Hi Anita and Maria.
Thank you for your replies. I should get away from the computer now, and don’t have much time the next days, so I’ll reply later.
I need to think about this.
Maria, thank you for reminding me of that quote. I was actually just saying it myself a few days ago, when i was taling to someone on a phone helpline about my situation and my despair. It might be that this is the case for me as well, with the newspapers, that I want to keep up more with the world in order to look interesting, to look good enough, to be accepted by other people. And that it is still a way to not accept myself, and not allowing myself to do what I fits me more. I might have more relation whit spirituality, but never allow myself to explore it because that looks silly. Then it might work 2 ways, that I also have something to say to others that they don’t know about. I am very sensitive, and find it important in live to develop myself to learn to create more kindness and compassiong, and reading the news often makes me feel desperate and icecold, it’s too much to take it all in.
I will think about it, I might reply later. Thank you for your replies.

So do you guys not read the newspapers at all, or do you just follow the news very ‘lightly’, or…?

Dear Anita,

Thank you for your reply and your very kind words, again.
At the moment I am very nervous, my father and his girlfriend are coming to visit me for 2 days and a half, I haven’t seen them in 2 years and I feel a huge pressure to make a good impression. I don’t know how they will be, I have changed a lot since I moved to this country and I am hoping they as well, but they probably won’t. I asked the doctor if she could tell me a disease that would sound believable to explain the sick leave, and she told me just to say the truth. So that is the dilemma now, and I guess that I am going again to making up stories and hiding things, make them look better, trying to avoid their judgments and comments.
Anyway, this is getting very off topic.
Why I say this, is that I will reply to you later, in a few days, if I go to much into this, it might get me more into a stressful mind, and I need to relax now for a while, read a newspaper (ha ha!) or a nice book.

Dear Anita,

Thank you for your kind words, and for pointing out that I helped you to understand something. I can never imagine that anybody can learn anything thanks to me, so it is nice to hear that.

I feel a little bit better at the moment. I have a week off from work so that is nice to get some rest. I went to the sea to swim (cold! 🙂 ), and they were taking wedding photo’s on the beach with a little group of people, i was watching them having fun, and i found it hard to see the moments when they were taking photos of the bride + groom hugging or kissing each other, so off I went into crying again, and a bit later, i was walking towards the water and a woman came up to me to ask if I was ok. I answered her questions (if i have friends or anything) honestly, as a kind of exercise for myself, that I don’t have to hide from people, that i can be honest, and accept their care, i also told her honestly that i found it hard to watch the photoshoot. She sympathised, and i told her not to worry, everyone has it sometimes difficult in life. It was a nice exercise for me in getting real, not performing or not poking the fun with myself (i think it can be good to poke the fun with yourself sometimes, but i have done that way too much). Afterwards i was sitting with a group of people in the garden in the hostel, i just sat quietly and listened to their conversations, and at some moments i joined them, and asked questions and said something about myself, to a person that seemed very nice. Also, that, was a very good exercise, in making contact with someone that looked nice. That is what is bothering me so much, that i always pushed my colleague away and didn’t manage to let him come closer. I still miss him, and it is painful, and i’m still ruminating a lot, or hoping to see him or thinking: should i tell him this or that… I think it is natural, that it will need time to get away. I am telling myself that it is ok, that he was a lovely person who helped me along with some things in my life, and that now it is time to let go – but I think it will need to go gradually, along with having new, nice experiences. But, I am also starting to make tiny little steps to change that pattern, so that is really good. Today I was really happy, because I was sitting there, and aware that I wanted to practise being around people and allowing myself to be there, and I knew: this guy seems nice, I am asking him something (just very general, what work he does), showing interest in somebody, where I usually tend to think: no i don’t have the right to talk to nice people, i am not good enough for that. And then I also shared something from myself, that i want to quit my job and go to volunteer in a buddhist centre for a while. That was also a conscious exercise: I am good enough to take up some space and to say something, and to say that i am having difficulty with this kind of job. Maybe the next time I meet somebody so lovely I might actually be able to just relax and chat with him and create a nice contact with him, and have a bit of trust. Imagine.

So, thank you for sharing your insight about your mother. It reminds me of the song My Immortal by Evanescence, do you know that one? That still brings very strong emotions to me each time I hear it.
Still, when somebody, anybody, a stranger even, gets upset or in trouble or in a low mood, I feel responsible, I don’t think anymore, I react immediately, they have a problem so it is MY problem, I have to solve it. So yes, I recognise what you say.

The doctor told me today: parents do the best they can, they can’t help it, no parent is perfect, and, yes, I understand that, I told her that as well, I’ve spent the main part of my life to understand and excuse my mother. But, I told her, I think it is also time that I give myself some recognition, that I missed certain things in my life and that it has cause me some harm. I am slowly starting to do that, but very carefully, still very insecurely, but I am starting to look at myself as a person that also had/has certain needs who weren’t met. I have a long way to go to learn to see what it did to me and how is still influencing me, but i have started. I find it sometimes irritating when people say that I have to understand parents, that is all good and well, but who is there to understand me, to give me some space in here? Even though, it doesn’t matter how many people would tell me, or maybe do tell me, as long as i don’t accept it myself, i will not take in any of their words.

With this colleague, you said somebody who was nice to you and others, all the time.. I think that was the case, it was indeed very refreshing to experience this, and I am glad to have met somebody like that actually, somebody who gave me the feeling that I was noticed, that he was still nice when I was locked up in my moods, that he did a little bit of effort to get contact with me. I still think that he gave me a lot of signs that he liked me, and that i often was very distant, and i do feel bad about this. That is why i still have a longing to talk to him honestly, and to tell him how hard I find it to let somebody that i like come closer. But I think i will stop worrying or planning about this, and let the universe go its way, if we are supposed to see each other and talk or whatever, i guess it will happen. But, he wasn’t always nice and predictable, sometimes he was angry or avoiding me (which i interpreted as that he liked me). But it was nice to feel that somebody cared about me, that somebody treated me with warmth and humor, and tried, very carefully to come closer to me. And that i could gradually, over time, try to come closer to him. I feel bad about the suddenness that i stopped, just when we seemed to come a bit closer and to relax a bit more (not that we talked more, but the atmosphere, and both of us, were became so light the last days, and then suddenly i lift). I am afraid that i hurt him, and i am sad that i didn’t give myself the chance to stay a bit longer and to have a bit more of this contact, that i was slowly allowing to open up a little bit to somebody lovely. And I am sad about the way i left, telling him enthousiast about my new job, and not talking to him anymore (he didn’t either), which i couldn’t, i was too overwhelmed with sadness.
But, ok, things went as they went, i guess there is no point in looking back. Maybe we had experienced together what we needed, maybe i wasn’t ready to get even closer, maybe i needed to learn not to run away from people like that, whatever reason, this is the way it went, so this is ok, i guess. Like a previous group therapist always started with a little exercise, and one of them was having us walking around the room, repeating to ourselves: it is good as it is.
I guess I have been sad about it, and regretting it for so long now, and being superemotional about it. It is time to find the peace in myself back. I guess I have to let go of him and learn some lessons from this experience. Even though, inside in my heart I am crying and just want to keep clinging to him. That is making more days of my life miserable and that is actually the same thing that i regret having done with him: keeping myself away from happiness and nice experiences. Today i had a nice moment in the garden with some people, if i keep thinking about him, i will not enjoy these experiences, or even the opportunity of making new friends or whatever.
This experience with him was in the past, i can be grateful for it, i can keep feeling love for him, and i can send intentions into the world, to see him again, and have an open and honest chat with him. But apart from that, i have to focus on doing things and thoughts, that are positive for me, and helping me to live the way i want. He might actually have given me something that I missed with both my parents, especially with my mother, and probably it is normal that we go longin and attaching so much to people like that, because i never had that as a child. But, first of all, i can not make myself dependent on the warmth and predictablility of somebody else, I have to give that to myself. I hope that, if i learn (how do you learn that…) to love myself and treat myself with kindness and compassion, that i won’t get so attached to and desperate for somebody else anymore.
I assuming, seeing my emotional reaction, for so long, that it was attachment, and not love. That I am mabye not ready for love, that i need to love myself a bit more first and get a bit more grounded in that, and that this has pointed that out for me. So it is probably good for me, to have left now and starting to get this lesson.

Bweh, sorry for the long ranting again. I seem to think out loud while writing, and writing helps me to talk to myself and to get my thoughs more straight, so while writing and can convince myself a bit more. I am doing a lot of work, the past few days to reframe my thoughts.
I’ll post it anyway, you never know if it makes any sense 🙂

Oh yeah, what you wrote, about all your actions, or words or gestures, having a huge potential and dangerous effect on others. I think this is our ego, that has become very big out of fear. It is interesting, I assume that I have the same, because I am always so scared about what i do or say, saying sorry endless times, even when it was actually the other one who did something wrong. But on the other side, I think so lowly of myself, and i think that i am invisible, that i usually think that it doesn’t matter for anyone, what i do or say, that i don’t have any influence on anybody. so i tend to overdo my jokes, or say unmindful things, because i assume that people automatically see that i’m not a real person, that i’m at most a silly little child whose words don’t matter at all. So now I actually need to learn to say that i also have an influence on people and that i need to learn to be more mindful about what i say. That is a contradiction that i find interesting, maybe i will understand later.

Dear Anita,

Thank you so much for sharing.
I find it very interesting to read your reflections on it, and to see my reaction to it (of course, I feel guilty for the fact that you are sharing this, because I wanted you to share, as if I provoked that, of course that is your own decision).

I started to type a reply yesterday and then didn’t post it.
At the moment I have big difficulties writing anything because I am not very good. It has been building up for the past month, but now the anxiety is taking over, I left work yesterday in a panic attack and go to the doctor now. This just to say that I really appreciate you writing here, even though it is very personal and sensitive for you, and I would like to reply, but at the moment I just don’t feel able.

Take care of yourself, and talk later 🙂

Dear Anita,

Wow, I’m surprised to hear that you already expected that i would apologize and that you say you know me well. While I always think that I am invisible and that people never notice me. You already know me from a few forum posts. That is an eye-opener for me.
Or, did you know that, because you recognise that pattern, because you might also have learned to feel responsible for other people’s emotions?

If you want, maybe you want to read my last lines of my previous post first, before going on. I’d like to repeat it here, I hope you take care of yourself and mind your own limits. Maybe I am feeling too responsible for your emotions again now, but i don’t want to trigger you to bring up emtions again that might be too much for you. You don’t need to get involved in my story if you don’t want, and bring up many things for you again. Respect your own limits.

I also feel closer to you now. And surprised, that i have the right to open up like that and to share this with somebody. With somebody very nice and compassionate.

Take care, take your time, and only read and reply here, if you want to, Anita.

Dear Anita,

First of all, I think you are quite amazing. If i see the amount of energy you put in helping and supporting others on this forum. I was just browsing around here and saw somebody who just started a thread about her current situation, and directed it towards you. I think that shows how compassionate you are and how it can influence people.

Thank you for thinking further with me. I don’t know why. I feel that you want to understand me more, or even want to help me understand things better and go deeper towards things. Or maybe you just like to try to understand others better? I have no idea, but i appreciate the fact that you are trying to understand me more.

In fact, i am scared of bees, even though i have never been stuck, but this to the side 😉

Yes i am very scared, but i think that i have also other feelings in me which are very big, but which i maybe still don’t allow enough, or bury them under the fear. Maybe i just find it hard to accept that that is what i am, a scared person. Or maybe the fear is ruining a lot of things…

I think that i am scared to be vulnerable. To be real. To be myself. To show myself as i am, and as what i feel to others.
I hitchhike a lot, and i travelled a little bit, and i would have no problem making conversations with strangers. In those travels, i would spend time in a group doing voluntary work, and in those groups i would be very quiet and unhappy, drained of energy. On my photos of those groups you could see me, with an unhappy face and as a very unhappy person. But when i was ‘on the road’, with people who i would never see again, then it is different. You can also see this on certain photos, where i look shining and happy and radiant. The same goes for school or work. In those situations i am usually anxious, withdrawn, insecure, and blocked.
So if i am in a situation where i will see people more often, something in me blocks. When it is a ‘one-moment’ situation, i will often chat away and be more extravert. I say these examples because i think it might make it more clear.

I think i am afraid to make connections with people, to allow people to come close, because i can’t believe it is true. If it seems true (which was the case with S), then there must be something wrong, so i get into the paranoid thinking and in the pushing away. I don’t deserved it.

When i was a child, it was hard to be real. My mother had a lot of problems, physical health problems as well as emotional problems. When i was in hospital, i saw once on a report that i described her as having borderline – not with those words but because of the way i described her. She didn’t have control over herself, had a lot of self-loathing and worked it out on me. She was very unpredictable and i was scared of her. she woud have big rage-outbursts, shouting and shaking me around. Maybe i was already sensitive as a child, but i was scared. And then at times she would regret and come to me ‘oh my little sprout, you love your mummy don’t you..’ I don’t know if these were the exact words but in that kind of attitude. With a kind of feeling the she needed my reassurance, that everything was ok. Now i realise, that was actually already a kind of helper role that i was taking on. When i was scared of her, and when she burst out in anger, out of proportion, then i was already taking on the responsibility to comfort her, and to tell her that everything was ok. While i was hurt, and scared, but who was there to comfort me, to give me the assurance that everything was ok?
There was never real affection, real safety.
My father was the safe person, the reliable person. I was not afraid of him. But there was also not really affection, or attention. When i was 18, my parents divorced, my mother took me with her but later the court decided that my father should raise me, which is what he had fought for and also what i wanted, because i was scared of my mother. My father did what he could, but he didn’t know how to give me affection. When i was an adult, he told me that he never gave me a hug, or never even put an arm around me, because he was afraid that people would think about child abuse. I remember there was never the time or the space to listen to me. I would come back from school or other acitivities and wanting to tell something, and he would act with ‘yes, yes..’ on a tone that said, i showed some attention but not wholewheartedly, and then ‘and now i want to watch tv’. Meals were always in silence. I never remember a genuine smile from either of them. I still find it hard to smile genuinely, and usually don’t manage it. Especially when i like somebody.

With my mother, later, as a teenager, i remember a lot of times where she would be complaining to me about how bad her life is, and what the point would be to keep living. So as a teenager i was trying to support my mother, listening to her, trying to show understanding, trying to encourage her. She would sometimes give signs in a very indirect way. I remember once, when i was spending the weekend with her, and in the morning would come downstairs and find a paper on the table ‘who to call in case Xx (her name) would die’, and then names and phone numbers in order of priority. This was further making me scared, because there was always a kind of thread (in my feeling) that it would be my fault, that ik would be responsible in case she died, i wouldn’t have done enough to help her.

Also, as a teenager, i felt a huge pressure from my mother, to act as if everything was ok between us. That we just got along well as mother and daughter. A lot of acting. Pretending. Acting in a fake way, with a fake kind of voice. I think this is what really messed me up, because things weren’t ok between us. She hadn’t been there for me and she had never given me the safety or love that every child needed. Maybe she couldn’t she had had problems with her mother and that had been the way for the previous generations. But then i had to put up this kind of play, which i did, probably because i felt this would be safer than to be honest and rebelling or not playing it. When i would be impolite (i was also a teenager, remember), she would give me comments that would be guilt-inducing. So i think that made me feeling not real, feeling that i had to put up a huge facade and faking, in order to be accepted (and is that not one of the basic needs, as a child?). Pushing myself further away.

As an adult (now less because i live abroad), my father would sometimes complain to me about his problems with the attitude of his girlfriends’ daughter, who is not very nice to him, even though he does a lot for her. And i would listen, trying to support him. Give him the emotional support that i kept longing for, to get from him. My father tries to support me a lot, on the practical level, and is always there for me when he can. When i was in hospitals and completely desperate and suicidal, he would try in his way, to give me hope, but really listening to me, he just can’t.

There was never a lot of physical violence. Anyway, i don’t think the bit of physical stuff messed me up.
But psychologically, probably a lot more than i still would like to admit to myself.
And these things are more invisable. People don’t notice easily what’s going on with this way of acting. Or, i don’t think they notice, even if they did, it is a lot more complicated and less open.

So, i think i have learned as a child, that there is no place for me. People are scary, i have to try really hard to please them and it is nearly impossible. People are cold and distant, so that is what i became towards other people. I became distant to them and i extremely respect other people’s space and the distance, because i am so scared to come closer. I don’t want to be distant and cold, and i long so hard to get closer to people, because i actually think that inside i have a lot of warmth as well. But i don’t know how to do it. I get scared for longer contacts than a few days. Scared of being judged, scared of being rejected and ignored. I get nerveus as soon as i am around people. I often act hyperactive, when i do try to say something it is usually not in a relaxed way, but very agitated, louder and nerveus. Of course, that is not nice for people to listen to. But i am so used to expecting that people will turn their back on me as soon as i open my mouth to say something, or that they wil start to laugh.

So, afraid of being ridiculed, i don’t know if it makes sense to you, reading my story. There was some ridiculing when i was little, but there was a lot more ignoring, the feeling that i didn’t exist, that i didn’t matter and that i was too much.
So i think now, the feeling and the fear that i have made myself look ridiculous by asking for more contact with S, I guess it is quite obvious, i have always learned that i am not allowed to be there, that i am in the way. So imagine, such a stupid little thing, asking such a lovely person to keep meeting up, because i like him. Why would he like me, of course he has a good laugh about my stupidity. That is my way of thinking, i know that is wrong, but that is the way of thinking a have always learned and actually still believe. Even though i have reasons to think that S actually also likes me, i find it hard to believe that, and i keep finding ways to not believe it, because that is a very scary thought.

You probably will not be surprised to read that i studied social work in college, and failed because i took it all way too serious. Even though my mentor at school said that she saw some great qualities in me to become a good social worker. And actually very glad that i don’t have to do that job, because i would probably have gone completely depressed after a few months.

And maybe it will not sound strange, when i say that i don’t know how to talk to people, about random stuff, in a relaxed way. Either very hyperactively. And that i tend to attract people who have problems and kind of use me as their personal counselor and are not very nice and respectful towards me – an experience that i had this year with a woman where i lived for 4 months, and then kicked me out like a piece of garbage with some agression, oops… it happened again..
I recently read about the Karpman triangle and that is totally me, the rescuer, and then becoming victim and then becoming angry and bitter, why this keeps happening…

OOf.. You asked me for some clarification. I don’t know if you wanted to know this much. I started writing, probably very happy with the attention of somebody, somebody who asks me ‘why are you scared’, and out of a feeling: maybe i will respond honestly for once, as a way of taking myself seriously enough.

It feels a bit strange to put this on the internet, but i think i will post it anyway, and trying to rely on the anonimity.