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  • #432576
    anita
    Participant

    Dear SadSoul:

    I have been mia because my week has been huge, not anything whatever to do with you…“- you do know me. My first thought was that you were upset with me/ offended/ angry because I shared about people having guns in their homes. This thought repeated itself a few times in the last few days. Another thought: SadSoul is very busy at work, she said so earlier, so that’s probably why she didn’t post.

    When I read your response about the guns (“You live in the wild, wild west!“), I saw no evidence to the first thought above.

    And I am sure that you know that my suspicion that I said something wrong, and that as a result, people get offended and angry at me, has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the fact that this was my real-life experience with you know whom: I’d say X (nothing with the intent to offend) and days or even weeks later, she’d bring it up and how much I had hurt her feelings, and how I intended to hurt her when I said X, and she’d go on and on about it. This is why I was very quiet, didn’t speak. I had vocal tics, but no words.

    I only locked in till October too, so it’s not forever“- five months of very busy.

    I got a very long and newsy message from my son… I felt confused, cautious, and a bit numb… Now I feel at peace and grateful he gave me an update of his life. I hope it’s the start of something better between us“- I hope so too. Peace and grateful is a good thing!

    Other than that it hasn’t stopped raining…”– wet soul, sad soul.

    You live in the wild, wild west!“- literally, yes.

    Salad without dressing is only suitable for rabbits to eat“- I now remember that shortly after I asked you if you use dressing on your salad, her (you know whose) disapproving, judgmental and accusatory voice said: of course she does not, dressing is for people like you who don’t appreciation elegant flavors! something like that. She was so very judgmental about people on an ongoing basis: too short, too tall, too thin, too … too loud, too quiet, what they wear, how they wear it, etc., and all this before passing judgment on what they say.

    How are you going? I hope it’s been a tolerable week for you. You’ve been in my thoughts from time to time.“- been thinking of you too. It’s been very warm here, too warm at times, but tolerable. I felt unusually calm one day, I think it was yesterday. Now my right shoulder is twitching again, and hurting, too much coffee maybe.

    Thank you for your message on my thread, I like it very much. As a matter of fact, it is making me smile right now, for the first time this Saturday morning.

    I am going to close this post with saying: it is possible that I will later scan this message in my mind, looking for something I might have said (typed) wrong, something that may have offended you.. nothing I can think of right now, but I have no doubt that she (her voice in my brain) can easily find that something, just give her a moment..

    Please do not feel any pressure of any kind to submit a post for me anytime soon. My sane voice says: SadSoul is a very, very busy (peaceful and grateful still, I hope) SadSoul.  Take good care of yourself in these busy, overworking, rainy times!

    anita

     

    #432586
    SadSoul
    Participant

    you do know me. My first thought was that you were upset with me/ offended/ angry because I shared about people having guns in their homes. This thought repeated itself a few times in the last few days. Another thought: SadSoul is very busy at work, she said so earlier, so that’s probably why she didn’t post.

    First off, I barely ever feel angry, only hurt. And if I felt hurt I’d tell you, but occasionally it might take me a day to process my feelings so my communication is logical. But believe me, I would not just disappear! I know the fear of not knowing and I never want to cause another to feel it. I am proud of your progression in being able to have the latter thoughts as well! To be able to have that thoughts is moving forward! One day hopefully the fearful thoughts won’t even bother to surface.

    I have one of my kids here so I’m going to go and enjoy them. They live almost a country away, well, several if we were in some parts of the world, so I don’t get to see them very much. I’ll be back though! I haven’t even read past your first paragraph! Oh, on top of that, the sun is shining. I have a smile on my face!

    #432590
    anita
    Participant

    Dear SadSoul:

    if I felt hurt, I’d tell you… I would not just disappear“- thank you!

    “I have one of my kids here so I’m going to go and enjoy them… I have a smile on my face!”- take all the time that you need before posting again, I want this smile to remain on your face for as long as it will !

    anita

    #432635
    SadSoul
    Participant

    I now remember that shortly after I asked you if you use dressing on your salad, her (you know whose) disapproving, judgmental and accusatory voice said: of course she does not, dressing is for people like you who don’t appreciation elegant flavors! something like that. She was so very judgmental about people on an ongoing basis: too short, too tall, too thin, too … too loud, too quiet, what they wear, how they wear it, etc., and all this before passing judgment on what they say.

    I could have written this. Not about dressing but about so many things. I think I’m the ugliest misshapen person in the world thanks her. I didn’t think I should have accepted my bonus the other week because of her. I don’t ask for help or accept it because of her. I can’t relax in social settings because of her constant criticism, that dialogue. The one where, on the odd occasion I tried to tell her how much it hurt me, she slammed me on the face with ‘it’s true though.’

     I felt unusually calm one day, I think it was yesterday

    The two steps forwards one back, only usually it’s one step forward and nine back, but one is better than them all being backwards!

    Thank you for your message on my thread, I like it very much. As a matter of fact, it is making me smile right now, for the first time this Saturday morning.

    Every word is the truth so believe it.

    I am going to close this post with saying: it is possible that I will later scan this message in my mind, looking for something I might have said… 

    I hope you didn’t! There is no need to. Even if we disagree on something, each of our opinions, etc, are totally valid and worthy, and neither of us intend on hurting the other. Believe in this. If there are hurt feelings we both know ourselves, we can evaluate our own personal reaction, and share with the other how we felt if we need to. We live, love, do, and think differently and that’s okay! I understand the fear of losing someone, even someone I chat to online with, and imagine adventures of bear sized awesomeness. But what’s more important is that you know that if I was that easily offended, and didn’t give you the decency of an explanation, that would be on me; that would be a massive defect in me, not you. You’re more important than someone’s super sensitive reaction to something you don’t even know you said. If I believe that, so should you, and stop worrying yourself! Get out there and chase a bear, will ya? 😂

    I’m a little anxious about how I’m going to spread myself between all the work. First week in and it’s okay so far – ha, second day is so much proof it’ll be fine. I’m focusing on hopefully being able to save towards my big thing I want.

    Hey! I might fit right in, in your wild wild west! I don’t have a gun but I loved western movies when I was a kid. That’s a nice memory. My grandfather put them on the tv and we watched them together.

    How are you going? Don’t feel shy about sharing you and your life, I’m not judgemental. But also I understand not putting too much out there.

    I had a wonderful weekend. Had one progeny here who lives a lot less far away than used to, but still almost a country away, and another with their partner who lives locally. They’re wonderful progeny. I sometimes don’t know how the f*#$ I got so lucky. The youngest that moved to go father’s was the exactly the same so it was an utter shock he went. He messaged again too. It’s an odd emotional roller-coaster but I anticipated it would be. Oddly my emotions aren’t super intense, so no huge intense happiness and no enormous fall when he hasn’t responded and it’s days later.

    Have a lovely cup of something and put your feet up. One of the progeny and I went through a mulled wine stage, we’d make it ourselves. I can imagine us sitting around a fire, late in the evening, with our mugs of sweet spicy bliss. No bears, thanks!

    #432636
    anita
    Participant

    Dear SadSoul:

    I think I’m the ugliest misshapen person in the world thanks her. I didn’t think I should have accepted my bonus the other week because of her. I don’t ask for help or accept it because of her. I can’t relax in social settings because of her constant criticism..“- the legacy of a mother. No Mother’s Day card pay tributes to this kind of legacy.

    The two steps forwards one back, only usually it’s one step forward and nine back, but one is better than them all being backwards!“- I had a setback last evening, slept very little, very tired today and feeling off, better at the moment though. I got very angry at a person in real-life and then I sank into depression. I realized this afternoon that my anger was about seeking power (not a bad kind of power, but a just kind) in regard to this person, but then crashed into my lifetime mental state of powerlessness, as in not having any say in making things go my way. The depression that followed felt to be of the traumatic kind. Growing up (growing in) severely powerless is traumatic, (thanks.. Mom)

    Every word is the truth so believe it“- thank you, SadSoul.

    I hope you didn’t! There is no need to. Even if we disagree on something, each of our opinions, etc., are totally valid and worthy, and neither of us intend on hurting the other. Believe in this“- I read this and took it in. Again, thank you.

    I understand the fear of losing someone, even someone I chat to online with, and imagine adventures of bear sized awesomeness. But what’s more important is that you know that if I was that easily offended, and didn’t give you the decency of an explanation, that would be on me; that would be a massive defect in me, not you“- mmm… unlike the legacy left by her: easily offended, no explanation  allowed, and “justified’ for mercilessly offending me.

    Get out there and chase a bear, will ya?“- my first real, although small smile in this off, traumatic-feeling day (I might share about it in my thread, tomorrow). Talking about bears and chasing, a neighbor up the hill used to walk the route I walk (route 1) and was chased by a bear. Wasn’t able to walk again, too scared. Her husband bought her a treadmill so she could walk at home, safe from bears. Fast forward, she died (not bear-related). The husband, aware that I am indeed a walking legend in the area (a walking legend in my own mind, that is), gifted me her treadmill which sits (huge) in the sun room. Fast forward, the neighbor cut some trees on his property, one fell on him, and sometime later, he died. A couple from California bought his house and.. the only leftover from their house (that I know of) is my treadmill. Precious treadmill, thank you fine folks, much appreciated.

    I’m a little anxious about how I’m going to spread myself between all the work. First week in and it’s okay so far – ha, second day is so much proof it’ll be fine. I’m focusing on hopefully being able to save towards my big thing I want“- a treadmill..? Just kidding. It’s a good thing you wanting something of the positive kind (curious as always)!

    Hey! I might fit right in, in your wild wild west! I don’t have a gun but I loved western movies when I was a kid. That’s a nice memory. My grandfather put them on the tv and we watched them together“- I shot the sheriff, but I didn’t shoot the deputy.

    How are you going? Don’t feel shy about sharing you and your life, I’m not judgmental. But also I understand not putting too much out there“- let’s see, something else I can share…personal.. I don’t know.. the other day (could have been yesterday), you shared it was raining a lot where you’re at-  I googled different areas of the British-spelling parts of the world when it rained a lot.. nothing conclusive came up.

    I had a wonderful weekend. Had one progeny here… He messaged again too. It’s an odd emotional roller-coaster but I anticipated it would be. Oddly my emotions aren’t super intense”– wonderful weekend with progeny is a very good thing! No super intense emotions about the youngest’s latest messages is a good thing too. Stay Strong, even keeled!

    Have a lovely cup of something and put your feet up. One of the progeny and I went through a mulled wine stage, we’d make it ourselves. I can imagine us sitting around a fire, late in the evening, with our mugs of sweet spicy bliss. No bears, thanks!“- no bears here, at the moment, not indoors, that is,  and a glass of wine to my left..

    anita

    #432637
    SadSoul
    Participant

    Setbacks. Plenty coming thick and fast this week, it must be in the air, because I’ve had a few of my own too. I won’t go into too much detail but I’m struggling with default emotions, ones that I learnt to have as a child. Instead of having the confidence to say, ‘no, you’re wrong,’ I’m speechless and can’t find anything to say. I’m back in survival mode, trying to work out what I did or didn’t do, to save myself. Only I didn’t do anything. I’m hurt because I’ve been told I did something I didn’t do, I feel guilty, I feel scared. Why can’t I just stand up for myself? Instead I prepare for the beating.

    Sorry I’m not replying to anything just now. I’m in a bit of a bad place on my head and heart just now. But I will get there, just need to sort through which emotions are valid and which are the default ones I’m trying to move on from.

    #432664
    anita
    Participant

    Dear SadSoul:

    I’m struggling with default emotions, ones that I learnt to have as a child. Instead of having the confidence to say, ‘no, you’re wrong,’ I’m speechless and can’t find anything to say… I’m hurt because I’ve been told I did something I didn’t do, I feel guilty, I feel scared. Why can’t I just stand up for myself? Instead I prepare for the beating“- this is what my experience yesterday was about, the Powerless Default Emotion (PDE, just made it up). I am going to elaborate on it later, in hours from now, or tomorrow.

    Sorry I’m not replying to anything just now. I’m in a bit of a bad place on my head and heart just now…“- that’s okay, you not replying to me at this time. I hope that now, more than 10 hours after you posted, that you are in a better place, hopefully restfully asleep).

    anita

    #432672
    SadSoul
    Participant

    I googled different areas of the British-spelling parts of the world when it rained a lot.. nothing conclusive came up.

    LLolll. Your stalker talents aren’t as up there as they need to be. Luckily for me the weather has had a change of heart.

    Powerless Default Emotion (PDE, just made it up). 

    PDE works for me. Excellent acrinom.

    Jeez. The other employer (most senior one) phoned me, outside of hours, to say it was noticed I wasn’t in the highest of spirits leaving and that they don’t want me to feel like any of the things going on at work were my errors. In the midst of calming myself and getting my brain blocks in order, which I was doing okay with too, but that helped. They need to make their minds up! I think I’m going to maybe have to say something. I did say that if I make an error to tell me about it at the time rather than saving them up for months and loading me up with them. They did that, two errors in six months, that were genuinely errors when you deal with that much data occasionally two letters can get swapped around in your brain. Not errors I could go, ‘oh yes, if course, I did that wrong or omitted to do it, etc, errors where 502 and 505 got muddled up. And they get very upset about errors, so two was quite astounding!

    Aaah well. Onwards and upwards. I would prefer to be able to emotionally leave something like that with the ill informed person who’s responsible for it, but Mr take away is I didn’t fall apart, only felt a bit stressed. PDE didn’t get to rule the situation.

    I’ll wait to read about your events surrounding this.

    #432673
    anita
    Participant

    Dear SadSoul:

     “LLolll. Your stalker talents aren’t as up there as they need to be“- no. Just curious, Curious me.

    “PDE works for me. Excellent acronym“- thank you, I like coming up with acronyms.

    I’m struggling with default emotions, ones that I learnt to have as a child. Instead of having the confidence to say, ‘no, you’re wrong,’ I’m speechless and can’t find anything to say. I’m back in survival mode..  I feel guilty, I feel scared. Why can’t I just stand up for myself? Instead I prepare for the beating… Two errors in six months, that were genuinely errors when you deal with that much data, occasionally two letters can get swapped around in your brain… errors where 502 and 505 got muddled up. And they get very upset about errors, so two was quite astounding!…  I didn’t fall apart, only felt a bit stressed. PDE didn’t get to rule the situation“- Powerless Default Emotion didn’t get to rule the situation, well done, SadSoul! What you shared here helps me with developing my thoughts ahead.

    I’ll wait to read about your events surrounding this.“- I witnessed someone do something wrong, Again, and Against my interests, Unethical, being a pushy, passive aggressive person who clearly cannot be trusted. I felt a Rising Rage (RR) that overwhelmed me. And I said nothing to him.

    This is the point that’s becoming increasingly clear to me yesterday and today: the part of the anger that goes to rage, is the part that feels powerless to do anything to fix/ change the situation for the better, it’s the part that feels stuck in a wrong/ unjust situation.

    Let’s say you find yourself locked in a .. cold storage room, but you know how to pick locks, so you have hope to get out before you freeze. You put your skills into practice, and if all goes well.. voila, you are out of the cold storage room.

    But what if you are locked in there and you don’t have any possible way to get yourself out of there.. you PANIC, fear goes to panic.  Same with anger, when you feel powerless to correct a situation, anger goes to rage: I am stuck here and I can’t do anything about it, a double whammy!

    And with anger, there is, for me, for others, a feeling of guilt associated with feeling angry, as in, I am bad for feeling angry, and this guilt leads to (or adds to) powerlessness.

    I felt angry at this person, paralyzed in the feeling that there is something wrong with me for feeling angry, so I said nothing to the person who really did something clearly, undeniably wrong. Not having said or done anything to correct the situation, I felt angrier, enraged, and overwhelmed by the intensity of emotion, it was too much for me to endure.

    I have to fix my understanding of anger. It does not indicate that I am a bad person, it is not something I am guilty of. Anger has a valid purpose, to protect, to stand up for what is right and against what is wrong. Anger by itself, the emotion, is not abusive. It is necessary for survival of all species who get angry, not just humans.

    And then, to add to the complexity, there is the fear of other people’s anger: what will they do to me?

    I would like to come back to this later, and to read your thoughts about how my thoughts are connected to your experience with the two errors at work?

    anita

     

    #432687
    SadSoul
    Participant

    I witnessed someone do something wrong, Again, and Against my interests, Unethical, being a pushy, passive aggressive person who clearly cannot be trusted. I felt a Rising Rage (RR) that overwhelmed me. And I said nothing to him.

    This is the point that’s becoming increasingly clear to me yesterday and today: the part of the anger that goes to rage, is the part that feels powerless to do anything to fix/ change the situation for the better, it’s the part that feels stuck in a wrong/ unjust situation.
    You feel powerless because if you had raged as a child you would have been punished.

    But what if you are locked in there and you don’t have any possible way to get yourself out of there.. you PANIC, fear goes to panic.  Same with anger, when you feel powerless to correct a situation, anger goes to rage: I am stuck here and I can’t do anything about it, a double whammy!
    If anger and rage are just emotions you are feeling then you are the only person suffering from them.  There is something wrong with suffering from them because they hurt you, but there’s nothing morally wrong with feeling them – yup, I’m reading my own advice with one eyebrow raised because I’m no good at being comfortable with anger.  It frightens me when others express it and it makes me feel guilty and worthless.

    I would suggest that rather than it making it to the rage stage, try telling the person you do not agree with them, you’re not interested in having a disagreement, but that you don’t agree.  Walk away.  Be proud you spoke up because you would be standing up for yourself by doing so.  Standing up for yourself is the cure to anger, it’s the protective action that is appropriate to take.  It doesn’t have to be a big showdown, just acknowledging that you disagree to them is enough.

    And with anger, there is, for me, for others, a feeling of guilt associated with feeling angry, as in, I am bad for feeling angry, and this guilt leads to (or adds to) powerlessness.
    I feel guilty about everything so I understand how feeling angry makes you feel guilty.

    I felt angry at this person, paralyzed in the feeling that there is something wrong with me for feeling angry, so I said nothing to the person who really did something clearly, undeniably wrong. Not having said or done anything to correct the situation, I felt angrier, enraged, and overwhelmed by the intensity of emotion, it was too much for me to endure.

    I have to fix my understanding of anger. It does not indicate that I am a bad person,
    No, it doesn’t indicate you are a bad person, but as a child you would have been treated like you were bad if you got angry.  You learned to be your judge and executioner as a child in order to keep the peace as much as was possible, in order to survive.

    it is not something I am guilty of. Anger has a valid purpose, to protect, to stand up for what is right and against what is wrong. Anger by itself, the emotion, is not abusive. It is necessary for survival of all species who get angry, not just humans.
    Anger is a protective emotion, it motivates us to do what’s necessary to stay alive, but it also helps us do what is necessary to have boundaries with those around us.  The emotion is fine, but the action must be reasonable.  It’s people’s actions that give anger a bad name.

    If you were brought up in a good Christian home you probably were bombarded with obeying or you won’t go to heaven, God / Jesus won’t love you, etc.  To make things worse, women have a special place in religion, one that has absolutely no room for emotions, opinions, thoughts, anger.  Not only did I turn myself inside out to keep safe in the home I lived in, but I was constantly trying to be a good girl so Jesus would love me, maybe even save me.  But also save my mortal soul.

    And then, to add to the complexity, there is the fear of other people’s anger: what will they do to me?
    This is reinforcing of feelings of guilt because you know firsthand that angry people hurt others.

    I would like to come back to this later, and to read your thoughts about how my thoughts are connected to your experience with the two errors at work?
    I think we’ve both had our wings clipped and can’t express anger.  It’s trapped inside because, as children, showing it ended badly, and those around us who were allowed it hurt us while angry.

    Sometime last year I got a new neighbour took to parking on my lawn.  One day I got really mad because I couldn’t get out of my driveway, so I went and knocked on their door and said, ‘Can you not park on my lawn, please.’  I was quite furious.

    Afterwards I felt so guilty and mean.  I sat with myself and let myself feel the guilt and shame but not to go over why I was feeling it, just to accept I felt guilty and ashamed.  Then I asked myself if it was okay that someone park on someone else’s lawn, and the answer is no.  I asked myself if I acted inappropriately and I did not.  Then I asked myself if it was a life’s wish that I stood up for myself and it was, and I had just done that.

    I didn’t walk away feeling proud but I was able to put some of the guilt and shame where it belongs, nowhere, because there’s nothing wrong with asking someone to treat you with the decency you deserve!  I wonder if you might be able to tell this person, or another person you find yourself in a similar situation with, that you disagree and they don’t have to agree with you but that you disagree with them.  Disagreeing isn’t a deal breaker, you don’t have to explain yourself further or have an argument if you don’t want to, and you are entitled to feel it.  It’s liberating being able to quietly put it out there when your whole life you’ve been too afraid to speak up.  Practise makes perfect so it isn’t a powerful solution but it is one small step for mankind!  Also, soz for repeating a bit in this paragraph.

    So, a funny thing happened.  Obviously had to go to work again after the event, and at morning tea the employer that gave me a telling off, myself and one other were sitting on a couch.  That employer said, ‘all the big people are on the couch,’ which offended the other person sitting with us as they’re sensitive about their weight.  A bit of too-ing and fro-ing went on between those two, and when they were finished, the employer asked me what I thought of big people on the lounge.  I said, ‘Well, there’s two adults sitting on this lounge, and then there’s you, was how I took that,’ while I laughed.

    #432688
    SadSoul
    Participant

    My grammar is fairly atrocious in this, sorry.  An afterthought, even if you didn’t voice your anger, you felt it and acknowledged it, you recognised it was there to keep you safe from a dodgy person.  You don’t even have to say anything to that person if you don’t feel comfortable.  You might be able to be happy your inner self protected you by creating that emotion that caused you to feel a great distance between you and that person.  It served its purpose, that anger you felt, it took care of you.  The other emotions felt afterward, it growing into rage etc, they’ve got nothing to do with the initial feeling of anger you got, the protective emotion to keep you away from that person.  Those other emotions are protective too, the inner child trying to keep you safe, only you are away from the dangers she faced and don’t need to be kept safe in that way any more.  So even those emotions are protective, just now you can protect yourself, and you don’t need protecting from your mother any more.

    #432697
    anita
    Participant

    Dear SadSoul:

    I am impressed that you took the time, considering your very busy schedule, to write to me at such length, with the goal of helping me (please don’t do it again, or I’d feel guilty..)

    You feel powerless because if you had raged as a child you would have been punished“- I am not aware of this being a consideration of mine, as a child. I was punished for so many things, for all kinds of random things (a word I said, a word I failed to say, an expression on my face, something I did, something I didn’t do, something I allegedly felt, something I didn’t feel, there was no reason to her behavior, no rules, no structure to the madness. I mean, if I knew there was a rule: that if I didn’t express anger, then I will not be punished.. why, that would have been a relief, some structure to the madness.

    I found out at 21 or so, that her reaction to my anger was to submit, to withdraw: she ran towards me to hit me, I grabbed her hands in mine, pushing just enough to keep her from advancing, and her response: her hands lost all their strength and became flaccid in my hands. And she never again tried to hit me. I was so ANGRY that that’s ALL it took for me to stop her from hitting me years before.. I didn’t know. I felt very stupid.

    If anger and rage are just emotions you are feeling then you are the only person suffering from them.  There is something wrong with suffering from them because they hurt you“- I thought about it the other day and felt stupid about that too, suffering unnecessarily like I did.

    but there’s nothing morally wrong with feeling them – yup, I’m reading my own advice with one eyebrow raised because I’m no good at being comfortable with anger.  It frightens me when others express it and it makes me feel guilty and worthless“- it makes you feel guilty and worthless for receiving others’ anger, and/ or for feeling angry at others?

    I fear others’ anger and I get confused with mine, easily overwhelmed in real-life situations, cognitively and otherwise paralyzed, unable to evaluate situations and figure out what I need to do.. As a rule: no here-and-now problem solving skills/ assertion to be practiced.

    I would suggest that rather than it making it to the rage stage, try telling the person you do not agree with them… Be proud you spoke up because you would be standing up for yourself by doing so.  Standing up for yourself is the cure to anger, it’s the protective action that is appropriate to take.  It doesn’t have to be a big showdown, just acknowledging that you disagree to them is enough“- I intend to do this next time I see him do what he did the other day (I will visualize it happening so to prepare myself and respond in spite of the expected Paralysis and Overwhelm Factor (POF), and I will let you know when it happens, thank you!

    I feel guilty about everything so I understand how feeling angry makes you feel guilty“- ditto. A general Guilt about everything and everyone robs me from.. accurate, objective evaluation of specific people and situations in the here-and-now. Got to change this!

    No, it doesn’t indicate you are a bad person, but as a child you would have been treated like you were bad if you got angry“- I was treated like I was a bad person no matter what.

    You learned to be your judge and executioner as a child in order to keep the peace as much as was possible, in order to survive“- I learned to be quiet, to be hypervigilant about anything that may cause her to get angry at me, which was.. anything and everything.

    Anger is a protective emotion, it motivates us to do what’s necessary to stay alive, but it also helps us do what is necessary to have boundaries with those around us. The emotion is fine, but the action must be reasonable.  It’s people’s actions that give anger a bad name“- very well said. I came up with a term today (in another thread), Ethical Anger (any ideas for an acronym?)

    Not only did I turn myself inside out to keep safe in the home I lived in, but I was constantly trying to be a good girl so Jesus would love me, maybe even save me. But also save my mortal soul“- Sad Soul, Mortal Soul.. (this is the beginning of a new poem for you). I too tried to be a good girl so that my personal devil will love me.

    This is reinforcing of feelings of guilt because you know firsthand that angry people hurt others“-  feeling guilty for having the emotion behind the abusive anger that I witnessed. If I observed ethical anger growing up, I wouldn’t feel guilty for feeling angry.

    I think we’ve both had our wings clipped and can’t express anger… Sometime last year I got a new neighbour took to parking on my lawn.  One day I got really mad because I couldn’t get out of my driveway, so I went and knocked on their door and said, ‘Can you not park on my lawn, please.’  I was quite furious. Afterwards I felt so guilty and mean…guilty and ashamed…“- mistaking Ethical Anger for Abusive Anger.

    It’s liberating being able to quietly put it out there when your whole life you’ve been too afraid to speak up.  Practise makes perfect so it isn’t a powerful solution but it is one small step for mankind!“- one small step for anita-kind. Intent to practice, or in your part of the world.. practise.

    you’ve been too afraid to speak up… I said, ‘Well, there’s two adults sitting on this lounge, and then there’s you, was how I took that,’ while I laughed“- anita-kind wants to hire you as my speak up person!

    Thank you for your second post and for the time you took, for your insight, your wisdom and intent and effort to help me, greatly appreciated. Now, please rest and take care of my SUPER (Speak Up PERson) friend.

    anita

     

    #432704
    SadSoul
    Participant

    I have a picture in my mind if you holding your mother back. That was a brave thing to do. It made me wonder about the abusive people I know, I wonder if they’ve got anything to back it up when confronted by someone on their level? I’m not talking about a child, I’m talking about an adult who’s on their footing physically.

    Don’t feel guilty! Sometimes I get up really early so I can juggle my day – I have lots of things I have to take care of in my personal life, and some can be done morning, some has to be done at night, and sometimes I get up with the sparrows to get as much done as possible. Then I have time to marinate in online life, which is a blessing to me, to be able to talk to someone I relate to on so many things.

    there was no reason to her behavior, no rules, no structure to the madness

    Let’s go bop her in the head together. Seriously though, my stomach churned reading this, understanding in, and now a quiet pause, no thoughts, as the sick feeling of understanding flows through my body.

    it makes you feel guilty and worthless for receiving others’ anger, and/ or for feeling angry at others?

    Very much so

    I fear others’ anger and I get confused with mine, easily overwhelmed in real-life situations, cognitively and otherwise paralyzed, unable to evaluate situations and figure out what I need to do.. As a rule: no here-and-now problem solving skills/ assertion to be practiced.

    Me too. I sometimes wonder if it’s necessary for me to come up with intelligent words in these situations, etc, to express myself / defend myself. Is it really essential? Or is it okay for me to make a mental note that the person involved is a dick and to be avoided if possible? My mother is very confrontational – with those weaker than herself, I have realised upon reading your above – and I am not. If I confronted her on anything, she swiftly put me in my place with words of scathing judgement, however she turned that scathing judgement onto me if I didn’t confront other people / situations in my life. She made me feel so weak because I either chose not to because I recognised a pointlessness in it, or chose not to because I personally didn’t think it worthy of giving it her kind of attention. I was repulsed by how she dealt with situations like that. I think the shame instilled in childhood was compounded by her in early adulthood.

    Anyway, point I was making before I got so sidetracked: so we have to express anything when we’re angry? Surely it’s okay to recognise it, thank it for being there to protect us, and move on! This appeals to my gutless side!!! Actually, both sides of me are gutless!😂

    I learned to be quiet, to be hypervigilant about anything that may cause her to get angry at me, which was.. anything and everything.

    Me too. Oh how the progeny have no idea. Blissfully, they have no idea, not knowing what it is to not speak out when they disagreed etc!

    Ethical Anger (any ideas for an acronym?)

    I don’t. But then, RR sprang to mind: righteous rage 😂

    anita-kind wants to hire you as my speak up person!

    Occasionally I use words when I’m in a tricky situation. Once, very quietly and calmly, asked someone if they existed just to piss people off. Mostly though, I say nothing and bottle up how I feel hurt, always thinking I should be stronger and say / do something. I’m now wondering if I should react, or is it perfectly enough I felt something? If everyone acted out their emotions in some way, the world would grind to a halt. I’m going to sit with this idea that reacting in a tangible way might not be essential, but finding a way to rock how I feel rather than be sunk, how good would that be?
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Scuse typos, etc, hope this all makes some kind of sense. Ciao for now.</p>

    #432706
    anita
    Participant

    Dear SadSoul:

    It made me wonder about the abusive people I know, I wonder if they’ve got anything to back it up when confronted by someone on their level?“- most don’t. They target their children because their children are theirs (they have nowhere to go, no other home, other parents), they are smaller and weaker and dependent, and highly invested is seeing the best in their parents, taking on the guilt for the parent’s abuse.

    Don’t feel guilty!… I get up with the sparrows to get as much done as possible“- thank you. Sparrows are going to be part of my next poem to you.

    there was no reason to her behavior, no rules, no structure to the madness

    my stomach churned reading this, understanding in, and now a quiet pause, no thoughts, as the sick feeling of understanding flows through my body“- you write so well.. You are a poet and you don’t know it. Thank you. No one ever said anything like this to me.

    Me too. I sometimes wonder if it’s necessary for me to come up with intelligent words in these situations…  Or is it okay for me to make a mental note that the person involved is a dick and to be avoided if possible?“- avoid the d*** whenever possible. It’s when you can’t, or they keep coming back to haunt you, that you (I) have to speak up, and I will..!!!!!

    I will.

    My mother is very confrontational – with those weaker than herself“- like most abusers.

    If I confronted her on anything, she swiftly put me in my place with words of scathing judgement, however she turned that scathing judgement onto me if I didn’t confront other people / situations in my life“- she weakened you and then complained that you were weak. It’s like a person stabbing another and then complaining that their victim is bleeding.

    She made me feel so weak“- I wrote the above, about her weakening you before I read this part.

    “…Actually, both sides of me are gutless!”- funny, funny SadSoul.

    Me too. Oh how the progeny have no idea. Blissfully, they have no idea..“- good Mother SadSoul

    RR sprang to mind: righteous rage“- Righteous Ethical Rage: RERAGE. Perfect!

    Occasionally I use words when I’m in a tricky situation. Once, very quietly and calmly, asked someone if they existed just to piss people off“- if you are interviewing for the position of my SUPER, the interview is progressing well.

    I’m going to sit with this idea that reacting in a tangible way might not be essential… Scuse typos, etc., hope this all makes some kind of sense. Ciao for now.“- I am looking forward to your thoughts on the matter some time later, Your typos are scused, good reading from you this late afternoon (here), Good night (I assume it’s there).

    anita

    #432707
    anita
    Participant

    * Scuse my neglect to delete this sentence (a quote from my post before last): “there was no reason to her behavior, no rules, no structure to the madness“, and to boldface this sentence (a quote from your last post) “…Actually, both sides of me are gutless!“.

     

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