Dear Murtaza:

This post will be particularly spontaneous on my part. I am committing to not edit this post, so whatever word I type (unless misspelled)- I will not change. Also, I will respond to one part of your post and after that read another part attentively and respond to that part (like I did before).

* I wrote to you that in my communication with you, I am somewhat flying, and you wrote: “I wonder why? I have some assumption to why, but I don’t like to assume stuff when I can simply ask the person“- the first thought I had when I read what you wrote here, quoted, was to tell you that you are brilliant, brilliant in capital letters. In my mind, you are brilliant! The next thought was/ is: this is why I shared my last post with you and with no one else, meaning I had you in mind, talking to you (I know this is a public forum). Anyone else, everyone else would have made assumptions, assumptions that would have terribly annoyed me and cause me to regret I ever shared this stuff. (Perhaps almost everyone else).

Not being hindered by untrue/ partly true assumptions.. I am able to fly! When burdened by untrue assumptions, the bird is too heavy to rise up into the air and fly.

* I wrote to you about my childhood fantasies of being famous, dancing, singing, acting in front of audiences of millions, and you wrote: “I think this desire comes from the unmet needs of this young female, to be seen and acknowledged, to be important in the eyes of people, to be loved“- true. This need was extremely unmet, so the fantasies were about this need being met to the extreme.

“you are kinda famous here, and you are liked by the members (I suppose?), but its only because you help them (another assumption), not because you are you, you want more then that(another assumption)– here your assumptions are not completely true, they are partly true and partly not. But I am not annoyed because you stated “another assumption”, and you asked: “I suppose?”. You presented an assumption for me to consider, accept or reject. (I must remember this when I communicate with members, to not be too confidant in regard to my assumptions).

“you are kinda famous here“- not true. When I turned on the computer this morning, you are the only member who posted. When members post, most I think search the internet for the topic that bothers them and they somehow find the website- nothing to do with me. There is no such thing as scores of people looking for my thoughts and advice. So, no I am not famous here or anywhere.

“you are liked by the members“- I doubt it. Sometimes, maybe. Not liked by others. When members express appreciation for me, I like that very much, sometimes. But I know that some members are polite and gracious and their compliments are a matter of style, not a matter of spontaneous sincerity.

“it’s only because you help them (another assumption), not because you are you, you want more then that” – About helping members, I am even less optimistic than I am about being liked by members. It is very, very.. very difficult to help members who suffer from serious mental/ emotional problems in any context, including in a professional setting. Of course it is .. extremely difficult to do in this setting- even if I was a professional, it would have been extremely difficult, or better say- improbable. Members who live in an abusive situation- after reading my posts, or while reading- they are still in those abusive situations. They need someone to walk into their home and help them out. Online advice is impotent. Otherwise, at times I help members feel better, but that is all: feel better for a little while.

About wanting more- to be understood, comes to mind, to not be argued against, for someone to be on my side.. to not be alone anymore. This is what comes to mind.

* “I feel like the word ‘compliment’ has been used to mean ‘saying nice things to people even if its not true’, but I’m guessing you know that I don’t do that (lol)“- I was aware of the topic when I wrote to you, and I even verified the definitions online: flattery is a word that suggests insincere compliments. The word compliment does not suggest insincerity. At the time I wrote to you yesterday, when I chose compliment and not flattery, I suspected that maybe I was receiving flattery from you, but I put this suspicion away as not-likely enough to consider at this time.

* In my last post to you I wrote that you are brilliant, and you replied: “Thank you, just to be sure (lol) do you mean overall or there is something specific? Just to know what I did to get this compliment (lol)“- I mean extremely intelligent, in my experience, exceptionally intelligent. You are able to see through a person, to remove a person’s pretenses and arrogance and expose what’s inside. I noticed this not only in your communication with me, but with others.

* In response to my sharing about being hit on the face, you wrote: “This actually makes me sad, a bit frustrated, because this happened to you, and that I can’t change it, that it’s outside of my control, to hear this abuse without having power to do anything. Sometimes, when I remember my loneliest time, I would imagine there is a person with me, and he comforts me, holds me, have you ever had such thoughts? What was the scenario I wonder? (again, skip if its too personal)“- thank you for offering that I skip it, this offer indicates that you are gentle, not only brilliant but also gentle (which is brilliant in itself).

I can’t tell you how many times years ago, when I talked to people irl about my mother, their response was about her, about what made her hit me, that she was sick or whatnot. Their response was not about me. Those responses burdened me further. You didn’t respond that way. I didn’t read yet the rest of  your reply, and I so hope you will not shift your attention from me to ..my mother.

Thank you for your attention to me in that scenario and your empathy. As to your question: when I was alone with her, or better say, when she was around, I don’t think that I was able to imagine there being another person with me- she wouldn’t have allowed it, not in real life and not in my imagination. She was too loud, too intrusive, too violent. When she was not there, when I was alone, it was then that I imagined someone with me: I remember that as a teenager I imagined love stories where I was together with a male fantasy figure. Unfortunately, because of her violence, physical touch is often associated with something bad, it alarms me, makes me angry. But there were times when nothing felt better than a hug, to be held.

* “I would imagine that even thinking of this is a bit taboo, that your mother, the best mother in the world, that has no husband, and yet works for her only child, provides for her, so whenever you thought she is the problem, you would feel guilty of that thought, your logic and mind made you feel guilty and ashamed, “how dare you even think of that?” The thing is, that mothers are highly valued in society, doesn’t matter if they are bad“- I agree with every word, couldn’t have said it any better. Your reply is going so well so far, I still dread just a bit that “mothers are highly valued in society, doesn’t matter if they are bad”- that this attitude will not show up in the rest of your post. This societal attitude.. reminds me when she screamed and hit me at night, I couldn’t understand why the neighbors were so quiet, none interrupted what was happening, ever. The attitude was that if it’s her child, she is allowed to do as she pleases.

This is a very long post, I am processing it bit by bit, no editing, no erasing. I hope you are okay with this.

* I wrote to you about the conflict/ mental torture/ internal fight within me, and you wrote: “I would guess that at first and for a long time, she would win, but when you started to not care about her, to not value her that much, the conflict get less and less“- for the longest time I didn’t care, or so I thought, I was extremely angry at her, I hated her. I think that it helped me survive, but I was very troubled all along, and the conflict remained to this very day, it is only recently that it is less, and in this very post, I am trying to lessen it even more. It is this very conflict that hinders me more than anything else. A voice within me, a societal/ normie voice says: she is your mother, she was a good mother, you are making things up, you are lying, you.. you.. you are the problem, a bad girl, disloyal to her mother.

* I wrote to you that she repeatedly threatened to kill herself, and you replied: “I would imagine that you loved her even if she was bad to you, and that you blamed yourself for that, she blamed you even“- she blamed me at length, built arguments against me, pointing to what I said/ didn’t say, do/ didn’t do in the previous month, let’s say, and how those things were part of an evil plan I had all along, for the whole month, to bring her to a boiling point.. (how crazy it is to think that a child was interested in bringing her mother to a boiling, violent point, yet that was her detailed accusation).I knew at the time that her detailed accusations were not true.. but it was the emotional experience, not the (nonsensical) intellectual experience that was so terrible- to see, hear, feel ALL THAT ANGER directed at me. Her anger was convincing, not her explanations.

“I would imagine that you loved her“- she murdered my love for her, and then, my love for her resurrected as the “living dead” from that movie- is my best image of my love for her: a love-corpse moving around clumsily, making strange grunting sounds.

* I wrote to you that she said it was something I said, etc. You replied: “How did you feel back then? What was your response? I would imagine you being afraid of talking, you being afraid of just existing next to her, that even if you don’t talk, she will blame you for it“- I felt fear, dizzy, weak, cognitively disorganized (wording I didn’t have then), angry, tired, scared. She was big and angry back then, she had big, strong hands, I was short and thin, she was loud, she said: I’ll kill you, I’ll break you into many small pieces (translated)- I didn’t want that pain, of course.. I wanted to hit her back, I don’t remember.. scared and angry, I would say.

* “She is very narcissistic I see, she not only controlled your action, she even wanted to control your thinking“- thank you for the anger I perceive in this sentence, anger at her.

* Next thing you wrote: “I am very sorry anita. I feel both hate and anger towards the person who did this to you, and empathy and affection for you“- I was right! You did feel anger right above. Thank you. It just occurred to me as I put that “.” after the “Thank you”- that I .. (I am searching my memory), I don’t think any person in my life, ever, expressed anger at my mother except for you, particularly in the context of her interactions with me.

I was always alone with my anger toward her.

Even the great therapist I had 2011-2013, I don’t remember anger in him, anger at my mother for how she treated me. All I got in my life was people feeling empathy for her.. no empathy for me, or at the most, I got empathy for me and for her. No one took my side against her.

And at this point (I am still typing spontaneously, no editing other than grammar in your quotes and spelling in my typing)- I really hope that there is no empathy for her in the remaining of your post, which I didn’t read yet… I just did, impatient, not wanting to take more time- good, yes!!! No empathy for her- THANK YOU!

Now, I will re-read my post to you, not edit anything, and then write my concluding thoughts for now…

I am back (still not editing)- I wrote earlier that her anger at me was convincing, ANGER in capital letters… All along, to this very point in my life, none of the irl people, aunts, uncles, cousins, sister.. none of my family members expressed anger at her. As I just wrote “my family members”, I wanted to correct it to “her family members”- because they were on her side, never against her, or better say: some were angry at her, there were fights between them, but NONE, EVER was angry at her for how she treated me. Neighbors and acquaintances are included. When I finally complained to people who didn’t know her about how she treated me- they too did not express any anger at her. Fast forward all the way to my therapy ten years ago- he also did not express anger at her for the way she treated me.

And so, I was uninterruptedly alone feeling anger at her. To add to it: people criticized me for being angry at her. The normie attitude is: thy shall  not be angry at your mother, and if you are angry- forgive, let it go, move on.. now!

I needed, looking back, someone to come in that small apartment were I lived, and get angry at her, ANGRY. The absence of anger validated the thought that she did nothing wrong. It made me doubt that anything wrong was done.. for if it was Wrong, how can it be that no one is Angry?..

This is what you did for me in your recent post: you did something that I don’t remember to have ever been done before- you took my side against her, getting angry at her.

You wrote some time ago that my reply was satisfactory for you. Your reply is very satisfactory to me. Thank you, a lot. I hope all this will be absorbed in me, it takes time. This has been a long post. Feel free to not respond to everything I wrote, to choose this or that and reply to those things, if you choose to reply further (I never take a reply for granted).

anita

Dear Murtaza:

I noticed that you posted last night, more than 12 hours ago, but I didn’t want to read what you wrote, not until this morning, after I answered a couple of other members- because my communication with you at this point is different from what I ever had in the over six years of daily posting here. It is more personal to me than ever before, gets me involved in ways I didn’t want to get involved before. I never trusted anyone here to help me with my most personal topics. I never posted to be helped, not wanting what (I gladly refer to, in this context) normie-responses that advocate that I forgive my mother, that she did her best.. and all along, denying the reality of what happened.

Part of me feared yesterday that you will turn against me, that you will.. drop this gentle, supportive empathetic “mask” and reveal the aggressive, cruel monster inside. This fear carried on from last night to this morning as I postponed reading your recent post. I didn’t read it yet. What I wrote so far, and what I will continue to type is not edited, just like yesterday. I will read part of your recent post, respond to it and keep going.

Before I begin, one more thing: I didn’t rush to read and respond also, because I wanted to give it time to be absorbed, what already happened here, recently on your thread, what we talked about most recently.. what seems to be Murtaza helping me. Trusting you, trusting you enough to place you in the position to possibly hurt me, to possibly betray my trust in you. And now, to your post:

“As I read your post, especially at the end ‘no one felt angry at her’ ‘you the only one who did’ ‘everyone criticize me for that anger’, I teared up, it was a long time since I felt this way“- you got it, the most important element in my previous post to you. You are amazing.

“I understand anita, every time I tell people a little about my life, they immediately assume the rest of it, not only that, but they are sure that this assumption is true, in my post to you, I never made an assumption that I’m sure it’s true unless you confirm it. (I admit I made some bold assumption in the past in our conversation, and for that I’m sorry)“- thank you. I too made bold, incorrect assumptions about you (and about other members). I am sorry for that too.

“The first time I saw what you do here, I liked you very much, because you dedicate time and effort for every member, your detailed replies showed how you much care about everyone, and that I thought everyone sees you that way, and that everyone (like me) waits for your next reply“- I am smiling right now for the first time this morning, you-are-a-sweetheart was my first thought as I read this part.

“Sometimes I wish that I can practice this gentleness, though I can only do little through words“- I can feel your gentleness, it makes me feel good right now. I didn’t sleep well last night and didn’t feel good until now.

I can imagine how very fortunate (and I mean it, I am not just saying this to be nice) a young woman would have been to experience your gentleness irl, right there, were you are, in a different context than your younger sister does.

“What I understand from this is that she controlled your mind/imagination when you were around her, she was like the devil (in Islam devil lives in everyone of us and he whispers us to do bad things) only she was worse, I can’t imagine you living like that everyday“- a very non-normie response, thank you!!!

“I was criticizing valuing mothers like that, because it gives them so much power… Everyone who you told about your mother, either empathized with her, or gave her excuses, no one was mad at her, no one hated her, she did this to you, because society allows this. If there was a law that stops her from being her, you wouldn’t have suffer that much, there is a reason why we have laws, to stop some people from being themselves“- perfectly said.

I wrote to you about the two voices in my head, one saying that she was a good mother etc., and you replied: “I understand, its now two voices against this, yours and mine“- I want to take in this line, this idea, this sentiment into me, breathe it in. When that other voice speaks, maybe I can say to it: Murtaza and I are against you, case closed, and silence can follow.. (?)

I wrote to you: “she murdered my love for her, and then, my love for her resurrected as the ‘living dead’ from that movie.. a love-corpse moving around clumsily, making strange grunting sounds”, and you wrote: “So much anger in this sentence, I’m impressed how well you said this“- I didn’t notice it was anger until you pointed it out.

* At this point I am amazed by how brilliant you are, this is all mind boggling to me, I never, NEVER expected to be helped in this way, it is as if an angel has descended on me with all his wisdom, an out of this world wisdom and ability to perceive, to understand so perfectly.

“I would imagine that you wanted so much, so badly, to someone to release you from her, to intervene and stop her, but no one did, because its ‘YoUr MoThEr’“– she was god, but a bad god, like you said, a devil. It alarmed me just now to say “devil”, but Murtaza said so, two voices against one!

“You not only were abused but no one even acknowledge that little thing, that simple and small thing, and you wished for so long that someone would just be angry at her, just be angry, its makes me so sad“- I didn’t understand what was missing (one other person to get angry at her) until you.

“When I first heard ‘she slapped me’ I immediately hated her, and was mad at her, and I would think this is the least she did, but I’m bit surprised (I don’t expect a lot from normies) that no one hated her, hated what she did, was angry at her, it feels like the normal response to any sane person, that this gentle and nice person right here were treated like a slave”–

– thank you. She had that extreme “good” persona for everyone else, extremely kind and generous and full of flattery. Although I did see her fight on once occasion with one of my elementary school teachers. I don’t remember much other than her screaming on the school grounds. I understand that she hit that teacher. ALL the school students were watching the scene that seemed to go on forever. I was very embarrassed. I don’t remember how I felt going “home” with the crazy woman.

* I just felt guilty saying “the crazy woman”. Do you want to give me your Voice on this (maybe I can have two-against one on this one)? Maybe this will help for background: she heard that that female teacher, a music teacher, referred to me as (I forgot.. I remember, she called me “auntie”) something somewhat disrespectful, so her response was to ascend to the school grounds getting that teacher outside the classroom and going about screaming/ hitting her or whatnot while all the children were watching. (No police was called.. I don’t think, quite sure, I don’t remember police existing where I lived).

“No one felt your pain, no one validate your feelings about her, and you thought that you must be wrong, the evidence is everyone tells you are wrong, the whole world tells you to respect your mother, even if she is bad, to forgive her, how could that voice, that little tiny voice inside you beat the whole world? You wanted people to be angry at her for what she did to you, not other reasons, because then you would know that they know you are suffering, you just wanted that, them to know, what a simple thing to ask“- interesting that the only quality psychotherapist I ever had didn’t say what you said here. What do you know.. he too was too much of a normie. I see it now. He didn’t help me as much as he could have if he was you.

“Of course they did, they have good mothers“- as I read this, I thought, no they/ many probably have bad mothers but they are not aware or fully aware of it, and then I read the continuation of the above: “/ not aware of their bad mothers because society brainwashed their values and beliefs to not see the ugly truth“- yes, yes, yes!!!

“This reminds me of something (although this post is mainly about you, though if don’t mention this I don’t think I will remember again in the future), I remember that when my father was alive, he used to bother us a lot, screams and stuff, one time he was screaming at my little sister, and I was furious, I told him ‘how dare you even talk to her like that? Are you even her father? What did you do to her to be her father?’ He didn’t replay, from what I remember it was so satisfying“-

– Of course you can share about you, bring the post back to you. I will probably be better at responding to what you share about yourself and your life now, than I was before. I see courage.. I must stop, I am afraid to misunderstand the situation you described. I don’t want to repay your understanding of me with a misunderstanding of you!

Was it courage?

I wrote to you: “Your reply is very satisfactory to me. Thank you, a lot”, and you replied: “You are more then welcome, and thank you for trusting me“- this is AMAZING because I started this post to you with the issue of trust, and that was before I read your post.

“I didn’t comment on everything (because I felt adding a comment to some of your replay would be not nice, and unnecessary) though you should know I understand most of it, and the part I didn’t, I either assumed stuff…”- I am fine with you commenting on everything and am grateful for what you did comment on, and you commented on a lot. I also don’t expect perfection from you although recently all I got from you was just that, Perfection.

I am thankful to you, and humbled.. and wiser because of you. Again, you are amazing, brilliant and so very special to me.

anita

Dear Murtaza:

I was way less afraid today to read your most recent post. Today, I kept it for last as an expected pleasure. I read just a bit of your post before typing this sentence, and now- part by part, no editing:

“As I read your post, after I just woke up, I smile, even laugh at times“- you woke up around 7 am this Friday. I wonder if you had breakfast before you turned on your computer. (No need to answer, it is just a wondering)

“Since you showed me something I haven’t see in any online interaction, I always wanted to give back to you what you gave me, when I talk about your life, I won’t show any of the argumentative Murtaza, just gentle and kind and understanding Murtaza“- thank you. I was thinking about it yesterday, how strange it is to receive the highest quality help without paying for it, just like that, for free.. I said to myself: better not take too much of it, better not work you to exhaustion!

And what you wrote, about being the “gentle and kind and understanding Murtaza” vs. the “argumentative Murtaza” is just too precious, too sweet.

Regarding my quote of being possibly hurt/ betrayed, you wrote: “I feel afraid that I might, if I do without knowing, without meaning to, could you please tell me? To not end this conversation as soon as I do that? To just point it out so we can discuss it/ tell you my pov?”-

– how interesting: right after I read “I feel afraid hat I might.. without meaning to“, and before I read the rest, I thought to myself a parallel thought: I am afraid that I might get angry at Murtaza again, that I .. well, like before. I am not inclined that way, not feeling anger at you at all, but it scared me for a moment.. what if..? Could I.. is it possible?

I will definitely let you know, I will remember to let you know of any feeling of hurt or betrayal on my part. It will not be difficult because I do not edit (other than spelling of my writing). I guess this is the trust in you, that I type without thinking much, or I should say, without re-thinking, just typing away. So, whatever comes to mind and heart is typed before I can take it away, or hide it.

I wrote to you that you are a sweetheart, that the thought occurred to me that you are, and you replied: “Thank you anita, this makes me feel warm“- well then, again I say: you are a sweetheart, Murtaza, and I smile as I am typing this.

“I too think the same about you, that how fortunate people will feel when they get to know you/ experience your gentleness“- I hope some people at the taproom think this way, I would like to think that they do, or that some do.

“I felt it was anger, when i imagined you writing it, I felt you you were bit angry and wrote this very fast, it was cute imagine you like that“- you are exceptionally perceptive and overall brilliant.

“I’m very glad, although I’m not doing anything really, I’m just being myself, I think we just have a some kind of rhythm, the result of us, the person right here, is compatible, so this is why we help each other easily, it comes natural, although I feel in your part, you did more to understand and accept me, thank you for that” –

– I like reading that you and I are compatible, sharing some kind of rhythm. You wrote here that you, or you suggested here that you are not working hard to help me, and that I worked hard before, trying to understand you. I think that the reason I worked harder was because I was not as perceptive or as brilliant as you are. Still not, but getting there, getting to be more perceptive.

“I too felt like you are an angel, still do“- it was only after I wrote to you yesterday that you are like an angel, that during my walk, I remembered that you said the same about me, earlier.

“I think this is a very well description of her, evil god“- it feels good to read this. Not guilty.

“you shouldn’t feel guilty (its ok to feel guilty though, because you were programmed to feel this way) because what she did to you, I think that you are allowed to say anything about her“- okay, I will say it then: for me, in my life, she was an evil god.

I want to continue my post to you later. I want to stop here because I am not feeling guilty for what I just wrote. I want to be in peace with this absence of guilt for a while. I will probably be back after my walk.. later. Thank you so much, Murtaza!

anita

Also, the plot made me think of you and me, of course, the Max-and Marry connection,  I mean.

anita