And there we find your stuckness which you have turned into a life philosophy

Yes, i expected that you gonna say that, you see it as something bad, i see it as the truth, my stuckness isn’t this, its lack of reward, lack of purpose, but don’t believe me

 

you are a victim of your circumstance while no one else is  – the blessed normal’s

I didn’t say that, but im gonna give you an example, a reality, anita suffering wasn’t only by her parents, i even dare say it wasn’t that at all, i like to imagine evil exist, and it could be infected to a child, what hurt her the most (in my opinion) is the normal people, the constant misunderstood and blaming and shaming, because she expected to be helped by them, because she expected them to be good, and they are, thier intention is good, society just brainwashed thier values and beliefs, that made them misunderstood and blame her for her own suffering, normal people who did those evil things to her, they aren’t so good are they?

 

you think i feel im a victim and won’t do anything about my suffering, you are wrong, i think its the truth im a victim and i won’t do anything not because of that, but because life is shit, and i hate it all, and you know what, fuck connection, i don’t want it, you can have it.

You dislike the idea discovering that others have already had similar thoughts and ideas as your

I dislike liying, which is what people do when they compare, if you gonna compare, provide evidence, the only evidence im gonna accept is that if you live the same way i do, think the same way i do, react the same way i do, act thr same way i do, do you?

 

My evidence of being unique is clear in what i believe and what i value, and NO its not because i wanted to be unique, i didn’t exactly choose to be a Muslim then be an atheist then be a skeptic, dismissing any human made label because i don’t identify with i, i tried to fit in with society, not just in real life, online too, but i realized its full of shit, do you want more proof of my difference?

because you rejected everyone (except anita)

And why only anita that i didn’t reject? Because she understood, she had similar experience herself, she accepted, liked me, never projected nor judged, if its a me problem, i wouldn’t find anyone that will agree with me, especially someone that we both know that is intelligent.

 

Those people tried to help you,

I know, but thier help isn’t needed, thier help isn’t help, not to me.

 

 I said there is a way to get out of your misery

Yes, by watching YouTube and meditate everyday, i hate this, i can’t control how sick it makes me feel.

 

An animal doesn’t love itself in the way humans do

I don’t believe am in animal, it’s just an exaggeration, to what i sacrificed in order to live, sacrificed my feelings and desires.

 

So how are you an animal?

My defintion of an animal is this “a living thing who only main goal is survival” a huamn to me, is “something greater, who can get over his animalistic desires” so huamn should have greater goal other then survival, if that isn’t met, i think its best that he off himself, if he isn’t living as human.

 

And if others don’t accept it, you believe they don’t accept you

Who is the other you?

 

If the person has the intention to heal, they can do a lot of work by themselves

I don’t, and i explained why, its something i can’t change, because i don’t want to, i don’t want to heal because i believe its bullshit, i also believe that the end is the same, and that i shouldn’t really bother with changing something, these belief, were inherited, by my environment and genes, though you don’t like to hear that, its too complicated, too troubling for your world view, so i will say what you like, its my fault, i did this, i alone.

 

It doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you live in Iraq

Funny, a friend of mine who has GAD, i told him there is a way to relieve this, he was like “no i will have this the rest of my life, i feel like its gonna kill me one day” he had the same mindset, close minded, doesn’t subscribe to this positive stuff.

 

my big sister who had pain in her teeths, refused to go to the doctor for over two years, and developed apathy, when i asked her why don’t you just go, she replied “i don’t like doctors, they gonna start advice me on how i should take care of my teeths” i told her that the longer she have this pain, the more apathy she developed, and if you develop enough there will be a point of no return, she replied “im already there”

 

My little sister, who spend the whole day, not even saying a word to anyone, hardly even care about living, more apathetic then i ever was, so shut off.

 

So no its not where i live, because environment doesn’t shape me at all, if i told you, i am the least depressed person in the family,  you won’t believe me.

 

But even this won’t make you accept me, or change how you view me, no matter what i say, you will still believe i don’t like myself.

 

you too have access to those resources. But you simply don’ want it.

Because i desperately want the other option, the people option, to be accepted and understood, to be loved, and i can’t seem to accept anything less, its so lonely to watch videos, i want people for god sake, connection.

 

If you fully and completely accepted yourself, you wouldn’t be looking for acceptance from people online

So would you live completely alone, loving yourself and accepting yourself, knowing that most people won’t, i thought we are social animals, this is just frustrating, no matter what reasons i give, you still convinced of this.

 

You wouldn’t want me – a random stranger on the internet – to like you,

 

You aren’t just a complete stranger, you are human, and im human, i would feel good knowing a human likes me, to challenge my belief that says “most people won’t”, knowing that its because of who i am, not because of anything else, i wish i was something you would like, i truely do, i wish that i had the desire to change to be liked by a person like you, not only you but most people, the thing is, i know that somethings can make people love me, some superficial things, money, looks, but i sadly don’t subscribe to this kinda superficial shit, i wish i did, but i know if they like me because of these reasons, it wouldn’t matter.

 

Not only you don’t accept me, you never will, and you represent most people, because this mentally is common, if you are true, that i don’t love myself, and that im wrong with my reasoning (you don’t believe/ dismiss my arguments) anita wouldn’t agree with me, she wouldn’t have to continue talking to me if she didn’t think  im honest, maybe, Just maybe, you are wrong? You ever thought of that? But no, you are very smart to be wrong, you will never drop your belief that i don’t love myself, no matter how much reasons and arguments i gave, you just ignore them, it seems, hmm… i don’t know, arrogant?

 

Even though i dropped mine about that you are a norime, and continue talking to you, and never made fun of your belief, tell me, if i was super nice, super polite, but had the same beliefs and lifestyle, would you like me? You won’t answer ofcourse, now you know why i called you a norime, now i know that it was best to avoid replaying to you, just makes me sad.

 

Why do i still try then? Because i like you, sadly, i do, i like the person you are, what you do here, how nice and understanding you are, i like you emotionally, but this can fade away, when the mind part interfere, when i decides its not worth it, when i control my feelings, and explain to myself, that it isn’t my fault she won’t like me.

 

This is how much im desperate for human connection, this is how much im desperate for females to like me, but i won’t let it control my actions, i won’t do anything, to be liked, i will only do what i want, what i please, its misery, but at least im in control, not them.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Murtaza.

‘I’ want change, ‘I’ cant change, ‘I’ don’t want to change.  The ‘I’ does not exit, the self does not exit???

I suppose you mean exist?

To make it clear, the human part of me desire things, basic needs, i need those, not to survive, but to live better, but there is a belief/desire/goal that conflict with these, lately this conflict becomes lesser and lesser, those goals/belief/desire won over the human needs/desires.

 

Only you can define the word self

What self? I believe there is no center of a self, but only desire/belief/goals that was pushed to you by luck, and yes the one i stand for are also pushed by environment and genes, so “I” really didn’t create anything, just following my programming.

 

not the ego, not thoughts, not emotions, not even experiences, only a means to communicate.

Here we go with the abstract, i think when you talk to people, you should use a language they understand, not everyone is smart and abstract like you.

 

So where is your doubt?

When i finished last time post and posted it, after feeling a little sad, i said to myself “why make such post, i clearly don’t believe in most of what i said?” “Who cares?”

 

A person that can accept the reality that nothing is certain and learns to embraces doubt would not experience so much existential angst.

I actually don’t experience such existential angst, i live very comfortablly, but when i right a post i tend to exaggerate, most of these thoughts are in the back of my head, that appears very little in my life.

 

Perhaps that is the next ‘logical’ step – practice embracing the doubt you assume your living in.

No lol, the next logical step is to do it, anything less would be problematic, embracing or not, i will still live the same way, the belief/desire/goal, won’t be changed, its a self defeating thing, in order to change them, you have to change them first.

 

even surprise… Curiosity, maybe the next moment will be different.

Living life, i understood its an illusion, the next moment is the same, my life is the same, my values and beliefs is the same, im getting older, life getting hotter and harder, and i still have this idea in the back of my head, that has no proof, “the future is open, anything could happen” what i fail to understand, is nothing gonna happen unless i do something about it.

 

Curiosity, I think implies hope,

i don’t label it as “hope” or “good” only truth, the truth is, wether i like it or not, the future is open, and you can’t know it no matter what. But i understood that’s not entirely true, you can guess the future based on your present desires and beliefs, and well mine are fucked, so yeah

 

If ‘its’ all illusion pick a good one.

I refuse to pick any illusions, i refuse to follow anything that aren’t true, if that means misery, so be it, i won’t fool myself, just to live, i won’t cope with a fantasy, not anymore.

 

You appear to be at constant war with yourself

Though first you have to define “yourself” cause i got no definition

 

If you say its your nature, basic needs, dreams and desires, i wouldn’t agree, because i don’t like to be told who to be, or what to be, i will be an animal in people eyes, just because i want to, now the good question would be, why? Why i want such thing? Is this why can be changed? No, why? Cause the person having this, sees no problem with it, what else to do then? Tell me, peter, whats the next logical step? And be harsh, i didn’t see your replay as harsh.

 

Probably a illusion

The thing is, without this illusion, without any illusions and false hopes, life is just one ugly bitch.

 

You want relationship but only on your terms which isn’t relationship

My terms are fair though, not realistic though, at least not where i live, but yeah i dropped the idea of relationships long time ago, when i knew its my falut, It would be helpful if you quote me, to understand which part that i said that make you think that.

 

You desire dialog while determined not to look past your certainties,

I have no certainties, only doubts, lots and lots of doubts, about everything and anything, a never ending doubt.

 

and then act surprised when you didn’t get anywhere.

Never surprised, i actually expected this lifestyle, and expected it will be this bad, what i didn’t expect, is that i will face the consequences more then often, should’ve expected that as well, but it would take years to do so.

 

I imagine your reply that only a normal person would think that.

No, its only a defense mechanism, you have to understand where i live, how people see me, and what they assume when i tell just one thing about my life, imagine being told lies after lies after lies, and the lies being pushed as the truth, the truth wouldn’t matter anymore, the lie became the truth, and if you ever think differently, then you deserve isolation, misunderstood, judged, blamed, shamed, gulited, thats the normal, and when i told you, you trigger it, by blaming, you didn’t mean to, and im sorry for my response, but it hurts.

 

Your life philosophy is contradiction and unskillful even if reasoned or illusion

I would suggest otherwise, because here i am, alive, so it was skillfull by making me survive, is it true? I don’t think so, is it helpful? Definitely, the more i live, the more i realize i made the best solution, the second best, you know the first.

 

So honest with your self you lost sight of your self

What self? The one was giving to me by society? The one that was giving by my father and mother parenting? Thier qualities and desires and dreams? Yikes, i perfer the one i created, the one that i control, the non people pleaser, the not weak one, the not so given up to societal ideas, the one that doesn’t care wether basic needs are met or not, the unhuman one, the one that is nearly a god, a monster, an animal, the one that doesn’t care about anything, doesn’t have any values or dreams, the one thats not under any control, the one that is the only person i trust, the one that makes me feel good, the one that is so comforting, the one that is smart, and doesn’t make luck decide his distany.

 

I sound crazy, well i might be, the thing is, if i am, there is no solution, and people help often are just projection (i don’t mean you) they often tells you what you need to do, because they value such thing, they often advice you, using thier logic and thier point of view, i realized “help” is just a made up word, a made up concept, for the people who believe such illusion, such silly idea, who can a person helps me? With words? With actions? All doesn’t work, all is meaninglessness.

 

One half your world is real the other half denied expression.

I had to deny my basic needs, either way im not getting them, so why not remove them?

 

You use words to define, contain and make things small.  For you I wonder if the map has not become the territory

“Nothing is true, everything is permitted” add to that a silliness, a sense that life is a complete joke, sometimes unfunny, a clown theater, so yes, i treat life, as everything is just a joke, never serious.

 

I don’t mean to me harsh, or maybe I do. I don’t know, it happens

You were nice, at least you didn’t write anything abstract lol.

 

What is it you really expect from such dialog

Honestly ? The worse, which is either being misunderstood, or the expected thing, which is to be ignored, sometimes i will just make a post to prove to myself the latter, and that norimes, truely don’t understand me, or don’t want anything to do with me, imagine this is online, so what happens when i say half this, in a country that value work and being a man, that believe in a supernatural things, and anyone who don’t believe it, is either crazy or just pathetic, because he is going to hell, im way ahead of my time, too ahead that its impossible to live with such people.

 

My only friend, the only person who looked like me, lived like me, thinked like me, decide to actually do it, the thing is, what he said “you either die or live long enough to humiliate yourself” i Choosed the latter, i choosed apathy, to sacrifice my basic needs and feelings and desires and dreams, in order to survive, what a great cost, soild my humanity for few years, what a silly decision, now i can’t go back, nothing gonna stop me now.

Dear anita, you shared that you don’t like sharing, that you hate it, and only do it to help people, but i feel (assumption) you want to be helped just like you help people, you want people in the taproom to talk to you, treat you the same way you do to them (i hope some of them do), i wonder why you hate it? Why you hate something you want ? Because you wanted it for a long time? Thats what comes to my mind (you shared that once your uncle asked you what you are thinking, and you still remember how good it felt)

 

I was thinking what made anita talk to me in the first place, (i feel new appreciation for you) you said, i wonder if you ever thought about wanting to be helped when you saw me, that i could accept your anger towards your mother (these are just doubts in my head, its a possibility that happened to me in the past, so excuse me for raising them) maybe its just that you wanted to help me, after all you do that with every member, i honestly don’t know how we get to this conversation, it developed fast.

 

I think that I am like Max in the movie- emotions make me anxious, relationships alarm me. I prefer to avoid them, and I do. There is a person I care so much about, in another country, and yet, I don’t call

I understand, if im mary and max told me that my messages makes him anxious, i would either talk about something that doesn’t make him anxious, or just stop.

 

Maybe you can help me with this. (I never brought this up with anyone, this is the first time, online or irl)

I can only ask things that will rasie some questions in your head, sadly its limited how i can help you through the internet, its even limited in real life, i wonder what is those feelings, that makes you very overwhelmed that you don’t wanna experience them (or is it something else you?)

 

as is, a person like me needs a lot of alone-time and can’t take too much together time, prefers groups of people to one-to-one. Would that be something you would have wanted.. with someone (much younger) like me

Definitely, i understand the age gap, though you are the only person that meet both criteria, the intellectual and emotional sides, in my past when i talked to females, most of them meet only one side (the emotional mostly since its easier) i had to drop my standards to talk to them, to drop a little of my persona, set it a side, never doing that again, the emotional side doesn’t matter to me no more, since it was very much inherited, the intellectual side however, the one that i control, in my mind, we are compatible, in my feelings, we are compatible, in real life its not possible, but i just like to acknowledge it, we don’t have to do anything, just talk, until we ran out.

 

as is, a person like me needs a lot of alone-time and can’t take too much together time, prefers groups of people to one-to-one.

If we are talking about a hypothetical scenario, and that we are both close, and there was no age gap (which it wouldn’t be possible im afraid but its hypothetical) i would give you as much alone time as you like, and the one on one is a downside, but its definitely worth it when it comes with the whole package.

 

anger that was expressed on my face

I would definitely like when you be angry (lol), i laugh when my little sister gets angry (its only happes when i care about the person)

 

what is your experience with women, physically

None lol.

 

you are referring to, is it in regard to love online or irl

Online, when people can be themselves.

 

Murtaza, had one love relationship with one woman irl (and the relationship ended), then you would have been more likely to believe that it can happen again, with another woman.

More likely? Yes, emotionally? Yes, intellectually? No, one experience doesn’t change the facts.

 

I tried to edit the post above, and remove the “I would have run to you”

Why? Its cute, in my mind its a hypothetical scenario, it will never happen, its more like a wish, i wish the same too, but we can acknowledge that wish (just like you did above) no need for further actions.

 

it’s just that I felt guilty

For what? I thought you were afraid (this is a public forum, and an online conversation) from this limitation.

 

no wonder it is so difficult for you, full of youth,  to be caged in depression

What i understood is that you never lived your youth, and that now those desiers and feelings is  youth? That you somehow trying to relive what you missed?

 

these youthful emotions,  are not gone now

I don’t believe there is a certain age where these emotions go, why do you call them youthful emotions? Why not just emotions? This assumes there is a limitation to one  could feel when he hit a certain age (its similar when someone puts a label to himself, and then when this label “as all other lables” becomes unsteady, he changes but the label doesn’t, then he will struggle, trying to  fit into the label “youth,old”)

 

what is one to do with an emotion (energy- in motion) where there is nowhere for the motion to go to, suspended in the air, nowhere for it to land?

If its more bad to feel them to the person then good, then yes whats the point, a person should always peruse the best possible outcome.

 

In my experience, i would just feel them, not thinking about what comes next or anything, just trying to live the moment. (This is not an advice, lol) i think you best.

 

a way that requires thinking outside the box.. so that you can.. even if it is for one day, spread your wings and fly up in the blue sky, going someplace.

The first thing came to my mind is that “i create a rich fantasy world, then i won’t be dependent on people for my needs” but i already did that, i don’t think there is a way, its better to give up then to chase a very very rare possibility, ofcourse i can increase or decrease such possibility, but i refuse sadly.

 

This post was made possible, in part, by a bit of red wine

You makes me wanna try it.

 

I posted earlier, for you to not be sad, i made a lot of mistakes in this post, which i hope you correct (i made a lot of assumptions, said things that may not be true, or hurtful)