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Sann

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Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 110 total)
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  • in reply to: OK, come clean, how many of you are there? #84157
    Sann
    Participant

    Dear Jack,

    Interesting topic!
    I wonder, how long did it take you, to identify all those different aspects? I think i might need quite a while to figure all of them out.

    A while ago, somebody made me aware of this, and she referred to a book called ‘Voice Dialogue’ – if i remember well.
    She compared it to be a busdriver, where you have a lot of different people who all have something to say, and you have to drive the bus safely and efficiently to his destination. That we need to learn, to recognise them but decide who gets to say his say when. Something like that.

    I don’t have any insight in those different aspects in myself, and i think it would be good to take a look at it. To be able to identify: this is Scared Sann, this good-hearted Gerda, this is Wise Wendy, this is Anxious Andrea, this is Brave Betty, this is Naive Natalie… Is it good to let them have their say now, or should i tell him or her, to sit on his chair and let somebody else have the show..?

    Sorry, i hope i’m not disturbing your topic.
    But i wanted to say that i’m impressed with the thoroughness you can identify all of them.
    Do you do much negotiation work between them, or do they get to have their go when they want?

    in reply to: i need to learn to stand up for myself #84155
    Sann
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Thank you for your reply.
    At first, i wonder if you were being sarcastic: that i will not manage to change it because i’m not brave enough to face the fear with new behavior. But that is me (=my habit), i always think that people are making fun of me and putting me down.
    The way that i know you here on this forum, i don’t think that that intention even enters your mind.
    I think you just want to point out to me, what it is about.

    And to be honest, sometimes i wonder, where you got all that insight. I know you’ve gone through a lot of processes and work yourself, but i am impressed that you know to give so many insights in people’s situations. To me it seems that you have come very far with that.

    Yes, fear…
    And when i look, what am i afraid of?
    1. losing my job – which i don’t think is a realistic fear. And if so, it would be sad, cause i like it there and it’s getting comfortable, but ok, i would find an other job, and losing my job because i tried to stand up for myself, would be a win i think.
    2. Guilt feelings. These are much worse, and much harder to tackle.
    (3. I don’t know – perhaps a hurt ego)
    (4. Just the unpredictableness. Not knowing if she’s gonna shout even more at me, when i try to say something)

    Anyway. Today i went to the boss after work. It was not the plan. But she let me do many things myself, and started to do our main work immediately (cleaning the rooms in the hotel). So i started much later, because i had to clean other things and she didn’t bother helping me. So she does the half of the rooms and then heads of. Which means that i can tidy some of her mess afterwards because she never does that.
    That is ok for me, we get paid by the hour.
    But i am afraid since a while of how it will look for the boss: she often finishes earlier than me (she also chooses the easiest rooms, the ones where people are staying, or where she can, the ones that have only one bed instead of 2), and i am afraid that the bosses are going to think that i am much slower. So i told him, i am starting to think that i have to defend myself, and told him she does 5 rooms and heads off. He explained me that i am there longer than her, so i am the senior in relation to her, so that they like to give me more hours. That is nice. I told him i am afraid that they will think that i am slow or lazy – in the beginning i worked there i was very slow, but i’m much better now. He assured me that i don’t have to be afraid of that, that they don’t think that.
    Of course i feel terrified now.

    Anyway, i didn’t tell him anything about her behavior towards me, which is getting worse everyday now.
    I only said that part, and it reassured me a bit, that he told me no need to worry.
    So i try to be compassionate with myself, i didn’t *really* stand up for myself, but it was a little step towards showing and expressing something towards my boss what is bothering me.

    Hopefully it gives me a bit more confidence to put up with her behavior, which i’m slowly starting to call bullying.
    Perhaps i will get there one day.

    in reply to: Emotional Truth #84152
    Sann
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Yes you have a point there.

    Also, your remark reminds me. Often what we see in others is a reflection of ourselves, of how we look at others and at the world.
    Do you know that story, where they let a puppy in a room, and it comes out all distressed, barking and angry. And then they let in a second one, that comes out all jumping and wagging its tail.
    So you wonder: what is in that room, that makes one dog so angry and the other one happy. And it turns out, the room is full of mirrors. Often if we start from a more positive attitude, we will be more likely to like people than when we are stressed or negative about them
    Generally speaking, that is.

    in reply to: Emotional Truth #84145
    Sann
    Participant

    I’m just starting to have some awareness on people’s energy, i don’t know how you guys think about that.
    With some people, i don’t need much words, i can feel it when i’m around them: this is nice, there is a nice feel about that person. It is good for me to be around them.
    Equally, with others, it is the opposite.
    The energy might be to different or not compatible.
    Do you guys believe in that, or is that some silly story?

    So i think it might be different to dislike somebody because of that, and because of our own judgments or interpretations. In the second case, we might be more open for change in perception.

    in reply to: Emotional Truth #84144
    Sann
    Participant

    Wow, so much recognition in all of the replies. I’m not going to start replying to all that because i don’t know where to start.
    I’m struggling with that as well, and now trying to learn: what’s wrong with not liking someone? I am not enlightened so i can’t be supposed to be without any preferences. I usually always feel obliged to like everybody and i don’t even know that i don’t like certain people. I want to learn that: who do i like more or less.
    And i also would like to learn to be polite and kind to the ones i don’t like, not to let them see that i dislike them, having good functional relations (if necessary)

    Of course, like mentioned above, it can be surprising that you happen to like certain people that you didn’t like in the beginning. So it can pay off to try to stay open.

    in reply to: More threads please #84143
    Sann
    Participant

    Yeah that might be interesting Jack.
    I will also try to start something.
    I am often so tired these days that i want to reply on a thread, and not find the energy, or delete it afterwards because i think it looks silly.
    I’ve read quite a few nice / interesting topics that you started lately Jack, good work!
    (Although i don’t reply and was planning to, i appreciate them!)

    in reply to: Best job you've had #84142
    Sann
    Participant

    These days i’m wondering about that often.
    Since i don’t have a degree in anything, i’m quite likeable to have low-schooled jobs.
    In my own country i worked in a library for 2 years, that was probably the nicest work, interation with people, working with books, a bit of variation in physical and more mental work. But we had difficulties with the boss, quite negative, if we made a tiny mistake, she often managed to see it and to come and give out to us about it – never mentioning all the good work we did, and often barely spoke to us. I’ve seen quite a few people leaving and being unhappy because of her.

    But i think that my nicest job is my current one. Now i’m living abroad and i’m working in a 2 star hotel. Funny place, many things not organised and it is still often a mystery to me, which person i should go to, to have the best chance to get anything ordered if i need new work material. I work as a cleaner, so not the most stimulating work.
    But i’ve never encountered so much kindness and helpfulness in a job, from everybody there, the owners and the colleagues. The chefs always ask if i want to eat, if they have time to cook, the bosses arrange for somebody to help me if they see that i’m not too fast, instead of giving out. They have let me do new tasks that i didn’t do before and that i was always told from home that i wouldn’t be able to (waitressing), and which they are letting me know that i’m doing it good. Really amazing for me to be in that place. I feel this place is helping me to grow and to be a bit more relaxed and confident at work, to see myself as a normal person next to colleagues and superiors. I sometimes wish i was brave enough to tell them how happy i am to work there.

    Sann
    Participant

    Oh, nice topic!
    Looking forward to get to know some new music!!

    My last 2 songs were this morning, the Hare Krishna Mantra, and ‘The Rhythm of Life’, sung by Dundee Proms choir or something.
    I was getting very anxious this morning to go to work, so i wanted to listen to songs that can lift me up, get me in an other mood.

    The next one i don’t know yet 🙂

    in reply to: i need to learn to stand up for myself #84012
    Sann
    Participant

    I assumed that i was going to come back here, to write how it goes.

    I am a big avoider. This morning i had difficulty again with her, with the way she told me she will do that task, again. Even though, i was already doing an other task the past weeks, so perhaps it is me who is making a problem where there is none. But this morning i was doing the task already, so i was shocked that she made me go out it, and the way in which she told it.
    I was so upset, i couldn’t manage to maintain friendly. So an other colluague was also not very friendly with me – don’t know if that was because of me, she is quite new and doesn’t come across as the most friendly person anyway, and perhaps quite insecure as well.

    It bothers me a lot her behavior towards me, and perhaps it would be helpful to let go. But still, her attitude towards me is not nice and i have contributed to that a lot by never standing up for myself or responding to it – i let her do it, so she feels quickly that she doesn’t need to respect me.

    Now it is making me sick and exhausted.
    Right now, the way i feel, i think it can go 2 ways.
    1. I do nothing and it can keep making me unhappy. That is not a good prospect, and i don’t think i deserve that, after all my efforts to help others at work, and to create some better contacts (the second thing was actually a big effort for me, i’m not very good at talking).
    And i wonder, will it lead to me eventually losing or leaving my job…?
    2. I can do something about it. Right now, what i mainly see as an option, is to talk with the boss. Because talking with her doesn’t seem to help, and standing up for myself, i don’t seem to manage.
    But talking with the boss, is so incredibly scary for me and it feels wrong. It feels like a litle toddler who goes to the teacher complaining about an others behavior.

    A long way to go, it seems…

    I asked a nice, young colleague this morning: what would you do if you had a problem with somebody else at work? He guessed quickly who it was, but i didn’t want to admit it. He advised me to go to the boss, and told me which boss would be the best, and reassured me that he would listen and be serious. But still, it doesn’t feel like an option for me.

    I think it might take me a number of lives, before the thought might enter my head, that i can stand up for myself…

    in reply to: i need to learn to stand up for myself #83453
    Sann
    Participant

    Hi Jack,
    What makes you say that – that i am a better person than you?
    You don’t know me, i don’t think i’m such a good person, but that’s not my point, i think i read some self-doubt in your remark, as if you’re not finding yourself very good. And i wonder why?
    Because i get a different impression when reading your posts here..

    in reply to: i need to learn to stand up for myself #83380
    Sann
    Participant

    Yes that seems like it – not everybody though. And then there are people who seem (or pretend) to be nice, but still underneath seem to have a hidden agenda. I am terrible at seeing that, i am too trusting.
    I don’t know if those nice people are in the minority or not. That probably depends on who you are lucky or unlucky to have around you. Perhaps we can also learn to change that, to start to appreciate the nice people more, and maybe they will stay around us easier?
    (but that’s maybe just me, i tend to push the nice people away and stay close to the ill-meaning ones)

    I don’t know about animal instinct.. Perhaps.. People who do that probably are also just not secure in themselves… just like us. And try to cover it up in that way.

    What you say about the magnet.. the good thing is that we can learn to change it. We learn to act differently with more self-regard and people will treat us differently. Easier to write than to do, but people have done it before us, so we’ll manage as well. One day 🙂

    in reply to: i need to learn to stand up for myself #83332
    Sann
    Participant

    Dear Anita,
    Thank you for your kind words. Yes i didn’t realise, but it is indeed VERY effective for her: all she has to do is to yell and i’ll say what she wants to hear. All she has to do is stand in my place and i’ll run away and let her do my nice task. All she has to do is saying A to me and then B to me and she knows i’ll be doubting myself.
    Yes i like your idea, thank you so much. I’m so caught in it myself that i can’t even think about it. But i will keep it in mind for next time. I am so afraid to say anything to her because i’m afraid that she’ll go to other people and tell them that i was rude to her and make me look bad – and that i won’t even know it because they wouldn’t tell me. But i have to stop thinking so much and trusting a bit more that there is not a whole army of enemies waiting to hear about my first mistake to all turn their backs on me.

    Yes you are right, we need to be very compassionate and patient with ourselves, and in a consistent way, if we want te make change. Thank you for the reminder, it’s easy to forget sometimes.

    Quite likely i will update her later on how it went.

    Hi Jack,

    Ok i see. It sounded to me that you were further in it because of the way you wrote it, but i understand, these things take a long process in order to change them. Good that you have taken the step already to look at it. I find that often the hardest part, being honest with myself about something that i want to change, and making the honest intention to learn to act differently.
    I find work also difficult, even though my workplace is quite nice. But there seems to be more involved – i personally am always anxious to lose my job if i make the slightest mistake, and that other people will make my life miserable there. Even though it doesn’t go that hard it seems. But i tend to get quite paranoid anyway, so at work i have this in a high degree.

    Good luck with practicing on it.

    in reply to: i need to learn to stand up for myself #83309
    Sann
    Participant

    Thank you Anita. Yes it is nice that other relationships are win-win, thanks to that place i am learning more about myself, i am learning to see that i am very nice and helpful (haha, i’d never imagined saying that about myself so easily 🙂 ) and it is nice to be able to share that with people, instead of feeling that i am stupid because of it.
    But that woman is perhaps also doing me a favor, because i need to learn that i can not be like that to everybody, to some people i do need to keep my defences and set boundaries. I think i have let it come way to far with her in these 3 months, and i think she knows way too well that she can treat me in any way she wants.
    The past week, every day that we worked together (which is 3 days per week, but that’s more than enough), she ran off way before we wore finished. I didn’t say anything, i didn’t ask her to stay. Yesterday it was the same, she came to throw something there that she had used and that i needed, and she said ‘see you next week’, i answered her ‘whatever’, as i was getting quite annoyed with the way she leaves and the way she does it. She even started to give out to me and to yell at me that i shouldn’t have said ‘whatever’, that all i had to say is bye. So i said bye and kept going with my work. Perhaps ‘whatever’ wasn’t the nicest thing to say, but i don’t think it’s that unreasonable, considering the way she leaves me with the rest of the work (not a big problem, cause i’m paid for it, but she doesn’t do it in a nice way).
    So i’m just hoping that she’ll be let off in a few weeks, when it gets quieter. I’m just exhausted and don’t manage to let it go, now on my day off it’s still bothering me the whole time.


    @Jack
    , thank you for your reply and advice. It is very helpful to me.
    Yes i guess that is what we need to do. I am usually so anxious and nervous that i don’t even manage to choose a persona, that i usually talk in a very shy and anxious way, which already tells loads about me. I will have to put work into practising taking on a more confident kind of attitude, especially in the beginning. Being quiet, making small conversation, and observing more, not trying to please and to make a good impression. But focussing more on what impression they make on me. And focussing on not helping everybody out in the beginning but taking my own space.
    And i have to learn to be more aware to which contact with which people are actually good and which not. Because now i always mess that up completely. I’m often too shy to talk to people who are nice and build up a contact with them, and people who i’m afraid of (like that woman), i will talk with a lot and trying to please them, to pretend that all is well.
    Oh that all sounds so nice and easy to write it down… ha ha.. Perhaps i’ll get there in the end.

    May i ask you, did it take you long to learn that? Was it a long time of trying and error, or how did you go about it?
    I know that might be a kind of question that is difficult to answer, but perhaps you have some advice on how you changed that.

    in reply to: i need to learn to stand up for myself #83200
    Sann
    Participant

    Hi sorry for my late reaction. I wanted to wait a few days to try to think about it.
    Anita, yes, you are right. The win-win, and helping each other, i have that with most people there and that is wonderful, that it is possible. I like giving and with those people i can do that, because they also look after me and give to me. But indeed, i have to know with who i can do that, and put up a big wall with certain people. It’s now not only anymore about that task – now it is evolving that the boss wants me to do an other task, which means that i’m learning a new, interesting skill, so i’m happy with that. But it is in general with the way she behaves about me – i won’t start boring you with all the details.
    I don’t know about the barking though. It is not my style, and my experience tells me that it doesn’t work with her. If i try to bark with her, she just barks back, and louder than me, and i get afraid. If i try to discuss with her, she will keep denying what i see, even though she is clearly lying. So i’m trying more the silent approach, trying to say ‘i do this’ – or whatever it is about and not discussing too much, but staying with what i first said. That seems to fit me better, and to work better towards her. She will argue a bit and then go.

    Thank you for pointing it out so nice each time: “the right thing… or easy?” i have some work learning to see the difference between those 2 things. I can be very good at self-deception.


    @Lovelimess
    , yes i find it difficult to go talk to the boss. There are a few bosses, but they are so laid-back and not caring too much, that i don’t know who would be best to talk to and if it would make sense. And then i am worrying so much: what are they going to think about me etc, that keeps me back from it. And then i say to myself “i don’t like to be the kind of person that goes complaining to the boss about a co-worker, that is childish” – which are probably excuses again.
    Anyway these days she is making it worse in her attitude towards me, at the moment i’m just letting it happen but i’m starting to think to say something to the boss. Hopefully i manage to do that one of those days, because that would be the right thing to do. I think i have done more than my share in trying to talk with her.

    Jack, thank you for your reply, i try to reply you tomorrow, tired now.

    I am trying to work on it, but is goes very slow, i guess i’ll have to accept that.

    in reply to: How to meditate #83089
    Sann
    Participant

    Hi Logan,
    Is there any meditation centre around where you live, of any kind? Where you could go and learn to meditate, have somebody to guide you.. and do it together with others in a group, which can be motivating…
    Don’t know if that is an option.. Where i live, unfortunately, there is no such thing, i would love to, cause it could be so helpful.

    Me too for a long time i struggled with ‘how to meditate’, and i was trying it but probably not in the best way. I’m not saying that i’m great at it now.
    But what helped me a lot, was to do a meditation course. In my case it was a Vipassana course, 10 days of only meditating. After 2 courses i’ve started to grasp a little bit what to do, and i found it more helpful to experience it rather than just reading from a book or listening to a tape. Of course there are many other meditation courses, perhaps that could help to get started with it to do something like that.

    Good luck with your meditation, it can be a long process but i feel it’s definitely worth it, my life is so much better thanks to it.(when i do it consistently, that is 😉 )

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 110 total)