Dear Oaktree –

I’m sincerely sorry to hear that you are going through this. While I’m a guy, I can relate on many levels – and with you both.

As is often the case in these cathartic posts on Tiny Buddha, one sentence jumped out from the rest:

“It sucks that he is willing to do these things only after I threatened a break up, I wish he would have wanted to do them on his own.”

This was your heart speaking. You weren’t recounting something to us readers. You were truly reflecting how you feel.

I believe that some of the anxiety you’re feeling is that this has been going on for far too long – and you simply don’t know how to end it. While Jay sounds like a wonderful guy and he may have baggage (we all have baggage), he’s at a vastly different level of maturity as you. That’s not his fault. And that’s not your fault. Sure, you can have great sex, laugh, and spend fun times together. But so do many teens – and Jay is stuck in his teen years. And no matter how hard you try, you can’t get him to mature any faster to catch up with you.

I once heard someone far smater than me say most marriages fail because, “The wife has high expectations and wants her new husband to grow into someone she hopes he someday will become — while the new husband wants his bride to stay as young and beautiful as she is on her wedding day.” Both fail.

I’m usually a proponent of telling people to “work at it” and “hang in there.” But in your case I think you know what to do – a clean break. You are still young, single and don’t have any children between the two of you to make you stay. You’re even theorizing it in your head. From the job to the license to meeting your family, he has had his chance many times over. Only when you’re taking him to “the very edge” is he saying everything you want to hear. Again, that’s immaturity. And, aside from the drama and tears, that’s simply messing with you, sister. You deserve better than this. You deserve a man.

If you choose to break with him, then give yourself the healing “gift” of time. A month. Two months. Maybe three (after the holidays, which are always super tough). Don’t drink! And don’t see Corey. Really. Just spend time with yourself – and good girlfriends. Take another trip. (I suggest Sorrento, Italy – but that’s just me.) You are a different person for knowing and being with Jay. Reflect on the positive that came out of it – because there are positives. But it wasn’t meant to be long-term. Get to know yourself again! And value yourself. I’m sure you were positive for Jay, too. Should he meet someone down the road, he may be all the wiser and more mature for her. If anything, you gave him a great gift. But you are not responsible for him.

And then, when you finally feel peace, call Corey. He sounds like a great man.

Keep us posted. Peace to you today.

Ninja

I agree with Anita – your children are your number-one responsibility here.

To be honest, I’m a jealously-prone guy myself. It’s a terrible trait of someone who is insecure. While it’s not always the case, it seems that your boyfriend is jealous of the time you spend with your friends. He may also feel this way when you spend time with your children. Not sure as you didn’t indicate this either way. Of course, you must prioritize your children over any man you may be dating, friends, or anyone.

And, while you didn’t broach this, sex always complicates things even further. Always.

You need – and deserve – a guy who you are happy to be with. Someone you look forward to seeing and spending time with. Someone who is selfless – not selfish. Someone who is confident and secure enough to not “stew” at home after you give him an innocent “maybe” about coming over later. Honestly, I do feel for this guy as, like I said, I have been like him; weak, insecure and jealous (of my now spouse). Many guys get this way. It dovetails into a control issue, too. It’s hard and takes work. Just last night I slipped and got angry at my wife. She didn’t deserve my reaction and I should have handled it much better. It happens. That said, I believe you (just you, not the two of you) have two courses to choose from:

A.) If you want to work to keep this relationship (and all relationships take work), you need to make him aware that he is behaving poorly. But you must do this delicately as he is probably sensitive to any criticism. If you love him, tell him that, too. But also tell him that the time you spend with your girlfriend(s) is important to you. Lay some ground rules. He must learn to value what is important to you and you must do the same for him. Do NOT raise your voice (even if he does). Stay calm. Do NOT blow up at him nor call him names (e.g., “you’re being childish”), etc. That will only escalate things – as you have already seen happen.

B.) If you feel that this relationship is not worth keeping (and it may not be), or if you tried “A.” and he’s not responding well and all you’re feeling is anxiety from being with him, then politely say good-bye. Again, stay calm. A break up doesn’t have to be a blow up. Don’t accuse him of anything. Be an adult. “It’s just not working.”

And, as I said, keep your children as your number-one priority. Always!

Keep us posted.

Peace to you today, Blossom08.

Ninja

It does work. I am here (on Tiny Buddha) because I too have experienced probably the worst year of my marriage. But I learned just what I shared with you; that in order to rescue my marriage I had to put my wife before myself.

But you know this. You asked about timing. : )

Let’s see. About early August, I started this effort with a book called ‘The Love Dare.’ It’s a wonderful 40-day exercise that’s Christian-based. And it helped me greatly. You can pick up a copy at any Half-Priced Book store. Certain exercises in the book let your wife know what you’re up to (e.g., you leave her a love note one day, etc.). So, my point is, my wife became aware that I was making an effort. And our marriage was in crisis, big time. I had reason enough to attack her for things she never told me about her past. Real sordid things. But the book taught me about unconditional love. It changed my life. And our marriage. My selfish side (the easy reaction) wanted me to attack her, find out more and more, and make her “own up” for not telling me things earlier. And I did that for awhile (pre-book). But, as you can guess, that only made her defensive and pushed her farther away. The book taught me how to shower her with love — even when she had none to give me in return. And, I felt she didn’t deserve it! It taught me selfless love. Consistency is the key here. If you do one thing and she feels that “string are attached” then you go back to square one. And I did slip. I’m human. But slowly, little by little, over these past few weeks/months she has come to know that I am simply loving her. With no strings.

So, to answer your question, in about a month or two, and it’s getting better with each passing day.

But I don’t believe you’ve actually started yet. Your wife has to know your true intent: to fight for you both and keep your marriage alive and intact. Right now, she sees you as doing nice things. She may be suspicious that you want something in return or will be mopey and depressed if she doesn’t reciprocate with love and affection. Tell her, “I’m here. I’m not going anywhere. Your life is more important to me than my own. I love you just for who you are. And I expect nothing in return. And even if you don’t feel the same way right now, I’ll always be here for you … and our girls. Always!”

This is laying the foundation. Then, consistency is the key. And, as another guy who’s been there, it will seem like an eternity. But the moment you make peace in your heart that she may never come around, she might. Mine did! But again, you have to accept the fact that she may never come around. Be at total peace knowing your doing the right thing — for her and your girls.

Again, be strong. Take this one day at a time. I’m here for you. And am happy to help you navigate through this.

Your strength will come through knowing that you are being the man of the house and doing the right thing.

Peace to you.

JHumber –

Let me try to help – as I’ve been in a very similar situation.

When things seem so confusing and out of control it can feel like you’re driving at night without any headlights. Frustrating – and frightening. Take a second to hit the pause button and “unpack” the issues – because there are many that you’re dealing with all at the same time.

Your girls
While my wife and I have been blessed with two healthy daughters, I have heard (both in reading and personal friend’s accounts) that having children with special needs (of any level) places a huge amount of stress and strain on any marriage. Most marriages end – and the children who already are challenged have an even tougher time. So, no matter what, I would suggest that you stay together for the sake of your girls. Remember, children thrive on consistency. They need you both – at the same time. Also, see an “added point” a couple paragraphs down.

Depression
As I’ve said in other threads, depression is real – and it can hurt and cripple. At least you both are acknowledging that you’re suffering from it. My wife suffered from it years before we met. This led her to a life of promiscuity, feeling of worthlessness and extreme sadness. Seeing a skilled therapist helped her navigate through it. And she has been on medication for it for years and it seems to have helped. A lot. I believe that we all suffer from depression to a degree. But some much more than others. Look into having it treated.

Love her – unconditionally
You and I seem to be very much alike – nice, hard-working guys who love their wives and want it to last. But I’m noticing you’re expecting something in return for your kind everyday tasks, trips, date nights, etc. It’s natural, especially for men, to expect something in return. “Doing chores, making meals, packing lunches … but still no love.” That’s rough! I too have been there. My wife has referred to herself as the “Ice Queen.” And when your kindness isn’t returned, it simply causes even more frustration, sadness and depression. The answer isn’t easy nor simple to follow, but it’s the best one I know: unconditional love. If you love your wife—truly love her—then love her even more than you love yourself. This is love – without conditions! And it’s rare. But when you place her best interests before your own, you are “adding” to what you’re giving. Meaning, no strings attached. And, hopefully over time, she will pick up on this. But it is tough. At times you will feel lonely, depressed and like you’re not getting a return on your investment. Short changed. Not what you signed on for. And all this is very “anti-modern man.” She’s trying to “give you an out” by suggesting separation. She wants to see if you’ll bail on her (part of her depression). Very kindly refuse it. Tell her that you’re in her corner and you’re never giving up on her – whether she feels love for you or not. Tell her that you have enough strength and love for you both. Tell her that you love her without expecting anything in return. Tell her that you love her unconditionally.
My wife picked up on this sooner than I had expected. And things are much better. So, it does work!
Added point: your girls need you to not only be present in their lives (24/7), but they also need to see you as an example of a man who loves his wife unconditionally. This way, they will know what type of man to look for later in life. And they are watching you (and absorbing) more than you could ever possibly realize. So, as an added “incentive,” do all this for your girls.

Be strong. Write back. I’m here for you.

Ninja

• This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Ninja.

@H8full8

I’m so glad that my post from yesterday resonated with you. Every day is a new day; a new start. A fresh beginning. Focus your energy outward, rather than reflecting and measuring yourself inward.

Write back if need be.

Peace to you today, my friend.

Ninja

Yes, spend time focusing on yourself. One of the best ways to truly find happiness is to live “outside of yourself.” Meaning, try something like volunteering at a food pantry, shelter, etc. Places like that truly need people like you. And you will walk away feeling valued and that you made a difference. But leave the door open to finding someone, even just a crack. Who knows, that special lady might be out there volunteering, too. And having a common interest such as giving is a great way to start.
You have so much to offer!
I sincerely wish you the best!

Geovane –
Thanks for the great discussion.
Growing up, I was a Good Guy. My wife was a Bad Girl (her own words). She had many sexual partners, while she has been my only partner. Here are a few things to consider that I have found illuminating and VERY helpful:

1. “Blooming” Early vs Late
My wife started having sex with guys at age 15. When I was 15, I could not even imagine doing such a thing. I was still into comic books, hanging with my buddies, etc. My point: People mature at different times. I was a very “late bloomer” when it came to desiring sex. Oh, mind you, I do like it now! And her, not so much. Been there, done that – many times. This very sharp contrast in our “timing” has caused us anxiety. But knowing that this stress comes from our contrasting pasts helps us isolate and deal with it. Of course, this leads to:
2. Contrasting “Numbers”
Since she started very early, her number grew – and grew. I started very late (late 20’s) and, like I said, she has been my only partner. To better make my point, if I had, say, 27 partners and she had 30, I’m sure the anxiety wouldn’t be there – we’d have our own “war stories” (and wounds) to share. Not us. Our backgrounds are lop-sided. No one’s fault – and I realize that my past helps create this as much as hers.
3. Now vs Then: People can change
When we were first together, my wife said, “If you knew me a few years ago, you wouldn’t have liked me – and I wouldn’t have liked you!” What she meant was this: she was a Bad Girl who liked only Bad Guys. To her, Good Guys were boring losers. Of course, the Bad Guys would mistreat her, and she would also be the aggressor at times. And like so many younger women, she needed to feel accepted and validated by men. But the emotional “high” she would gain by waking up naked next to a guy she just met hours before (her “win/trophy”) was only followed by an even larger “low.” Eventually, after a few years of therapy, she broke this cycle – and met me. Sadly, she no longer desires sex as it reminds her of a darker time before me. This creates anxiety as I feel she “gave herself away” before me. We’re currently working through this.

I do believe that a “Lower Number” person brings a certain degree of naivety, ignorance and expectation to the relationship. And, while a “Higher Number” person brings experience, they also bring baggage in the form of wounds, shame, guilt and pain. I am very sensitive to not “slut shaming” my wife for her past as she has told me that she’d like to forget most of it. I also realize that while she started having sex at a very early age, she needed to feel accepted and validated – I did not. She didn’t have sex out of desire (although enjoying it may have been a side bonus for her). I’m sure that if she could attain acceptance from men without sex, she would have chosen that instead.

Overall, we cannot be too general and categorize people. We’re all different, mature at various times (or never at all), in different ways – and have the option of actually changing for the worse or better. If you find someone special (as I have), don’t treat them as a sexual trophy. Treat them as a whole person. And put their life and well being before yours. Grow old with them. And after the “parts” no longer work that well, discover the joy of holding their hand.
Peace.