Dear Priyan:

You asked: “How did I end up in this situation?“- let’s see…: you (32) were sexually attracted to a woman (37) in a bathing suit, in a public pool=> you had dinner with her the same evening, an evening with “lots of sexual tension“. You told her that evening that you “would like to seriously date her“, and she didn’t give you an answer=> a week later, she gave you an answer: “not ready to emotionally invest in a relationship, but, she would be willing to casually hook up“.

Next, you hooked up and the relationship fit the Friends With Benefits category (a relationship that is sexual but not romantic, no commitment and no strings attached. It can be short term or long term. The extent of emotional involvement in different FWB relationships is different because no two people are identical and therefore, no two FWB relationships is identical).

Next, “she wanted to cuddle and talk after sex… she started texting and calling me every day and even expected me to stay the night with her when she got sick“=> you told her that you were “not looking for anything other than sex from her“-

– I suppose that your initial motivation “to seriously date her” was.. not your true motivation when you had dinner with her on the same day you met her for the first time.. that it was something you said at the time while under the influence, so to speak, of all that “lot of sexual tension“…?

* It is possible that at that point, when you told her that you were not looking for anything other than sex with her, that her feelings were hurt.

Next, you started staying nights with her, even entire weekends and accompanied her on shopping trips during which “she made sure that I never touched her/held her hand in public and never introduced me to her friends or family“. When she left the country for 5 weeks, she regularly sent you amorous, romantic text messages and used a pet name for you. It is at that time that you “started developing feeling for her“- romantic feelings, that is.

Next, you told her that you had feelings for her, and her response: “she showed no emotions and asked for some time to think about it“. Next, she said “she didn’t feel the same way. She said she saw me only as a good friend and an awesome sexual partner and nothing else“.

When you brought up to her the romantic, amorous text messages she sent you when out of the country, she told you that “she thought she felt something when we were apart but those feelings went away after she saw me in person and had sex“.

Currently, the two of you still “meet for sex“, but she no longer sends you amorous texts and she no longer uses a pet name for you.

“Did I misread her cues and signals?.. Or was it my imagination that she felt something for me?“- I don’t think that you misread her cues and signals; that it was your imagination that she had romantic feelings for you. I think that she really did have romantic feelings for you.

“Or did I do something that made her lose interest in me?“- possibly when you told her, after she clearly expressed a romantic need for you, that you were not looking for anything other than sex with her. No doubt that such a statement would offend many women.

“How do I let this go and deal with the pain?“- I am sorry that you are dealing with pain. If the two of you were able to be very honest with each other, that would help the two of you!

Maybe you can show her how honest you can be, and that will motivate her to reciprocate your honesty.

Here is what this honesty I am referring to may look like, as an example of what could be true to your situation (I don’t know what is true because a very honest conversation between the two of you didn’t yet take place): the two of you met in a pool, sexual tension was high on your part, maybe more than on her part. During the first dinner, fueled by sexual tension, you told her that you seriously wanted to date her (but meant that.. you seriously wanted to have sex with her). Scared of having her feelings hurt yet again in the context of a traditional relationship (as I am guessing happened many times in her past, particularly being that she is 37), she wanted to protect herself by placing the relationship in the FWB box.

Next, she wanted out of that box (yet, not ready to leave it), but when you told her that for you, she belongs in that box (that you were not looking for anything other than sex with her), you kind of added a lock to that box.  You eventually developed romantic feelings for her and told her about it.. but she heard- and answered you- from within that box.

What do you think…?

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

It sounds good to me, it does!

anita

Dear Jay:

(I am the one adding the boldface feature to the following quote):  “There was quite a lot of positive body language from her, granted there was a moderate amount of wine involved…  The evening ended with what I would refer was a firm hug and ‘lets do coffee‘. Next day I send her a msg saying how nice it was to see her and let’s do coffee, 4 days later I get a response and it seems its (now) been defined as a ‘business’ coffee… What would you do?”-

– offer her: let’s do (a moderate amount of) wine, instead of coffee…?

Rarely do I suggest a simple solution, but maybe it is appropriate here, since as you know, alcohol relaxes  and caffeine does the opposite.

* I am not promoting alcohol as a way of life when dating or otherwise.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

I like everything you wrote today in your short post. You are welcome, thank you, and please take a day off (or more, take as much time as you need) from introspection. It’ll be a well-deserved time off from the excellent introspection you are capable of!

anita

Dear Stacy:

I know you gave (and still do) great importance to what he said, to the words he uttered and texted to you. Let’s look at one sentence he said to you, which you mentioned today: “he told me after the breakup that he was ‘eternally grateful for me for showing him he is worthy of love.'”-

– His words are an expression of his style, not of his substance. If it was his genuine experience that he felt worthy of love because of you.. he’d still be in a relationship with you.

Saying what he said after the breakup is meant to appease .. the opponent, so to speak, as in saying: I am breaking up with you, but thank you for being so great! It’s a common, every day making-nice strategy aimed at avoiding confrontations.

“When he dumped me…  he tried to wrap it up poetically by quoting our first Hinge conversation, hoping it would appease me“- his motivation: to appease, his style: poetic.

“He claimed they never made anything official but that she…”- what he claimed was not necessarily true.

“I still feel like he might have used me as a rebound to get back at her in his mind, even unknowingly.(I know, I’m doing it again. I think I make a lot of fatalistic conclusions..)”- conclusions based on his style (not substance); on what he claimed.

“I think I make a lot of fatalistic conclusions so as to try to gain control)”- try to gain control over what?

“The visuals remind me of the 2007 Sweeney Todd film with the character of Johanna being locked in her bedroom, singing to a bird in a cage and looking wistfully outside her window seeing people going about their lives below“-

– it’s like you being locked in (your life suspended), you being the bird in a cage, a bird meant to fly and be free. And locked in and caged, you are looking wistfully outside the window (looking at your ex’s social media activity), seeing him going about his life and wishing he had freed you and taken you with him to freedom.

“She sings through her pain and it gives her hope, even if it’s all she has. I always really resonated with the idea of being JUST out of reach for what you long for and feeling powerless to your surroundings”-  Just out of reach of freedom, feeling powerless to reach freedom on your own (without the ex): Learned Helplessness.

It reminds me of the real-life imagery I read about in regard to learned helplessness: a baby elephant’s leg was chained so he could only walk around a small area. He tried again and again to walk farther but being a baby, he was too weak to break the chain. And so, he stopped trying.  As the baby grew into a big, strong adult elephant, still chained, he kept walking around the small area that the chain allowed him to walk. Big and strong, he could have easily broken the chain and set himself free, but he didn’t know that he was strong. He still believed that he was as weak as he was when he was a baby.

Do you resonate with this imagery?

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

Your mood probably has a lot to do with sleeping too little as a result of the nicotine and wine you consumed yesterday, and your menstrual cycle is part of it because of the hormones released.. and the reading from the book overwhelmed you.. A combination of things. I think that you should have some calming tea if you have that, or warm milk.. a hot bath and relax, calming music maybe.. Try to not think about any of what troubles you.. will you?

anita

Dear Simon: You are doing fine. Simply address the member you are responding to, just you did above: “(member’s name)____..response to the particular member.

anita

Dear Seaturtle:

* A comment following having just read the ending of your post from this morning, and having just completed my long reply this morning (about to submit it in a moment): you had a tough time most recently and probably a challenging day at work, so please rest and take your time before reading this reply. You can postpone reading it to tomorrow, or even longer. Also, you can read one part, and read another part at a later time. No reason to rush.

I will respond to your 2 responses in this reply:

“I feel like there are two battles I am fighting at the same time. One being the majority of what has been on this forum, projecting F into N and all those consequences, then battle two of even if I am totally healed is N the right person for me… one (battle) needs to happen before two can“-

-it’s about removing the projection of F into N and seeing N for who he is as the projection is peeled off of him. It can’t be a neat process where one step is completed before the other can begin. it will be a mix of both happening.

“I am not sure if my feeling that N doesn’t understand me outside of my cage is me projecting F into him or if it is what is really happening, or both!”- do you understand yourself outside of your cage, do you have a clear image/ understanding of who you are outside the cage?

I mean, if you haven’t fully lived outside the cage yet (beyond doing art, acting in a play, etc.) then you only have a feeling/ an impression, here and there, of what it would feel like, look like, sound like…?

“At this moment in time, I would like to focus on battle one, as we have been doing. I want to heal my relationship with hatchling, gain her trust, even if that means losing N. I just really want to be clear on what hatchling needs before I make that drastic decision though because he means a lot to Seaturtle“- reads like a sensible plan!

“Have you read the book the Untethered Soul?“- I heard of the book but didn’t read it.

“When you phrase it this way, that hatchling is operating in me as an observer“-

– I wasn’t clear when I wrote: “becoming aware of hatchling and how she operates within you as an observer, observing her from some distance“:  I didn’t mean that hatchling should operate in you as an observer. I meant the other way around. Back to the example of the child throwing a temper tantrum in the supermarket, if there is a parent around observing the child, then the parent can make sensible decisions for the child. But if the child is there all by herself (akin to an adult who is completely identified with her inner-child, no distance/ separation  between the two), the child will not make sensible choices for herself.

“would it be correct to say that both hatchling and Seaturtle observe each other then and also both act?“- I am sorry about not being clear in the sentence I wrote because it takes away from correct understanding. It is not hatchling’s job to observe Seaturtle any more than it is a real-life child’s job to observe and understand and take care of a parent. It is Seaturtle’s job to observe and understand hatchling.

“Are drug addicts/alcoholics run by their inner child?“- initially, yes. But after addiction develops, they are run by the addiction itself.

“Sometimes after what has felt like a long day I crave a couple glasses of wine, I wonder if giving in to this want is in response to hatchling having a sort of tantrum? Or even actual food/ice cream cravings, are all non essential cravings hatchling?“-hatchling needs to feel better and food, ice cream and wine (not necessarily at the same time, lol) makes her feel better, this is why she wants those things. It is Seaturtle’s job (much like it’d be a responsible parent’s job) to decide how much of these things to allow hatchling to have at any one time.

“Is proper self care the answer to unhealthy cravings in general?“- responsible supervision and parenting of hatchling by Seaturtle is an essential part of self-care. Seaturtle needs to not be too strict with hatchling. Better give hatchling some ice- cream twice a week, let’s say, instead of.. never. The latter will create cravings.

“and maybe even addiction?”- treating addiction is complex.

“Why does hatchling make herself known outside of the home, how is she more known outside of the right context (home)?”- hatchling needs to be free to be herself (to be known to herself and to others) in every context, every day. She gets to be herself when drawing, painting and acting in a play, but she needs more opportunities to be her true self.. opportunities to discover who she is (to become known to herself).

“Is the positive attention that she/I need personal to hatchling? Or is it just typical self care like spa days, keeping your home and body clean in general?“- it is both, personal positive attention and general self-care. If indeed, hatchling’s experience with her father is as significant to her as I believe it is, then the personal attention she needs is to be heard, to be able to tell her story as it truly is.

“I am trying to imagine as if she were a child out of my body, how to make her feel cared for and to trust me. I want to be there for myself. I want to be here for me“- you’d need to be there not for your father (still trying to please him, still seeing him more positively than he is), but be there for hatchling and listen to what she is trying to tell you about this very important person (her father) and relationship in her life.

“Yes they (F and N) are similar in the way of being money driven in their careers. Whereas I am taking a different route, I am trying to follow what I love and I am narrowing in on it“-

– it may be that you are compensating your father for having a different daughter (different from F) by giving your father a similar future son-in-law  (similar to your father). It may be that you are giving yourself the freedom to be different from your father because of this exchange.

“Saturday morning N and I went to breakfast. We had a nice night together after my play, and I love going out to breakfast in the morning…  I asked him, ‘through all the parts of living together… why did you decide to stay with me?‘ and he said ‘Because we always came to a compromise, you listened to my perspective and understood in the end, you are really good at that.’..  my following thoughts:… Do I want this relationship if he only loves me because I am fun, pretty, and above average at communicating?. These thoughts are not new, but it was unpleasant to feel them when we are having a good morning”-

– my understanding: hatchling has been trying so hard to gain her father’s approval by behaving in ways that would gain his approval, ways that didn’t feel true to her, or didn’t yet feel true to her (hatchling needed time and opportunities to become her true, genuine self).  Whenever she succeeded in getting F’s (temporary, conditional) approval, she said to herself something like: he didn’t approve of the true me, he approved of the fake me. The result: even when you received his approval at any one time, you never received approval for who you truly were/ who you were yet to be.

“my in-box version. I describe this as my behaviors that made my dad happy, when I was (trying to be) money driven, athletic outdoors, sporty, a left-brained thinker, believing that feelings are mostly not real, working hard, no breaks!“-

– hatchling didn’t have the opportunity to discover, over time, if she is money driven or not. She didn’t feel safe to discover, to develop, to become herself. There was a more urgent need: to get F’s approval, so.. without knowing who she is, without becoming through experience who she genuinely is/ would be, she took on behaviors that were not (and could not have been) authentic to her.

“in general, the box required me to live in a more masculine energy, and that is not who I am“- living in the box/ cage is all about trying to get F’s approval, and masculine energy is what seemed to get his (temporary, conditional) approval.

“Now here are examples of him (N) encouraging my in-the-box version (aka what my dad would also say): -M asked me if I wanted to join an indoor soccer team with her and I told N and he said ‘you should do that!’ in an excited tone… I am having a hard time coming up with specifics, by I feel he supports me in the box..”- in all your examples,  I see nothing that suggests that N supports you living in a cage, or of placing your femininity in a cage. So far, seems to me that this part is all an inaccurate projection of F into N.

“This morning I feel not well in my head… I smoked a vape for the first time a couple weeks ago after drinking for fun with friends, the combination was so relaxing I craved it again about 4 times since, twice now I have been alone. I don’t feel good after I feel dry and my throat hurts, I don’t want to be addicted to this drug so I limit it to when I drink wine“-

– I suggested earlier to allow hatchling some ice cream twice a week or so, so that she doesn’t crave ice cream. I am not extending this suggestion to vaping. Inhaling a dangerous substance by choice is not ice cream. Better prevent a nicotine addiction by never vaping again. It’s okay to limit wine but it’s.. very unwise to limit vaping: don’t vape/ smoke at all.

“I sell art in a gallery and it was first fun, now I feel it is mundane and boring“- I want to make a point here in regard to being authentic: being authentic does not mean always or even often feeling excited. Being authentic, living an authentic life includes doing what is beneficial to do when it’s boring to do. Being authentically bored.. is part of being authentic.

“I began reading my inner child book I recently started…  But the book took me down a dark path…  my body literally had a millisecond of a seizure…  my body just fully twitched. I finished the chapter, with a feeling like I am not in control of this terror I feel inside…  I feel like hatchling is terrified”- put the book away and don’t read from it anymore. This book, of the self-help genre,  I imagine (didn’t read it) is not helpful to you. It overwhelmed hatchling… She needs small pieces of information, a bit at a time.. not a whole book thrown at her.

Whenever you read my posts, if you feel distressed, take a break, don’t keep going.

“I do not feel good this morning, but I can’t call out of work again. Maybe my cycling class will help me sleep tonight. I hope it is a low maintenance day at work. My vibrations feel low and threatened”- when you have a chance, after work.. or tomorrow, whenever it is convenient for you,  let me know how your day go, will you?

anita