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Tee
ParticipantDear lk09,
I am sorry that your friend’s father is in hospital fighting covid – I hope he’ll make it and fully recover!
Regarding your previous ex:
I always felt I was taking care of him. And within a year and a half, I wanted the relationship to end but he was already struggling so much in his life that I did not want to make life more difficult for him.
So what you’re saying is that you sacrificed yourself for him, because you didn’t want to leave him to struggle with his own problems. You thought you should help him. You have put him – the person who selfishly leaves you in the middle of the night on a deserted street – before your own well-being and your own interest. This is how you were conditioned in your family – to sacrifice yourself for your sister, to never fight back if she would strike you, to accept her abuse… Perhaps he even reminded you of her a little, with his anger and hot temper. With time, you realized he’s beneath you and you don’t want to be with such a crude person any more.
You then looked for someone more sensible and calm – the opposite of your sister – and that was your recent ex. With him, you didn’t feel weak, like a puppy, and at the mercy of his anger. You felt strong and confident, you were his superwoman. Now you were at least saving someone deserving to be saved – this gentle, sensitive guy who was so opposite of your sister. Do you think there might be a connection there? It never occurred to me before, but I guess it’s possible…
I just know that there was an emotion(Perhaps still is hidden within) too strong which neither of us could understand. I am saying this because we often discussed this that why do we still care for one another? … I was thinking to myself that why am I in this situation and why do I keep feeling for him when I haven’t even spent a month with him together.
I believe it was because of the dream of “what could be” that you were holding on to him. He was perfect for you from several aspects. One of his features you liked was his calm, sensible demeanor – possibly guaranteeing that he’d be different from your sister and that life with him would be peaceful and pleasant. And that you would be his No1 – something that you’ve never experienced in your childhood home. So he had a lot of potential, a lot of promise. There was a chance that your dream would come true… I think that’s the reason you were holding on to him.
Tee
ParticipantDear Pavel,
you’re welcome, I am glad you connected some of the dots.
It is probably a good thing that we don’t talk that much anymore. I need to get rid of people like him. And trust me, there is a lot of fallen angels and demons around me these days..
Yes, better not to get involved deeper and try to resist the temptation to get in touch with him, because you know it’ll only leave you hurt and crushed. I myself have never tried drugs but I imagine it can open you up to a lot of astral stuff, demons and suchlike. How is it now that you’re sober, are you still haunted by astral experiences?
I am usually emotionally stable. Can not really.. feel much. And this was so real it broke my heart into pieces.
If you usually can’t feel much, it’s more likely you’re suppressing/numbing your emotions, i.e. numbing the pain. With him, all those suppressed emotions burst open, because he re-activated the trauma in a way, re-activated those childhood memories. And the pain just overwhelmed you, because it was the current pain, which you felt in relation to him, augmented by the childhood pain. It’s like the Pandora box of pain and hurt got open…
It’s a good idea to continue to work on the sexual abuse trauma during your rehab. Probably your drug use is also related to that trauma, so it makes sense to work on it together.
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This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by
Tee.
Tee
ParticipantDear Pavel,
His brother died because of injecting metamphetamine, cancer and AIDS. He sees his brother in me. He was also bisexual.
My brother only used me as a sexual toy when I was a kid and he is definitely not straight, as I can say because I grew up with him and straight boy wouldn’t do what he did to me. So, he is probably pansexual.
We saw our brothers in each other. Drugs only made it more emotional. Brighter.
It appears you bonded over a similar life story, and a similar or related trauma, I dare say. You were sexually abused as a boy by your own brother, and Lukas’s brother died of drug abuse, cancer and AIDS. You see in him not just “a brother”, someone on a similar path as you, but you see your own brother, the person who abused you.
That’s why there was a strong sense of “recognition” and attraction towards him – because every abused child is seeking some closure to their trauma, and we’re often attracted to people who remind us of our abusers. We hope that this time round we can have a different experience with this person who abused and hurt us, but whom we also strangely love (because they are our family). Since Lukas reminds you of your brother, it’s possible that you saw the opportunity to finally solve that childhood trauma, to give it a different ending.
But the truth is that getting involved in a relationship with people who remind us of our abusers is only going to re-traumatize us, and hurt us more. The only way we can break free from trauma is therapy, to work with a professional who’ll help us properly go through all phases of grief and pain and come on the other side. Have you worked on your sexual abuse trauma in therapy already?
Tee
ParticipantDear Pavel,
He started a fire, massive explosion of emotions nobody did before and then he left.
After he asked for your phone number, did he call you? And what happened then?
It could be that the fire you’re experiencing is because you felt seen and understood by him, like you’ve never felt seen and understood before:
We had really intense conversation about our life storylines, favorite books and movies, drug and psychosis experiences (he has schizophrenia). We talked about life and death. About purpose and legacy.
If we feel seen and understood by someone, it can make us massively attracted to them. You feel you might have some type of brotherly bond with him, you perhaps felt a certain “remembrance” of your spiritual mission and purpose. All that could make him incredibly attractive to you.
He, I believe, was just a trigger, a catalyst, for you to start feeling yourself and your deepest yearnings more deeply. The goal is not necessarily to engage in a relationship with him – which as you said, is not healthy – but to start exploring yourself more deeply. It’s great you’re going to rehab, that’s the first step…
If you’d like to share some more about your life and the pain that you’ve experienced, you’re welcome to do so…
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This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by
Tee.
Tee
ParticipantDear lk09,
it’s a good strategy to focus on the things you enjoy and to “pamper”yourself, give yourself the best care and nurturance, and also new experiences.
Are you in touch with your girlfriend who offered to be your support buddy?
It’s only normal you’re thinking about him sometimes, but when he does pop in your mind, don’t just think of the (rare) good times when you felt close, don’t think at the beginning of your relationship when things were good, but think about the entire 2.5 years and the times he rejected you, told you he needs a break, is interested in other women and can’t be with you. Try not to remember him with those rose-colored glasses on, but take them off. See the reality of it, see that a lot of that relationship was suffering for you.
You wanted to be his No1, and you got that place only in the beginning perhaps, but he immediately started asking for breaks, questioning your relationship because of your sister’s disapproval, and later drinking and watching online porn, telling you he wants to explore other women. This isn’t how someone who loves you and values you behaves.
What you’re missing is a dream of a perfect relationship that in reality you never had with him, or perhaps there were occasional glimpses but they would go away the very next day. The dream never lasted, but you kept chasing it.
If you want to move on, see things as they are, and also that the dream of someone healing your internal craving – is an impossible dream. Only you can heal your craving, only you can give that inner child what she really needs.
Speaking of pictures, perhaps you can put up a picture of yourself as a child, to remind you of the person who now needs your attention and appreciation and love the most…
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This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by
Tee.
April 16, 2021 at 12:16 pm in reply to: Confused whether I was actually lead on by my closest guy friend #377890Tee
ParticipantDear Ishita,
Sorry, I thought it was very recent, and that you started to get back together again. But I understand now that before you took a break from the relationship, you had hot and cold phases, and this was one such “warming up” phase after a colder period. You still didn’t know at that point that he wasn’t interested in a relationship. I get it now.
Well, although in this particular incident he doesn’t seem very guilty, he had led you on, heavily flirted with you and gave you false hopes during November/December. And he probably knew what he was doing, since he recognized such behavior in other guys.
You have put him “on hold” and now your relationship is strictly formal (extremely formal on his side), but he’s waiting for your decision and for resuming the relationship in some form.
If I understood well, you now want to completely break off the friendship, because he betrayed your trust and you could never trust him again.
You’re in a dilemma about whether to:
- call him immediately and tell him that the friendship is over, or wait until your common project ends, to create less commotion,
- and if you call him, whether to tell him openly about the reasons for breaking-off the friendship and trying to make him see his mistake or not
These are your questions and dilemmas:
I think I should let him know (on call), that he shouldnt wait, and more than that I want to let him know that he just hurt me so bad that I cant even think of being friends with him (but I dont want to explain him why I think so, because I think I am done with that and I dont know what his reaction will be like, I seriously wouldnt want to get into an argument with him then)
Would that be a stupid idea,? And if not, would it be better if I call him right away since I feel this suffering or should I wait for this project to end peacefully first?
Now, the thing is I feel I shouldnt , sort out with him whatever I am feeling right now, because somewhere I feel, he would still not own up to his part of mistake, and instead would either defend himself by not analysing deeply or would indulge in gaslighting. So, I dont know if this confessing would actually help me let go or not?
But a part of me also believes that if he cared even a bit about me, then maybe he will understand and have a bit of remorse at least.
But I dont know what to do?
It’s not easy to tell, but perhaps you could wait for the project to end, and then talk to him. As for trying to explain to him how he betrayed your trust, you may want to do it, since it seems in your nature to want to explain things and not leave things unspoken and unresolved, if possible. So you might want to try to explain how he betrayed your trust, and that you don’t buy that he was clueless about what he was doing. You can try to “make your case”, and see his reaction.
The worst that can happen is that he again tries to gaslight you – to deny that there was any inappropriate behavior on his side and refuse his responsibility for misleading you. If you can deal with such denial, without starting to doubt yourself – so if you’re strong enough and able to deal with his potential gaslighting – then do it. If on the other hand you feel that he would be merciless and vicious (he might be if he is a narcissist) and that it would hurt you even more, then don’t do it.
That’s the best I can come up so far… but it’s not easy to decide, perhaps there are more things to take into consideration.
April 16, 2021 at 9:55 am in reply to: Confused whether I was actually lead on by my closest guy friend #377873Tee
ParticipantDear Ishita,
the incident you’ve just described, you said it happened recently. Does it mean in the last 2 weeks, since you first posted here?
If so, I’d have to say that you have expectations of him, as if he were your boyfriend, and he isn’t. So, he was silent all day, because he was sleeping, but you didn’t know about it, so you messaged him, and he called you. In this phone call he explained why he was not responsive, but you told him “he should have at least told me that instead of ignoring completely”. So you weren’t happy with his explanation, and resented him/got offended that he didn’t let you know that he’d be sleeping.
The reason why you had expectations and got upset is this:
Now, i was getting a bit anxious by the end, so I kind of was angry, that I felt that maybe we were connecting again because he had been video calling me evry day for a week then until that day, so I just didnt want to lose that again.
So you were hoping that there might still be something between the two of you, even though he told you he doesn’t want a relationship. But you started hoping again, and started having expectations on him.
Since you haven’t talked the matter through during the phone call (because one of you got interrupted), you expected to talk about it in more detail later, to resolve things:
He told me he will call me back so I waited, and had begun to feel that maybe this was wrong on my part he isnt my boyfriend and so I wanted to resolve this from my end as well if he called.
So I said that if he is busy we can maybe take it up later its fine, I can wait.
Here, one part of you started thinking that it’s maybe too much to expect of him to inform you about his every move, since he isn’t your boyfriend. This, rational, calm and polite part thinks you can wait. But the other part of you is pretty anxious, demanding and has expectations. That’s the inner conflict in you.
He himself can be pretty knit-picky too. He started to make a big deal of you ignoring his message “are you fine?”, although you did reply but indirectly. You tried to explain you did reply, but he didn’t accept your explanation. Same as you didn’t accept his explanation that he was sleeping and that’s why he didn’t respond to you.
Although he knows that I would have said sorry if without a thought, if i would have genuinely felt i ignored his msg.
You would have apologized if you felt guilty. Same as him – probably he would have apologized if he felt guilty. But he didn’t feel guilty for not letting you know that he’s sleeping – that’s why he said nothing.
This matter was really stupid and then he kind of started talking to me rudely, making fun of the way I was fumbling(which i do at times) and it really hurt me, so I told him on that call, that resolving an issue would be a different thing but one is never supposed to talk rudely to ppl close to them (he didnt use to do that before ) and he knew i dont talk to ppl in that tone, so he went silent and didnt apologize.
This is where he should have apologized for being rude and making fun of you. But I guess he didn’t want to apologize for what you originally accused him of (sleeping all the day) – that’s why he was silent. He did apologize though in a subsequent call:
And it went like that for seven days( we werent in contact) and it really hurt me very bad, that such a small matter could go on to this extent, seven days later he called me and i told him it wasnt ok to comeback like nothing happened, and that was the first time I burst in tears while saying that, I used to talk to him very politely and he knew that, and he was suddenly being rude to me just because he qas angry. But he felt really bad and sad and he did apologize, but I knew it was too late by then. I did forgive him
Indeed, it was a small matter, but you made a big deal out of it, and spent a week being hurt and offended. Perhaps you were offended that he made fun of you at some point, but I guess you were even more offended about his original “sin”, and you wanted to resolve it by having him apologize. Eventually he did apologize (I guess for the part where he was rude?), but it was too late for you (“I knew it was too late by then“). His apology wasn’t good enough, probably because he didn’t apologize for what you wanted him to apologize?
Dear Ishita, it seems to me that both of you are pretty stubborn, easily offended, and neither of you wants to be wrong. Plus, you have expectations on him that he should behave like your boyfriend. He refuses to do that, and gets angry and rude trying to defend himself.
But i guess this was the last fight we had after which I had really decided this was it, the confusion needs to go, we have been fighting just because of unmatched expectations
Yes, and before you talk to him, try to deal with your internal confusion. I guess you should accept that he doesn’t want to be your boyfriend, at least at the moment, even if he’s interacting with you on a regular basis. Because from what you wrote, it seems you can’t accept that, and are having expectations on him.
April 16, 2021 at 7:35 am in reply to: trying to live with unrelenting shame (maybe I should kill myself) #377863Tee
ParticipantDear ninibee,
now that Anita mentioned your first post on this thread, another thing caught my attention there. You said you’d been afraid to log in for a long while out of shame of what you’d posted earlier:
I have posted on these forums before, but spend large chunks of time avoiding logging back on out of shame for what I have posted. Maybe a few of you have experienced from those occasions, (I think) I am a quite disagreeable and dislikable person.
You believed that people on this forum might remember you as “quite disagreeable and dislikable person”, even though they later confirmed none of the kind. Both Anita and Brandy expressed that they had a positive experience interacting with you on previous threads. This means that you believe you leave a bad taste in people’s mouths, and that you say shameful things, when in fact it’s not true. It is your perception.
Has somebody actually told you you leave a bad taste in their mouth?
April 16, 2021 at 7:06 am in reply to: Confused whether I was actually lead on by my closest guy friend #377860Tee
ParticipantDear Ishita,
you said he sometimes used to just listen to you when you were upset about him, and didn’t say anything:
Whenever I used to bring these things to his notice, he either used to keep defending himself with baseless reasons or trying to be “overly technical” About everything(trying to show how smart he is) or when I used to really make him realise what was wrong, he would go entirely silent but never to own up and say sorry or give a rigid answer, unlike me.
There used to be times when I used to be upset for some unresolved issue of ours, and then he used to call me even though he be sleeping and I d keep telling him that we can take this up later, but it used to feel sweet how he used to not let go and listen to my take., (but eventually I realised that just listening wasnt helping, we were just wasting hours talking abt the same thing again and again because he didnt use to give me a rigid answer., just used to listen)
First, could you give an example of how he was being “overly technical”? And what was the issue that you accused him of, to which he “defended” himself just with silence?
April 16, 2021 at 5:46 am in reply to: Confused whether I was actually lead on by my closest guy friend #377852Tee
ParticipantDear Ishita,
Thanks for giving some examples…
So then I get this angry message from him, that u just told me u werent available , and now u are in the meeting and I was waiting for you(when I had already let him know that I wouldnt want him to wait) . So, I left the meeting and called him immediately, but he just wouldn’t pick my calls at that point and neither talk to me, he was pissed for I dont know what reasons. But unresolved issues make me bothered even if it doesn’t to him
Well, this incident when you couldn’t come on meet (and texted him about it), after which he got offended and acted like a spoiled brat – definitely shows his immaturity. Not only then, but on multiple other occasions too, he expected you to drop everything for him, to always be available, to talk to him first before talking to anybody else – but he didn’t do the same for you. It really seems he used you when he needed you to boost his mood, but I don’t think he genuinely cared about you.
And you’re right that he probably knew what he was doing by leading you on, because he could see and recognize similar behavior in other guys. So he’s not that innocent and clueless as he’s portraying himself to be.
And apart from these conversations there used to be his weird expectations that I talk to him first before anyone else if I told him i will call him back or so and let him know whenever I am gng out (which is kind of what a boyfriend would say)
Actually, if he’s a narcissist, this might have even been his strategy to make you believe he cares about you. Like, I care so much, I am so possessive of you. It looked like a behavior of a jealous boyfriend, and no wonder you thought he might really have feelings for you. But it might have been actually an act…
This is what I’ve got so far, I am still thinking about the best plan of action, and whether you should confront him. Let’s wait what Anita has to say…
April 16, 2021 at 4:12 am in reply to: Confused whether I was actually lead on by my closest guy friend #377842Tee
ParticipantDear Ishita,
you’re welcome!
He started to become more about himself, and criticising me for smallest of things, making me feel uncomfortable.
Could you give an example of what he was criticizing about you?
Whenever I used to bring these things to his notice, he either used to keep defending himself with baseless reasons or trying to be “overly technical” About everything(trying to show how smart he is) or when I used to really make him realise what was wrong, he would go entirely silent but never to own up and say sorry or give a rigid answer, unlike me.
Again, if you could give an example of a situation where you had a quarrel, and how he was trying to defend himself?
I think it’d help me get a little better picture of his character…
April 16, 2021 at 2:28 am in reply to: Confused whether I was actually lead on by my closest guy friend #377835Tee
ParticipantDear Ishita,
Good to read from you again! I am sorry you’re still struggling with feeling betrayed and disappointed in your friend. This is what I am noticing so far: you appear to be someone who is very cautious not to send wrong signals to male friends:
I m someone who is very particular about what kind of vibe each and everything in my life is setting in me that includes the things that I do and the people I am involved with.
And incase of a male friend I am even more careful, because I have almost always had a bad experience with getting close to a guy friend that they kind of start having feelings even though they know I dont feel that way. And then it no longer stays the same.
You are very careful not to cross boundaries and not to be misunderstood, because you had a bad experience with a male friend misinterpreting your kindness and openness, I guess, and it was uncomfortable for you. So you’re super cautious not to send the wrong vibe.
You believed he was a solid guy, you respected him a lot and looked up to him, so you thought he is similar like you and would never send wrong signals and cross boundaries unless he meant it. You believed that he shared the same values as you do in this respect, and that he’s mature enough not to lead people astray. What I am thinking is that he might be mature and responsible enough in other fields, like his studies, and supporting you in standing up for what’s right, but it doesn’t mean he has the emotional maturity and insight that you do. It appears you’re emotionally more mature than he is.
He probably felt good receiving all that attention from you, especially after his breakup, when his self-esteem was hurt, and he didn’t think about the consequences. Maybe he was aware of what he was doing but didn’t have the emotional maturity to stop himself from doing it.
And then it struck me, that if all of this never meant to him as crossing the friendship boundaries, did I even know this person? Was he even ever a friend or was he selfish enough to let our friendship be ruined for his personal means?
I’d say you knew him partially, but not completely. This situation revealed that he probably lacks emotional maturity. Was he selfish? Well yes, he did what felt good to him without thinking much of the consequences. I’m not sure though how aware he was of what he was doing to you. That’s why it’s good you asked him and clarified it.
This really broke me, he is one of the only two friends of mine with whom I have tried to stay in touch everyday, (the other is my bestfriend ) and now it shatters my self esteem that I could allow someone to have this much of my attention and affect with their toxic behaviour in my life. I feel bad that i thought i could trust him with myself, that even though guys have this tendency of leading girls on, he is not one of em.
You seem to be disappointed not only in him, but also in yourself for not seeing his intentions earlier. For not seeing that he wasn’t really this perfect guy you thought him to be. Well, it wasn’t your fault really, because you didn’t have a full picture of him earlier. You saw him as solid, reliable, responsible, kind… because you weren’t in a position to see him from this proximity. Now you had the chance, and you’re not in an illusion any more.
I don’t know if he’s narcissistic – which means irreparably selfish and self-centered – or he simply needs more self-awareness and emotional maturity. Perhaps you’d need to figure that out before you decide how to proceed with him.
These are my thoughts for now, let me know what you think…
April 15, 2021 at 11:27 pm in reply to: trying to live with unrelenting shame (maybe I should kill myself) #377832Tee
ParticipantDear ninibee,
you’re absolutely not wasting my time, and I don’t feel you’re spinning around in circles, and I am so glad you’re posting. I believe we all were able to understand a little better the reasons for your unrelenting shame – which most probably stem from your very early childhood, and are related to your mother not meeting your needs. They have nothing to do you with being unlikeable or repulsive or shameful. Try to understand at least that. It wasn’t your fault that your legitimate needs weren’t properly met.
I know it’s hard for you at the moment, and you’re identifying with your older self, who might have done some shameful things, but remember that it was all a reaction, a consequence of your childhood wounding. You, as a young, confused adult, were in pain, and you behaved accordingly. What Anita said a few days ago was so true, and it resonated with you: “I was mentally unwell, confused, desperate, in pain, and therefore likely to act in shameful ways. And I did.”
So try to see your shameful acts not as a reflection of your true self, but as a consequence of being in pain. And then try to see beyond them, and see in front of yourself that little adorable baby who needed to be lovingly touched and cuddled and cooed to and smiled at, and enjoyed that she exists… but she wasn’t. She was rejected. And she started to believe there’s something wrong with her, she started to feel shame, she might have even felt she was a creep, a monster… (I felt that about myself). And when we’re in so much pain, we need ways to soothe or numb ourselves, and we act out.
Please try to see it as it was, and have compassion for yourself, because none of it was your fault. And please keep posting here, you have nothing to be ashamed of, and you’ve helped me too with your sharing <3
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This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by
Tee.
Tee
ParticipantDear lk09,
I wish I had simple lives like those friends of mine who met their partners in college and married them after college.
If we had simple lives, we wouldn’t be here on this forum 🙂
I read somewhere that around 50% of people in the US (elsewhere might be different) are securely attached as children, which means they later don’t have problems in creating healthy relationships, while 50% are insecurely attached (be it anxious, avoidant, or disorganized), which later creates problems in relationships. So, we belong to 50% of the population… which means there are many many people like us. Very rare are those who marry their high-school sweetheart and remain with them till the end…
I have never met anyone who cherished me like I was a prize they won.
That’s a part of the craving, I’ve tried to explain it before. You said you wanted him to not be ashamed to walk hand in hand with you and show the world that you are his. It’s your craving to be valued and affirmed that you’re special and important – which you haven’t received in your family. In your family your sister was special and important, while you were secondary, you weren’t seen, your wishes weren’t respected, you were bullied. I am thinking your sister is probably narcissistic, and has abused you, and your parents never stood to protect you, but rather, defended and excused her abusive behavior. The result is that you feel unwanted, lesser, unimportant, not special… You crave to be someone’s No1.
But even if you get it from someone, it won’t satisfy the inner craving – you need to heal the craving by accepting your own worth and specialness. And then, someone who is able to truly appreciate you and remember your birthday and make you his No1 will show up…
I don’t think I know what a healthy normal relationship is like. And I am afraid.
Work on your self-esteem, learn how to value yourself, and you’ll start attracting people who truly appreciate you, not in an obsessive way (like “I can’t live without you, I am lost without you, I am no one and you give my life meaning”), but in a healthy way…
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This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by
Tee.
Tee
ParticipantDear lk09,
Why did it have to be a person whom everyone disapproved of in my house? why did it have to be a long-distance relationship and why were things always tougher for us than other people?? this hurts a lot, these questions do.
It appears it was a long-distance relationship not just because of covid, but also because you weren’t sure it would succeed:
I was also scared that if I move into the same city as him and he breaks my heart, the city might haunt me for life.
It wasn’t just circumstances or your family who prevented you to be with him. It was the two of you, he being ambivalent and playing the push-pull game, and you being afraid to move into his city, lest you be disappointed and judged/condemned by your family. But mostly, things were hard because he was ambivalent, he wanted breaks, he told you about having interest in other women etc. It had nothing to do with long distance. Even when he came to visit you this February, and things looked promising, he later went back into his ambivalent, fearful mode, not knowing if he really wants to be with you or not.
I know it’s hard to face, but the above is why it was tougher for you than for other people. True love and dedication and commitment was missing on his part. If he wanted it to succeed, he would have done something about it – you gave him million opportunities. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think it’s better to see things as they are than to seek excuses for why things didn’t work out and torturing yourself in the process…
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This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by
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