Hi Murtaza,

you talk about loving your inner child your own way:

I already did that, but the hole is still here, and i don’t believe that there is only one way to love yourself, i do it my way, the way i see it fit, not whatever you say, not whatever anyone say

And i would suppose that there is only one way to be a parent to this child, and its a man made way, i don’t care how many people got healed by this way, i already did best for myselfI

you gonna teach me how to love myself? I can’t continue this conversation if you didn’t drop the idea that i don’t love myself, it just makes me mad how you blame me while you don’t even know me, i can’t do this again,

What you did is protect yourself from pain, the way you thought was best. Prior to that, you suffered tremendously (“You don’t know how i lived needing love everyday excessively, so excessively that i wanted to remove this need from the origin“), having a deep longing which no one could meet, and you decided to suppress that longing because that was the only tool you had at your disposal. Your 18-year old self did his best to protect himself from pain – you decided love is an impossibility for you, never accessible, never attainable. With this, you may have suppressed the little boy Murtaza, but you helped the 18-year old to make sense of things, to maintain his sanity. You did well, considering the circumstances.

You’re angry at me for not acknowledging your love for your inner child. I want to acknowledge the role your Protector played in protecting the 18-year old (and the 20-year old) Murtaza from excessive pain. And you’ve managed, to a point. But this very thread shows that you’re miserable. And that’s because you have suppressed that little boy. I am not blaming you, I am just saying what has happened.

In a recent post, you were interested in the true self. The true self is the observer, which observes all of your parts: (1) the little boy Murtaza with his longings and unmet needs, (2) the Protector who came up with the philosophy of why love is unattainable for you, and (3) the 20-year old Murtaza who is apathetic most of the times because he trusts the Protector’s view of the world. The true self would be beyond all those parts, looking at them without judgment, but with compassion and understanding.

its sad though, that every person i talk to either kill me with his wrong advises and suggestions, or just go away,

If you could, at least for a moment, step away from the idea that love is unattainable for you, and that you need to be at the mercy of other people to get love – and give me the benefit of the doubt – this conversation may make sense.

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Tee.
• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Tee.

Dear Richard,

what sticks out to me reading your posts is that you mentioned your father several times, both in your previous thread and now, but you haven’t mentioned your mother. May I ask what’s your relationship with your mother? Is she still alive?

Hi Murtaza,

Following that logic then my mother deserve better, and my father deserves better, almost everyone deserves better,

Yes, every child who was mistreated deserves better. A child deserves, i.e. should be given proper love and nurturance, in order to develop properly, both physically and emotionally. In order for a healthy development to happen, what is needed is the so-called secure attachment with the primary caregiver (usually mother), where the child feels safe and is able to have all its core emotional needs met.

If your mother didn’t understand a child’s needs (“Nope, she doesn’t understand the child needs for such things“), she couldn’t provide secure attachment for you, and you couldn’t develop in healthy way, emotionally.

just makes you have an idea that you inheritly deserve something without any effort, i don’t think that’s a nice idea to have, not true either, love is something you buy, and im not talking about money, im talking about prices we must pay to get love

If we have a loving parent, a parent who knows how to meet our needs, we won’t feel like we have to pay anything or do anything to deserve the parent’s love. A good parent gives selflessly, of course within certain boundaries, but they never require the child to suppress themselves or to suffer in exchange for love. For example, they would never give the message to a child that “I love you only if you don’t bother me with your problems”. Instead, they would say “I love you regardless of what trouble you may get into. I will never reject you. Come to me whenever you need me and we’ll figure something out.” With a loving  parent, a child isn’t terrified of being judged and condemned, but feels heard and understood.

Many children feel and experience that their parent’s love is conditional and that they need to pay a certain price to be loved. They need to become someone they are not (e.g. you may have needed to pretend that you’re tough and resilient when in fact you were afraid and anxious. Or you may have needed to pretend that you don’t need anything, when in fact you needed your mother’s care and soothing.) You grew up with the belief (and experience) that you need to deserve love, and probably deserve it in a way which negates who you are, which denies the core of your being. You didn’t want that, and so you refused the whole idea of wanting love.

But its my fault that i developed a strong apathy ? … i developed apathy just to protect me, a strong apathy, and im proud of myself for doing so

No, it’s not your fault that you developed apathy. You developed it to protect you from false hope, from the pain of not receiving love. As a child and youth, it was a smart move because it protected you somewhat from heartbreak. But you also don’t like your life and feel you live like an animal, because if we suppress the longing of your heart, then that’s what we all end up being – animals, or robots/automatons. Such life doesn’t make sense indeed.

What I am telling you is that you don’t need to suppress the longing of your heart. You don’t need to pay the price to be loved. You can start loving that anxious, fearful, lonely boy right now. You can give him unconditional love, which your mother and father weren’t able to. You can tell him it’s okay to be needy, to be afraid of the dark, to need comfort and soothing when he’s afraid, to need protection when he’s harassed… Do you think you could get in touch with the little boy Murtaza and give him some love and care?

Hi Murtaza,

I am on holidays starting today, and won’t be spending too much time at the computer. But I am glad you showed a little bit of interest in healing, although don’t worry, I am not holding my breath 🙂 i.e. I have no expectations from you to go for it, to start unpacking your childhood or anything like that. I am pretty tired at the moment and not very focused, but I didn’t want to wait an entire day without replying.

Since you offered your help, and you asked about my childhood, what exactly this help gonna be? and what exactly do you want me to talk about?

Well, you can tell me a little about your childhood. How you felt, when were you happy, when were you sad or scared or embarrassed, how you felt around your parents (e.g. were they supportive or criticizing/punishing), etc etc. Whatever comes to mind that sort of stuck in your memory, either in a positive or a negative sense.

I don’t want to give you advice but to help you understand things better, e.g. understand what emotional needs you haven’t had met, which then caused problems later in your life.

I kinda like you teak, i miss this kind of people, the funny thing is, i lost them before i even have them, how fast did that happen, maybe there is an afterlife afterall, a community of kind people, a job that’s isn’t a waste of time, a reduced fear and anxiety, a partner, a different mindset, that would be heaven, too unreal, this motivates me to do it,

OK, notice there’s a part of you, even if it’s a very slight small voice, which believes that maybe, just maybe, there are valuable things in life, and you could have them too. Just notice it. Try not to dismiss it immediately, even if it’s “too unreal”. I know you said you don’t want any advice, but this is a little bit of coaching, if you’re open to it.

but i develope more apathy along the way when i don’t, im in this hole deeper and deeper, its too late now to fix, and we should close the whole hole

And there’s the other part of you, who is apathetic, says there is no point, says it’s too late now to fix. It wants to give up. It has already given up.

So there’s a small tiny hopeful part, almost unnoticeable, almost completely silent, very weak, and a big and strong hopeless part, which always wins the argument.

If you could just notice those two parts – without judgment, without wanting to get rid of either of them. Just be aware of them, know that they are there. Tell me how this sounds to you, and if you’ve managed to notice those two parts inside of you?

Hi Murtaza,

True self exists – because I’ve experienced it.

Lol, and im the one who dismiss science based on my preference

🙂 Okay, a better way to put it would be: true self exists – and I’ve experienced it (and not just me, but numerous other people).

I wonder where does this come from? God? Destiny?

Yes, our divine essence… btw I believe in God as love, not limited to any scripture…

its all about “pure” love, where does this love come from? You think someone would love you purely?

Here’s an example of pure, selfless love: you love a girl but she doesn’t love you back. You’re sad and all that, but you love her so much that you want her to be happy, you want what’s best for her, even if it’s not that she’d be with you. So you love her and let her go…

people only love because its benefits them,

In the above example, no, it doesn’t benefit the person directly, but still, it’s love…

Hi Dee,

it’s not anita, it’s TeaK 🙂

It may very well be that being shamed about your body could have caused your ED. It seems that in a way, food was a forbidden pleasure for you, and you craved it. For me, food was almost the only allowed pleasure – my mother believed that I am not eating enough and should eat more, and once even force fed me because she was worried I was not getting enough nutrients. She cared a lot about feeding me properly (she would even get up early in the morning to cook a healthy meal for me before going to work), but didn’t care about feeding and nurturing me emotionally….

How was your mother with supporting you emotionally, having compassion and understanding for you, not judging you? Was she among those who criticized you for your body weight?

Dear Felix,

But why do you think she’s provoking jealousy in me? Like i didnt text her anything besides birthday wish and she provokes me like that… I didnt do anything wrong.

I don’t think she’s doing that to provoke you, I doubt it’s a targeted behavior against you. It’s just that her behavior is causing a reaction in you. But it’s not her fault, since she’s not your girlfriend and she hasn’t obliged to be loyal to you, or anything like that. Still, since her behavior disturbs you, it’s better not to be subscribed to her posts.

As for birthday wishes, I don’t know. If her birthday is earlier than yours, you may want to wait and see if she congratulates you, and if she does, you can wish her happy birthday too. But do that only if you don’t have any expectations from her. Also, if she congratulates you, don’t start thinking that she wants to be with you. It may only be that she considers you an old friend, and out of politeness and because it was a custom for many years, she keeps the custom – but nothing more than that.

Tbh i cant understand girls anymore after i saw her change like that… like i used to be with her for 5 years and never expect someone modest to become that coquettish. Also do u think if someone has become coquettish like that, do u think it’ll only become more coquettish through time?

She was only 14 when you met her, practically a child still. She’s grown since, and no wonder she’s changing. Perhaps this seeking attention is only a phase too. I don’t know if she will remain like that, and if that’s her way of boosting her self-esteem, but what’s sure is that she’s still very young and she might change further as she gets older. It’s too early to tell.

What’s certain is that there’s no point in expecting anything from her, and also torturing yourself with what she does or doesn’t post on social media. Instead, focus on yourself, on accomplishing things, exercising etc. This will slowly but surely help you build your self-esteem and make you feel better about yourself, and will reduce your anxiety about her too.

Dear Murtaza,

you mentioned me in two of your recent posts, and considering the developments here, I feel like saying something.

I may sound arrogant, and rude sometimes, but i was never dishonest, that was a claim based on the image you bulild, pure projecting, a proof of my honesty is my replies to both peter and teak, by calling me those things, you made me re consider myself, (im i really that bad? Am i really dishonest? How?)

My impression is that you were rude and arrogant with me, but I ascribed it to a part of you, not the entirety of who you are. The rude and arrogant part is the protective part, who is there to protect you from pain. I’ve already explained it in my earlier posts. In one brief moment you showed an openness to learn more about healing (on page 8):

If you’d like to know some more, I’d be happy to answer.

yes more, without the need of therapy nor people, just me and as clear as you can be (meaning when you say accept anxiety, i want you to tell me what exactly do i say and do)

But very soon you abandoned the idea, saying you don’t have money for online therapy (and that there are no adequate therapists in Iraq – which I believe, specially since you had a bad experience with therapy in the past). When I mentioned quality online resources for free, e.g. videos of world-known expert in healing of trauma and addiction (dr. Gabor Mate), you stopped responding.

I also offered my help (which is of limited capacity, but still) here on the forum – if you were willing to share a bit more about your childhood. You never took the chance. All this told me that you’re not really interested in helping yourself get out of your present state. Basically, it means your protective part is very strong and you’re almost completely identified with it, and so the smidge of interest you’ve shown in therapy and healing was immediately squashed by it. I accepted it and indeed, silently withdrew.

What I can say however, is that I didn’t see you as manipulative or dishonest. You were the same all the time, rejecting all arguments, insisting you cannot or don’t want to change etc etc. You didn’t try to manipulate people on the forum, except that now, towards the end you said to anita that you might consider her argument if she gives you a good one. Which is not really true because there is no argument that can convince you to change your mind – to consider changing it one iota – at least for now.

The proof for that is that sometimes, when it suits you, you use science as a proof that you’re right, and in the very next breath you say you don’t trust science. That’s how you can dismiss any argument you don’t like, and fill up all potential “cracks” where you could be reached. The end result: your fortress is super strong and guarded from all sides.

So perhaps at the very end you were a little manipulative with anita, when you told her that if she presents a strong enough argument, you might consider it and even change – even though you knew there was nothing she could say to change your mind. But in general, taking the entire thread into consideration, I haven’t experienced you as manipulative or dishonest.

You did respond with nice words to anita, but I don’t think it was to manipulate her, but because she treated you kindly too. She expressed her love and appreciation for you, she said she doesn’t quite understand why she feels like she does, but she felt love for you.

You haven’t changed much throughout the course of the conversation, on page 11 you still claimed:

Here i am, no feelings, no desires, no goals, only consuming, like an animal, at least an animal doesn’t have awareness, the drugs has made me even more apathetic, more numb, i kinda like it, this is why i laugh at everything that happens to me, because its all just a big joke, all of this

But anita seems to have been hopeful that her love and affection might change you:

I don’t have any other answer that you will be open to consider: ever since you first posted last summer, your intention was never to consider my thoughts and suggestions (or anyone else’s). Never has it been your intention to be open to change your thinking (or to change other people’s thinking). Your intention with me was to get a bit of attention and affection. You manage to receive it, but my attention, affection and love really make no difference in your life, not practically, and not in any way that will make you less interested in dying.

You didn’t give her the reason to hope that you would change, but she still did hope, and then got disappointed. In my opinion, you haven’t mislead her or fool her – you were yourself all the way. Still unreachable, impenetrable, but true to your Protector. So I don’t see you as manipulative or dishonest.

Having said that, I am sorry you’re unreachable at the moment. I do sincerely hope that this will change for you, and that you will have the chance to live from your true self, which is imprisoned within the walls of that fortress.

• This reply was modified 4 years ago by Tee.