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ParticipantDear SereneWolf,
I told you about my CEN (Childhood Emotional Neglect) Right?
Yes, you have. I’ve mentioned the inner child healing again, because it seems to me like we might be getting closer to understand the key wound of your inner child, which is lack of self-esteem and the fear of being judged. If deep down you still believe you’re not good enough, or not worthy enough, then this might be why you don’t want to be “seen”.
Ohh I see. So just enduring silently could be pretty damaging as well.
Very much so! In the Bible, it’s called the sin of omission – the failure to do something which was right and necessary. For me as a child, my father’s silence was very damaging, because I had no one to defend me. So in my mind, it meant that my mother’s judgments of me were true and that indeed, there is something terribly wrong with me.
What a great way to explain! I agree with that. But like what does it mean to let them see into us? Does it mean let them know what we’re thinking without judging, without fear of criticizing, and also being vulnerable or something more?
All of the above. Also, share your hopes and dreams without fear of being ridiculed, for example. Let them know if something hurts you (rather than giving them silent treatment). Let them know if you’re worried about something, discuss your feelings, rather than stuffing them and pretending that everything is okay. Let them know what you need from them, rather than expecting they should read your mind.
Yes maybe this inner feeling not being worthy is damaging me for so long that I lost track of my own self.
Right! One step at a timeWell, you’ve got a strong inner critic, which so far you were mostly aware related to your career (e.g. you were scolding yourself for not doing enough work, or for lagging behind in your career goals, etc). So, the inner critic was quite obvious in your career, and you’ve been doing some important things recently to lessen his impact: you’ve learned how to have more self-compassion and stop pushing yourself to do more and faster all the time (i.e. you’ve lessened the impact of the “drill sergeant”). You’ve lessened the impossible expectations on yourself, work-wise.
In your relationships, I’d say that so far the outer critic was more pronounced (more than the inner critic), because you’ve been mostly critical about the girls you were with and finding faults in them. But it could be that this outer critic is just a defense mechanism, which allowed you to not go deeper with a girl, to not show yourself really. A defense mechanism against true intimacy. Because if you judge someone and feel superior to them, you don’t really want to be vulnerable with them. As you noticed it yourself, it kills the chance for intimacy:
Yes, and it makes them feel inferior which makes things even worse. Because they don’t feel much comfortable after that. Eg. “Share their true self” And as the comfort decreases, means the distance is just increasing. Right?
Yes, if there is this superior-inferior dynamic going on, the distance increases and intimacy becomes impossible. That’s why I am thinking that your outer critic (which is this superior, judgmental, critical persona that you tend to put on in romantic relationships) could be a defense mechanism against vulnerability. This “persona” serves to protect your inner child from being seen and being hurt. This could be the shield around your heart that we were talking about…. What do you say? Do you think it’s possible?
I mean with my parents I still do, but not with my romantic interests.
Oh I see – it’s great that your girlfriends liked your spontaneity!
Thanks for giving me hope though. I was about to give up if I didn’t find out its not only about dating but it’s much more deeper thing to resolve.
You’re welcome! Yeah, romantic relationships are always about deeper things, since there’s always a connection between our attachment trauma and the way we behave in relationships.
Like today pretty much every one have some issues related to childhood that they need to address and work on. But instead feeling like a victim. Being mindful in the present and accept that and he quotes from the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna said: “Whatever happened, happened for the good; Whatever is happening, is happening for the good; Whatever will happen, will also happen for the good only.”
Yes, it’s a good way to look at it – not to feel like a victim, but rather, see our childhood as something that shaped us but also something that we can grow from and transcend. I don’t know if you’ve heard about it, but there is a Japanese art of kintsugi – repairing broken pottery with gold. The idea is that our “cracks”, i.e. our wounds and painful experiences can make us beautiful, if we manage to heal them and integrate them into our life.
Just think about it like if everything went perfectly would you have this drive to improve yourself and work on yourself every day? Probably not. So it’s like bitter and sweet things mixed cocktail which is fun thing about life and that’s what makes it interesting and worth living not just like a raw water.
Actually yes, we can learn and grow from challenges…
Makes me think that striving for this inner peace is nothing less than a great war against ourselves.
Well, inner peace is important, but I think if we want to achieve it by hiding from the world, hiding from challenges, then it’s not the real thing…
Tee
ParticipantDear Katrine,
so good to hear from you! I am glad you’ve been feeling better lately and also managing your anxiety around the guy better. Yes, he seems like playing his usual games, provoking you on purpose, sitting in front of you while making out with his girlfriend, then later filming you while you were dancing….
It’s like he wants to have power over you, but not only over you, but other women as well, since you say he’s been fooling around with girls, cheating on his current girlfriend etc. Probably keeping women interested in him gives a boost to his ego, and it’s like a game for him. As I said, I don’t like him at all…
And it’s so good to hear that you’re not super anxious around him any more, and that your interest is turning towards the chef. He does seem sweet and caring, and I do hope your relationship deepens. Is he planning to come back after he visits his home country?
Tee
ParticipantDear SereneWolf,
Yes the IMPRINT! That’s the thing I’m working on
Yes, and the imprint is carried by the inner child… that’s why it needs inner child healing.
Yes I can say that’s really similar what happened to me. But what do you think what stopped your father and my mother from protecting us?
Well, my father had his own emotional wounding related to his mother. I think he was trying to get love and validation from his emotionally distant mother. He repeated that in the relationship with his wife, i.e. my mother. So he always tried to “please” and “appease” my mother, and he never wanted conflict with her. It was important for him that my mother isn’t angry with him. That was his priority, not my well-being or even his own well-being. And so he stayed silent and endured what he shouldn’t have endured.
With your mother, there could have been also cultural factors at play, maybe that women shouldn’t object to their husbands? So perhaps that contributed to your mother staying silent?
I totally agree with you! I do feel like I’m missing deeper sense of self-worth. And recently quite a lot
I see… yes, if you’re missing a deeper sense of self-worth, it’s very likely related to that incessant criticism that you’ve heard from your father and grandfather….
Right! and that’s the reason why I also still have fear of commitment. It feels so scary.
Right… because the closest relationships for you were a source of stress and humiliation, not a source of encouragement and support. And also broader relationships weren’t too supportive either, because as you’ve said, it was all about rivalry and who is more accomplished, who makes more money etc. No wonder you didn’t want to show any vulnerability, or your true self.
But do you know what Henry Cloud’s definition of intimacy is? Intimacy = into me see.
We need to allow the other person to see us, to see into us, otherwise there can be no intimacy and no real relationship.
It could be that your inner child is still afraid to be seen, because he believes he’s not good enough, not worthy enough? But if you can truly believe that you’re good enough and have so many good qualities, and that you don’t need to be perfect (unlike your parents and grandparents told you!)… then you might allow another person to “see into you”. As we’ve talked about before, you don’t need to spill out all your deepest secrets on the first date, just maybe share one vulnerable thing and see how she reacts…
For spontaneity I don’t feel criticized. Because in my previous relationships I received lot of good compliments about it and I myself believe that without spontaneity relationships are much less fun..
I said it because you mentioned earlier that you fear they might judge you for your spontaneity:
I know I’m in touch with my inner child and I still do lot of things that an adult actually doesn’t do like I turned into a kid when I’m with kids, Different kind of bicycling, Singing and dancing for no reason (Lot of times while cooking, Watching Anime and Cartoons and lot of things like that) And I kind of fear they would judge me for that and not actually understand.
But it’s good if you feel you can be spontaneous and playful after all!
I want to get out from this fearsome repetitive cycle. So, I will date and experiment till I have the success.
Good! I guess you can now be more mindful while dating and observe yourself, and notice if the fear arises… which is already a big step!
Tee
ParticipantDear Emma,
I am really sorry for what happened to you. It is so unfair and humiliating that a woman of such questionable character (M) managed to guilt-trip K into marrying her, after he’d already met you and seen through her intentions. It is unfortunate that he couldn’t say No to her blackmail and send her away. It is even stranger than he proceeded to stay married to her for 8 years (if I am counting well), until she took all of his money and left the country to marry another man. During the time they were together, she was mistreating him, humiliating him and insulting him in front of everyone.
All of this is telling me that K allowed to be fooled and abused by M for many years, and that you and your love were not enough to stop him from making self-destructive decisions. There was something in him – a sense of guilt or low self-esteem – which made him work against himself.
Unfortunately, this self-destructive drive is still in him. Because you – the woman he claims he loves – have forgiven him. And you are willing to leave behind the past and start anew. But he doesn’t want it, he is depressed, he “isn’t interested in doing much of anything “, and he refuses to see a therapist. Again, a self-destructive drive at play…
You’re right when you say that you’re being punished again (I can’t help but feel as if I’m still being punished instead of her). Now, after she sucked the life out of him (which he allowed) and he probably feels defeated and ruined, you should live with the consequences and accept that he is a ruined man. But why? He could get better if he wanted to. If he really cared about you, he would agree to seek help.
But something within him doesn’t let him, and he prefers to stay miserable. And he would like your company…. Well, you don’t need to keep him company in his misery. You deserve more. If he isn’t willing to help himself, you don’t have to be a part of it.
I know it’s hard for you, since he is the man you really loved. But please be wise and don’t let yourself be fooled once again…
Tee
ParticipantDear frozenfireflies,
Because of my own struggles I’m currently in psychomotor therapy, because talk therapy has not worked well for me at all. I’ve only been with this new therapist for a few sessions but I have high hopes.
It’s great that you’re currently in therapy and that you like your new therapist!
This will hopefully teach me to stay more regulated and not get into this abandonment trap of anxiety.
Yes, I think that if you can lessen the fear of conflict (and the fear of abandonment, as it seems), it would enable you to stand up for yourself and not feel defeated and powerless in the face of your husband’s anger.
My husband is indeed someone who really can’t say no very well. He has a real history of taking responsibility, to his own detriment even. Part of the problem here is that I think his standards are a bit too high and he doesn’t have enough trust. “No one does a good job if I don’t step up” – that almost seems to be his mantra, whether he realises it or not. It would really serve him well to work through his own past issues that are holding a grip over his present life.
I don’t name call, I don’t do character attacks, I don’t swear at him and yet he still feels some kind of pull to this aggressive communication style when there’s conflict.
I’ve been reading from the book “Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving” by Pete Walker. He says that when people have a lot of unresolved anger (from their childhood), they may become very critical of others, i.e. have a strong outer critic. This outer critic can be very judgmental of others, feel superior to others and also feel justified to get angry frequently and dump their anger where it doesn’t belong.
As for getting angry frequently, Pete Walker calls it “emotional flashbacks” – the person gets triggered by something (say their partner leaves dirty dishes in the sink), and this makes them feel unloved and unappreciated, and as a reaction, they react angrily. So a small “incident” can lead them to overreact – because they interpret it in a negative way, as if their partner wanted to hurt them deliberately.
You mentioned that your husband gets upset with you for “leaving things” and not being as tidy as he would like you to be. So perhaps something like that happens with him too? And that’s why he reacts with anger to something that is otherwise not a big deal and could be discussed peacefully?
Tee
ParticipantDear SereneWolf,
I totally agree like you mentioned (and even others told me) I was resourceful and pretty much self- reliant. But the thing is that for my parents and grandparents they never saw that as my good accomplishments. They were always like look what he did at this age? Look what he accomplished? Mainly my grandfather and father (Both are very “perfectionist” nature) So instead of praising they were criticizing me and that made me realize that no matter what I’ll do I wouldn’t be good enough for them. (I realized that years ago)
Good that you’ve realized it at a relatively young age! But the imprint stayed, and so their perfectionism became your own perfectionist inner critic. Which is telling you that you’re not good enough, not accomplishing enough at work, not earning enough money etc etc. It’s sad that both your father and grandfather were perfectionists, so you received a double dose of criticism.
Not only that, but it seems there was no male role model who could have served as a positive father figure (“My neighbors are like that, older relatives etc because they grew up in competitive environment“). So you were surrounded by bad role models…
Yes, I can totally relate! I know that feeling, but it must have been hard for you. In my case it was my grandfather. And even though I had good grades, It wasn’t enough! I felt literally pressurized to be in the Top 3 students! and yet I still made it as a Top 1st student till the end of high school. Just to feed their ego. So he can talk others like “look my grandson has always been the 1st”.
Right… so for your grandfather, it seems you were a tool to boost his vanity and pride. He boasted to others with your accomplishments, while at the same time he wasn’t really proud of you, but kept criticizing you. I can see how damaging it was for you, and how toxic. I understand why you wanted to get away ASAP…
But Because my mother and grandmother never criticized me for that and just loved me without any expectations from me. so It was kind of sane place for me. Otherwise, I swear I’d have to run in the jungle much earlier and never return.
It’s good you weren’t criticized by your mother and grandmother. However, I get the feeling that they didn’t protect you from your father’s and grandfather’s criticism either. Your mother told you to take your father’s criticism silently and “maturely”, so basically she never challenged your father to change his approach. My father never protected me from my mother’s criticism either. That’s why the damage done by my mother was much bigger than it should have been. Because my father allowed the abuse and didn’t say anything. I think something similar happened to you too?
And sometimes I think how self-confident, fearless and full of hope kid I used to be. Because of the criticized father and my inner criticism over the years my self-confident and self-esteem is still quite low, and it did affect my career and relationships quite a bit. So I still have to work on my self-esteem and self-confidence.
Yeah, and I think there is even a difference between self-esteem and self-confidence. Self-esteem is a basic sense of self-worth (which doesn’t depend on any skill that you possess), whereas self-confidence is related to various skills we have. Say a professional athlete may have a lot of self-confidence that they are good at sports, but once they get injured, they may feel worthless because their self-esteem was based on their skills and not on a deep inner sense that they are worthy as a person.
Perhaps you too feel self-confident is some things, but what is missing is a deeper sense of self-worth, of being worthy simply because you exist?
Yes I believe I can resonate. Because those lines hits me. As you know in my previous relationships, I wasn’t being my true self and shielded my heart.
Right.. and it seems to me that you’re very cautious with relationships not only because of your father’s (and grandfather’s) criticism, but also because you weren’t protected enough by your mother. So relationship might seem like a very scary thing, where no one is on your side?
Okay so I’m not sure if my subconscious mind believes in that but I’m sure that my conscious mind doesn’t believe competition in the relationships. It was mostly fear of judgments, criticism and inability to express my emotions properly.
Okay, you’re afraid to be judged by your partner. So to protect yourself, you rather judge her and make her seem deficient, so to feel less vulnerable? Like, you first judge her before she can judge you?
This part could be true though. Conscious and subconscious both levels
Okay, so you don’t want a relationship to be a competition and a power struggle. You hate it. And that’s why you’d rather not go into it. But the problem is that a part of you believes that relationship is a power struggle. Or at least that being in a relationship means being judged, criticized and hurt. That you can’t show your weaknesses, or even your spontaneity (like dancing while cooking lunch) without being criticized. Right?
And if you approach relationships from that vantage point (which is a vantage point of fear), then I think it’s better not to date. Because you’ll likely get more of the same. But if you work on slowly dissolving that fear, on realizing why it’s there and then dissolving it… that’s when you open yourself to a different kind of dynamic in a relationship. To a possibility of a healthy relationship.
That would be my answer to your question whether you’re ready to date (You think I’m ready? Or I still need lot of healing even to start dating someone?). I think you’re ready to date if you can let go of some of that fear of judgment in the relationship. We can talk more about it, if you’d like to…
Tee
ParticipantI’ve noticed a typo in the quote by Pete Walker. It should be like this:
Subliminal memories of being scorned for seeking our parents’ support
Tee
ParticipantDear SereneWolf,
Omg yeah It wasn’t easy! and they tried lot of things to make me stay. But I was really stubborn about it and figured every answer to their worries. And still, they’d call me every day for more than two months.
It seems you were pretty resourceful, already at that age. And really self-confident in a sense, because you knew you could make it on your own, without your parents’ protection. The fact that they worried and called you every day is normal I think, because you were a minor when you decided to live alone… so I wouldn’t call that excessive worry.
In fact, I am thinking now that their biggest mistake as parents wasn’t excessive worry (because you sort of gave them the reasons to be worried 🙂 ), but rather, it could be the criticism and judgment that you grew up with. Feeling constantly criticized (e.g. your father was very harsh with you when you didn’t hand him the proper tool right away), always compared to others, perhaps always feeling that something is wrong with you and that you’re not good enough? Like, being seen not with loving, accepting eyes, but with strict, judgmental eyes, who always evaluate you and seek a reason to criticize you?
This seems to me the greatest wounding that you’ve experienced. I’ve experienced the same from my mother. She took my good results at school for granted, never praised me for that, and at the same time she looked for every opportunity to scold me. There was always something wrong with me, in her eyes… and so I grew up with the belief that there is something fundamentally wrong with me. My self-esteem was zero.
Children who grow up being heavily criticized develop the harsh inner critical voice (which we’ve talked about already), but they can also develop the outer critic, as the flip side of the inner critic. According to Pete Walker, the outer critic is our defense mechanism against getting hurt in intimate relationships:
“CPTSD typically include an attachment disorder that comes from the absence of a sympathetic caregiver in childhood. When the developing child lacks a supportive parental refuge, she never learns that other people can soothe loneliness and emotional pain. She never learns that real intimacy grows out of sharing all of her experience.
To the degree that our caretakers attack or abandon us for showing vulnerability, to that degree we later avoid the authentic self-expression that is fundamental to intimacy. The outer critic forms to remind us that everyone else is surely as dangerous as our original caretakers. Subliminal memories of being scorned for seeing our parents’ support then short-circuit our inclination to share our troubles and ask for help.”
The above is the excerpt from Pete Walker’s book “Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving”. It could be that you felt very unsafe and criticized when you showed vulnerability or weakness in front of your parents. This might have given you the message that being anything less than “perfect” means being judged and rejected. It also might have led you to believe that the person you are in the relationship with is there to judge you and criticize you.
You might even subconsciously believe that this is what relationships are all about: competition, who is better, who is more successful, who is more “perfect”. If so, you naturally want to either win in that competition (be the “more perfect” one, and judge the other person for her supposed deficiencies), or you want to leave the competition altogether (not be in a relationship at all).
Would you say this is true for you? I have more to say and I’d also like to answer your questions, but let me know if the above resonates with you?
Tee
ParticipantDear frozenfireflies,
I get it that it’s hard for you because it seems that when your husband is upset and critical with you, it triggers the fear of abandonment:
With our conflict styles, it’s typically my husband who will be unhappy/withdrawing and myself who is the pursuer, desperately trying to set things right and create a sense of harmony. This makes it extremely hard for me to walk away to pause a conflict, because I become very clingy when I sense this “threat”. I think my husband’s way of handling conflict triggers something visceral inside me that signals danger to me. I’d literally beg him to stay and “talk things out”.
Somehow I’m just desperate for closeness.
Would you that abandonment is what you’re fearing the most?
Since you’re not able to set boundaries (e.g. tell him you’ll take a time-out and go to the other room until he calms down), this dynamic will likely continue, because your husband isn’t really willing to do much about it. He is “aware” that he could be more loving and gentle, but he doesn’t want to do anything about it:
he fully agrees with me when we are both calm. He knows he should be more loving and gentle and not so armoured so quickly. But this hasn’t yet translated into a different kind of behaviour. … There are many practices out there that can help, but it’s always time, money, etc… You can guess all the reasons. He is not against reading the book at all, it’s just about carving out that time to read.”
You also said that whenever you try applying any of the mindfulness techniques, he resists:
I have asked him a few times to co-regulate when we were getting too agitated over something, to hold my hands and just breathe together, but he didn’t want to do that at all. And when I use the NC approach and try to observe and name his feelings/needs, he just gets annoyed by me.
So in practice, he isn’t interested in changing his habits, and I think that unfortunately he won’t be interested as long as you’re allowing it and always trying to placate him.
A separate, but related problem is his own trauma and perhaps a feeling of powerlessness and frustration about his sister: I know that my husband has struggled with bullying as a child, and that applies to myself too. I also know that my husband has a toxic sister, who has a history lying, gaslighting, manipulation, etc.
He also seems powerless at his work place: “He struggles with burnout in different areas – work-related, parental and relationship burnout. He feels he doesn’t get enough time to practice basic self-care. His job doesn’t give him any satisfaction and demands a lot of him“.
So a lot of demands on him, and he feels like he can’t say No to people. He also was quick to start picking up clothes after your oldest son, instead of perhaps telling him not to do that? (I don’t know how old your son is and if it’s applicable?) Specially since his back hurts…
It’s like he can’t say No and often feels powerless in life. And then he takes out his frustration on you, instead of dealing with the real cause of his frustration. You’re a little bit of a (verbal) punching bag for him, to let out steam…
What do you say? Does this resonate?
Tee
ParticipantDear SereneWolf,
Bună Tee
Is that Romanian? Had to look it up but am still not sure…
You always give great examples. Thanks!
You’re welcome!
It was actually just recently few months ago. I started the swimming classis and after that I told them. So my parents wouldn’t argue with me.
Oh I see, it was recent. What would they argue with you? That you shouldn’t take swimming classes because it’s dangerous?
Heck they’re even worried that I’m letting a stray cat inside my place. They be like she might have diseases and blah blah blah.. I’m like I’ll go to the vet and give her vaccination. So, you don’t have to worry about that. Literally no one in my family grown up with a pet. So I did see that coming.
Yeah, it does seem they are a little overprotective. I wonder how they’ve survived you leaving home at the age of 16 and living alone, if they are so worried about you even to this day? How did they even allow it?
But it’s right I did act like an overprotective, critical father! Not all the time but still…
Yeah, and there might be a similarity with how your parents acted with you (and are still acting with you). Overprotective, trying to control you (although not succeeding), and doing it “for your own good”…
Or is it just like my parent thinks they still have to care about me like even though I’m not a kid anymore…
Yes, it does seem like that… that you tend to behave in romantic relationships a little bit like your parents behave with you…
Striving towards Perfection (specially with Humans) isn’t a wise thing to do I guess… and I tried to make them “perfect” the way I wanted even though at that time I just saw it as a care and concerned about their health.
Yeah, it’s pretty destructive for the relationship if you see the person as “lacking” and try to make them “perfect”. The person feels not good enough, whereas you put yourself in a superior position, and basically judge and criticize them for “underperforming”. Of course, you can say it’s all with a good intention, “for their own good”, but it’s not a healthy, equal relationship.
In a healthy relationship, we accept the person as they are – we don’t try to change them and mold them into something that we would like them to be. It doesn’t mean we need to tolerate and accept some of their bad habits, however fundamentally we don’t try to change the person to be something they are not. It’s like we look at them with love and acceptance, not with a measuring stick that says “not good enough”.
But it’s right I did act like an overprotective, critical father! Not all the time but still… And after that I get exhausted and give up on the relationship.
Yeah, no wonder, because it’s like you’re in a war with the person, trying to make her do what you think is right for her, and she wouldn’t… And maybe you think she doesn’t love you if she resists, if she has different priorities and preferences than you? And so you conclude it’s not worth the trouble because things can’t be the way you want them to be?
External environment could be the big reason as well not just my friends but like everywhere I see it just that all be like it’s lot of mind games and complex – not like clear communication as it should be. So yeah it’s like a confirmation bias
Yes, it seems some of your friends tell you you need to “play the game”, which makes it look like some kind of competition, like who is going to outsmart whom… Whereas a healthy relationship is not a competition, but a loving and supportive co-existence (or something like that, I can’t think of a better definition now 🙂 ).
The way I perceive my past relationships. Like Did I even had a healthy relationship before that I’m longing for it again?
So because of these reasons, I just feel more hopeless and I just feel not excited for dating. Not more than Maybe just some time spending and physical pleasure.
I imagine you haven’t had a healthy relationship so far, because of those emotional wounds and programming that stem from your childhood. So no wonder you fear more of the same… But what you’ve experienced so far isn’t what a true relationship looks like. Trust that you too can have a healthy relationship, but you’d need to heal some of your patterns before that’s possible.
And yeah what about you? Did you celebrate valentine week?
Well, not particularly, I did get flowers from my husband. But we’ve never really paid attention to that date, so I don’t consider it important. But we do have a very good and strong relationship, and that’s what matters most 🙂
Tee
ParticipantDear Glofish75,
is he talking about his marriage problems, complaining about his wife, stuff like that? Those would be signs that he might be emotionally cheating on her…
Tee
ParticipantDear norit,
I am very sorry about your father passing and you finding yourself in a very difficult situation.
It doesn’t always feel safe to leave her at home as she will fall over, or injure herself and not realise, or leave the oven on, among other things.
If your mother is dangerous to herself, is there a possibility to place her in an elderly home? Because it is a lot to ask from yourself and your brother to sacrifice your lives for your mother – when she doesn’t want to do anything to help herself, and is in fact denying that she has a problem.
I know it’s hard to do that with a loved one, because we naturally care and feel guilty for not helping them. But in this case, you’re not really helping her – because what she would really need is help with becoming sober. But she doesn’t want that, she wants to keep destroying her life.
What you’ve been doing so far is trying to soften the blows and minimize the consequences that she is inflicting upon herself. But unfortunately, you’re ruining yourself in the process too, and the result is a lose-lose situation for everyone involved, specially for you and your brother.
That’s why I don’t think it’s sustainable to keep caring about her, in a way that she dictates the rules and you’re just trying to do damage control. It’s exhausting.
Please do to seek help, perhaps first in a support group for families of addicts, like Brandy suggested. They may give you useful information about how to cope better and find a more sustainable solution for you and your brother.
Wishing you strength!
Tee
ParticipantDear Katrine,
So my manager (the one who harrased the girl who reported him, and acted in apropiatly)
You mean the manager who harassed the girl for reporting the head chef was fired? Good that she had a proof about it!
I am so glad you’ve enjoyed your time with your parents, just the three of you! It was so nice of them to come promptly and support you during this hectic period. I can feel from your words that you appreciated it so much and had such a good time!
Tee
ParticipantDear frozenfireflies,
when we have conflict it’s typically a situation where my husband complains or has a criticism directed at me – which is not unreasonable in itself – but it’s the way he expresses himself that makes me feel hurt and unsafe emotionally. It’s also very often something ABOUT me or how I express myself, like that I’m too stressed or heightened and triggering him, even though my stress has nothing to do with him – sometimes I just have intense emotions about something we discuss.
About half of all our days my husband gets unhappy or irritated about something with me.
It seems to me that your husband is very critical of you, and often blames you for no good reason, i.e. that he has a tendency to relieve his stress on you. It seems you’re his scapegoat and he feels entitled to get upset with you and scorn you whenever he pleases. His criticism doesn’t seem like constructive criticism, but just his bitterness about life that he dumps on you.
I think you shouldn’t allow such treatment any more. But it could be that you do allow it because you feel you do partially deserve it (my husband complains or has a criticism directed at me – which is not unreasonable in itself)?
Even if his criticism is sometimes “reasonable”, there is a loving and respectful way to express what bothers him, which isn’t based upon sarcasm and hostility.
I think that probably you need to be more assertive and tell him that you won’t allow to be treated like that because it hurts you. And that when he starts treating you like that (yelling at you, dumping his anger and frustration at you, putting you down), that you will leave the room, or something like that. You shouldn’t be taking his verbal abuse and hostility any more. I think you should protect yourself from it.
Tee
ParticipantDear SereneWolf,
I wish I could tell you I am feeling better, but I am not unfortunately… I’ll let you know if there’s some progress finally…
Yes I know but his mother is good natured and nice with me. So I’ll try to present this matter clear and calmly as possible. Because another thing I noticed is that I think she’s the main decision maker, her husband is naïve and he’s mostly saying yes to her. It’s actually funny to see them talking sometimes
Okay… if you share about your own childhood and your own experience, that might have some weight and she might consider it. Also, you can say that nowadays children spend too much time on the internet, and it’s not good for their health, so actually nowadays parents should encourage their children to go play outside and not try to keep them indoors.
This occurred to me because I’ve recently seen a cartoon about old and new trends. One of the illustrations shows the Old trend: mother pulling her son back to the house because he’s been playing too much outside, and New trend: mother pulling her son out of the house, while he is glued to his smart phone 🙂
No. Not really. Because I even told her about my hypothyroidism, and she took it well. And in past there was times when even if I have a headache, she’d get really worried.
But as far as I can remember I didn’t tried to regulate her moods.
Well, if in the past she got worried about you for even as little as headache – that’s a lot of worrying. Remember, what matters is what happened in your childhood – that’s the imprint you’re living with – even if now she’s not worrying that much. What did you do when she’d get worried about your headache, do you remember?
I mean which mother doesn’t worry about her kids? So it’s obvious that she is worried sometimes and yeah in the past I tried to hide things from my mother because I was scared that she’d be worried because I was still just a high school boy going in wilds…
Sure, that amount of worry is understandable, and since you were doing some really wild stuff, it’s sort of obvious why you didn’t want to tell her… But you also mentioned that she was worried when you wanted to learn how to swim, in a swimming pool with an instructor (if I remember well?). That’s a bit of an excessive worry, in my opinion. How old were you then?
So I was thinking about emotional enmeshment, which I suggested as a possibility last time, but based on everything we’ve talked about so far, and how you behave in relationships, I don’t think this is the case with you after all.
Because like in relationship I care too much and even if they’re little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I can’t focus on my things.
You’ve talked about this before – that you get “overprotective” i.e. controlling when you try telling your girlfriend that she should eat healthier, or have better sleeping habits. From what I’ve understood, you don’t just tell her “you should get more sleep, staying late is bad for your health”, and then sort of let it go, but you turn into this drill sergeant who is pushing her to eat healthier, sleep healthier, etc. That’s the same drill sergeant who sometimes turns on you (in the form of the inner critic), and sometimes on the people close to you (in the form of the outer critic).
So it seems to me that the “care” you show towards your partner has this overlay of criticism. And so you turn into this overprotective, critical father, who is watching his “daughter’s” every step, trying to “improve” her. You get so focused on her and her problems, that it consumes you completely and you can’t focus on your own life.
I think this type of dynamic is not emotional enmeshment, but more like that you’re focusing too much on her and her “wellbeing” (but in a bad sense, like an overbearing parent), and then you’re frustrated when she doesn’t want to take your advice. This then is frustrating to you and you rather give up, i.e. leave the relationship.
What do you think? Does this sound plausible?
Oh and kind of a funny thing happened on valentine’s day. One of my friend’s doctor proposed me… It was really bold move for her.
Yes, it was! But you know you don’t need to accept her marriage proposal, right? 🙂
But to be honest I’m not putting up any high expectations. Go on a date, get to know her a little bit and then maybe something…
Exactly! No rush… If she wants to rush things, please know that you have the right to say No. Even if she doesn’t like that…
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