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Too invested in others- feeling tired of that

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Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 65 total)
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  • #450456
    anita
    Participant

    This is all difficult stuff, Milda.. the Anger vs the Empathy.. The Love vs the Anger..

    I wish I could be of some help to you.. however little.

    The contrast between caring too much.. And the need to survive that too-much-caring..

    You relate to what I am saying? (It’s okay if you don’t)

    If you do relate, let me know. Let me help you best I can.

    🤍🌿 Anita

    #450459
    Roberta
    Participant

    Dear Milda

    Your phrase – If I just come back to the old behavior, I would be extremelly unhappy, stressed for the rest of my life. But everyone around me will be very comfortable. I want to be happy. I really, truly want to be happy and free.

    If that was true then surely the people around you would already be happy as all your life as you bowed down to their wants time & time again They would not have been sad (mum) & sarcastic (dad). You can not keep people happy all of the time even a robot cannot do that. Investing your self worth in someone else’s bottomless pit does not bring about happiness to anyone no matter what you were told or believe.
    What I love about buddhism is it middle way approach – not sublimitating yourself entirely to your parents on one extreme or being totally self-obsessed & selfish on the other.
    Get a piece of paper & for a couple of minutes put aside your parents voices. How do you want to live your life? just write or draw what comes to mind. this might give you a starting point. Then put it down go for a walk have a cup of tea, come back & see what is your voice, ethics etc & weed out or amend any statements that do not truly feel authentically yours. Later you can explore ways of putting this into real life .
    Sorry my battery is about to go, but maybe I have ssaid enough anyway.
    best wishes
    Roberta

    #450460
    Milda
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    “you were in charge of meeting her emotional needs, while your emotional needs were not met at all”- you said this very exactly as it was/is. My emotional needs were never met. I was emotionally neglected, dealt with my problems alone, couldn’t share them, because I knew that reactions would be either no interest or blaming that I’m too sensitive/should not be scared etc. But when it came to parents- I always searched for ways to meet their emotional needs UNCONDITIONALLY. But meeting my needs by them was always conditional. Always. And conditions were not on my side, so I was left alone with my problems and my need for safety, acceptance and love.

    In terms of physical needs- yes, I had everything, we always had money, it was never a problem. Also no sexual, physical abuse. Just strong emotional neglect. Just feeling unseen. Feeling as being born for service, for making others happy, fulfilled and comforted. Absorbing everyones bad mood, problems and converting them into soothing.

    ” she also expected you to be in that role”- yes, it’s like this is an automatic thing, that I WILL help, WILL SOLVE, WILL overload myself with others problems. This is very sad. I never wanted to.

    “In other words, your mother’s emotional needs and preferences have overridden yours: her feelings are important, yours are not. And that’s the message she has been sending you all along, ever since your childhood. That’s the conditioning you were brought up with.

    Would you say this is true, Milda?” – absolutely. It’s even not that my feelings are not important. It’s as if they do not exist at all. Everyone is human except for me, that’s the feeling.

    I’m seeing therapist every 2 weeks, it helps, but after I’m left with my own decisions, my problems, this “hanging” situation with my parents about how to continue the communication with them, so that I do not become this stressed, over functioning person.

    Right now it feels as if it’s impossible to have a peaceful relationship with parents. They want answers from me, they want to know what happened and the saddest part is that I could try to explain, but they will never understand.

    I truly am as lost as I have never been in my life. I’m happy that I was brave enough to stop communicating to parents, I’m happy that I see the reality fully, understand codependency, parentified child that I’m, over-functioning and so on. I’m very very happy for that, it’s that the lack of ability to see my next step is crushing me.

    Happy to be able to communicate with you <3

    #450461
    Milda
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Yes, very very difficult.

    It’s also a relief, a start of a healthier me, but at the same time it’s very foggy and scary place.

    The lack of ability to see the next step now that I have stopped communication with parents is crushing me.

    If I could only be able to know small next step or knowledge in general, which would be a foundation for my thinking, for my decision making, like a compass, it would be very helpful…

    Happy to be able to communicate with you <3

    #450462
    Milda
    Participant

    Dear Roberta,

    Hi, so happy to see your message! Thank you for spending time writing to me 🙂

    You are very right- if it was only who could make another person happy, problem-free, my parents would be acting differently. They are not happy people, they are doing their automatic behavior and nothing changes.

    I have done the writing work, I can very easily indicate what I want, how do I want to behave, how do I want for my life to look like. But I get very sad and scared at the same time, because I have no idea how to reach that, no idea how to become this person. I then I become unmotivated. So hard to know how you would like your life to be, but not knowing where to start, how to start and how to build a support system, a healthy one this time. And parents will always be, their voices will always live inside of my, that’s what scares me the most. I was raised by them, I am the product of their dysfunction and fear.

    Can’t feel nothing authentical about me. It’s either what they have said to me, my automatic behavior learned because of them or fear for change. It’s only such selection of living.

    Happy to communicate with you <3

    #450471
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda:

    I am happy to communicate with you too, Milda. Thank you for giving me this opportunity!

    “I always searched for ways to meet their emotional needs UNCONDITIONALLY.”- you loved them unconditionally. You are and always have been a loving daughter. I can tell you are a loving person overall by the attentive, kind and appreciative ways you respond to those of us who respond to you, here on your thread.

    “But meeting my needs by them was always conditional. Always. And conditions were not on my side, so I was left alone with my problems and my need for safety, acceptance and love.”- the fact that they didn’t love you back in the ways that matter most does not take away from the fact that you loved them so much and for so long.

    “Can’t feel nothing authentical about me”- I think that your loving nature is very much an authentic part of you!

    “If it was only who could make another person happy, problem-free, my parents would be acting differently. They are not happy people, they are doing their automatic behavior and nothing changes.”- your authentic, unconditional love for them did not bring any positive change in them.. it made no positive difference in the ways they think, feel and live.

    Not because you loved them wrong, but because they didn’t take in your love. It met their surface, but never their depth—it slid off them like oil on Teflon. Do you agree?

    “my problems, this ‘hanging’ situation with my parents about how to continue the communication with them, so that I do not become this stressed, over functioning person. Right now it feels as if it’s impossible to have a peaceful relationship with parents. They want answers from me, they want to know what happened and the saddest part is that I could try to explain, but they will never understand… The lack of ability to see the next step now that I have stopped communication with parents is crushing me.”-

    As I see it, you are indeed in a “‘hanging’ situation”- neither here nor there- neither in regular communication with your parents, nor in a cessation of communication. It’s like you are still on the phone with someone, on a pause. You didn’t hang up the phone yet.

    What if you hang up the phone, that is, make it very clear to them that you will not be communicating wit them at all- not directly and not indirectly- for the next two years, let’s say. It’d give you a significant breathing room. You can put as much love into this kind of clear, assertive message. Ask them to respect your choice, make it clear to them tat you are struggling and need this break from them for your mental health.

    Not that I have reason to expect them to respect your assertion (from what you shared about them). This message would be still about your love for them, but also about your love for yourself.

    What do you think/ feel about my suggestion?

    🤍🌿 Anita

    #450473
    Milda
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    This sounds like a good plan, but for a short period only. I do not want to run/hide from them. I want to be assertive with them, to say no when I want to, to state boundaries, to end the call on my terms and to do everything, I was never able to do. Only this will give me strenght and ability to live my life to the fulliest.
    Not talking for X period will only make me postpone the real deal. The real change that needs to happen.
    I just do not know how people start behaving differently with their family, when they decide to. My new behavior will raise only many questions for my mother, she will fight to get the old me back, because old me was comforting and enabling her, fixing for her, caring for her. Her fight will include all of the biggest buttons in me- through guilt tripping, making me a bad daughter. I believe this small segment about the guilt tripping for grandmother shows the way she behaves. And she can do much more un order to soothe her anxiety about my behavior. I’m scared to face it, because for me mother=guilt.

    #450474
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda: I will read and reply by tomorrow, take care!

    #450483
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda:

    First thing, it is your choice whether you take a break from your mother or not. Absolutely your choice.

    Second, I so relate to your story! For me, “mother=guilt” can easily be the title of my story.

    Third, I will share more of my story with you in regard to this prediction you made less than 5 hours ago: “she will fight to get the old me back, because old me was comforting and enabling her, fixing for her, caring for her.”

    I was so sure that once I cut contact with my mother she would fight for me, that is, she would fight to get me back! I was absolutely sure! I thought she couldn’t live without me in her life.

    I cut contact, got a birthday card from her six months later, and then… NOTHING. 12 years of nothing. No fighting to get me back, not even a tiny battle.

    What I realized was that for so long, I couldn’t live without her. I believed I couldn’t, so I projected this belief-feeling into her- thinking she couldn’t live without me.

    It was just a projection, and an inaccurate one.

    My story is that of unrequited love. I loved her. She didn’t love me back.

    I am not angry about it anymore. She simply didn’t have the capacity, had a very traumatic childhood and a very difficult life.

    But Truth remains: unrequited love.

    🤍🌿 Anita

    #450484
    anita
    Participant

    I should add: she was so important to me that I thought I was equally as important to her. Yes, she repeatedly shamed and guilt tripped me, but I thought that underneath it, she loved me.

    Looking back, when someone repeatedly shames and guilt trips another person for years, even decades.. there’s no love underneath 😔

    #450491
    Milda
    Participant

    Dead Anita,

    So hurtful to read your story, no child should ever go what you went through… I think it illustrates very well how we, as children, can be 20,30,40,50 years old, but inside operate still as this 5 year old child and idealise relationship with parent, paint the reality differently than it really is.
    I’m thinking on writing letters to both of my parents, because everyone is hanging now. I won’t be telling them all of these psychological things we talk about here, I want to write simply, clearly and free myself. I never acted as an adult with them. I was always acting out of the compulsive, automatic, chilhood programs. I want a change in this at least.

    #450492
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Milda,

    thank you for your kind words. I am happy to communicate with you too ❤️

    I do not want to run/hide from them. I want to be assertive with them, to say no when I want to, to state boundaries, to end the call on my terms and to do everything, I was never able to do. Only this will give me strenght and ability to live my life to the fulliest. Not talking for X period will only make me postpone the real deal. The real change that needs to happen.

    You’re right, Milda, that the best would be, on the long run, to develop inner strength and determination, which will allow you not to feel guilty even if your parents guilt-trip you (which they will), and not fall back into the old patterns, but manage to keep your boundaries.

    In order to set external boundaries and be able to keep them, we need to first develop inner boundaries. You need to be clear within yourself that their accusations are not true, that their view of you (as someone who is obliged to cater to their needs at all costs, even if it goes against your own well-being) is NOT reality. You need to develop that clarity within yourself before you can actually set boundaries with confidence and without feeling guilty.

    Years of conditioning have made you accept your parent’s false reality and their false image of you. Where you are a bad daughter for not obeying their wishes, for not abandoning yourself to please them. This false reality needs to go.

    And of course, it requires deep, transformational healing. It’s not something you can fix easily. But that would be the goal: to develop a new, healthy image of yourself, based on the truth of who you are, not the false reality your parents have been projecting onto you.

    You said that whenever you tried to set boundaries, you were shamed and guilt-tripped:

    During my whole life, when I had situations where I said “no” and my parents guilt tripped me for that, said something shameful, insulting

    You said this about your mother:

    Her fight will include all of the biggest buttons in me- through guilt tripping, making me a bad daughter. I believe this small segment about the guilt tripping for grandmother shows the way she behaves. And she can do much more un order to soothe her anxiety about my behavior.

    Which tells me that she is capable of saying pretty hurtful things to you, in order to make you do what she wants. Would that be true?

    My emotional needs were never met. I was emotionally neglected, dealt with my problems alone, couldn’t share them, because I knew that reactions would be either no interest or blaming that I’m too sensitive/should not be scared etc. But when it came to parents- I always searched for ways to meet their emotional needs UNCONDITIONALLY. But meeting my needs by them was always conditional. Always. And conditions were not on my side, so I was left alone with my problems and my need for safety, acceptance and love.

    Is this how both of your parents reacted to you expressing needs or sharing something that was bothering you? Did you feel that both of them had no interest in it and/or blamed you for being too sensitive? Because that kind of behavior (neglecting or denying the child’s feelings, blaming the child instead of soothing them), as well as conditional love that they were giving you – is typical for narcissistic parents.

    And I think that too plays a role in deciding what the best strategy of dealing with them would be. I think that at this point it wouldn’t be the best idea to write them an honest letter, baring your soul, expressing your vulnerability, because it may be used against you, and may cause you even more pain.

    You said they want answers and explanations. You can tell them that you need some time to gather your thoughts and come back to your center, because you feel quite overwhelmed at the moment. That you need some time away from everyday stress, which you will use for self-care and recharging your batteries, and that you would appreciate if they would respect that.

    If I were you, I wouldn’t be too honest with them at this point and bare my soul completely. I’d be more vague. You can still write those letters to yourself, but don’t send them as of yet, because as I said, it may end up causing you more pain than relief at this point.

    Let me know what you think?

    #450495
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Milda:

    There’s something I thought above before getting to the computer this very early Thurs morning (here). It’s about what you wrote yesterday: “old me was comforting and enabling her, fixing for her, caring for her.”-

    I was thinking that your self-esteem may be tied to this role of comforting- enabling- fixing- caring (CEFC, if you will 🙂). This may be a rope in the elephant story we talked about. If you end this role, this source of self-esteem will be gone.

    I know how frustrating, exhausting this role has been for you, a source of great suffering. Still, the times- however temporary- when she seemed comforted or fixed- those were rewarding experiences for you, and we people are motivated to do what it takes to be rewarded.

    And now, to your most recent post: thank you for your empathy!

    “I want to write simply, clearly and free myself. I never acted as an adult with them. I was always acting out of the compulsive, automatic, childhood programs. I want a change in this at least.”-

    Here’s a potential trap: elevating the CEFC role from the compulsive, automatic level to the adult level, with the idea that at the adult level, you’ll be more successful at CEFC.

    “I want to write simply, clearly and free myself.”-

    At a very young age, when you were a young child- before the shaming and guilt-tripping- you naturally reached out to your parents simply, clearly and freely. You were simply, clearly, as all young children do (pre-trauma). How did they react?

    I agree with Tee that “it wouldn’t be the best idea to write them an honest letter, baring your soul, expressing your vulnerability, because it may be used against you, and may cause you even more pain.” (Tee’s words, I am quoting this sentence because it’s perfect).

    As a young child, you naturally bared your soul and expressed your vulnerability, and they used it against you.. didn’t they? Better you don’t expose the child-within you to the same at this time.

    If you would like to, you can write these letters here, in your thread, because here, you are way, way safer, emotionally than you are with your parents.

    I am looking forward to reading your thoughts, and I respect your choices on the matter, whatever they may be.

    🤍🌿 Anita

    #450496
    anita
    Participant

    edit: At a very young age, when you were a young child- before the shaming and guilt-tripping- you naturally reached out to your parents simply, clearly and freely, as all young children do (pre-trauma). How did they react?

    #450512
    Milda
    Participant

    Dear Tee,

    Wow, insight about first developing inner boundaries before setting the external ones cought me. It made me think how this internal base is missing in me. Parents are projecting on me their decision about when I al a good daughter, when I am a bad one, which behavior is acceptable and approved, which is not. But those projections are all that I know. If they believe I am bad, because I did not soothe their emotional problems and did not solve their issues, how then I should find facts for myself, that in MY REALITY, I am not? Everything I can think off washes away, because none of the arguments that come in my mind are strong enough to withstand parent’s opinion…

    Regarding parents’ reactions to my problems (as much as I can remember), my mother would be preoccupied with her problems and did not show interest in trying to soothe me or make me feel better and my father is the “stone” one, he used to say be strong, do not be sensitive, there are bigger problems in world etc.

    I think you and Anita are right regarding the letter. If they were not able to hear me when I was a child, in my most vulnerable stage, how can I expect this from then now. I want what’s best, most peaceful for me.

    ❤️

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