize that I like it here more than I actually like it there.. ? ”
” But being here is not that bad.. I have my friends here and if I go back to the big city I used to live in.. I could have great relationships ”
” What If I will be too shy to integrate at my workplace… if I find any ”
” It would be easier to be a photographer here… simply because of the absence of the language barrier.. and because I know more people.. ”
” What if I will be anxious and I will have no confidence.. and as a result, I will perform badly at my workplace ? ”
I hate this… I wanted that and now that I am coming closer to it.. I start being scared about it. It might be normal in some cases.. but again.. every time I am moving towards something / anything.. there is resistance.. and I seem to find reasons not t do it. But the thing is.. if things where the other way around, I would probably regret not going to Spain..
Analysis Paralysis ?.. I don’t know.
It’s not going to be easy for me to find work there.. it’s not a big city.. but that’s what I like about it. There are a few nice bars I used to go to.. and I used to have lots of friends there.. So..social life was always interesting because of the big wave of travelers. So there is variety and there are a lot of interesting people to talk to. But of course.. I had a lot of time to do that while I was doing my Erasmus.. Because school was quite laid back.. and my internship was pretty much just on paper since my ”boss” only signed my papers so I can enjoy the sun and the parties.. but actually had no need for an intern.. So I had money from the European Union as my scholarship, and a lot of free time.. So there was nothing else to do than go out. Of course things will be different this time.. very different. But isn’t that what I want ?
So.. I again feel stuck. If I do nothing I feel frustrated and If I’m making progress I feel scared ( or whatever it is that I’m feeling ).
I think the main reason why I haven’t been doing much with my life has to do with me being anxious.. socially anxious and insecure. And I think this is my strongest enemy.
Thank you for reading 🙂December 10, 2018 at 7:56 am #268635
First thing, personally I am not motivated that you move to Spain. It feels like a good idea but I don’t know if it will turn out well for you. Regardless, I would like to communicate with the fear-in-you as well as with you (the you underneath the fear):
“What if I won’t find a job and I will be supported by my parents again and again?”- you don’t have a job now and you are supported by your parents now.
“What if I realize that I like it here more than I actually like it there… Being here is not that bad.. I have my friends here and if I go back to the big city I used to live in.. I could have great relationships”- what city (you don’t have to state the name of it) and what experience was that, I don’t remember…? What great relationships will you have there, people you didn’t yet meet?
Maybe that city you are referring to is a better option than Spain.
“What if I will be too shy to integrate at my workplace… if I find any”- employment possibilities is a very important consideration when considering moving anywhere, so better do the research! You mentioned the “absence of the language barrier” as far as finding employment as a photographer, and it is something to consider, as well as the factor of having contacts, “because I k now more people”, as you wrote.
“What if I will be anxious and I will have no confidence .. and as a result, I will perform badly at my workplace?”- anxiety will be a problem anywhere and everywhere, because your anxiety resides within the space between your ears and that small space is the space that matters most, the place from which you can not move and relocate.
In summary, I would say, investigate employment possibilities in Spain and in that big city you mentioned as a first priority consideration, consider language and contacts as part of such possibilities.
Oh, regarding your birthday being on the date that room in Spain will be available to you- not a sign, says I. My goodness, I can’t count the many, many times I used to see signs that were not signs, many hundreds of times. And I read from other people who see signs, same results, nothing.
anitaDecember 24, 2018 at 2:48 am #270689
I wish you a Merry Christmas ! Hope you will have a good one !
Thank you 🙂December 24, 2018 at 7:10 am #270715
M E R R Y C H R I S T M A S to you too, Robi1992 !!!
Post again anytime.
anitaDecember 24, 2018 at 7:11 am #270717
* didn’t reflect under TopicsJanuary 10, 2019 at 9:19 am #273655
Hi, Robi. I wanted to register just so I could respond to this. I am in a similar situation.
I am 28 years old, I have never had a sexual partner. I have never been in a relationship for a single day. I have never kissed anyone. My experiences with physical intimacy are touches on the shoulder and hugs.
This wouldn’t be such a big problem for me if I didn’t feel massive amounts of attraction towards women. Women seem so interesting, beautiful and attractive. On some days I fully accept myself the way I am. On some days I really do feel like a huge loser and a failure. I crave for attention, interest, love and touch from women and it feels I am never able to get it. It’s so frustrating. Seems that I feel much of the same things that you do.
I am very surprised to see you describe that you are shy and insecure for being in “only” 2 relationships and that you have had “only” 3 sexual partners by age 25. Do you some times think back to your relationships and sexual experiences and feel gratitude? I know I try to think back to my dating experiences with gratitude, even though it often feels quite unsatisfying for me.
I have heard of accounts of men like me who are in a similar situation by their late thirties and early forties, so I suppose that things could be worse for me, heh.
Last year I finally stopped belittling my problem and went to psychotherapy. It has been a huge help. I am finally overcoming my toxic self-image of shyness and self-loathing. Now I have began slowly getting signals of interest from women and it feels wonderful. Still have no idea how to have a sexual partner or a girlfriend. Hopefully I will figure it out soon.
I do have a super-satisfying and steady job and I have gotten everything else in my life in order. I try to focus on gratitude, even though my problem sometimes feels like it’s unbearable.
If you can’t afford psychotherapy, look for sexual health events and events that have to do with relationships. You might be able to talk to professionals there. Also I recommend you should read some amounts of books on sexual health (reading too much might split your head with knowledge, so don’t do it too much).
Do continue to masturbate and fantasize, it’s what all sexual health professionals recommend you to do. At least try watching porn much less or try taking a break from it. Porn can be addicting. Masturbation, fantasizing, no porn and no other erotic entertainment has worked for me. My satisfaction towards life increased as a result.
I hope you will respond, man. I think we could learn from each other. I hope that anyone who reads this could learn from me.January 11, 2019 at 8:11 am #273843
My therapist told me once that this world creates a lot of pressure towards all of us. We are all pressured into having lots of activities and hobbies, into studying, improving ourselves, getting a job, making friends, dating, having sexual relations, starting a family, and so on. So what if we fail to get some of these things in time? Does it meant that we are bad? That we have failed at life? That’s an awfully cynical outlook, but it must be something that all of us feel.
Sure sex is an obsession in this world. The taboo of sex here is being slowly demolished, and now sexual content is everywhere. Having the taboo demolished might still be better than in countries where sex is a huge taboo that must not be mentioned in any situation.
I will admit that one reason I wanted to post this was in an attempt to bump this post on the threads listing. It seemed like there is a bug, that my post wasn’t bumped when I wrote the above message. Or is this by design on the forums?January 11, 2019 at 8:22 am #273845
* Dear Mandelbrot: sometimes after a member submits a post it doesn’t reflect under the list of Topics. When that happens I add a post “didn’t reflect under Topics” and submit that, it takes care of the problem. I hope the original poster answers you, but it does happen that several days after the last post, the OP simply doesn’t return. If you want start your own thread, you are welcome to do so.