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Ukraine/Russia/My anxiety and anger

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  • #393980
    pink24
    Participant

    Hi Everyone,

    Is there anyone obsessed what is going on in Ukraine? I am extremely angered by this. Not worried, but ANGRY. I’d like to know if anyone feels the same way, and how they are coping with not obsessively checking the news every 5 seconds.

    I justify this to myself that we as a world are in a very serious moment right now, that anything can change at any moment. Isn’t it natural to want to know?  But I also know my anger can’t be healthy for me.  How do I balance wanting to be informed and not feeding my anger? Is there such a thing?

    Honestly, the situation in Ukraine triggers in me memories of all the smaller situations I’ve been in where I’ve been perceived as weak – either based on my gender, my kind demeaner, my very thin frame –  and the abuse I’ve fought against my entire life. As if who am I to have the right to live my dreams, make my own choices, to be paid fairly at work, or want my family to support my choices as I’ve supported theirs?   It seems like I’m always fighting for the basics.

    The memories of the actual events are gone, it’s not like I relive them, but the anger is there. The feeling is my heart and solarplexus, the pain of someone feeling like they can just TAKE from me, as if I don’t even exist.

    I feel like Zelensky is fighting for all of us, and I really want him to win. It’s like I want my faith to be restored, I want to know that Good CAN triumph over Evil. Because in my life, it just hasn’t looked that way. It seems that the good people always lose – jobs, love, whatever–and that the evil people get to go home to their nice houses and it’s like business as usual. Ugh. Gross.

    Any advice would be welcome!

    Pink 🙂

    PS I’m an American living in New York, which probably has something to do with it.

    • This topic was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by pink24.
    #393985
    Peter
    Participant

    Thanks for posting Pink

    I’m not obsessing, or trying not to, but also find my myself triggered and angry. I just don’t understand why and have no advice as I try to work out my emotions.

    Has anyone watched the Game of Thrones? How everyone was so disappointed by the ending. All that scheming, all the wars, all the killing and in the end nothing changed (other the their were a lot less people).    The world was not a better place, peoples lives were not improved…. What was the point?  Of course that may have been the point War is absurd.

    One person, one of the wealthiest in the world and this is what he decides to do? For what?   Imagine if the man would have turned his attention on making the lives of his people better instead of robbing them.  I suspect that’s why he hates the Ukraine – they chose independence and the lives of the people were getting better not a good example for the Russian people…

    Sorry venting, but sometimes venting helps

     

    #393988
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Pink24:

    Honestly, the situation in Ukraine triggers in me memories of all the smaller situations I’ve been in where I’ve been perceived as weak… and the abuse I’ve fought against my entire life. As if who am I to have the right to live my dreams, make my own choices… the pain of someone feeling like they can just TAKE from me, as if I don’t even exist” –

    –  Powerful!

    One of the reasons Putin invaded Ukraine was that there are millions of Americans currently prepared to vote Putin’s admirer Trump back into the white house in 2024. Only a week ago, after Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, Trump referred to Putin and the invasion of Ukraine as “genius”, “wonderful”, “savvy” and “pretty smart“, admiring Putin for invading Ukraine: “He’s taking over a country, really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people and just walking right in“.

    * Having read your August 2018 thread, I figure that you see Ukraine as you, and Russia as primarily your abusive mother… Mother Russia, so to speak?

    I feel like Zelensky is fighting for all of us, and I really want him to win. It’s like I want my faith to be restored, I want to know that Good CAN triumph over Evil.” – standing up against abuse and oppression (evil) makes one a hero. Let us all be heroes and stand up against oppression: privately, in the context of our own families, and publicly, against the rising autocracy worldwide.

    As Martin Luther King Jr said: “Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed”.

    anita

    #394033
    pink24
    Participant

    Anita–DANG, girl. You got my number. Holy crap. Yes, I suppose I have demanded my freedom, just by virtue of living without contact with my mother or the siblings that enable her. But why is there still this part of me that wants to punish them?  How do I get rid of that? If you have the magic answer, I’m all ears. You are batting 1 for 1 so I don’t doubt you 🙂

    Also, I really hope that those Americans who voted for Trump see that if he was in office now, the US would be funding what will basically be genocide in Ukraine. I really hope they actually get it now and move on from trump. He needs to be over.

    Peter – Omg, vent AWAY. It actually does help. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one who’s having an experience right now. It’s seriously insane how one crazy person has all of this power. And, he’s lying — flat out lying. His ambassador to the UN literally has the balls – excuse my language, but maybe we’re passed niceties– to show up to the UN and give a speech defending Russia, iafter Zelensky gives his speech – in fatigues –  from Ukraine, with bombs going off in the background and reports of children dying.  Beyond words.   Russia should be kicked out of the UN for this. It’s so insane.

    #394070
    anita
    Participant

    Dear pink24:

    I will be back to you Wed morning. I am not clear about your questions for me in the first paragraph. Maybe you can explain it to me before I return in about 10 hours from now?

    anita

    #394077
    HoneyBlossom
    Participant

    Hugs Pink,

    I think anger is justifiable about this situation.  I find myself checking a couple times throughout the day.  My personality is such that I struggle to be angry, and am instead I am a depressive.  In many situations, I turn anger onto myself.  I am working to be positive, and supporting actions which support the Ukraine.  I’m relieved that Australi a will give $50 million to Ukraine towards defence. We are close allies of USA, and will support US efforts. I can’t know if your anger is because if your abuse, but it’s good to see that you choose not to be like the abusers, and call them out.

    Our own prime minister deserves to be brought down a leg or too.  He was so star struck when he met Trump that it was sickening.  Then when he came home, he said Australia would not follow international bodies (meaning the UN) and would promote our own interests and resolve situations.  This us because of longstanding protests against asylum seekers in detention, and Is govt are in breach of their human rights as defined by UN.  Some if the asylum seekers have been shut off in detention for 8 years. It cost a a RIDICULOUS amount of money to keep them in detention.

    Unlike Zelinski, when our country was burning to the ground, which was partly his fault because of climate change denialusm, and his slashing of funds allocated to firefighting, well our of It prime minister went to Hawaii for a holiday. He is a horrible person.  He has made so many rotten decisions like Trump dud.  Trump is his hero.

    I still hold onto hope that the International community coming together will resolve this matter, and Out in will be called to face the International Criminal Courts for war crimes and crimes against humanity.  It’s not just Out in, his generals should be charged as well to reduce the likelihood of anyone thinking they can replace Putin, and take similar actions.

    I’m praying Putin is removed very soon, and that Ukrainian people and the rest if the world can be safe.  XXXXX

    #394099
    Peter
    Participant

    I liked Martin Kimani from Kenya UN speech.

    Putin’s desire to return to a time when ‘Russia was Great again’ is a good example of why getting stuck in ones past and attempting to  return to a time that has passed is such a unhealthy approach to life. We need to come to terms with our past but not try to recreate it as if one could step in the same river twice – “No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it’s not the same river and he’s not the same man.”

    Putin had every opportunity to improve the lives of his people but he chose to steel from them instead. Even he and his minions didn’t trust Russia as they took the money they stole out of Russia. When I hear of men like Putin I always have the same  question – Why? What’s the point

    Martin Kimani

    This situation echoes our history. Kenya and almost every African country was birthed by the ending of empire. Our borders were not of our own drawing. They were drawn in the distant colonial metropoles of London, Paris, and Lisbon, with no regard for the ancient nations that they cleaved apart.

    Today, across the border of every single African country, live our countrymen with whom we share deep historical, cultural, and linguistic bonds. At independence, had we chosen to pursue states on the basis of ethnic, racial, or religious homogeneity, we would still be waging bloody wars these many decades later.

    Instead, we agreed that we would settle for the borders that we inherited, but we would still pursue continental political, economic, and legal integration. Rather than form nations that looked ever backwards into history with a dangerous nostalgia, we chose to look forward to a greatness none of our many nations and peoples had ever known. We chose to follow the rules of the Organisation of African Unity and the United Nations charter, not because our borders satisfied us, but because we wanted something greater, forged in peace.

    We believe that all states formed from empires that have collapsed or retreated have many peoples in them yearning for integration with peoples in neighboring states. This is normal and understandable. After all, who does not want to be joined to their brethren and to make common purpose with them? However, Kenya rejects such a yearning from being pursued by force. We must complete our recovery from the embers of dead empires in a way that does not plunge us back into new forms of domination and oppression.

    We rejected irredentism and expansionism on any basis, including racial, ethnic, religious, or cultural factors. We — We reject it again today. Kenya registers its strong concern and opposition to the recognition of Donetsk and Luhansk as independent states. We further strongly condemn the trend in the last few decades of powerful states, including members of this Security Council, breaching international law with little regard.

    #394112
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Pink24:

    I have demanded my freedom, just by virtue of living without contact with my mother or the siblings that enable her. But why is there still this part of me that wants to punish them?” – because you are still hurting.

    You are still experiencing the pain that your mother caused you, your “toxic mother“, as you referred to her back in August 2018. You shared at the time that while visiting her, she abused you and your father who was suffering from Alzheimer: “her abusive attacks have become too much… Any word I say sets her off, and I am … the perpetrator, and she is the victim… I’ve witnessed her abusive behavior towards my father, helpless as he is. I’ve intervened. But ultimately, I realized there is nothing I can do about protecting my father from her…  I’ve told my sisters about my mother’s abusive behavior towards him… but they’ve done nothing. Actually, I don’t think they even believe me. They see a completely different side to her than I do” –

    – fast forward 3.5 years, the evil, guilty Putin invades the good, innocent Ukraine, and the whole world (other than Trump) feels certain about who is who:  the perpetrator is Putin, and the victim is Ukraine; the villain is Putin, and the hero is Zelinsky. This is a very clear situation, different from the confusing situation of your childhood home: your mother presented herself as your victim but in reality, she was your perpetrator. Add your sisters to the confusing mix: they were on the side of the perpetrator, not believing the victim!

    Why is there still this part of me that wants to punish them?” – partly perhaps because you are still confused about who is who?

    Back in 2018, you asked: “I am at a point where I’m wondering how to protect myself. Do I never go home again? But then, I lose my father!…  But I feel that if I do, I subject myself to the pain and abuse of my mother. Not to mention, I am angry that she has abused my father as well. It’s been about six years of this cycle, and I feel I’ve had enough. I’m 40 years old. I want to be happy. Do I have to write them both off, to save myself?” –

    – Yesterday was the 6th day of the invasion into Ukraine by Russian soldiers conscripted to follow Putin’s orders (Russian soldiers are Putin’s victims as well). Should a single abused Ukrainian citizen venture into Russia, knock on Putin’s door so to visit a Putin’s family member? Not so to save the family member, mind you, but to… just visit?

    You asked me yesterday, regarding your anger: “How do I get rid of that? If you have the magic answer, I’m all ears” – I need to make sure that I understand what anger you are referring to exactly, and what is the nature of your current contact with your mother and siblings?

    anita

    #394119
    pink24
    Participant

    Hey Honeyblossom! Nice to hear from you! Ugh your PM sounds like a total douche. Is he still PM? Can you guys vote him out? I have no idea how the politics work in Austrailia. I always had the impression that your country had it’s sh-t together, esp during Covid. But, I guess no country really does. Look at us. We actually elected Donald Trump.

    Peter– I appreciate the thoughts of these diplomats, they do get it. I want them to act! In a video call with the European Parliament, Zelyenskyy literally tossed the paper on his desk and was like, “I’m not going to read from anything, we’re done with paper. We’re in real life now. We’re talking about surviving.” Something like that. I feel like anyone with power needs to be like that. I’m not sure what country you are from, but here in the US I was glad to hear so many congress people be like, “Ok, what else can we do here?” I haven’t seen that kind of energy in our congress in a long time. I hope something has an impact, b/c Ukraine is so outmatched. Ugh Putin is so evil.

    #394121
    pink24
    Participant

    Hi Anita,

    Thanks so much for this analysis. The current state? Well, I haven’t spoken to my sibilings since 2012–except for a few sporadic times, nothing notable except the incident in 2018 you are referring to. As for my parents, since 2012, I’ve gradually lessened contact, spoken sporadically. I spoke to my mother in January, and I just felt that was the end for me.

    Since 2012, I’ve built a new life for myself from scratch. But I still have this lingering pain–like right in my heart–and I feel like it’ll be with me forever. Like some part of me will always feel rejected, and unworthy of love–even though intellectually I know that my mother and older sister suffer from some kind of undiagnosed mental illness, which my other sibling refuses to see. How do you get out of pain, Anita? How do I turn the page, I mean REALLY turn the page, so that all of me looks at my past with empathy and forgiveness?  I know that’s the only way to be free, but dang it, it is really hard.

     

     

     

    #394122
    HoneyBlossom
    Participant

    <p style=”text-align: center;”>Hugs Link.  My mother was undiagnosed as I was growing up, and wasn’t until much later that she was diagnosed with severely unstable bipolar disorder and for a long time could not be controlled with meds.  She spent around a year in a psychiatric institution and had multiple treatments of electric shock therapy.  She has been in aged care facility now for a number of years.  Not sure I have answers though I do emoathasise.  My older sister has a very aggressive personality and I just cant be around her much because sooner or later, she will manipulate for a nasty fight – not just with me.  Sorry you have been through this.</p>

    #394123
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Pink24:

    You are welcome. I feel that I have so much to say in response to your recent post and will say it in about 12 hours from now, first thing Thurs morning, when I am bright eyed and bushy tailed!

    anita

    #394133
    pink24
    Participant

    Hi Honeyblossom,

    You know what’s funny? No one in my life has ever said that until now–“sorry you have been through this”.  Thank you for that. Really. It means a lot.

    It’s so funny how an online chat can make a difference in someone’s life 🙂

    Pink

     

     

    #394140
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Pink24:

    The current state? Well, I haven’t spoken to my siblings since 2012–except for a few sporadic times… As for my parents, since 2012, I’ve gradually lessened contact, spoken sporadically. I spoke to my mother in January” – you are still in contact with your siblings and with your mother, less contact, sporadic contact, but still contact.

    Back in 2018, you asked: “how to protect myself. Do I never go home again?” – my answer: yes, never go home again.

    When you go back to your abusive mother (and abusive sibling) for more abuse, it doesn’t matter if you do it daily or sporadically. The child within you, the core and beginning of who you are, knows that you will take her again to her abusive mother (in-person or on the phone), so she remains hurt and angry because… there will be a next time, a next visit.

    Your child-within needs to know that you are taking her emotional safety and emotional well-being seriously, that you are taking the abuse she suffered seriously and therefore, that you will never again place her in contact with her abusers.

    Imagine being the mother of a little girl who has been abused by your mother (her grandmother). Your daughter does not want to see the face of your mother, nor to hear her voice. You say to her: we are going to visit grandma, she says: No, I don’t want to! And you say: it will be for just a little while, it’s only once a month, etc., and I’ll be there with you to protect you. She says: but it still hurts me when we’re there, her voice, her face, her touch, all remind me of bad things.

    Since 2012, I’ve built a new life for myself from scratch. But I still have this lingering pain–like right in my heart–and I feel like it’ll be with me forever. Like some part of me will always feel rejected, and unworthy of love” – you built your new life with the old abuse still in it, sporadically, from time to time. As a result, the pain lingers, the feelings of rejection and being unworthy of love… these linger. They are maintained by the maintained contact with abuse.

    “–even though intellectually I know…” – you know what you know intellectually, as an adult, but the only knowledge that matters when it comes to emotional health, is the emotional knowledge that we acquired in childhood.

    I know that my mother and older sister suffer from some kind of undiagnosed mental illness” – this is intellectual knowledge acquired in adulthood, which has no bearing on the emotional knowledge acquired in childhood.

    Which my other sibling refuses to see” – if they saw the diagnoses you are referring to, it will not change their emotional knowledge either, for the same reason. About refusing to see, what is it that you are refusing to see? Is it that you are waiting for your siblings to believe you, so that you can believe yourself?

    How do you get out of pain, Anita? How do I turn the page, I mean REALLY turn the page, so that all of me looks at my past with empathy and forgiveness?” – the key in this quote is “all of me“. All of you needs to be in this together. As is, not all of you believes you. Part of you is waiting to be believed.

    Back to the imagery of a mother taking her little girl to visit grandma: the little girl tells you, I don’t want to see her, her face, her voice reminds me of bad things! And you say to the little girl… what is it that you say to her?

    I’ll tell you what I said to the little girl in me when taking her to visit my mother: if you don’t visit mother, you will be a bad girl! She did so much for you, how dare you not see her? How dare you be angry at her, bad girl! It was your fault anyway, you were not born right, you gave her too much trouble, poor mother, how unlucky she was to have you.

    When my mother was getting old, I said to the girl: she is getting old, how sad, don’t hurt this poor, old woman by not visiting her! At one point, the little girl said back to me: but I am getting old too, look at my face, I am old too, when do I get mercy? When do I get what I want?

    The little girl in me wanted to live free and away from my mother since as early as I can remember. I crossed the world and lived away from her since I was 25, but I kept calling and kept visiting and those contacts drained me. There was never a limited-enough, short-enough visit. I didn’t know at the time, but each visit meant that I disrespected the abused child within me. My mother’s face, her voice, and worse, her touch, all these kept me sick. She didn’t have to be abusive to sicken me: her softness sickened me. It’s like getting sepsis from eating leftover noodles, if you recover, you feel sick looking at noodles, no matter how fresh they may be.

    I know that’s the only way to be free, but dang it, it is really hard” – I finally ended all contact with my mother, last phone call was in March 2013. It took a lot longer to convince the child within me that really, really, we will not visit her again. I promised her. She didn’t believe me. She felt guilty. It was really hard. But finally, free at last. Finally, I believe me, finally, I matter. Finally, I have a new, correct emotional understanding, emotional knowledge acquired in adulthood.

    anita

     

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
    #394148
    pink24
    Participant

    Hi Anita,   This makes SO much sense. Thank you. Yes, yes, yes. There is a part of me that still wants to be believed. And you’re right, I have to respect the abused girl in me. That’s the most important thing. Why do anything that sickens her? You’re right, it doesn’t matter if the visit is for a minute – the idea is to keep the little girl away. To protect her.

    I think there is so much shame in this society when it comes to cutting off contact with one’s mother.  I think that’s partly why I don’t talk about it to my friends–they’re mothers and I feel like they would judge me in some way. OR like I’d be the weird girl who doesn’t talk to their mother. But it’s ok to cut off a father? Meaning, I never hear anyone shame someone for not talking to their father.

    Thank you Anita for understanding. I feel like you are a safe place. I am really sorry you had to go through this too.  Your insight has really been illuminating for me. I feel guilty though, like I wouldn’t have wasted so much energy had I completely cut off contact earlier. I guess I wasn’t ready to let go of my father, and was willing to take scraps. UGH!

    Pink 🙂

     

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