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  • #438689
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    My husband gave me permission to do what I need to do to regulate my emotions. It’s basically the break situation again. He didn’t want me to do it before because he was afraid I was trying to end the relationship.

    He’s not taking me putting boundaries in place very well.

    It is hard having to be strong and deal with things by myself. I hope that it will help though. I wish that things weren’t so hard. It is difficult because getting out of this pattern between us requires complete emotional self control.

    Love and best wishes, always! ❤️🙏

    #438694
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Helcat:

    Thank you for the Always being just for me, it makes me feel special.

    Three posts ago, you wrote: “I’m not upset. You haven’t done anything wrong. You have been kind and helpful“- if this was my mother’s message for me, my life would have been something very different: a life spent living, thriving instead of a life spent dying, withering (isolated, depressed, troubled, dysfunctional).

    I wanted to understand better the situation between you and your husband, so I went back  and came across something you shared back on to May 25, 2022: “I had an argument with my husband… My pattern is to feel defensive, explain that I’m hurt and how to improve feedback in the future. I seek reassurance from my husband that he didn’t mean to hurt my feelings… I am hyper-vigilant, looking for signs of abuse… Now that I’m aware of the specific trigger I can remind myself that the situation is different. I’m safe, loved and not going to be physically abused because I didn’t do something perfectly“.

    Recently, Sept  28, 2024: “My feelings get hurt sometimes and my husband can tell even when I don’t say anything about it. And he wants to talk about it and I don’t and that makes him angry that I don’t want to talk to him about it… I have just been shutting down at the slightest hint of conflict… he is hurt by me withdrawing. And he acts out when he’s hurt“.

    Oct 12, 2024: “My husband gave me permission to do what I need to do to regulate my emotions. It’s basically the break situation again. He didn’t want me to do it before because he was afraid I was trying to end the relationship. He’s not taking me putting boundaries in place very well“- as I understand it (another vastly sleepless night significantly slows down my thinking), you needing time for yourself (time-out) when you feel hurt/ triggered is the right thing for you to do: for yourself and for him, for the relationship. Unfortunately, he feels threatened by your healthy coping mechanism (time-out)/healthy  boundary setting, and feeling about-to-be-abandoned, distressed, he acts out (.. how?)

    Your trigger has been the thought that he meant to hurt your feelings/ that he may be abusing you, and his trigger is the thought that you may be abandoning him. So, his pattern has been to pursue connection with you just when you need a break from connection (time-out).

    And when he pursues a connection with you while you need time-out, he further distresses you.

    Psychology today/5 Ways That Fear of Abandonment Threatens Relationships: “Many with fears of abandonment also have an insecure attachment style, where they may become anxious, avoidant, or vacillate between both extremes, especially when their fears surface… Having a fear of being abandoned can wreak havoc on a person’s romantic relationships, where they can come off as ‘clingy’ or become possessive or manipulative as ways of trying to prevent their inevitable fears from surfacing…

    “While there are many ways a fear of abandonment may show up in a person’s romantic relationships, five of the most common ones include: 1. Difficulty letting others in. Many who have experienced abandonment in their formative years have built up emotional walls to keep others out…

    “What is feared the most is also the antidote for overcoming a fear of abandonment, which is to be comfortable being alone. Many with deep fears of abandonment cannot be alone. Time alone may trigger an inner critic or may spiral a person into self sabotage…  In healing from this pattern, it becomes necessary to face your past and recognize where these kinds of wounds started and how they have affected your life…”

    If I understand correctly, that his Fear of Abandonment gets triggered by you shutting down and needing time-out, I wonder if he’s working on this fear in individual therapy.

    anita

    #438700
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    You are very special! ❤️ I’m sorry to hear that you haven’t been sleeping well again. I hope that tonight is easier.

    It is hard to suffer from the far reaching effects of child abuse.

    I don’t know what my husband is covering in his therapy. I wouldn’t ask about such a private thing. He has started to take breaks during disagreements for himself since starting therapy. I am hopeful that as he appreciates the benefits for himself, he will understand the behaviour more, feel less threatened by it and be more open to me taking breaks.

    Thank you for sharing all of your thoughts and the information on fears of abandonment.

    He tends to want to continue disagreements and arguments for too long for me. He is a naturally loud person, so raises his voice sometimes. He tends to follow me if I try to walk away. He tends to threaten to leave me and say mean things when he’s angry. He never used to say things like that before. It’s been hard.

    Love and best wishes, always! ❤️🙏

    #438711
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Helcat: You are very special, I am, your husband is.. equally very special. We all need to treat each other as very special while we agree and disagree on this or that. Respect first, Love and best wishes, first, always! ❤️

    Will reply further Sun morning, dear, precious Helcat.

    anita

    #438716
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    I agree. I have made my mistakes too.

    There is an update to that situation with my husband’s female friend.

    She complained to my husband about me politely setting boundaries with her “Please don’t talk to my husband about your sex life. Thanks” was what I said and I also reassured her and comforted her.

    She tried to manipulate him. She said that I attacked her. That I was trying to get rid of her and that I would try to get rid of other people he cared about next. She said that I was worse than her abusive husband.

    My husband told me about this and when I asked if he defended me he lied and said no.

    I snapped and told her that I changed my mind about her offer not to speak to him. Something that she suggested before and I previously turned down. I told her that it wasn’t okay to disrespect people’s wives because she was having a breakdown.

    It turns out that he lightly defended me and said that I wasn’t usually like this.

    He has been angry about this. I can understand why. She was a friend. I have been at my limit with everything for a while.

    After the sex life discussion I told him that I wouldn’t tolerate any disrespect from her. And she went and behaved like that. I know that what I did wasn’t right, but things are hard enough without her interfering.

    Love and best wishes, always! ❤️🙏

    #438717
    Helcat
    Participant

    It is hard for me that he struggles with setting boundaries. I can understand why he cares about people and had a childhood where he wasn’t allowed to set boundaries with family.

    I’m a loyal person. I have ended friendships because people showed a romantic interest in me or because they were rude about him. I even set boundaries with my adopted mother because she said that she didn’t want to see him. I said that if you don’t want to see him, you don’t want to see me. I don’t let people disrespect my husband.

    #438721
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Helcat:

    She complained to my husband about me politely setting boundaries with her “Please don’t talk to my husband about your sex life. Thanks” was what I said and I also reassured her and comforted her. She tried to manipulate him. She said that I attacked her. That I was trying to get rid of her and that I would try to get rid of other people he cared about next… It turns out that he lightly defended me and said that I wasn’t usually like this. He has been angry about this… It is hard for me that he struggles with setting boundaries… I’m a loyal person. I have ended friendships because people showed a romantic interest in me or because they were rude about him… I said that if you don’t want to see him, you don’t want to see me. I don’t let people disrespect my husband.“-

    – for crying out loud, this is wrong! I am sorry you’ve bee going through this unnecessary pain. Of course it’s disrespect of you and of your marriage: active disrespect on her part, and mostly passive disrespect on your husband’s part (allowing her in his- and your life).

    I have a better understanding now of his struggles with setting boundaries. He has been letting her have power over himself and over the marriage, power that does not belong to her!

    Sorry, Helcat, have to be away from the computer sooner than expected, be back to you tomorrow.

    anita

     

    #438722
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    Thank you for your understanding! I hope that you have a good day. I look forward to talking more tomorrow.

    Love and best wishes, always! ❤️🙏

    #438727
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Helcat: Just got back home: you are welcome, and thank you for the Always! Be back to you in about 12 hours from now.

    anita

    #438743
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Helcat:

    You are welcome, always! Again, I am sorry that you’ve been experiencing difficulties in your marriage for quite some time.

    “She said that I attacked her. That I was trying to get rid of her and that I would try to get rid of other people he cared about next. She said that I was worse than her abusive husband“- her message, paraphrased (addressing your husband): it’s me and you (and everyone in your life) against the enemy (Helcat)!..?

    It turns out that he lightly defended me and said that I wasn’t usually like this“- wait, he meant that you are not usually like this, but sometimes you are like this (like this= attacking, trying to get rid of people he cares about, being worse than her abusive husband)?

    My husband told me about this and when I asked if he defended me he lied and said no“- could it be (it distresses me to ask this) that he feels that her accusations are sometimes true?

    Please correct me if I am grossly misunderstanding the situation. My intent is to help a bit, not to add to your distress. So, if this conversation distresses you, please let me know and we will not continue it.

    He tends to want to continue disagreements and arguments for too long for me. He is a naturally loud person, so raises his voice sometimes. He tends to follow me if I try to walk away. He tends to threaten to leave me and say mean things when he’s angry. He never used to say things like that before“- never before because of his friend’s recent input.. in addition to the extra stress involved in parenting with no outside help?

    About him threatening to leave you, you wrote a couple of weeks ago (Sept 28): “He also explained that he doesn’t really want to leave, and the threatening to leave comes from a place of trying to push me away before I push him away“, which made me think that the feeling behind his threats is fear. Most recently, I was thinking fear of abandonment, but now I am thinking that there is more anger than fear behind his threats, anger that you shut down and walk away during conflicts.. angry that you talked to his friend.. anything else that angers him..?

    You are very special!“- thank you. I liked it that in a reply to another member, following our special-exchange, you wrote to the member that he is special.

    I’m sorry to hear that you haven’t been sleeping well again. I hope that tonight is easier“- I think that I figured out why I stay awake for hours during the night: I THINK and thinking awakens me and keeps me awake. Last night, after thinking (about my communication with you, among other things), I repeated the words “silence” and “hush” and that led to eventually going back to sleep and sleeping longer than many nights before.

    I am looking forward to your reply, and again, if the discussing the topic with me distresses you, please let me know.

    anita

    #438753
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    Thank you for being gentle with me. Your questions are fair, you are just trying to better understand the situation.

    My understanding of her is that she is known to have a bit of a temper.

    My husband empathised with her feeling attacked because I reached out to her instead of letting him handle the situation. He was upset that I didn’t let him handle things, which I can understand. I’ve never done that before. I shouldn’t have.

    He never used to say mean things before the baby.

    It has been difficult for a while, not just because of the baby, post postpartum depression, lack of support and sleep deprivation. The baby was unplanned and it took him a while to adjust to the idea of being a father. At the same time as the pregnancy we had to deal with a lot of stressors. A visa, homelessness, moving to a new house, a pet dying. At the same time, I was having a breakdown.

    For most of my life, I was afraid of having a baby because of trauma. During the pregnancy, I was afraid of breastfeeding, I was afraid of seeing infant nudity in a parental care role, I was afraid of labour, I was afraid of being a bad mother.

    Because of his beliefs in Traditional Chinese Medicine, he took on this idea that he was not allowed to argue with me or it could affect the nature of the baby. He resented not discussing his feelings during the pregnancy.

    Then after the pregnancy, the birth was quite traumatic. Which caused conflict and the arguments began. Then my IUD failed and that caused more arguments because he was afraid of having another baby. We argued about general stuff like sleep, childcare and housework responsibilities. I had difficulties with intrusive thoughts in my son’s early life that caused difficulties too. It took me a long time to recover from the birth too. My husband was upset because he felt left out of the decision making process with our son too.

    They say that 90% of couples argue after a birth and 50% of relationships fail because of one. It has just been a lot of stress to deal with all around. If your partner has postpartum depression, you are more likely to get it too. I think that we both have it.

    We are both just very fed up. Life has been hard for a while and the arguing makes things even harder. He misses his family a lot. Even more so, now he has a child. He wishes that they could help. He wishes that they could have more of a relationship with his son. He misses his friends.

    I was inspired! ❤️

    That is a good tip that thinking keeps you awake. I will have to try to calm my mind and go back to sleep too. I hope that this new discovery makes sleep a lot easier for you!

    Love and best wishes, always! ❤️🙏

    #438755
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Helcat:

    You are welcome and thank you for reassuring me that my questions are fair. I’ve been trying to understand because I was thinking that if I  understanding better, I can help you understand better: being IN a situation sometimes makes it difficult to see what someone who’s not in the situation can see.

    “Because of his beliefs in Traditional Chinese Medicine, he took on this idea that he was not allowed to argue with me or it could affect the nature of the baby. He resented not discussing his feelings during the pregnancy”- why does discussing feelings necessitates arguing, I don’t understand.

    “We argued about general stuff like sleep, childcare and housework responsibilities”- again, I don’t understand why there’s arguing instead of discussing.

    “Life has been hard for a while and the arguing makes things even harder“- my point.. arguing is a negative, harmful dynamic within a relationship that’s supposed to be intimate.

    “He misses his family a lot. Even more so, now he has a child. He wishes that they could help. He wishes that they could have more of a relationship with his son. He misses his friends“- you are his family, you are his friend!

    How complex we human beings are, how simpler I wish life was. This is why many people prefer pets over humans: simplicity, much simpler modes of communication, no vast vocabulary with many thousand of words and combination of words which complicate things, leading to so many misunderstandings.

    Here’s a thought: what if you and your husband, instead of addressing problems since the pregnancy, what if you start from the beginning, have a Beginner’s Mind (a Western-Buddhist concept): re-start the beginning, when Helcat met the man she was to marry, go back there, to the beginning, and start over.

    You went through a lot of very difficult times as a child, and difficult times recently. It’s amazing how strong you are, Helcat: a strong woman/ a strong person! Trust your personal, inspirational (in my mind) strength, express it, and may your husband find refuge in it.

    anita

     

    #438756
    anita
    Participant

    Adding: I will be repeating the words Silence, and Hush instead of going wild with sleep-incongruent thinking tonight, hoping for a second night of better, much needed sleep. One more thing, on the dental front: cancelled my appt with the dental clinic I am dissatisfied with, and I have an appointment with a different dental clinic later this month.

    ❤️and best wishes, always- back to you,

    anita

    #438759
    Helcat
    Participant

    Hi Anita

    I agree, that is a good idea. Thank you for helping me to understand our dynamic better!

    He was able to discuss some of his feelings, some things don’t become an argument. I think the arguments happen when we disagree and also, if either of us have bottled up our feelings. If there is stress, or fatigue that tends to add to it as well. We don’t always disagree, so if there isn’t a disagreement it doesn’t turn into an argument. Recently, we are arguing about arguing. We are both stubborn, so that is a factor too. Poor communication, often turns things into an argument.

    I think that we try not to bother each other and try to live with difficulties until it hurts. Trying to tough it out and see if things improve. When things go on for a long time and there is no improvement, that is when it becomes an argument. It is true, we should tell each other what we need before it gets to that point. I think because things have been so difficult, we try not to inconvenience each other and in doing so, inconvenience each other. But yes, it ceases to be a conversation about communicating a simple need and instead is a conversation about being hurt that a need isn’t being met.

    Not taking breaks when we are hurt is what escalates things.

    I agree, arguing has become very harmful.

    I have always liked animals better than people. It’s true. Our son is easy because he is in that group of non-verbal, no stress.

    I’m glad to hear that you found a different dentist! I hope that your experience is better next time around.

    It is hard for me to start from the beginning at the moment. My PTSD is quite bad right now. My mind is a bit out of control. Sometimes . I have difficulty managing my thoughts, feelings and reactions.

    A positive step is that my husband has started letting me take breaks when I need them. I think that I am not taking breaks soon enough yet because I still worry about his feelings and try to hang in there and communicate with him to make him feel better.

    When I am in control of myself. I use the communication techniques recommended by our couples counsellor and things go better. My husband doesn’t try and use them without my guidance yet. This is something that I think needs to change.

    Love and best wishes, always! ❤️🙏

    #438760
    Helcat
    Participant

    I hope that you get some sleep! ❤️🙏

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