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PeterParticipant
Imagine someone walking towards you suddenly cross the road. Would you feel safer and thank them for their kindness?
I was very shy and fearful growing up and latter in life was shocked to learn that many in the community I grew up in felt that shyness as conceit. The story they told themselves about me was that I must think I was to good for them. I thought I was being kind and considerate they thought I was stuck up. (Maybe I was, as shyness can be a judgment that we don’t trust others)
You are making the mistake of thinking you can know what others are thinking and that others can know what you are thinking. (heck we barley know and understand our own thoughts and motivations)
The anxiety we feel is of our own making and all of it based on illusion. If you want to reduce your anxiety let go of the excessive concern you have of what you imagine others think of you – which is really the excessive concern you have about your self. This concern isn’t about being nice and considerate of others its about you creating the illusion of safety for yourself. Which, based on the anxiety you feel you’re not experiencing anyway, its not working, let it go.
PeterParticipantYour decision to downsize, in my opinion for what its worth, is a sound and good one.
Happiness does not come from all the stuff we have. As you yourselves have discovered the “dream home” did not create the dream but a burden of anxiety. That’s the thing with stuff, more often then not, instead of enjoying it we live the fear of losing it.
I’m 55, sole bread winner, prone to depression, and getting tired – ready to re-tire. Ready or not the next sage of life is before us and the questions start to arise, what do we want it to look like? Do we continue to strive and push… how much do we really need? What is truly important. Its understandable as we grasp and hold on to the illusions of the past, how things should be even suspecting that we don’t really want those things that we fall into depression.
There is no reason for regret. Nothing stopping you from pursuing a new dream house, but you already know that you wont, its not what you or your family needs or wants. The dream “home” your seeking in the second half of life isn’t about brick and mortar and stuff.
“The feelings that hurt most, the emotions that sting most, are those that are absurd – The longing for impossible things, precisely because they are impossible; nostalgia for what never was; the desire for what could have been; regret over not being someone else; dissatisfaction with the world’s existence. All these half-tones of the soul’s consciousness create in us a painful landscape, an eternal sunset of what we are.” ― Fernando Pessoa
PeterParticipantI recommend the book – The Wisdom of Insecurity by Alan Watts
When we experience anxiety, we are almost always trying to fix, fixate, the present – in other words we want to stop life, stop change, stop flow and control it. We want security
We want security but security is fixed and life is flow (life cannot be fixed) so the more security we desire the more insecure we become. The only way to over come insecurity is to embrace insecurity.
“To put is still more plainly: the desire for security and the feeling of insecurity are the same thing. To hold your breath is to lose your breath. A society based on the quest for security is nothing but a breath-retention contest in which everyone is as taut as a drum and as purple as a beet.” ― Alan W. Watts
“But you cannot understand life and its mysteries as long as you try to grasp it. Indeed, you cannot grasp it, just as you cannot walk off with a river in a bucket. If you try to capture running water in a bucket, it is clear that you do not understand it and that you will always be disappointed, for in the bucket the water does not run. To “have” running water you must let go of it and let it run.” ― Alan W. Watts
PeterParticipantThere are many levels to our relationship to the word love. In your question you appear to be asking when is it we experience Love True – true as in an experience without doubt or need of measurement?
I would have to disagree that the experience of understanding another so well that you see their problems as your own as being ‘true love’… though it might be an attribute of the experience. I don’t think it would not be enough by itself. The danger being that such an experience of loving another in that way might end in co-dependency or some such phycological quagmire.
Rephrasing the question – when do you know you are loving someone truly and being loved truly?
My best guess is that we experience being loved truly when we are truly seen, truly witnessed by another.
I see you, (I am seen) all off you (all of me) as you are (as I am) the good the bad and ugly and accept all of it, all of you (all of me). Who you are matters, (who I am matters), what you do matters, (what I do matters) … so I hold you accountable, (you must let me be accountable) … for if I did not (if you do not) I do not see you, (you do not see me) and nothing you are, (nothing I am), could matter, have meaning or purpose… and that would not be love true.
I’ve always liked the following quote from Shall We Dance
“We need a witness to our lives. There’s a billion people on the planet, what does any one life really mean? But in a marriage, (love true) you’re promising to care about everything. The good things, the bad things, the terrible things, the mundane things, all of it, all of the time, every day. You’re saying ‘Your life will not go unnoticed because I will notice it. Your life will not go un-witnessed because I will be your witness’.” – I love you true
PeterParticipantA word that appears often in your story is Shame. Shame is a complex emotion. Sometimes the shame we feel is deserved, for example we deliberately hurt someone, and the shame we feels informs us that amends may be called for, however most of the shame we feel and that drives us and keeps us stuck is not deserved. We have done nothing wrong, are nothing wrong…
Undeserved shame is shame we feel for being who we are, as we are (who others told us we are)…. we judge and measure ourselves unnecessarily unacceptable… We tend to suck at measuring our experiences, judging them and then worse labeling our sense of self based on those measurements.
“One of the plainest truths about both towns and individuals is that they usually don’t turn into what we tell them to be, but what they are told they are.” ― Fredrik Backman, Beartown
You may find Lewis B Smedes book ‘Shame and Grace: Healing the Shame We Don’t Deserve‘ helpful
“If you persistently feel you don’t measure up, you are feeling shame—that vague, undefined heaviness that presses on our spirit, dampens our gratitude for the goodness of life, and diminishes our joy. The good news is that shame can be healed.”
PeterParticipantSome questions for you
Can happiness exist without the possibility of sadness? (Enter the problem of opposites, duality and consciousness.)
What role does the ego, sense of self, play in becoming consciousness and the awakening to experience?
What is unconditional Love? How are the attributes of accountability, responsibility, discipline, purpose, meaning related to the experience of being Loved and Loving – Unconditionally?
If the condition of being unconditional a condition of unconditional Love, is it still Love?
What is Love?
If Life is Love, and the reality of Life is that Life eats Life,… are pain, sacrifice and death are also attribues of Love?
PeterParticipantBy sitting with the feelings so that you learn how to respond them them vice react.
May 14, 2018 at 11:48 am in reply to: Egodeath in pre-adult mental illness sufferer or just the mind tricking itself a #207347PeterParticipantYou might Josephs Campbell work helpful – Pathways to Bliss.
The longing to die is often a longing to change, mistaken as wanting to die because change requires “dying”
It is also important to remember that it takes a strong and healthy ego to let the ego go. The ego plays a necessarily role in our interactions. Thus you don’t want to kill off the ego but your attachment of your sense of self with the ego. – You are not your ego, its simply a tool that allows one to make conscious and express experiences.
PeterParticipant“I’m not in this world to live up to your expectations and you’re not in this world to live up to mine.” ~Bruce Lee
https://tinybuddha.com/blog/breaking-free-from-your-familys-expectations/
When Family Members Push Our Buttons: How This Helps Us Grow
PeterParticipantNo theology, apologetic, dogma…. MUST be adopted to develop one’s self/spirit. In fact, Buddha often admonished his disciples not to blindly follow his teachings but test them and verify them through their own experience like a goldsmith tests the purity of gold. I would go so far in saying that part of the journey will require one to move past and even reject all the dogmas and such. one must leave god to find G_d
The question you ask – do you have to fully accept this theory to develop myself – suggests that you may be miss-understanding the words ‘spiritual development’ so it might help if you state what you mean by those words.
As for the Law of Vibration – I suspect there is something to it – based on my own experience
I always liked the idea of string theory, where it is the vibration of the “string” determines how they interact and create matter. I’m not sure if that applies to the Law of Vibration or not however I like the picture it creates…. Have you even done the experiment with a magnet and metal filings – how the magnetic field of energy a-lines the filings into the pattern of the field – all the filings vibrating in the same direction, each filing influencing the other to create the pattern… Or have you been at a concert were the music a-lines everyone and you have the experience of being connected to everyone, everyone “vibrating” in the same direction, experiencing the same ‘energy’, emotions….
“Every thought, emotion or mental state has its corresponding rate and mode of vibration. And by an effort of the will of the person, or of other persons, these mental states may be reproduced, just as a musical tone may be reproduced by causing an instrument to vibrate at a certain rate − just as color may be reproduced in the same may.” – Kybalion
You may be interested to read hermetic book Kybalion – you can download a copy for free, just google it.
PeterParticipantI assume by drugs you mean recreational as well as the other types people use to escape
Like you I have no experience with taking such drugs
I have read that in some practices like shamanism hallucinogens are sometimes used to amplify “spiritual/dream” experience however always under guidance. I suspect such experiences are not that helpful to those without training or guidance.
For example, I have a friend who had experiences of remembering a past life. She was very excited about it however she didn’t use the experience to help her in the present… actually, the experience lead to an inflation of the ego as well as the temptation to escape into it.
My own view is that a good understanding of symbolic language/images, the problem of opposites/dualism, and the shadow are required to unpack such experiences if your going to learn something from them.
Actually, I found that opening myself up to symbolic language has allowed me to experience the ‘oneness’ and ‘Love’ that many who used drugs have said they experienced. No drugs required
PeterParticipantComing up with a list of character traits and life choices/realities of a potential partner that would place them on a deal breaker list takes a great deal of self knowledge as well as a mature expectation of Love.
My experience lead to a realization that relationships tend to be experienced on two levels. The level of the stuff of life, jobs, family, hygiene, taking out the garbage… and how such stuff is negotiated, shared, compromise, boundaries, what is acceptable and what is not…
The other level is spiritual (might not be the right word) a sense of being that comes from being seen and known. The sense of self that by being with the other is inspired to do and be more, to expand, to support, encourage, to be present, to be seen as we are the good the bad and the ugly and loved, to be witnessed and to witness. This level is not intended to be lived in 24/7 but touched on and available especially when the stuff of life becomes troubling.
You might think that if you have the second Level everything in the first level would work it self out however the stuff of life will get entangled and confused getting in the way of the ability to connect with the second level. As Well Life demands growth, and if life requires that one person becoming requires taking a job in Canada and the other take a Job in France LOVE may require the relationship to end regardless of, and because of, Level Two.
Having a good understanding of what one expects and needs from the stuff of Life to Grow, to experience meaning and purpose (even though meaning and purpose are subjective, such attributes our attributes of the experiencing love – not a paradox) should be part of go or no go… but not held to rigidly. The stuff of life is always in flux and as you grow older growth tends to move inward … eventually a mature sense of self is not all that impacted by the stuff of life and relationship given greater space
PeterParticipantThe messaging from society is that everyone should be striving for ‘something’, however if your good with your sense of self and don’t really want to change that’s a valid choice. If such is the case then the accepting that truth about yourself will end the suffering your feeling about making change happen.
If there are areas in your life you would like to work on the first step is accepting where you are with compassion and without judgments or labels. I know easier said then done.
One of the reasons we don’t make the changes we think we should make is that they are ‘shoulds’ and the imagined pain and bother of making the change is not (as yet) greater then the pain of staying as we are. (Warning Life demands growth so will create pain to force growth)
The second step to change is letting go of the ‘shoulds’ and identifying the areas in your life that you authentically want and need to work on. Pick something small and do able then move forward from their
I recommend the following book: ‘Change Anything: The New Science of Personal Success’ by Kerry Patterson
PeterParticipantHi Patrick
Your statement “and now I’m where I am at because of it” was interesting. Reminds me of the saying “It takes 1,000 ‘atta boys’ to erase one ‘you’re an idiot” and I wonder why we fixate on the negative? It also reminded me of the saying that “You can’t change others. You Can Only Change Yourself”, which if true, suggests we hold the power to who we are… unless we give it away.
Have you seen the movie “Inside out”? In the movie a part of the psyche refused to accept ‘sadness’ which created the suffering. After watching the move the question I asked myself was how often did I have to learn the lesson that trying to avoid “bad” feelings only creates trouble. I actually cried
PeterParticipantit is almost always the case that whatever has wounded you will also be instrumental in your healing.” ― Robert A. Johnson
It is not possible to communicate our experiences to others or think about our experiences, feelings, thoughts without using the word ‘I’. The word ‘I’ is a construct of language which we tend to mistake the Self for. We mistake the word for the object, the map for the territory. You may have at times acted selfishly, felt selfish, judge yourself selfish however the Self is not memory, experience, emotion…
A step forward then is to let go of the attachments you have to your self judgments, labels and fear of “I”. In that regards I recommend Shadow work. The following books might be a good guide.
Shadow Dance: Liberating the Power & Creativity of Your Dark Side – David Richo
Owning Your Own Shadow: Understanding the Dark Side of the Psyche – Robert A. Johnson
Our “shadow” is the collection of negative or undesirable traits we keep hidden—the things we don’t like about ourselves or are afraid to admit: egotist, non-“PC” proclivities, forbidden sexual desires. But it also includes our positive, untapped potential—qualities we may admire in others but disavow in ourselves. Befriending the shadow makes fear an ally and enables us to live more authentically.
“When we find ourselves in a depression, suddenly hate our spouse, our jobs, our lives – we can be sure that the unlived life is seeking our attention. When we feel restless, bored, or empty despite an outer life filled with riches, the unlived life is asking for us to engage. To not do this work will leave us depleted and despondent, with a nagging sense of ennui or failure. As you may have already discovered, doing or acquiring more does not quell your unease or dissatisfaction. Neither will “meditating on the light” or attempting to rise above the sufferings of earthly existence. Only awareness of your shadow qualities can help you to find an appropriate place for your unredeemed darkness and thereby create a more satisfying experience. To not do this work is to remain trapped in the loneliness, anxiety, and dualistic limits of the ego instead of awakening to your higher calling.” ― Robert A. Johnson
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