Home→Forums→Tough Times→growing up – becoming adul / procrastination – in connection to childhood trauma
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anita.
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February 18, 2024 at 5:30 am #427884
Robi1992
ParticipantHey there 🙂
Although I posted here before I kept postponing this. About 5 years ago I wrote a very long post here. I wrote all I could remember about my childhood experience and my life situation as a 25 years old. I found it easy to wrote it down, and I didn’t have any expectation. Simply writing it down created a map for me, which I can see every now and then. Often I forget about it, and go on with my life and I keep postponing adding more details and roads to my map, same as I kept postponing writing this post.
Today, more than 5 years later, many things have changed. I’ve come closer to myself and I’ve learned to be more comfortable with my daily life. I’ve learned that acting against what my gut feeling tells me always comes with a price. I am very, very grateful for all the insights that came my way, the teachers and the experiences that transformed me. I am also very proud of myself for letting myself be guided by my hearth and not my fears.
Also, many things haven’t changed. As I recently said during a therapy session, ‘’The game is the same, only the level has changed“. The thing is, since I can remember I’ve been trying to fit in. I’ve always felt like I don’t quite match whatever was going on around me. I didn’t like school much. I didn’t fit in, our education system has always been shit and I was always very distracted. I couldn’t concentrate. Very few subjects could keep me interested. Everyone seemed to have it better figured out and I’ve often felt inadequate, an outsider of all circles. Almost.
I created a persona, a clown that would do anything for little attention. I would do whatever it takes to stand out, so more attention comes my way. I would act tough and confident. I guess that was my way to fit in. Most of my school mates didn’t want to be friends with me and the ones who did, were too tough for me. I wasn’t a tough kid, I was just acting like one. I was a shy kid, in many arias blocked, stuck and anxious. When my parents were around I would keep most things for myself. I wouldn’t express my needs much. I was already blocked and suppressed so I must’ve disconnected from myself, from my healthy needs and boundaries quite early. Earlier than I can remember.
Why all that need for attention? Why did I want to be liked so much? Did I believe I wasn’t liked? Did I believe I wasn’t good enough?
Now, so many years later I look at it and I see it clearly. I know already that my childhood experience wasn’t a very good basis for a successful adult. I put it there on my map, 5 years ago when I let words fly out and filled quite a few pages. I put many things together then in the last years. For the most part, I accepted myself for the way I am today and the ways I’ve coped with it as a kid and later on as an adult.
I was born in ’92 in Eastern Europe and I grew up in a flat with my parents. I didn’t have my own room, or my own space – that wasn’t a priority for my parents. Most of my childhood I’ve lived in a guest room which served also as a storage room for my parent’s stuff. The door was made of glass, so I’ve had no privacy. No effort has been made to make the room more suitable for me. I often felt like I wanted to hide, to keep something to myself.
For years, after school I would go to my paren’t work place and wait for them to finish work. My parent’s are music teachers. I would wait there for sometimes 7..8 hours. I’ve had nothing to do there. I would wait, walk around, just wait for the time to pass. Other kids would come and go, but I would just wait. I wasn’t there to study, I was there to wait. Of corse none of that was necessary, my parents could’ve taken me home – we lived 700 meters from the music school.
During summer holidays we would go to our lake house. We would spend months in total there. I hated it. I kept telling my parents I didn’t want to be there but the answer was always the same. They didn’t want to spend their time in the city, they wanted to relax. Similarly, at the lake house we all slept in one room and I didn’t get much space for myself. Also, I’ve had no friends there. I felt alone and caged.
Since I didn’t like school that much, I didn’t bother studying either. I remember not being interested and finding it very difficult to concentrate. I would procrastinate and avoid homework at all costs. The costs however, were high. My mother used to hit me whenever she would find out about my bad grades. A few times, I remember being brutally hit with a belt. Often after hitting me she would cry and apologise. She lost it quite a few times like that. I remember being confused – not understanding what the fuck is going on.
Also, once I’ve been promised that if I don’t improve my behaviour they will take me to a foster home. I’ve been told they will abandon me. I remember feeling scared that I will lose the attachment to my parents.
My parents didn’t want to sacrifice much of their comfort in order to make things more suitable for me. Also, they didn’t give me the space for intimacy, most probably because of their own lack of awareness. The connection I was always longing for, wasn’t there. I kept looking for it, looking for attention, trying to stand out. In school I was performing an act and at home I was suppressed.
I’ve learned to cope with all that. when I was about 11, my parent’s bought my first computer. I was hooked from the early beginning. I would spend an entire day and sometimes night playing games and watching films. The internet has become my playground. Finally there was a place where I could hide, explore and fit in. I was addicted. I didn’t know it then, but I do now. For many years, as an adult, I would spend my days in front of the computer. I wasn’t doing anything in particular. I would just watch films, YouTube, look at cars. I procrastinated like this for many years. I was addicted, and I see why. I truly believe it all served a purpose. I think It was a necessary addiction. All addictions are I guess. They all serve a purpose. I needed to cover the wounds, put my mind elsewhere. It stayed for me for too long. I feel like I’ve wasted years of my life not living.
Although many things have changed, and today I don’t spend too much time in front of a computer, I’m still looking for the same thing I’ve been looking for as a kid. I’m still looking to fit in. I’ve learned to be close to myself, to procrastinate ways less and have a healthy routine.
For the last 10 years I’ve been struggling with finding a job. I’ve had a couple of jobs in the last years but couldn’t hold on to them for long. Often I felt excruciatingly anxious and tired while at work, I just wanted to escape. For the last 3 years I’ve been working online and it has been very good – I was able to work whenever I wanted for as long as I wanted and the pay was very good. I enjoyed that! I still at times felt like I wanted to procrastinate but knowing I can do it in my own terms helped a lot. In many ways that job was tailored to my current blockages and anxieties. I managed to work and have an income without experiencing a lot of discomfort. Now, sadly the project I’ve been working on ended and again, I find myself looking for a job. I am more confident now of course, I have better awareness and I know things will work out. However, I would like to dig deeper into what has been really holding me down. I’ve often felt like I was operating with half of my brain tied to my back.
It’s been a long post ( again ). I will not push it further now. I want to share my experience here with you and while I learn more I hope you will find this useful. I’m curious if any of you see the connection between my childhood and my current struggle finding a job and motivating myself to move forward. I often feel stuck and tired of this inability to move on.
Any insights will be very appreciated! Thank you so much for reading!
Have a great day!
Robbie
February 18, 2024 at 9:19 am #427885anita
ParticipantDear Robbie:
“About 5 years ago I wrote a very long post here“- it was back on June 8, 2018, your very first post on your first tread, a post I answered on that same day. The last time we communicated was on Feb 7 and 16, 2023. Welcome back to the forums! I have been away Feb 16-Aug 28, 2013, and back every day since, good to read from you today!
About your childhood, you shared in this thread: “I was a shy kid, in many areas blocked, stuck and anxious… disconnected from myself, from my healthy needs and boundaries quite early. Earlier than I can remember…. I grew up in a flat with my parents. I didn’t have my own room, or my own space… Most of my childhood I’ve lived in a guest room which served also as a storage room for my parent’s stuff. The door was made of glass, so I’ve had no privacy…. For years, after school I would go to my parents’ work place and wait for them to finish work… I would wait there for sometimes 7..8 hours. I’ve had nothing to do there. I would wait, walk around, just wait for the time to pass… During summer holidays we would go to our lake house. We would spend months in total there. I hated it… Similarly, at the lake house we all slept in one room and I didn’t get much space for myself. Also, I’ve had no friends there. I felt alone and caged.
“Since I didn’t like school that much, I didn’t bother studying either. I remember not being interested and finding it very difficult to concentrate. I would procrastinate and avoid homework at all costs. The costs however, were high. My mother used to hit me whenever she would find out about my bad grades. A few times, I remember being brutally hit with a belt. Often after hitting me she would cry and apologise. She lost it quite a few times like that. I remember being confused – not understanding what the f*** is going on. Also, once I’ve been promised that if I don’t improve my behaviour they will take me to a foster home. I’ve been told they will abandon me. I remember feeling scared that I will lose the attachment to my parents…
“When I was about 11, my parent’s bought my first computer. I was hooked from the early beginning. I would spend an entire day and sometimes night playing games and watching films”.
About today, you shared: “Today, more than 5 years later, many things have changed. I’ve come closer to myself and I’ve learned to be more comfortable with my daily life… I am very, very grateful for all the insights that came my way, the teachers and the experiences that transformed me. I am also very proud of myself for letting myself be guided by my heart and not my fears.. For the last 3 years I’ve been working online and it has been very good – I was able to work whenever I wanted for as long as I wanted and the pay was very good. I enjoyed that!.. I’ve learned to be close to myself, to procrastinate way less and have a healthy routine… “-
– C o N g R a T u L a T i O n S for all your learning, amazingly expanding awareness and progress, and I am glad that you are very proud of yourself!
“Also, many things haven’t changed. As I recently said during a therapy session, ‘The game is the same, only the level has changed’… Although many things have changed… I’m still looking for the same thing I’ve been looking for as a kid. I’m still looking to fit in… I’ve had a couple of jobs in the last years but couldn’t hold on to them for long. Often I felt excruciatingly anxious and tired while at work, I just wanted to escape. For the last 3 years I’ve been working online and it has been very good… I still at times felt like I wanted to procrastinate but knowing I can do it in my own terms helped a lot. In many ways that job was tailored to my current blockages and anxieties. I managed to work and have an income without experiencing a lot of discomfort. Now, sadly the project I’ve been working on ended and again, I find myself looking for a job. I am more confident now of course, I have better awareness and I know things will work out. However, I would like to dig deeper into what has been really holding me down. I’ve often felt like I was operating with half of my brain tied to my back….I’m curious if any of you see the connection between my childhood and my current struggle finding a job and motivating myself to move forward. I often feel stuck and tired of this inability to move on”-
– Yes, I see the connection between your childhood and your current struggles: I could title your childhood story, The Boy in a Glass Cage, or Stuck Waiting, and/ or Never Alone, Always Lonely (“I was very lonely. Well.. Not. My parents where there every second of my childhood“, from a previous thread).
Being observed at any time through the glass door of the storage room where you lived, in the flat, with parents entering at any time without knocking, parents who saw you but.. didn’t see what you needed so desperately (privacy and positive attention), and when on “vacation” in the lake house .. still no privacy- no wonder that as an adult, you don’t want to be observed by people and therefore, you have had problems having long-term relationships. Lonely- you need people; having been caged in a situation where you were watched at any time- and sometimes hit by your mother(and threatened to be placed in a foster home), you need to be away from people. This is the main conflict, as I see it.
The boy in the glass cage was an anxious boy, a prisoner. Fast forward, the boy is you (not all of you, but much of you), and he will not be caged again, not if he can help it: not in a relationship, not in a job! The job you described was perfect for you because it afforded the boy enough freedom, and it is clear to me that your future job or jobs should be similarly flexible, so that the boy can experience a measure of freedom. And the woman for you needs to be similarly flexible, affording you lots of alone time behind a closed, solid door into which she’ll never enter without knocking first, asking and receiving permission to enter.
anita
February 18, 2024 at 9:38 am #427886Roberta
ParticipantDear Robbie
I am sorry that your childhood was not nurturing in a way that would help you transition to a happy adulthood.
Many people find that concentrating on whats called ‘inner child’ work gives them a framework to begin a journey towards wholeness by learning to be the parent that your younger self needed.
I hope that you find a job that is fulfilling and financially viable. What kind of work would you like to do & would it give you the chance to connect with other people even briefly.
Kind regards
Roberta
February 19, 2024 at 4:07 am #427905Robi1992
ParticipantDear Anita,
It’s so good to hear from you! I’ve been wondering how you’ve been lately! I hope all is good with you 🙂
Thank you for reading through both my new and older post. Indeed it looks quite obvious doesn’t it? I think I knew it deep down, just didn’t quite accept it. I find it hard still, to accept that my parents caused me such pain. I do accept it, don’t get me wrong. Of course, I know most of the times they just didn’t know how to handle being a parent. I’ve read Gabor Mate’s books, especially The Myth of Normal and Scattered Minds have opened my eyes to many things. Gabor’s work resonates with me deeply. I can’t recommend his books enough! But I’m sure many of you are familiar with his work.
Scattered Minds, a book about ADD/ADHD – really resonated with me. Many of the causes of ADD mentioned in the book are almost a copy of my childhood memories. I almost feel entitled to some copyright. Not sure I have it though. ADD I mean. The therapist I’ve been seeing recently said I don’t and she thinks I’m dealing with some ”performance anxiety”. She said that if I’ve had ADD I couldn’t hold on to a job and I would do only the things I like, the way I like them. I feel a little puzzled here. She’s right, I’ve been teaching english for about 6 months in Spain. I was both teaching and doing some janitor work in a language school. Although it was very, very difficult at times, I did it. I would feel anxious before my classes and very good after. I would almost always try to convince myself to do it. Then the pandemic started with a lockdown and all was shut down. It felt like a necessary breath of fresh air. I felt good not having to do anything.
Then came the next job, which I’ve had for 3 years and was almost ”tailored” for my needs. So grateful I am for that job. ( maybe if it wasn’t for that job, I would’ve never found the time to do the inner work. I much needed that ) After working for a while I was finally able to be financially independent as my salary got better and better. Before, while I was unemployed fully supported me financially and while I was working for the language school, they paid my rent. Finally in the summer of 2022 I was finally financially independent from my parents. I was living in Poland with my girlfriend and I was making better money now. She did ”bust my balls” a little and pushed me towards refusing to receive financial support from my parents, but that really changed things. I finally felt more responsible, less tied to them. I also felt my relationship with my parents has improved then. I’ve always felt them sending me money came with a price. My freedom was part of that price. As they controlled all of my actions when I was a kid, that same setup carried on into my adulthood. I was on a leash – so to speak. I’ve been living in a comfortable discomfort for a very long time. I got used to it. Up until the age of 29 I was basically fully and later partially supported by my parents. I have to admit, although comfortable, there was a lot of frustration in me because of that. I wanted my independence, I felt caged still – the cage has changed but still a cage.
So, of course.. finally being financially independent changed things a little. I felt more confident, I felt slightly more recognition ( as an adult ) from my parents and indeed our relationship has improved. I was less controlled by them. After a year and a half of financial independence, the project comes to an end. I knew it for a while already but I’ve been told they will assign different tasks for me after this project ends. That didn’t happen. Lesson learned – I should’ve started working on finding something else.. I really didn’t want to fall back on my parent’s support. There’s a list of lessons I’ve learned this year – a list I wrote on the last year of 2023. This, is one of them. ” Wishful thinking, when not accompanied by action leads to nothing ”.
I have to admit. If it wasn’t for my girlfriend, it would’ve taken me longer to see the red flags. We’ve been together for 2 years and a half now and during these years we’ve visited my parents about 5..6 times together. On all occasions we spent there in between 1 and 3 weeks. She comes from a very different childhood experience. In many ways an exact opposite of mine. She received the space, the attention and the freedom she wanted. She came from, what I would describe – a healthy upbringing. It was so easy for her to spot the obvious. She pointed to me many situations where I was being manipulated by my parents. Many times I wouldn’t realise that was happening although my gut feeling would say otherwise. But now, I had a better connection to my gut feelings thanks to my newly discovered Gabor Mate – so I started to wake up. I started to become aware of the s*** that has been thrown my way for years. The lack of support, attention and the very often patronising way my parents view both me and my partner.
Herself, being a little older than me, very present, rooted and aware, coming from a healthier background – saw it all. The ”map” I’ve already had. I’ve been drawing it for years. Without the observations from someone from the ”outside”, I would’ve been blinded still. Blinded by supple but effective manipulations my parents would pull. It took both of us a while to put it all together. I am very grateful for this woman. She’s very kind and understanding. Beautiful and loving. What a lucky guy I am 🙂 Although I try not to combine my romantic relationship with the relationship I have with my parents this subject has been very present in our life as a couple.
My source of income dried out in November. I still then hoped they would assign something new for me but they didn’t. I then realised I would have to again, for a while rely on my parents for financial support. During the period when I was fully independent, every time we talked on the phone they would offer to help me financially If I needed it. They would even insist. I always said no. I thanked them and told them if I found myself in need, I will let them know. Well, those times have come and I remember asking for their help. It wasn’t easy. I felt ashamed and uncomfortable. I was finally feeling more like an adult – I didn’t want to go back to being a kid and I surely didn’t miss having a cage over my f****** head. But I thought, we all grew a little recently. We have a better relationship now, I’ve been independent – I had a job, I’m in a stable loving relationship. Things surely had changed also in the way they view me. I was again, wrong. The moment I received money from them the cage fell down again. I felt it right away. I was again, on a leash.
It’s Christmas! We both needed a break from the stressful months we’ve had recently. I’m unemployed and unsure of my future again. We went to spend a couple of weeks with my parents. I needed to be ”home” for a while. I needed to disconnect from things a little. Spend some time in nature, do some sports outdoors. Spend some quality time together and also get some emotional support from my family. Also I’ve been thinking about doing a course and I wanted to ask my parents for their financial support in order for me to become a Personal Trainer. This has been on my mind for a while and feels like a job I would like doing. At first, my mother was thrilled – ” oh, finally! you’re doing something! we were worried about you. why didn’t you tell us earlier? I give you the money right now if you want! ”. That felt good! It felt like a welcoming hug. It felt like healthy support from my family. I thought to myself – Okay man, you got this. Something new and bright is coming. A next step towards adulthood and finally doing something I like. All is good 🙂
It wasn’t.
It took us a few days to see the signs already. Both of us felt constantly observed and controlled. It felt like we were supposed to dance to the rhythm my parents dictated. Otherwise we would be judged. Very often it felt to me like I couldn’t be my own person. If I tried to be my own person, to be myself in any personal way – I would be patronised. Like a little kid who doesn’t know much. Towards the end of our stay, I’ve had enough. My mother was already acting very standoffish because she thought we didn’t spend enough quality time together as a family – the 4 of us. She cornered me and started a fight – told me I didn’t care about them and I only cared about myself. I’ve had enough! I told her, that the way she’s been treating me when I was a kid hurts me still. I reminded her how she used to hit me and I told her that it still hurts me and it was a wrong thing to do. I didn’t raise my voice. I was still cautious, not to rock the boat too much. But I’m glad I didn’t snap. I often feel like I want to crack their heads open for the way they treated me. She rejected it completely. At first, she said she didn’t hit me and I’m talking nonsense. Also, she said to me – ” You’re living in 3 days. From that point, you’re on your own ”. She didn’t talk to us for the next days. Before living, we said goodbye and cried. Still, she wouldn’t own it. She kept telling me that I was a handful and It was very difficult for them to raise me. Indeed, I agree. I was a handful. I must’ve had my own reasons to be such a ”troubled” kid. Reasons a healthy adult should’ve seen. They didn’t.
We said goodbye and went back to Poland on the 5th of January this year. Since, I’ve been looking for work both here and in Spain, where I’d like to return soon. I haven’t yet found anything but I keep looking. Also, in the last 2 months I’ve only talked to my parents a few times. My father has been sending me very little money to survive – I’m on a drip so to speak. I have no other source of income now, and I feel terrible being supported still by them. I really hoped I could mend things with my parents, I hoped to make things work better. But maybe it’s not for me to fix anything. Maybe it’s time for me to take good care of myself. I called my mother 10 days after we left. I was hoping she’d by then cleansed a little and we could actually have a normal conversation. I ended up listening to a 40 minutes monologue – her telling me how bad many things I’ve done as a kid and that I deserved to be hit. And she was joking when she told me I’d be placed into foster care. Since, we’ve talked very little and I’ve been told she’s been very down and acting crazy lately. Maybe she feels guilty.
What a mess.. I can almost hear you say :))
Here I am now. Soon all this will look much better, I’ll move on for good. I am right now, gradually but surely stepping out of these toxic bonds. It took me a very long time to get even where I am now and I know it might still take a while. After all, all is good. I have the awareness I need to step out of it. I workout and meditate every day and my vision is clarifying more and more.
Thank you so much for reading this and for all the support throughout the years. It all means so much to me! I hope some will relate to my story and maybe find either hope or a way to simplify their own process of growth / healing. Sending you all much love!
Take good care!
Robbie
February 19, 2024 at 4:13 am #427906Robi1992
ParticipantDear Roberta,
Thank you for your insights!
There are quite a few things I’d like to do. I believe if I managed to lift off the barriers I could do a few things. I like working with people, coaching or teaching. I am seriously thinking of becoming a personal trainer. I used to tech english in the past, so I might get back to that. I’m actively applying for jobs as an English Teacher. I also like to DJ, as a hobby but could later on become a source of income as well. By my diplomas, (MA) I’m a professional photographer and videographer. I lost touch with this one quite a while ago but I see it more and more coming back. Let’s see how things develop. For now my priority is to have my own source of income and not be supported by my parents.
I wish you a nice day!
Robi
February 19, 2024 at 12:44 pm #427926anita
ParticipantDear Robbie:
I spent a long, long time on a reply to your recent post earlier today, almost concluded a long post with quotes and all, like I normally do, and then lost it all after opening a new window. So, this reply will be different and way, way shorter than the one I lost: first, you are welcome and thank you for your kind words and love sentiment. I do hope, like you, that people will be reading your story will draw hope and help from it. You express yourself so well!
Thank you for the author/ book recommendation. I looked up quotes and particularly liked the ones I was able to process (having ADD myself), one about children doing way more reacting (to parents0 than acting; another about how ADD is about tunning out chronic pain experience in childhood because the developing nervous system cannot handle the ongoing (negative) stimulation, nor can the body tolerate the high levels of stress hormones secreted into then blood. It reads like, by the way, that if you, Robbie, suffer from ADD, it’s not as severe as in my case.
I was glad to read that you are still in a long-term relationship with your girlfriend, who reads like a lovely person! I hope that you land a job (in Poland or in Spain) fitting your needs for money/ financial independent, on one hand, and your need for freedom and flexibility, on the other hand.
In regard to your mother, I was thinking about what drives her in regard to how she’s been treating you as a child, and still. It seems to me that she feels guilty for hitting you, for threatening to send you to foster home, etc., (as she should), but her response to her guilty feelings is- unfortunately- not to acknowledge, sincerely apologize for her past behaviors, and correct those- but instead, to guilt-trip and threaten you further. In other words, her solution to her past wrongdoings against you is to .. add wrong on top of wrong… (nice work, mom… not!)
Am I correct in my understanding?
anita
February 20, 2024 at 9:33 am #427966anita
ParticipantDear Robbie:
Feb 18-19, 2024 (I will be adding the boldface feature selectively to the following quotes): “My mother used to hit me whenever she would find out about my bad grades. A few times, I remember being brutally hit with a belt. Often after hitting me she would cry and apologise. She lost it quite a few times like that…
“Finally in the summer of 2022 I was finally financially independent from my parents. I was living in Poland with my girlfriend and I was making better money now… I finally felt more responsible, less tied to them… Up until the age of 29 I was basically fully and later partially supported by my parents…
“During the period when I was fully independent, every time we talked on the phone they would offer to help me financially If I needed it. They would even insist. I always said no. I thanked them and told them if I found myself in need, I will let them know. Well, those times have come and I remember asking for their help… The moment I received money from them the cage fell down again. I felt it right away. I was again, on a leash.
“It’s Christmas!… We went to spend a couple of weeks with my parents. I needed to be ‘home’… I’ve been thinking about doing a course and I wanted to ask my parents for their financial support in order for me to become a Personal Trainer….At first, my mother was thrilled – ‘oh, finally! you’re doing something! We were worried about you. Why didn’t you tell us earlier? I give you the money right now if you want!’. That felt good! It felt like a welcoming hug. It felt like healthy support from my family.…
“Towards the end of our stay, I’ve had enough. My mother was already acting very standoffish because she thought we didn’t spend enough quality time together as a family – the 4 of us. She cornered me and started a fight – told me I didn’t care about them and I only cared about myself. I’ve had enough! I told her, that the way she’s been treating me when I was a kid hurts me still. I reminded her how she used to hit me… She rejected it completely. At first, she said she didn’t hit me and I’m talking nonsense. Also, she said to me – ‘You’re leaving in 3 days. From that point, you’re on your own’. She didn’t talk to us for the next days. Before leaving, we said goodbye and cried. Still, she wouldn’t own it. She kept telling me that I was a handful and It was very difficult for them to raise me…
“We said goodbye and went back to Poland on the 5th of January this year. Since, I’ve been looking for work… I feel terrible being supported still by them. I really hoped I could mend things with my parents, I hoped to make things work better… I called my mother 10 days after we left. I was hoping she’d by then cleansed a little and we could actually have a normal conversation. I ended up listening to a 40 minutes monologue – her telling me how bad many things I’ve done as a kid and that I deserved to be hit. And she was joking when she told me I’d be placed into foster care. Since, we’ve talked very little and I’ve been told she’s been very down and acting crazy lately. Maybe she feels guilty. What a mess.. I can almost hear you say”-
– I went (again) over our past communication, and like I thought, you didn’t share about your mother hitting you back in 2018 and onward, not until a couple of days ago.. even though you submitted many long posts. In the past, you presented both your parents as severely emotionally neglectful, there physically but not emotionally. In this new thread, you shared for the first time that there was abuse- beyond neglect- on the part of your mother. This fits with your descriptions, in previous threads, of the tension and physical discomfort you experienced when in her presence.
I am trying to get an understanding about your mother by looking at the parts I boldfaced above and the only word that goes through my mind is “crazy” (your word above), not sensible or reasonable. She seems bitter, angry, chronically stressed, perhaps, unaware/ having no insight into herself or into others.. unpredictable, impulsive… Can you help me understand her better?
A thought that came to my mind yesterday is related to these quotes: “I was also a shy person all the time and I guess I rarely got much attention” (June 8, 2018), and “I would do whatever it takes to stand out, so more attention comes my way” (Feb 19, 2024), in connection to you getting positive and enthusiastic attention from your mother when you asked for money (“my mother was thrilled – …’I give you the money right now if you want!’“, Feb 19, 2024), and how it felt for you to receive her positive and enthusiastic attention (“That felt good! It felt like a welcoming hug. It felt like healthy support from my family“, Feb 19, 2024).
It is possible that this positive and enthusiastic attention from your mother when you asked her for money.. is behind a motivation on your part, throughout your adulthood, to get into situations where you need money and then ask her for money, because it pleases her to give you money and she gives you this positive attention…?
anita
February 20, 2024 at 1:01 pm #427972Robi1992
ParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you so much for your post! I’ve just got off the phone with my mother right now and my brain is a little fried. I’m a little foggy after intense conversations so I’m struggling a little to write something comprehensive. I’ve just read your last post and it does sound familiar what you’ve described. Also my girlfriend told me a couple of times that in her eyes, my parents seem to want to keep me financially tied to them. It very often crossed my mind that the way they always offered to support me financially and very often I’ve felt like they wouldn’t really want me to move on and be independent financially from them. Of course, I believe they do, on a conscious level want to me be financially independent. But at times I also thought that there might be some strange dynamics connected to their offering of financial support. Very often I’ve heard from them ( actually my mother mostly ) things like: ” please don’t forget us ” , ” keep calling us ” , ” don’t live us ”. ” We are your parents and we do everything for you ”. ” You can always rely on us ”. Me being financially supported by them does keep us connected – so I see indeed a good reason there to keep the status quo. To be honest, not much else has been given throughout the years. Not much emotional support, authentic attention, the space needed to be heard by them. I’ve been mostly given financial support. It doesn’t surprise me that even now, the things haven’t changed.
However, when it comes to my part, I don’t know. Do I want to put myself into situations where I get their attention? Since there wasn’t much else they were able to give to me in the past, it is possible that the closest thing to receiving their attention could mean their financial support – them giving me money. But I don’t really feel it. I don’t know! I’d have to really pay attention to this, this is very important. I felt good and accomplished when I was financially independent, and I didn’t feel like I missed or needed their financial support. It felt good knowing it’s there if I needed it.
I will think about this, It’s been on my mind too. Thank you so much, Anita!
My main objective now is to head back to Spain and find stability. I’ll have an online interview on Friday with a language school from Spain, I’ve sent quite a few applications. I feel uncomfortable now being financially supported still by my parents, and also my future moving to Spain will also be supported by them. Sadly right now I don’t have any other source of income. In Poland I didn’t manage to find a job. I also don’t want to live here anymore, it doesn’t make any sense to me. I hope next month I’ll get to Spain and start working. I hope to use my parents financial help for as little as possible and become financially independent again as soon as possible. What do you think of this? To me right now this seems to be the best option, although not ideal. But I don’t want to live here in Poland and I also don’t want to move back with my parents.
Thank you so much! I hope you’re having a good evening! ( or day, probably where you are 🙂 ) It’s 10 pm here!
Take good care,
Robbie
February 20, 2024 at 2:02 pm #427973Robi1992
ParticipantDear Anita,
Also, I just realised I haven’t fully answered you. Indeed, I haven’t mentioned the physical abuse before and it might sound strange, but I honestly thought that was considered to be ”normal”. In my country many kids were hit by their parents and It’s considered almost normal, although illegal. Only recently I started thinking more about those events, and I realised that might’ve been one of the reasons why I didn’t trust my parents and the reason why I disconnected myself from not only them, but partly the world around me. Actually I’ve always remembered those events, but didn’t think they meant anything. I was wrong, obviously. I thought that I deserved to be hit, like many other kids from my generation did. I didn’t connect the dots until recently.
As for my mother, your description is perfect. ” crazy – not sensible or reasonable. She seems bitter, angry, chronically stressed, perhaps, unaware/ having no insight into herself or into others.. unpredictable, impulsive ”. My mother always took care of others – she had to take care of her siblings so from an early age she took the role of the caregiver. Her mother wasn’t very emotionally available either, she gave her many responsibilities and didn’t give her space to be a kid. She was in a way, a kid taking care of other kids. She didn’t get a lot of support form her family and they never really had a good relationship, it was always very intense. ( what a surprise ) She suffered a lot through her childhood, married a man who’s family didn’t like her at all. He was and still is concerned with his own stuff and she again became the caregiver, the cook, cleaner. When she was 24 she had an abortion. My father didn’t want to have a kid, he thought they were too young and he was afraid of being judged by his family. Few years later, I came out. – my mother told me she had to trick my father into it. ( whatever that means…. ).
Since, she’s been through a cancer, when I was 13 and quite a few health problems. Her traumas are showing in her body, but she doesn’t hear it. I am very ofter worried, and I find it hard to live my own life knowing she needs so much help, but I’ve tried to support her and I see that there isn’t much I can do. I tried helping her become more aware, but it doesn’t always work like that.
Writing this, gave me a better view of where my mother is, and where she came from. It’s a sad story.
Thank you, Anita!
February 20, 2024 at 2:11 pm #427974anita
ParticipantDear Robbie:
You are very welcome! Y are still 9 hours ahead of me. By the time I submit this, it will be 2:11 pm here, U.S.; 11:11 pm, Poland.
“It is possible that the closest thing to receiving their attention could mean their financial support – them giving me money. But I don’t really feel it. I don’t know! I’d have to really pay attention to this, this is very important”-
-yesterday, you wrote: “my mother was thrilled – …’I give you the money right now if you want!’ That felt good! It felt like a welcoming hug. It felt like healthy support from my family“- so it’s not necessarily that receiving your parents’ money felt good, but that seeing your mother thrilled in connection to you, that made you feel good, like a welcoming hug (your words)
I will reply further to your post above (and to whatever you may add before I return) Wed morning (your Wed afternoon). Good night, Robbie.
anita
February 20, 2024 at 2:22 pm #427978anita
ParticipantDear (Robi or Robbie?):
I just realized that you submitted a 2nd post while I was still typing my reply above. I’ll reply to it further in (my) morning. I hope that you sleep well.
anita
February 21, 2024 at 8:39 am #428002anita
ParticipantDear Robbie:
“In my country many kids were hit by their parents and It’s considered almost normal, although illegal. Only recently I started thinking more about those events, and I realised that might’ve been one of the reasons why I didn’t trust my parents and the reason why I disconnected myself from not only them, but partly the world around me. Actually I’ve always remembered those events, but didn’t think they meant anything. I was wrong, obviously. I thought that I deserved to be hit, like many other kids from my generation did. I didn’t connect the dots until recently”-
– (1) As I read this, I thought of a book you might write and publish one day, for people of your age (and older), in your country (and in other countries) to read. You express yourself so well, and with such refreshing emotional honesty.
(2) Indeed, physical abuse of children inside the home leads to mistrust and disconnection in the society at large.
“As for my mother, your description is perfect. ‘crazy – not sensible or reasonable. She seems bitter, angry, chronically stressed, perhaps, unaware/ having no insight into herself or into others.. unpredictable, impulsive‘. My mother always took care of others- she had to take care of her siblings so from an early age she took the role of the caregiver. Her mother wasn’t very emotionally available either, she gave her many responsibilities and didn’t give her space to be a kid… She suffered a lot through her childhood, married a man who’s family didn’t like her at all… When she was 24 she had an abortion. My father didn’t want to have a kid… Few years later, I came out – my mother told me she had to trick my father into it. (whatever that means..)”-
– I imagine that growing up, as she took care of her siblings/ others, she got some positive reward from her mother, however small, and that filled her with hope and excitement, an emotional motivation to keep taking care of others, hoping for more of a reward: for affection and love, and to be taken care of in return. Not having received that greater reward day in and day out, year after year, filled her with anger, chronic, ongoing anger, motivating her to turn against those she was helping (“they never really had a good relationship, it was always very intense“, you wrote about her relationships with her family of origin)
Fast forward, she displays the same conflicted motivations as a mother: on one hand, taking care of you and feeling that hope and excitement combo, as in when you asked for financial help last Christmas (“At first, my mother was thrilled… I’ll give you the money right now if you want“), and on the other hand, angrily, she turns against you, during the same Christmas visit (“My mother was already acting very standoffish… She cornered me and started a fight – told me I didn’t care about them and I only cared about myself… she said to me – ‘You’re leaving in 3 days. From that point, you’re on your own’. She didn’t talk to us for the next days“).
Having a kid (you) was her new hope to receive the love that was not available for her elsewhere. She had to.. almost steal this new opportunity- in her mind- to be loved (by tricking your father).
“Very often I’ve heard from them ( actually my mother mostly ) things like: ‘please don’t forget us’, ‘keep calling us’ ‘don’t leave us’. ‘We are your parents and we do everything for you’, ‘You can always rely on us’“- growing up, not receiving love, she felt undeserving of it. She kept taking care of others, hoping to become deserving of love. Fast forward, she feels undeserving of your love.. and hoping to become deserving of it by (financially) helping you more.
“Since, she’s been through a cancer, when I was 13 and quite a few health problems. Her traumas are showing in her body“- ongoing, chronic anger involves lots of stress hormones released into the blood, day in and day out, and over time, such do damage to the body.
“but she doesn’t hear it. I am very often worried, and I find it hard to live my own life knowing she needs so much help, but I’ve tried to support her and I see that there isn’t much I can do. I tried helping her become more aware, but it doesn’t always work like that“-
– indeed, it doesn’t work like that. The love she needed as a child was not there for her for too long, so her emotional love receptors, so to speak, got filled with scar tissue (way before you were born). When you were a toddler and a young child, you loved her very much, it was a pure and unconditional love (as it is the case of any young child), but it was too late for her to receive your love because of that (figurative) scar tissue.
You tried to help her to become more aware, but becoming aware involves pain.. like the pain of removing a scar tissue that’s well embedded in the flesh. I don’t think, from all that you shared, that she can be helped except by a quality, professional counselor/ psychotherapist whom she’d be willing to see.
“My main objective now is to head back to Spain and find stability. I’ll have an online interview on Friday with a language school from Spain, I’ve sent quite a few applications… In Poland I didn’t manage to find a job. I also don’t want to live here anymore, it doesn’t make any sense to me. I hope next month I’ll get to Spain and start working. I hope to use my parents financial help for as little as possible and become financially independent again as soon as possible. What do you think of this?… and I also don’t want to move back with my parents“-
– I think that it’s a good plan for you to (1) not move back with your parents, (2) to find a job and become financially independent again.
As far as moving to Spain, will you leave your girlfriend behind in Poland, or will she be joining you?
anita
February 22, 2024 at 8:31 am #428046Robi1992
ParticipantDear Anita,
– (1) As I read this, I thought of a book you might write and publish one day, for people of your age (and older), in your country (and in other countries) to read. You express yourself so well, and with such refreshing emotional honesty.
Thank you so much! Well, I think this topic has been already covered many times. As I mentioned before, Gabor Mate summarised all these aspects in such simple and compassionate ways that I wouldn’t even try to touch the subject. But you never know what will happen in the future.
I like what you said about my mother, you see it very well and clear. I’ve spent maybe too much thinking of these aspects that I often feel like I overly analysed the story of my childhood to the point of not living fully in the present moment anymore. Of course all of this is ( still ) necessary. Last years have been a battle between reframing my childhood experiences and making some new ones – the balance hasn’t been always easy to achieve. If ever. But I’m getting better at it.
There are some news 🙂 Today I’ve bought my plane ticket to go to Spain. I’m going in the first of March. New Month, New Beginning – also it was the cheapest ticket so all seemed to make sense. I was very hesitant to buy the ticket, since I don’t know if there will be work for me there, but I’d rather spent my time looking for a job there in person than sending applications from here. I’m willing to try my best to find work, this time I have to do it differently. This time I want to put more effort and avoid getting comfortable again. ( relying on my parent’s money and not working / not working enough to be fully independent ). I even recorded a video of myself today talking to the camera, telling myself how this time I’l have to change my approach. I wanted to have a video I could come back to, when I feel foggy and unmotivated. I wanted something to bring me back on my track, back OnCourse. Btw, that’s also the name of my YouTube Channel – a channel I’ve been trying to launch for a while, actually started airing in November but got hit by a missile during the latest conflict with my parents and didn’t really get back to it since. It’ll come back soon!
Now, tomorrow morning after waking up, I’ll do my yoga, meditate and have an online interview with a Language Academy in Spain. ( Alicante – if you were wondering where I’m going ). The first two are routines by now, almost autopilot. The last one isn’t. This one is a little harder to manage while feeling comfortable. I’d like to become more grounded in these situations, to be less scared of failure and feel less of an impostor. After all, I’ve done it before. I’ve been teaching English for a while and I didn’t suck at it. I guess everyone feels nervous before an interview, at least to some degree. It’s the degree I have to work on 🙂
Right after buying the ticket today, knowing I’ll have that interview tomorrow – a big wave of anxiety hit me. A wave of nostalgia and false reasoning. Finally, now I’m headed towards a more plausible scenario of change. Suddenly I’ll miss Poland. I’ll miss the dark, wet and cold days. This wave I’m talking about isn’t new to me. Oh no. We’ve been acquainted a long time ago and with no exception, we’ve met every time I left my hometown and later my country. Surfing takes discipline, awareness and momentum. I’ve surfed a few waves in the past, and I consider myself to be an average surfer ( considering the fact I come form an Eastern European country ). I believe these waves too could be tamed a little – with the right amount of discipline, awareness and momentum. The ride might be worth it. I think so 🙂
So yes, I feel anxious – almost paralysed. I often battle between the fear of failure and the self encouragement I’ve learned about only recently. Often my newly discovered sense of courage the part of me that finds hope and clarity loses to my older inhabitants that have been the ruling party for much longer.
The girlfriend has to stay here for a while. I’d love to be able to take her with me! She also needs to find herself a job in Spain, to find a way to gradually transfer her job from Poland to Spain. She’s a Yoga and Pilates Teacher – it’s a doable thing. Her English is impeccable so she won’t be needing much Spanish to do her classes. Alicante has a big community of expats. It’ll be hard to go back there without her. She loves that place as much as I do, if not more. That’s where we met, on the beach! Makes me think of Chris Rea’s song – On the Beach. Good song, I think 🙂
What I’m going to do now, is prepare for the interview. My CV doesn’t even acknowledge I’ve ever moved away from Spain – and on paper, I’ve never stoped teaching English. So now, I gotta make sure tomorrow I look like I know my s****. I know, maybe not completely fair but I’m in a bit of a hurry to get my s**** together.
Thank you for your brilliant answers, you too have amazing awareness. I’ve never seen anyone connect dots quite like you do, Anita. Thank you so much! I hope you’re having a great morning!
Robi
February 22, 2024 at 10:45 am #428054anita
ParticipantDear Robi:
You are welcome, and thank you for your appreciation of me! “I’ve spent maybe too much thinking of these aspects that I often feel like I overly analysed the story of my childhood to the point of not living fully in the present moment anymore“- I am all for you living fully in the present moment, aka living mindfully!
“Today I’ve bought my plane ticket to go to Spain. I’m going in the first of March. New Month, New Beginning…“- – C o N g R a T u L a T i O n S and how exciting… a N e w B e g i n n i n g !!!!
“Now, tomorrow morning after waking up, I’ll do my yoga, meditate and have an online interview with a Language Academy in Spain. ( Alicante – if you were wondering where I’m going)“-
– About Alicante, Spain: “The area around Alicante has been inhabited for over 7000 years. The first tribes of hunter-gatherers moved down gradually from Central Europe between 5000 and 3000 BC” (Wikipedia). It is amazing that on March 1, 2024 AD, Robi will be flying from Central Europe (Poland) to a place first settled by Central Europeans 5,000 or 7,000 years ago!
“I’d like to become more grounded in these situations, to be less scared of failure and feel less of an impostor. After all, I’ve done it before. I’ve been teaching English for a while and I didn’t suck at it… knowing I’ll have that interview tomorrow – a big wave of anxiety hit me. A wave of nostalgia and false reasoning… Suddenly I’ll miss Poland. I’ll miss the dark, wet and cold days… with the right amount of discipline, awareness and momentum… So, yes, I feel anxious – almost paralysed… Often my newly discovered sense of courage, the part of me that finds hope and clarity, loses to my older inhabitants that have been the ruling party for much longer”-
– being scared of failure, feeling like a imposter, the wave of anxiety and feeling paralyzed, these “older inhabitants” of your brain-body are neurological- chemical (neurotransmitters, hormones) habits. Intellectual understandings of the whys do not undo such chemical habits. It takes discipline to lower the intensity of the old habits and slowly, with disciplined practice and an attitude of courage, to form new habits.
Notice how instinctively, your brain got nostalgic, as a way to keep you in Poland, so to prevent you from leaving to Spain. Nostalgia.. another mental (neurological- chemical) habit.
“The girlfriend has to stay here for a while. I’d love to be able to take her with me!…She loves (Spain) “- I hope that the two of you will reunite in Spain.. something to look forward to!
“What I’m going to do now, is prepare for the interview. My CV doesn’t even acknowledge I’ve ever moved away from Spain – and on paper, I’ve never stopped teaching English. So now, I gotta make sure tomorrow I look like I know my s****. I know, maybe not completely fair but I’m in a bit of a hurry to get my s**** together.“- Mindfully, being patient with your old habits (they will not just .. disappear), but persistent with the making of new habits… do get your s**** together, I am excited for you!
anita
February 23, 2024 at 2:18 am #428081Robi1992
ParticipantWell, that went well 🙂
I’ve just had my first interview with this school in Alicante. Monday the 4th of March I’m going to meet them in person and from what I’ve been told so far, there will be some classes for me to take on. Won’t be enough for me to be financially independent right away, but it’s a start. I’m planning to work for more academies / have more sources of income.
I’m happy I’ve got something to go to 🙂 Friends waiting there for me – also living with a friend for a few months. Funny enough, ”With a Little Help From my Friends” – playing now in my playlist. ( Joe Cocker ).
How are you doing these days?
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