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November 18, 2024 at 11:45 am in reply to: The phenomenon of “helping someone excessively can make them turn against you” #439484
anitaParticipantDear Arden:
“About the things that can be done, I look at them as doable or not doable“- you are a very practical person. You categorize tasks into two distinct groups: tasks you think can be accomplished (doable) and tasks you think cannot be accomplished (not doable).
“If I can do something, I try to do it. Doesn’t matter how stuck I am, how busy I am or how tired. If it’s doable by me, why let that person suffer“- you are a selfless, helpful person. You prioritize helping others whenever you have the ability to do so, regardless of your own circumstances or challenges. You believe that if you have the capability to alleviate someone else’s suffering, you should take action, even if it requires personal effort and sacrifice.
“But they are not necessarily like that and I tend to realize that, and get bitter, in my mind. No reaction, I just feel bitter. But I keep doing it for some time“- you acknowledge that others do not share the same level of selflessness and willingness to help as you do, that others do not reciprocate your efforts or show consideration. This realization leads to feelings of bitterness and resentment.
Despite feeling bitter, you choose not to express these feelings outwardly or confront others about it. Instead, you internalize your emotions. And despite the bitterness and lack of reciprocation, you continue to help others. You are grappling with the emotional toll of consistently giving without receiving the same level of consideration in return (not even close to the same level of consideration in return).
It’s easy to point to solutions (open communication with husband and other people, setting healthy boundaries, and practicing self-care), but it’s very difficult for you to put these solutions into practice, isn’t it?
“In my husband’s case…”– reads like your husband is similar to you, only that he helps his siblings in self-sacrificial ways.. at his- and your expense.
“I had to support him because I could. But now, him helping out the family he got no help from? It really makes me upset… at least do not give lots of money to them when you don’t have your own flat or like your own bed“- reads like you and your husband are too similar: self sacrificial. Only you sacrifice for him while he sacrifices for his siblings.
“Everyone is just thinking about themselves and upgrading their life. I cannot get over the fact that his sibling that he helped out that much, is actually buying so much nice stuff for herself that I postpone buying“- you are expressing feelings of frustration and resentment about inequality in effort and reward, feeling that others, including your husband’s sibling, prioritize their own needs and improvements over those of others. You made personal sacrifices, such as postponing buying nice things, and then seeing the sibling indulge in nice things feels unfair and hurtful.
This situation puts an emotional strain on you, as you struggle to reconcile your own sacrifices with the actions of others who seem to be benefiting without similar sacrifices.
“But for one second, my perspective shifted from ‘victim’ to something else. I am looking at this issue from a victim’s perspective, feeling so much bitterness. I have to work on that victim perspective that occurs when something like this happens. I should never think like a victim“- here, you are expressing self-awareness where you see the situation from a different angle, realizing that your feelings of bitterness and resentment are stemming from viewing yourself as a victim in an unjust situation, a person with no power to change an unjust situation. You recognize the need to address and change this mindset, understanding that it is not helpful or constructive. You want to develop a more empowering and resilient mindset.
“I cannot unsee my feelings, unsee my effort. All this years of effort of mine deserves being prioritized by him. If his sister cannot manage all that money… She should know better, learn better. All my effort should never finance that sort of lazy behavior.“- you feel that your hard work and sacrifices should be recognized and valued by your husband. You want your contributions to be acknowledged and prioritized. You are frustrated that your husband’s sibling, who has received significant help, is not managing her finances responsibly. She believes the sister should be more financially savvy and responsible. You resent that your sacrifices might be enabling his sister’s irresponsible and lazy behavior.
Your feelings are valid, Arden. It’s okay to feel how you feel. Your emotions and efforts are valid and deserve recognition. It is important for you to feel supported and understood. I think that you need to have open and honest conversations with your husband. Express your feelings to him calmly and clearly, using “I” statements to avoid sounding accusatory. For example, “I feel hurt and overlooked when my efforts are not acknowledged.”
Establish clear boundaries regarding financial support for extended family. It’s okay to prioritize your own needs and well-being. If necessary, and if possible, consider seeking the help of a therapist or counselor for strategies for effective communication and coping with these feelings.
Engage in activities that bring you some joy and relaxation. Taking care of yourself is crucial, especially during emotionally challenging times.
Reflect on your values and priorities. Understanding what you truly want and need can guide your decisions and actions moving forward.
I hope that your life improves and that peace of mind takes the place of distress and conflict!
anita
anitaParticipantDear Tom:
You are welcome. What a powerful testimony to the effectiveness of keeping a gratitude journal!
Indeed, writing down things you’re grateful for helps shift your focus from what’s lacking or negative in your life to what’s positive and abundant. This can lead to a more optimistic outlook, reduce symptoms of depression and anxiety and help create a sense of contentment and well-being. It can also help build emotional resilience and strengthen relationships.
“Long term, I still need to find a solution for the work situation but this has definitely helped me focus on what I have and how lucky I am and realize that this is just a job and does not define me.“- I hope that long-term, you will find a solution for the work situation.
Good to read that, as I understand it, your identity and self-worth are not solely tied to your job/ work situation; that your values, interests, relationships, and other aspects of your life contribute to who you are as a person. It is important to find balance and fulfillment in various areas of life, rather than solely relying on work to define one’s sense of self.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Mahvash:
You are welcome!
“I feel like there is no reason to be happy and feel like my world has ended“- I am sorry that you feel this way. I felt similarly for a long time.
“I tried a lot to overcome all of this but feel helpless. I keep on thinking about things and don’t know what to do“- it’s really tough to feel helpless, especially when it comes to matters of the heart. To gain clarity and take effective action, it helps to (1) Break down a (big) problem into smaller, manageable pieces. Focusing on one aspect at a time can make it feel less overwhelming, (2) Identify your needs, values, and goals in your marriage and otherwise.
“I feel like my husband doesn’t respect and love me at all… I feel like maybe I don’t have any good qualities even though I earn good and support my family. I can’t keep my heads off from this thinking which is affecting my overall mental health… I feel like I am getting insulted and disrespected by my husband and don’t know how to ignore and come out of this“-
– notice you wrote “I feel like my husband doesn’t respect and love me at all… I feel like I am getting insulted and disrespected by my husband”. Your feelings are important. There are valid reasons for how you feel. I would like to understand your reasons better, therefore I ask: can you share an example or a few examples of disrespectful and/ or insulting words or behavior on his part?
“If you can suggest anything that would be great help“- 1- Be kind to yourself. It’s okay to feel uncertain and take time to make decisions. Self-compassion is crucial during difficult times.
2- Prioritize your physical health by getting enough sleep, eating nutritious meals, and staying active. Physical well-being can have a significant impact on mental health.
3. Over time, patiently identify * your needs, values and goals, * the specific problems in your marriage, * possible underlying issues that may be contributing to your feelings (past experiences often influence how we perceive others’ actions in the present time).
4. Consider all options that are available to you, including the potential outcomes of each: this can help you be & feel more informed and empowered to make a choice, or choices.
5. Take small, actionable steps toward solutions. Taking action, even in small ways, can lead to positive change and a sense of empowerment.
6. Remind yourself of your strengths, your accomplishments, your positive qualities, such as the one you mentioned (“I earn good and support my family“), and congratulate yourself for every step you take toward a better life.
7. Reach out to supportive friends and family (if any exist)/ to support groups perhaps, for a sense of belonging and support. I am here to listen to you empathetically and without judgment: it may help you to feel less alone.
In the beginning of my reply, I shared that I felt similarly for a long time. I feel way better than I used to feel back then. There is hope and you don’t have to face this alone. Healing takes time, but with the right support, you can work towards finding a measure of happiness and new meaning.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Mahvash:
Please tell me/ us about your severe depression: what is it about, how does it feel.. what are the thoughts involved?
anita
anitaParticipantHow are you, Klast?
anita
anitaParticipantHow are you, Tom?
anita
anitaParticipantI hope you are well, Zenith!
anita
anitaParticipantHow are you, Arie?
anita
anitaParticipantHow are you, bozo?
anita
anitaParticipantDear Louise:
“My mother...(was) the dominant one. Whereas my father was more depressed and unhappy and anxious… My mum could be quite angry and I think I still have a fear of people being angry with me“- so, your mother was The Angry One. My mother was an Angry Mother. Her anger at me, and at others, scared me because it had the threat.. and promise of punishment, of violence.
“I really up on and seem to absorb other peoples emotions, often thinking it is my fault if something is not right or they are in a bad mood“- afraid of others’ anger, as you were afraid of your mother’s anger?
Having an angry mother can be a deeply challenging and emotional experience for a child. It can evoke a range of feelings and reactions, including: Fear and Anxiety: Constantly being on edge, worrying about triggering her anger, and feeling unsafe in your own home, Confusion and Self-Doubt: Wondering what you did wrong, feeling responsible for her anger, Frustration and Helplessness: Feeling powerless to change the situation or make things better, leading to frustration and a sense of being stuck.
These feelings leave lasting emotional scars and affect one’s relationships and self-perception into adulthood. It certainly affected mine, big time. Does this resonate with you?
anita
November 17, 2024 at 12:51 pm in reply to: The phenomenon of “helping someone excessively can make them turn against you” #439449anitaParticipantDear Arden:
“Sorry to keep you busy with this toxic mentality.“- no, no need to apologize. I am sorry that you are suffering. Some of your concerns are valid and your agitation understandable: your husband should direct his resources to team # 1 (you and him), and reciprocate your efforts and commitment. I feel badly that he hasn’t, not adequately, at least.
I slept very poorly last night and I ran out of focus, at this Sun afternoon point. I want to read and re-read your recent posts and return to you Mon morning.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Jana:
“How did you get to the U.S.? I mean it had to be very challenging for you to move somewhere unknown… You are very brave!“- thank you for suggesting that I was brave for moving out (alone) of the country of my birth in the Middle East to somewhere unknown at the time (other than on TV, movies), the USA. I want to explore the topic before answering your question and responding to your suggestion that it was an act of bravery. In the quotes below I will boldface the words to which I will refer following the quotes.
(Online): “Bravery is the quality or state of having or showing mental or moral strength to face danger, fear, or difficulty without being overcome by it. It’s often associated with courage and heroism, whether in everyday situations or extraordinary circumstances. Bravery can take many forms, such as standing up for what is right, facing fears head-on, or taking risks for the benefit of others. It’s not just about the absence of fear, but the ability to act despite it”.
(Online): “Moving to a new country often involves stepping out of one’s comfort zone, facing the unknown, and adapting to a completely new environment. This process requires a great deal of courage, resilience, and determination. Leaving behind familiar surroundings, family, and friends to start anew in a different culture, language, and society is no small feat. It takes a lot of strength to navigate the challenges and uncertainties that come with such a significant life change“.
In my case, truth is, I did not have the mental or moral strength to face danger at “home” (quotation marks because it was not a place of safety, which is what a home is supposed to be), living with my mother, so I ran away to the U.S. Running away, I didn’t stand up for what was right, which would have been to stay and protect my much younger sister, who- following my departure- became the focus of my mother’s quest-to-dominate. Soon after I left, she had my very young sister get married (soon to get divorced) and ordered her (yes, ordered) to give her (my mother) a grandson, whom my mother proceeded to raise= to damage. I did not take risks to benefit others, particularly my sister, and later my nephew. I ran away.
Moving out of my country of birth, I did not step out of my comfort zone, I stepped out of my discomfort zone. I stepped out of a domestic war-zone, and facing the unknown was much easier and more inviting than facing the same-old, same-old known. The challenges and uncertainties at “home” overwhelmed me.
I want to elaborate (and thank you, Jana, for giving me this opportunity to return to my thread and elaborate) about my mother’s Quest To Dominate me through intimidation and emotional manipulation:
Intimidation is the act of intentionally frightening a person so to assert control/ domination over the person. My mother intimidated and manipulated me repeatedly in the following ways: 1. Verbal Threats: Threatening to kill/ murder me (“I will murder you!“) and/ or herself (two threats I remember well. I forgot a whole lot). 2. Yelling and Screaming, 3. Physical Intimidation: Using body language, such as standing very close, making aggressive gestures so to create fear, slapping, hitting and kicking me, 4. Belittling: Insulting, making derogatory comments to destroy existing or future self-confidence and self-worth. “You are a big zero” is one thing she said in a loud, confident, convincing tone of voice (among many, many things she said, most I forgot), 5. Emotional Manipulation: heavy duty guilt- tripping me, making me feel responsible for her dissatisfactions, hurts, anger, hopes, and future, and.. heavy duty shaming me, including in public, parading me (I was in high-school during this incident that I do remember) on the street while shouting insults at me and kicking me with her foot.
So, you see, Jana, it wasn’t scary to leave her and the country of my birth, and fly to a new country, a new continent. No bravery there.
* There was something else involved: my mother repeatedly expressed to me a strong, pervasive distrust and suspicion of everyone, children and adults, believing that everyone (sooner or later) was out to deceive and exploit her. She heavily bad-mouthed people behind their backs (while being sugary-sweet with them in their presence). So, in my world, growing up, there was no one to trust. When I made friends with a cousin, she bad-mouthed the cousin, so I couldn’t develop closeness with the cousin. Or with anyone. I was socially isolated, spending most of the time when not in school, at “home”.
I was pervasively suspicious of everyone, and this suspicious has followed me my whole life.
Talking about trust, sometimes, maybe often (I don’t remember), my mother was nice to me, when she was in a good mood, but I couldn’t trust her niceness and I kept feeling angry at her, my anger showing itself in my eyes. She heavily guilt-tripped me and shamed me for being angry at “the best mother in the world“, her words.
Sometimes, her shaming and guilt-tripping were prolonged, lasting hours and extending into days after, days of dreadful, guilt-producing silence. At other times, she’d shoot out insults/ some shaming words and wait, looking at my face with anticipation, excitedly waiting to see her words hitting me and causing me shame. When she saw the shame, she’d slightly smile. My shame was her pleasure.
Unfortunately, after I left to the U.S (in my 20s), I kept regular contact with my mother on the phone, flew to visit her for long periods of time.. she flew to visit me, trying to relocate to the U.S. herself, so.. any and all progress I made in the U.S. was undone by the continuation of these disastrous mother- daughter dynamics. I kept saving money, minimizing spending it, so to give her money and pay for my perceived guilt. I ended up giving ALL my money, which wasn’t enough to make a difference for her, and my guilt was not resolved. I finally ended all contact with her in 2013, as an older adult, and at that point, my healing has just begun.
I know I shared these things before, but most not in this exact way. I am sharing these things again because they still hurt, they still hinder me. I want to be less suspicious, more trusting of (most) people. I want to not have this distrustful aggression within me that finds its way out of me in words and gestures when I had some red wine in me (yes, I do drink alcohol, Jana. I know that you don’t).
I am partly healed from these disastrous mother- daughter dynamics, but there is more healing to be done. No wonder, because no one can come out of these pervasive, long-term dynamics unharmed. These dynamics are severely harmful. To heal further, I need to have a deeper appreciation of the severity of harm done, and this is why I am posting this. It is understandable, I say to myself, understandable that I was as harmed as I was, as I still am. It still hurts to have been shamed as much as I have been shamed. And it hurts that it was my mother who shamed me.
I come from a war-torn country, yet my lifetime anxiety, Tourette’s (tics), the ongoing physical tension and social embarrassment that accompany these tics; ADD, learning disabilities, past OCD and eating disorders.. all these and more were not caused by War. They were caused by.. my mother single-handedly. This is still a hard pill to swallow.
Back to your question, I got to the U.S. on a tourist visa, which was not difficult to obtain, stopped in London on the way to the U.S., met an American man while riding the London underground, and he asked to marry me a couple of months later in New York City. NYC was beautiful and magical, but I felt too guilty to enjoy it while my mother did not, so, I arranged for her to visit. The moment she arrived, all the beauty and magic evaporated for me, just like that. The very short marriage ended and I left NYC to New Orleans, and from there back to the country of my birth.. to visit her for 3 months because I felt too guilty not to visit.
anita
anitaParticipantDear Lisa:
You are very welcome. I understand you not being in the state of mind- heart to respond to me- and you don’t owe me- or anyone- a response. You are not alone in your pain and distress. I hope it eases.
anita
anitaParticipantThank you, Jana, how kind of you! 🙂
anita
anitaParticipant* Dear Jana: thank you for the compliment 😊
Dear Louise:
You are very welcome. “I am on the move, so don’t have a time to write a lot… when you say: *In all that is happening, it is most important that part of you (the adult part/ the parent part) practices empathy and compassion for the child part of you, taking her side, backing her up, advocating for her.* How do I do that?“-
-first, identify the child part (I’ll call her CP) vs the parent/ adult part of you (I’ll call her AP). The AP is the part that’s taking CP on the move. Maybe (I don’t know) CP wanted instead to write a lot, but AP told her something like: no, we have to go, we have to be on the move!
If AP says the italicized right above in a harsh tone, adding a shove, physically pushing CP along, adding an insulting word or words like: hurry up, you, lazy ***!- that’s abuse.
If AP says no, we have to go… in a gentle but confident voice, looking at CP with an affectionate smile, taking her hand and gently leading her along- that’s empathy and compassion.
If CP refuses to go along and AP shouts at and threatens CP- that’s abuse. If AP gently but firmly explains to CP: I understand that you don’t feel like going along, I understand that you feel like writing, but we have to go now. Later on, I promise, you will be writing more– that’s empathy and compassion.
“And I agree with you with regard to the men… my ex-boyfriend signifies security and Home to me. Whereas the other man doesn’t – He was the excitement that I was looking for which once I felt lost after leaving my home I didn’t really want the excitement anymore. If that all makes sense“- it makes sense to me: once you left home with no plans to return, you went back to being the lost, scared child that you were away from home, wanting nothing but to be back home.
I am re-reading your original and following posts (Nov 12-15), looking for Louise-the-child/ CP’s story. The boldfaced are your words. In parentheses are my words, my interpretations, correct or not): “Sorry if this is long (I shouldn’t be talking much about myself). I am feeling so lost… my mother died very suddenly and unexpectedly… I wanted to leave (my childhood home) and… have… freedom… I initially felt good but after only several days I was hit by feeling terrible, distraught that I had left my home and essentially made myself homeless, lost any sense of security… I feel completely lost and depressed… I think about contacting my (mother or father)… and asking if I can come back… I know our relationship wasn’t good but (I need a home). I know I have done so much wrong… I don’t know how to feel better… feeling in a panic about what I am doing with my (adult) life and wishing I could turn the clock back and go back to (childhood)… I just want to be back home… I need to stop beating myself up… go(ing) over all the things I could have done differently… it is a conflict inside me. The longing for freedom but then for security too… sorry my message is so long (I shouldn’t be talking so much about myself)… My parents argued and fought constantly. We lived in the middle of nowhere… I was dependent on my parents to drive me to visit a friend. So I felt very trapped in this place (home) where my parents were constantly shouting and screaming at each other. My father had mental health issues. But also as a young child, I would get very homesick if I went away from home even for a night. As a teenager, I had a lot of conflict with my parents and I did run away from home a few times… It is 3 am where I am. I cannot sleep. My mind is constantly full of these thoughts and just wanting to go back home… All I know is, I feel this desperate urge that I have to go back home… I feel in a constant state of panic… Sorry about all the strange symbols in my message.(I should be careful about what/ how I say)… Again, I woke up at 2 am With this terrible anxiety feeling and my heart pounding And I’ve been unable to sleep again… unable to relax… I just can’t imagine feeling any better… When I was a child away from home even for a night, I could remember I would cry all night Feeling so homesick and just needed to go home and see my mother (not my father). I am looking more for a caretaker now… If that all makes sense.“-
– Leaving your childhood home, as a child, even for a night, meant leaving your mother (you didn’t mention siblings) alone with a father with mental health issues, who was the one, perhaps, starting or causing all the arguing, fighting, shouting and screaming ?
I wonder if you felt, growing up, responsible for your mother, if you felt that it was your responsibility to be present in the home (as much as you wanted to not be there), so to protect your mother/ to calm down the turmoil (arguing, fighting, etc.)? I wonder if you felt that your life was about keeping her safe.
And recently, when she died unexpectedly, it triggered a childhood fear that you that you wouldn’t be able to keep her safe?
anita
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