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  • #384422
    Murtaza
    Participant

    I miss people, the only real connection i had was when i argued with people here in my last post, i don’t believe that loneliness is something someone chooses (unless he really hate himself) its something like a curse, its a forever thing, for me at least.

     

    Something about arguments that make it feel good, the other person has to understand you first, to know you first, something that doesn’t happen quite often, sure this is not the only result, they could misunderstand you, make it worse, but its worth it i guess, not really, because even when they do understand you, the “feeling good” will only lasts for a short term, i perfer to not pay for a temporary reward, i perfer to adopt, im paying either way.

     

    Either way im losing, choose A and pay so much with a potential reward, choose B and pay less with no reward, i guess the devil you know is better then the one you don’t.

    If i could format my brain, to be a normal person with normal thinking, with normal beliefs and values, i would, but i also won’t allow this, with my current brain, if there is a place that make you like that, a place where they torture you to change your beliefs and values, to make you normal, i just hope that such place, will have garnered results, my mind doesn’t like doubt, it would be worth it though, to have your basic needs met, just this, i just eant this.

     

    I don’t know what it feels like to have this, maybe its just a fantasy, just another illusion, it never felt that good, life i mean, it was always mediocre, maybe i have the wrong idea on what life is, because i see nothing worth fighting for, nothing worth the trouble, i bet if i had my basic needs, i won’t be satisfied, there is always something, i honestly don’t know anymore, about anything, i forgot everything, i lost my basic needs, solid my soul, I did this.

     

    I always wanted to know what it feels like being dead alive, well here you go, i only lasted this long out of curiosity, i just wanna see how would i become in the future, it could be worse, its gonna be worse.

     

    Believe me im no where of being suicidal, a normal person would be suicidal, a sane person, a friend of mine, a sane person, told me that i should really do it, what he said wasn’t coming out of hate, but actual concern, he tried so many times to change my views and beliefs.

     

    But no, i developed apathy, i live, but worse, i live with the consequences of my actions, there is no blaming of other people, it’s all on me, nothing will change my mind, nothing will make me move, nothing will make me do it.

     

    The funny thing is, my decision, the path i choose, was so expensive, the other option would be even more expensive to me, its funny because no matter what you choose, you lose, i might as well flipped a coin.

     

    People see me as nothing, a waste, a loser, no actually they don’t even see me, they want nothing to do with me, how can i get love and help if the other party think you don’t deserve it, if the other party think you should change, to fit what society said to be good, to follow your animalistic qualities, work marry and reproduce, sacrifice your individuality, sacrifice yourself, to have basic needs, i might as well just kill myself, but i won’t, sadly, i don’t care that much about myself, i don’t love myself that much, just enough so i can survive, all about that, nothing else matters, at least no one could blame me for that, its in our gene, i wish to prove that im more then my genes, im more then animal who wants to survive, but sadly this is just a lie, another fantasy.

     

    I will probably lose interest after making this post, it happens.

    #384438
    Peter
    Participant

    If i could format my brain, to be a normal person with normal thinking, with normal beliefs and values, i would, but i also won’t allow this, with my current brain, if there is a place that make you like that, a place where they torture you to change your beliefs and values, to make you normal, i just hope that such place, will have garnered results, my mind doesn’t like doubt, it would be worth it though, to have your basic needs met, just this, i just eant this.

    I don’t know what it feels like to have this, maybe its just a fantasy, just another illusion,

    Probably a illusion.

    You appear to be at constant war with yourself. If I could change my brain I would… but I won’t allow this. You won’t allow this, it can’t be done anyway and you don’t want to.  You want relationship but only on your terms which isn’t relationship.   You desire dialog while determined not to look past your certainties, certainties that close the door to dialog.  You have a tendency to say  you want what you don’t want…  You seem unaware that your tendency is to push and pull at the same time and then act surprised when you didn’t get anywhere.

    Your certainty as to what is “Normal” is often insulting… I imagine your reply that only a normal person would think that.
    Your life philosophy is contradiction and unskillful even if reasoned or illusion.

    Fear is to courage as doubt is to Faith – Faith not necessary in a higher power but what you lean on in times of doubt and uncertainty – That may be curiosity or Mind… though mind does not appear to be holding you up. It is understandable why you dislike (fear) doubt.

    So honest with your self you lost sight of your self. A man of the five senses where only the objective is real even though the objective senses can only be experienced subjectively.  One half your world is real the other half denied expression.

    You use words to define, contain and make things small.  For you I wonder if the map has not become the territory.

    I don’t mean to me harsh, or maybe I do. I don’t know, it happens.

    What is it you really expect from such dialog

    #384439
    Peter
    Participant

    Sorry Murtaza. Woke on the wrong side of the bed as they say and in a negative space. I’m afraid I was doing a lot of projecting

    #384469
    Murtaza
    Participant

    You appear to be at constant war with yourself

    Though first you have to define “yourself” cause i got no definition

     

    If you say its your nature, basic needs, dreams and desires, i wouldn’t agree, because i don’t like to be told who to be, or what to be, i will be an animal in people eyes, just because i want to, now the good question would be, why? Why i want such thing? Is this why can be changed? No, why? Cause the person having this, sees no problem with it, what else to do then? Tell me, peter, whats the next logical step? And be harsh, i didn’t see your replay as harsh.

     

    Probably a illusion

    The thing is, without this illusion, without any illusions and false hopes, life is just one ugly bitch.

     

    You want relationship but only on your terms which isn’t relationship

    My terms are fair though, not realistic though, at least not where i live, but yeah i dropped the idea of relationships long time ago, when i knew its my falut, It would be helpful if you quote me, to understand which part that i said that make you think that.

     

    You desire dialog while determined not to look past your certainties,

    I have no certainties, only doubts, lots and lots of doubts, about everything and anything, a never ending doubt.

     

    and then act surprised when you didn’t get anywhere.

    Never surprised, i actually expected this lifestyle, and expected it will be this bad, what i didn’t expect, is that i will face the consequences more then often, should’ve expected that as well, but it would take years to do so.

     

    I imagine your reply that only a normal person would think that.

    No, its only a defense mechanism, you have to understand where i live, how people see me, and what they assume when i tell just one thing about my life, imagine being told lies after lies after lies, and the lies being pushed as the truth, the truth wouldn’t matter anymore, the lie became the truth, and if you ever think differently, then you deserve isolation, misunderstood, judged, blamed, shamed, gulited, thats the normal, and when i told you, you trigger it, by blaming, you didn’t mean to, and im sorry for my response, but it hurts.

     

    Your life philosophy is contradiction and unskillful even if reasoned or illusion

    I would suggest otherwise, because here i am, alive, so it was skillfull by making me survive, is it true? I don’t think so, is it helpful? Definitely, the more i live, the more i realize i made the best solution, the second best, you know the first.

     

    So honest with your self you lost sight of your self

    What self? The one was giving to me by society? The one that was giving by my father and mother parenting? Thier qualities and desires and dreams? Yikes, i perfer the one i created, the one that i control, the non people pleaser, the not weak one, the not so given up to societal ideas, the one that doesn’t care wether basic needs are met or not, the unhuman one, the one that is nearly a god, a monster, an animal, the one that doesn’t care about anything, doesn’t have any values or dreams, the one thats not under any control, the one that is the only person i trust, the one that makes me feel good, the one that is so comforting, the one that is smart, and doesn’t make luck decide his distany.

     

    I sound crazy, well i might be, the thing is, if i am, there is no solution, and people help often are just projection (i don’t mean you) they often tells you what you need to do, because they value such thing, they often advice you, using thier logic and thier point of view, i realized “help” is just a made up word, a made up concept, for the people who believe such illusion, such silly idea, who can a person helps me? With words? With actions? All doesn’t work, all is meaninglessness.

     

    One half your world is real the other half denied expression.

    I had to deny my basic needs, either way im not getting them, so why not remove them?

     

    You use words to define, contain and make things small.  For you I wonder if the map has not become the territory

    “Nothing is true, everything is permitted” add to that a silliness, a sense that life is a complete joke, sometimes unfunny, a clown theater, so yes, i treat life, as everything is just a joke, never serious.

     

    I don’t mean to me harsh, or maybe I do. I don’t know, it happens

    You were nice, at least you didn’t write anything abstract lol.

     

    What is it you really expect from such dialog

    Honestly ? The worse, which is either being misunderstood, or the expected thing, which is to be ignored, sometimes i will just make a post to prove to myself the latter, and that norimes, truely don’t understand me, or don’t want anything to do with me, imagine this is online, so what happens when i say half this, in a country that value work and being a man, that believe in a supernatural things, and anyone who don’t believe it, is either crazy or just pathetic, because he is going to hell, im way ahead of my time, too ahead that its impossible to live with such people.

     

    My only friend, the only person who looked like me, lived like me, thinked like me, decide to actually do it, the thing is, what he said “you either die or live long enough to humiliate yourself” i Choosed the latter, i choosed apathy, to sacrifice my basic needs and feelings and desires and dreams, in order to survive, what a great cost, soild my humanity for few years, what a silly decision, now i can’t go back, nothing gonna stop me now.

    #384496
    TeaK
    Participant

    Hi Murtaza,

    I see you’re reaching out, wanting something, and when Peter asked you what is it what you want, you replied:

    Honestly ? The worse, which is either being misunderstood, or the expected thing, which is to be ignored, sometimes i will just make a post to prove to myself the latter, and that norimes, truely don’t understand me, or don’t want anything to do with me,

    In a previous thread (Life without dopamine), you said this about other people’s posts:

    What my motivation making this post you may ask? Boredom, pure boredom, i will get the same horrible answers i got in my last post.

    You see how you’re creating your own reality? You say people give you horrible answers, you don’t appreciate their sincere wish to help, you call them “normies” and are totally dismissive of anything they tell you, and then logically, people don’t want to engage with you any more. So their response is that they ignore you, which is what “you expected”. But in reality, you brought about this reaction upon yourself, because honestly, why would someone want to engage with you, only to be rejected and treated disrespectfully? They rather withdraw.

    If you want to engage with people meaningfully, you’d need to stop rejecting them so completely, while believing that they are rejecting you.

     

    #384508
    Peter
    Participant

    You appear to be at constant war with yourself

    Though first you have to define “yourself” cause i got no definition

    If you say its your nature, basic needs, dreams and desires, i wouldn’t agree, because i don’t like to be told who to be, or what to be, i will be an animal in people eyes, just because i want to, now the good question would be, why? Why i want such thing? Is this why can be changed? No, why? Cause the person having this, sees no problem with it, what else to do then? Tell me, peter, whats the next logical step? .

    You make my point as your reply is a contradiction: ‘I’ want change, ‘I’ cant change, ‘I’ don’t want to change.  The ‘I’ does not exit, the self does not exit??? Only you can define the word self, and I will assume you will do so to make it small and refuse to allow the word to be transparent and expansive.

    We are smaller then small and bigger then big, – As above so below, As below so above – the riddle of the philosopher’s stone can only be answered by the one asking it. Who are you? What is the self? What is this ‘I’ that forces its way into any dialog of experience? Who had the experience, What had the experience?  ‘I’  not the ego, not thoughts, not emotions, not even experiences, only a means to communicate.

    You desire dialog while determined not to look past your certainties,

    I have no certainties, only doubts, lots and lots of doubts, about everything and anything, a never ending doubt.

    Your responses in all the posts you’ve written have never verified. I can only conclude that that is only possible when someone is certain in their answers in order to banish doubts. I imagine you only imagine you have doubts.  So where is your doubt?

    A person that can accept the reality that nothing is certain and learns to embraces doubt would not experience so much existential angst. Perhaps that is the next ‘logical’ step – practice embracing the doubt you assume your living in.

    I was thinking about what I said about the relation of  fear, courage, doubt, and faith. That faith is that something you lean on when you don’t know, aren’t certain and doubt.  Anyone who has not given in to death leans on something even if they don’t know what. You mentioned curiosity. I like that. Curiosity,  something around the corner my attract our attention, even surprise… Curiosity, maybe the next moment will be different. I often lean on that in dark uncertain moments and wonder if that is not a kind of faith.

    Curiosity, I think implies hope, even skillful hope…I  know your going to hate that and being at war with yourself imagine that you will refuse to associate hope with curiosity. If choice is possible, perhaps that is one, even a next step. If ‘its’ all illusion pick a good one.

    #384535
    Murtaza
    Participant

    I see you’re reaching out, wanting something

    Yes, i want connection.

     

    You see how you’re creating your own reality?

    Did i Choosed the people who answer me? Did i Choosed the place i live? Did i Choosed teak to answer me? To make fun of my belief because no one else believe it? Dismiss my arguments as depression and trauma? Project her values and beliefs because they are superior, because society agrees with her, because she knows more then me about my own life, a life i lived for decades, and she comes with 10 min thinking to figure it out, dare tell me how to love myself, how to live, and i should thank her, if she ever cared, she would put herself in my position, see life the way i see it, and try to understand (not advise) why and how do i live, but that’s a bit hard, all they can do is compare their suffering to mine, and somwhow coming with the conclusion that its similar, dismissing what i stand for, my mind, as depression, something that happened to them in a period of time, and then start projecting thier experience, thier point of view, on me, because they are superior, they know better, i should dismiss my mind and follow whatever they say, like a slave, and i should thank them, what a sick joke.

     

    you don’t appreciate their sincere wish to help

    Im sorry society brainwashed thier brain, mind values and beliefs, im sorry im different, im sorry that their help make me sick, disgust me, make me wanna end it.

     

    and are totally dismissive of anything they tell you

    I only dismissed what doesn’t make sense, the only reason i engaged with you because it first you said things that can be true, but then started to project, because you simply can’t accept what i stand for and what i believe, its troubling to your world view, so its my fault right? Because i am like this.

     

    So their response is that they ignore you, which is what “you expected”. But in reality, you brought about this reaction upon yourself

    Yes i did brought this upon myself, not because i said what i said, but because i Choosed to be this person.

     

    why would someone want to engage with you, only to be rejected and treated disrespectfully? They rather withdraw.

    Its funny you said that, because i feel that way about them, but my feelings doesn’t matter right? Thier feeling does, because society validate thier feelings.

     

    If you want to engage with people meaningfully, you’d need to stop rejecting them so completely, while believing that they are rejecting you.

    They are rejecting me, they reject my mind, arguments, beliefs and values, my lifestyle, everything i do or think, as depression or trauma, whats the point of even trying to make them understand if they will never accept you?, never understand you?, never care for you?, not because of any wrong in you, but because society brainwashed thier brain to think you are bad, that you are worthless, a waste, a loser, depressed.

     

    So no i don’t wanna engage with such people, and my posts are very clear, they dismiss such people from the start, to not go through this again, and the proof is, there is very few people that will accept me, most will try to change, project, and misunderstood, the proof is my past post, the proof is these posts.

    #384536
    Murtaza
    Participant

    ‘I’ want change, ‘I’ cant change, ‘I’ don’t want to change.  The ‘I’ does not exit, the self does not exit???

    I suppose you mean exist?

    To make it clear, the human part of me desire things, basic needs, i need those, not to survive, but to live better, but there is a belief/desire/goal that conflict with these, lately this conflict becomes lesser and lesser, those goals/belief/desire won over the human needs/desires.

     

    Only you can define the word self

    What self? I believe there is no center of a self, but only desire/belief/goals that was pushed to you by luck, and yes the one i stand for are also pushed by environment and genes, so “I” really didn’t create anything, just following my programming.

     

    not the ego, not thoughts, not emotions, not even experiences, only a means to communicate.

    Here we go with the abstract, i think when you talk to people, you should use a language they understand, not everyone is smart and abstract like you.

     

    So where is your doubt?

    When i finished last time post and posted it, after feeling a little sad, i said to myself “why make such post, i clearly don’t believe in most of what i said?” “Who cares?”

     

    A person that can accept the reality that nothing is certain and learns to embraces doubt would not experience so much existential angst.

    I actually don’t experience such existential angst, i live very comfortablly, but when i right a post i tend to exaggerate, most of these thoughts are in the back of my head, that appears very little in my life.

     

    Perhaps that is the next ‘logical’ step – practice embracing the doubt you assume your living in.

    No lol, the next logical step is to do it, anything less would be problematic, embracing or not, i will still live the same way, the belief/desire/goal, won’t be changed, its a self defeating thing, in order to change them, you have to change them first.

     

    even surprise… Curiosity, maybe the next moment will be different.

    Living life, i understood its an illusion, the next moment is the same, my life is the same, my values and beliefs is the same, im getting older, life getting hotter and harder, and i still have this idea in the back of my head, that has no proof, “the future is open, anything could happen” what i fail to understand, is nothing gonna happen unless i do something about it.

     

    Curiosity, I think implies hope,

    i don’t label it as “hope” or “good” only truth, the truth is, wether i like it or not, the future is open, and you can’t know it no matter what. But i understood that’s not entirely true, you can guess the future based on your present desires and beliefs, and well mine are fucked, so yeah

     

    If ‘its’ all illusion pick a good one.

    I refuse to pick any illusions, i refuse to follow anything that aren’t true, if that means misery, so be it, i won’t fool myself, just to live, i won’t cope with a fantasy, not anymore.

     

    #384539
    TeaK
    Participant

    Hi Murtaza,

    Yes, i want connection.

    With whom? Only with those who give you a positive answer to your question: “wouldn’t it be a mercy if I simply ended my life?” With everyone else, who doesn’t agree with that, you don’t want connection, you say they are brainwashed, they reject you, they feel superior to you, they want you to follow their opinion like a slave etc etc…

    They are rejecting me, they reject my mind, arguments, beliefs and values, my lifestyle, everything i do or think, as depression or trauma,

    You are offended if I say that your reasoning is partially caused by childhood trauma. But why? Many of us have experienced trauma. It doesn’t make us less. Trauma can be healed. But you despise healing because it means you’d need to change something about your life and your thinking, and you don’t want to change anything. You’re afraid that if you change, you’d lose your individuality, your uniqueness.

    But what if you’ve experienced trauma, and you’re worthy and lovable and special regardless? What if you’re not a loser, even if you’ve experienced trauma? Can you hold that seeming paradox in your mind?

     

    #384543
    Murtaza
    Participant

    With whom?

    Someone that likes me.

     

    You are offended if I say that your reasoning is partially caused by childhood trauma. But why?

    No, that’s not what you said in the past, here i accept this.

     

    But what if you’ve experienced trauma, and you’re worthy and lovable and special regardless?

    The same thing you doing here, blaming me as if i don’t love myself, your response implies thats its my falut people don’t like me, i have one word, prove it.

     

    Prove to me that people like me, love me, accept me, understand me, for who i am, despite my beliefs and values, my experience and reasoning say otherwise, not only they gonna misunderstand me, but hate me, hopefully ignore me, and believe me its not because what i say, i can be very nice, to the right people, but no matter how nice i am, they won’t like me.

     

    What if you’re not a loser

    I don’t see myself as a loser, people do, i see nothing wrong with myself, i accepted it, people have a trouble doing that, you included.

     

    But you despise healing because it means you’d need to change something about your life and your thinking, and you don’t want to change anything. You’re afraid that if you change, you’d lose your individuality, your uniqueness

    And why individuality matters to me more then “healing”?

     

    Also if i remember correctly, “healing” that you suggested was to love myself in the way you want to, i also remember you saying its impossible without people, i don’t want to give my reasoning again to why i said no people, i simply don’t have such resources, and in order to have such resources i have to change to be accepted by society, and im talking where i live, iraq, there is no one that knows the word “trauma” even if i find such person, he would be so brainwashed by society, that he will try to change me, my past therapist is a fair example, you is a fair example, no matter what i say, what excuse i give, what argument i provide, you won’t accept me, nor like me, why bother?

    #384555
    TeaK
    Participant

    Hi Murtaza,

    You are offended if I say that your reasoning is partially caused by childhood trauma. But why?

    No, that’s not what you said in the past, here i accept this.

    Good that we agree on something. I didn’t see earlier that this was one of your main problems with me, but now I see it, because you said it clearly in your last post. So now I see it.

    The same thing you doing here, blaming me as if i don’t love myself, your response implies thats its my falut people don’t like me, i have one word, prove it.

    I told you why people don’t want to communicate with you – because you rejected everyone (except anita) and in a rather rude and dismissive manner. Those people tried to help you, but you saw it as an attack on you. You believe you love yourself by wanting to stay in your misery. I said there is a way to get out of your misery, which doesn’t include suicide. But you stick to your belief, your strong conviction, that you absolutely love yourself. At the same time, you say you are animal. An animal doesn’t love itself in the way humans do. It wants to survive and procreate. You don’t want to procreate, you expressed it clearly. So how are you an animal?

    And why individuality matters to me more then “healing”?

    You expressed it before – that you value your uniqueness. And now too, you said “i Choosed to be this person”. You value this persona you created, you love this persona, you identify with it. And if others don’t accept it, you believe they don’t accept you.

    Also if i remember correctly, “healing” that you suggested was to love myself in the way you want to, i also remember you saying its impossible without people,

    If the person has the intention to heal, they can do a lot of work by themselves, for free. I suggested a lot of quality online resources, but you rejected it all. It doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you live in Iraq – you too have access to those resources. But you simply don’ want it.

    no matter what i say, what excuse i give, what argument i provide, you won’t accept me, nor like me, why bother?

    Indeed, it’s important that we first accept ourselves. If you fully and completely accepted yourself, you wouldn’t be looking for acceptance from people online. You wouldn’t want me – a random stranger on the internet – to like you, if you truly liked and loved yourself.

     

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by TeaK.
    #384563
    Murtaza
    Participant

    because you rejected everyone (except anita)

    And why only anita that i didn’t reject? Because she understood, she had similar experience herself, she accepted, liked me, never projected nor judged, if its a me problem, i wouldn’t find anyone that will agree with me, especially someone that we both know that is intelligent.

     

    Those people tried to help you,

    I know, but thier help isn’t needed, thier help isn’t help, not to me.

     

     I said there is a way to get out of your misery

    Yes, by watching YouTube and meditate everyday, i hate this, i can’t control how sick it makes me feel.

     

    An animal doesn’t love itself in the way humans do

    I don’t believe am in animal, it’s just an exaggeration, to what i sacrificed in order to live, sacrificed my feelings and desires.

     

    So how are you an animal?

    My defintion of an animal is this “a living thing who only main goal is survival” a huamn to me, is “something greater, who can get over his animalistic desires” so huamn should have greater goal other then survival, if that isn’t met, i think its best that he off himself, if he isn’t living as human.

     

    And if others don’t accept it, you believe they don’t accept you

    Who is the other you?

     

    If the person has the intention to heal, they can do a lot of work by themselves

    I don’t, and i explained why, its something i can’t change, because i don’t want to, i don’t want to heal because i believe its bullshit, i also believe that the end is the same, and that i shouldn’t really bother with changing something, these belief, were inherited, by my environment and genes, though you don’t like to hear that, its too complicated, too troubling for your world view, so i will say what you like, its my fault, i did this, i alone.

     

    It doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you live in Iraq

    Funny, a friend of mine who has GAD, i told him there is a way to relieve this, he was like “no i will have this the rest of my life, i feel like its gonna kill me one day” he had the same mindset, close minded, doesn’t subscribe to this positive stuff.

     

    my big sister who had pain in her teeths, refused to go to the doctor for over two years, and developed apathy, when i asked her why don’t you just go, she replied “i don’t like doctors, they gonna start advice me on how i should take care of my teeths” i told her that the longer she have this pain, the more apathy she developed, and if you develop enough there will be a point of no return, she replied “im already there”

     

    My little sister, who spend the whole day, not even saying a word to anyone, hardly even care about living, more apathetic then i ever was, so shut off.

     

    So no its not where i live, because environment doesn’t shape me at all, if i told you, i am the least depressed person in the family,  you won’t believe me.

     

    But even this won’t make you accept me, or change how you view me, no matter what i say, you will still believe i don’t like myself.

     

    you too have access to those resources. But you simply don’ want it.

    Because i desperately want the other option, the people option, to be accepted and understood, to be loved, and i can’t seem to accept anything less, its so lonely to watch videos, i want people for god sake, connection.

     

    If you fully and completely accepted yourself, you wouldn’t be looking for acceptance from people online

    So would you live completely alone, loving yourself and accepting yourself, knowing that most people won’t, i thought we are social animals, this is just frustrating, no matter what reasons i give, you still convinced of this.

     

    You wouldn’t want me – a random stranger on the internet – to like you,

     

    You aren’t just a complete stranger, you are human, and im human, i would feel good knowing a human likes me, to challenge my belief that says “most people won’t”, knowing that its because of who i am, not because of anything else, i wish i was something you would like, i truely do, i wish that i had the desire to change to be liked by a person like you, not only you but most people, the thing is, i know that somethings can make people love me, some superficial things, money, looks, but i sadly don’t subscribe to this kinda superficial shit, i wish i did, but i know if they like me because of these reasons, it wouldn’t matter.

     

    Not only you don’t accept me, you never will, and you represent most people, because this mentally is common, if you are true, that i don’t love myself, and that im wrong with my reasoning (you don’t believe/ dismiss my arguments) anita wouldn’t agree with me, she wouldn’t have to continue talking to me if she didn’t think  im honest, maybe, Just maybe, you are wrong? You ever thought of that? But no, you are very smart to be wrong, you will never drop your belief that i don’t love myself, no matter how much reasons and arguments i gave, you just ignore them, it seems, hmm… i don’t know, arrogant?

     

    Even though i dropped mine about that you are a norime, and continue talking to you, and never made fun of your belief, tell me, if i was super nice, super polite, but had the same beliefs and lifestyle, would you like me? You won’t answer ofcourse, now you know why i called you a norime, now i know that it was best to avoid replaying to you, just makes me sad.

     

    Why do i still try then? Because i like you, sadly, i do, i like the person you are, what you do here, how nice and understanding you are, i like you emotionally, but this can fade away, when the mind part interfere, when i decides its not worth it, when i control my feelings, and explain to myself, that it isn’t my fault she won’t like me.

     

    This is how much im desperate for human connection, this is how much im desperate for females to like me, but i won’t let it control my actions, i won’t do anything, to be liked, i will only do what i want, what i please, its misery, but at least im in control, not them.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Murtaza.
    #384566
    TeaK
    Participant

    Hi Murtaza,

    And why only anita that i didn’t reject? Because she understood, she had similar experience herself, she accepted, liked me, never projected nor judged, if its a me problem, i wouldn’t find anyone that will agree with me, especially someone that we both know that is intelligent.

    anita attended therapy, she knows the power of healing. If she had a similar experience as you, perhaps a similar kind of trauma, and she got better with the help of therapy, then why are you insisting that therapy isn’t for you, and that you don’t need it?

    tell me, if i was super nice, super polite, but had the same beliefs and lifestyle, would you like me?

    It would be nicer to communicate with you if were polite. But not if you faked politeness, but if you would see that I don’t think I am superior, but that I was sincerely trying to help you. Even if you think this help isn’t applicable to you, you could have told me (or you could have thought for yourself) – thank you, but this isn’t working for me. That would feel much better than telling me that I am brainwashed, that I think you are a loser and all the other stuff. Which is absolutely not true, because I don’t think that I am superior and I don’t think that you are a loser.

    So you are projecting stuff on me, and then judging me and condemning me for things I never said or did. Not the best way to keep communicating with people.

    #384576
    Peter
    Participant

    Murtaza you are so certain in your doubt and contradictions.  Your replies constantly asking for definition and often suggest a move to philosophy even spiritual practice which are then quickly rejected.   You dislike the idea discovering that others have already had similar thoughts and ideas as your as you must be unique. Yet nothing is new under the sun.

    #384596
    Murtaza
    Participant

    then why are you insisting that therapy isn’t for you, and that you don’t need it?

    Because A. Im not anita, she only had a similar experience that made her understood me, i didn’t say she is like me

    B. its not available, and the cost of making it available is too high for me, imagine working, and going all the trouble of making enough money to attend therapy online, which i hate, and ended up with a teak like person, who will projecte hie values and beliefs on me, without providing any arguments to why, no thanks.

     

    C. its already too late for me, i got my answers, i developed apathy, i know how to live my life, and i don’t wanna change, so what’s therapy gonna do to me?

     

    see that I don’t think I am superior, but that I was sincerely trying to help you.

    I know you aren’t, i wouldn’t have continue to talk to you, but sometimes, the way you replay appears to be the case, but now that you said you don’t, i believe you, and i know you only trying to help, i just thought i could make you see my point of view.

     

    That would feel much better than telling me that I am brainwashed

    The only reason you think there is only one way to love yourself, is not because Objectively the way you said is the only one, but because you have been told thats the right way, and you didn’t bother to think about it.

     

    that I think you are a loser and all the other stuff

    No, people think that, in where i live, thats why i look online for connection, this is why there is no point of therapy, people won’t change, and its people the problem, not me, if you think otherwise, please provide a proof, a soild argument, no matter how much therapy i get, i won’t get connection, i won’t get love, those things are impossible for me where i live, so why life worth it?

     

    because I don’t think that I am superior

    This is on me only, i think sometimes you appear superior.

     

    So you are projecting stuff on me, and then judging me and condemning me for things I never said or did

    Im sorry if i did, but i didn’t mean you in my above posts, i was talkikg about the people from where i live.

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