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Thomas168ParticipantThat is fantastic to find peace within oneself while doing tasks that usually bores one. I personally like routines. Wake up in the morning and make my wife breakfast. When my kid wakes up then make her breakfast. She never knows what she wants but it is usually not what I make her. So sometimes I have two breakfasts and she doesn’t want to eat. Then feed the chickens. Don’t know how they stand the cold. I bring feed and a new tub of water. The water is frozen overnight. Sometimes the chickens will eat my kids breakfast so I don’t have to. They love oatmeal.
Sorry off topic again. My mind drifts which makes the meditation a bit of a work out. A friend calls that creeping vines. But, I am told to just sit and watch the thoughts like cars going past my porch. Patience to just sit and not think and be aware. Don’t know why that is easy but to listen to another person talk on and on makes me itchy pants. Guess, got to develop some interest in it first. Maybe that is the key to living a good life? Having enough interest in it to live it well??
Thomas168ParticipantMore than 49 minutes on patience as opening instead of enduring. Lost me in the first few minutes. Will try again when I might be more receptive. 49 minutes, … of that soft monotone voice.
Thomas168ParticipantAlessa said, “And yes, I have been worrying about the future with my child. He will start to make his own way in the world and I won’t be able to protect him. He will go through suffering. As a parent, this doesn’t sit right with me. I am used to suffering. I would not want him to suffer. Maybe this comes from a deep seated wish to erase the suffering I experienced as a child. I don’t want him to suffer as I did. I hope that he suffers much less. No child deserves suffering. 🩵”
Yes he will go thru suffering. But life isn’t just suffering. There is joy, hope, happiness, pleasure. Would you try to protect him from him from life? I understand the need and the feeling to want to help your child. And if the child had to suffer that you would gladly take on that suffering if it would help him. If something bad happened then you would blame yourself. I know what it means to have a child and to want to prevent their suffering. Life happens. And we can only just do the best we can with what we have. Life brings its own lessons to be learned whether it is thru happiness or suffering. You can only be there when he calls and help him when you see you can. And there will be times when … Sorry, lost track of what I was saying. I just had a Senior moment. Where was I ? Never mind. Maybe I should erase this? Ah fudge. Sorry.
Thomas168ParticipantHi Alessa,
Practice Zen Buddhism?? I don’t believe I practice Zen Buddhism. I don’t go to the church or temple or gatherings of Zen Buddhist. I have an interest and read much about it. I do sit in meditation everyday. And, I have encountered many who do follow Zen Buddhism or something about Buddha or Tao (not really sure what that is). Some believe in God and some do not. The thing I found about Zen Buddhism is that one doesn’t have to follow or believe. Can try to find the truth for oneself.
Sorry, I do not have much wisdom to share. Anything I have said can be found in books about Zen Buddhism. I especially love stories that present teachings. Like the story of the two monk who came upon a woman trying to cross a small stream. The first monk picked her up and carried her over to the other side. Put her down and bowed. Later the second monk tried to remind the first monk that they were not suppose to touch women. The first monk says he put the woman down, back at the small stream and asked why does the second monk still carries her. I won’t give out the lesson to be learned as the journey to the answer is just as important as the answer.
I am sorry if my push pull against James has upset anyone. It was not my intent. I did want to rattle the cage and see what comes out. Holding it to the light, the picture comes out. I have my opinion of him. And will do my best to stay out of his threads. This forum doesn’t have an enlightened teacher. So James playing the wise man, well I guess it is what it is. It might help some. For me, I think I would like to dance to a different tune. Just being different or is it difficult??
Roberta said, “Anyway wishing you & your green fingered wife goodnight”
Thank you and good nite. I hope only my wife’s thumb is green. LOL.
Thomas168ParticipantThanks for the greeting. Doubting Thomas, … struck a chord. You sound like you have a life well lived, living. Skeletons? Didn’t Jesus say who has not sinned can throw the first stone? Never knew why Jesus didn’t throw the first stone? Was he a sinner too? Sorry, off topic. My mind tends to drift. So, living a good life. Everyday enough to eat. Family and friends to talk to.
Family, that is great. It is one of the things in life that I truly appreciate. Oh, how relationships change with time? First care taker then teacher and guardian. Later distant relative. Then dependent on those once taken care of. Lucky for me, I can still take care of myself for now.
I try not to think about killing germs or bacteria. As I do prefer to eat rather than be eaten. That is why Cancer scares me. It has taken a relative and an old friend. Hmmm, back to something less morbid please. Do you garden? My wife loves it. Food for the summer months. Friends who also garden. Sharing seeds. Ideas. In the summer mornings she stands at the window and looks out at her garden. There is a sense of peace there in her.
Well, it has been nice talking with you.
Thomas168ParticipantHey Alesa,
What is complete realised truth? Good question.
Having a realization or a Kensho experience doesn’t make one enlightened.
It is more like what some call “stream entry”. It is a glimpse of what is possible.
So a person can go thru all the lessons and have such an experience.
It doesn’t mean the transition is complete.
It is only a beginning. It takes much more practice to learn the whole truth.
Much like shining a flashlight into a very dark hole.
One sees spots and conditions which are available to one at the moment.
But, it isn’t the complete picture.In some Buddhist traditions, it may take a few lifetimes to gain enlightenment.
In Zen, one is already enlightened. It only takes one to realize this truth.
So enlightenment is possible in this lifetime.
If you have a good teacher then the teacher would know how to point out what in your practice is right.
Point you closer and closer to reaching the enlightened mind. To realize emptiness, stillness.
One sees the truth that all things are empty. Form is empty. The practice deepens and brings insight with it.
One sees the reality as it is and not deluded by our mind and thoughts.
The only measure of realizing the truth of our nature is the awakened mind.I don’t worry about reaching for something I have no need for. It holds no value for me.
I can not share it. I can not trade it. If asked then I can not even show it.
So the truth is,…
Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.
After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.Oh, I am sorry if I sound like a broken record.
I also do not want to sound like I am preaching.
I have no wise words to spread.
It use to be “Yes, But”. Now, it is “Don’t know”
Thomas168ParticipantHello Roberta,
Thanks for the post. That is quite an introduction. Am pleased to meet you.
Long ago red hair and outburst of fiery temper? I wish I met you long ago. Now old and grey? I wish to meet you now.
Long ago I had hair and now I am bald (mostly and shave the rest).Quick, judge me and tell me what you think. Am I a silly fart with no sense. Do I make trouble wherever I go? Do I judge others too harshly? Does my ego prevent me from learning from others? Okay, never mind I don’t want to know. You can be so mean … lol.
Can I be your friend who helps you see different perspectives? Maybe?
Yes, peace on earth and good will to all men. A lovely saying.
Thomas168ParticipantSchool, the job, all of it doesn’t teach us how to deal with death in any form. But anything born must die. And when thrown into life’s situations, it is often the feeling of being incapable to help to change anything for the better which hurts us the most. No one is alone in this but it feels like there is no one else there.
Emotions like empathy and compassion aren’t controlled. They arise and are felt at the deepest levels. Sometimes they produce confusion. Other times, nothing but heartache. But, that is life. I have no words to make it easier to take. It is a struggle. Hope you find a way to move forward. Wishing you the best.
Sometimes it is clinging to things the way it should be that causes suffering. And sometimes emotions should be felt. It helps one understand life. Not that suffering is a good thing. But, there are all kinds of suffering. Some make us better and some bring us down. I am guessing it depends upon the person to choose which way to go??
Thomas168ParticipantIt has been quite a while since Laven has posted anything. I hope she didn’t get the wrong message from. If you need to write all these things out then do so. It is important to you then please do so. Whatever you feel needs to be let out then please let it out. My wish is that you can move forward from such things. To be able to relinquish all the pain and suffering so you can have a happier life.
Thomas168ParticipantAnita said, “The clinging itself is a source of suffering..?”
Life happens and all things will change over time.
When the first thing to change happens and we feel injured, that is life or the first arrow.
When we hold onto the feelings and thoughts about the injury then that is like a second arrow.
The second arrow is more suffering. Not all of the suffering.
So, trying not to cling to something. Do we just say it and it happens?
Do we will it and it happens?
To me, if it does happen then it has come about thru practice and effort.
Although final release comes from letting go.
I wish you a good nights rest.
When you figure out how to let something go after 4 years then please let me know.
I have held onto something for the past 45 years that I have tried to free myself from.
Thanks in advance.
Thomas168ParticipantHello Alessa,
It isn’t that there is nothing new in James posts or threads. After all, it is what it is. But, I feel his words lacks the feel of the real truth. Yes, he thinks I judge and criticize and compare. I do. I think everyone does to some degree. But, I am also on a spiritual journey of my own. I have met real teachers who present the most profound insights and teachings that it has to come from an inner source. James believes that no one can help me. Well if that is true then please let it be the last message he sends me. His rhetoric, although there isn’t anything that is not true, doesn’t seem to come from a completed realized truth. I don’t know. Maybe he is the next prophet but not for me. I get the terrible feelings that he has experienced something but has not completed enough training to be preaching. Yeah, that is my prejudice.
Someone said to me that I needed to control my physical desires and my emotional feelings and my thoughts as a prelude to becoming enlightened. I could only respond by saying that enlightenment is not for me if those are the requirements. Cause I have no physical control. When I am hungry, I eat. When I am tired, I sleep. Cause I have no control over my emotions. When I see my wife, I feel love there and a sense of peace. When I see someone getting hurt, my empathy or compassion comes out. My thoughts runs rampart and I have no way to control its intentions. So, yeah, there is no “one” who can help me.
I don’t preach. I am not like James. I have no wise words to pass on. Only what I have seen and think to be true. If that has ruffled a few feathers then I apologize for being the wind in the sandstorm. Sorry for all the misery I have caused.
Thomas168ParticipantAnita,
I am sorry for your current condition of depression. Is there anything that you need? I am not fighting with James. But, I have aversions to people who profess wisdom like the way he does. Nothing he says isn’t true but it also isn’t something I have already seen before. To me there doesn’t seem to have any underlying truth coming from James. So, I push and pull. I put up a mirror to what he does. He tells me that I lie to myself or believe in lies. So, I said the same thing back to him to see his response. He goes back to his high and mighty position and keeps preaching. I do not want to continue. So,I will open my mind to learn. But, he hasn’t brought anything I haven’t encountered before. Hands in the air. I surrender. Hope that relieves any tension you have.
Thomas
Thomas168ParticipantYes, but mind. Knows all the answers. So when listens to another, it goes yes, but.
It needs to interrupt and bring its truth to the table.
The don’t know mind listens and goes I did not know and learns.
It listens and learns because it is open.When I hear you, I go yes, but.
Sorry, that is my fault.
Then I listen and I learn
My heart is open.
I can learn from any source.
Thomas168ParticipantRest assured that there is no greater suffering than lying or exaggerating your understanding.
Thomas168ParticipantSo, I never claim to be awakened. I don’t preach. I don’t tell people “Enlightenment is simply being where You already are.” While “recognition of our True nature is stillness itself.” may be true, it still misses the mark.
Seekers come in all different flavors. Some are confused. And some are drowning in lost conceptual ideas about how they think it all works. Some might think it is some kind of competition, but there is only one metric – are you awakened or not. Can you see emptiness in all appearances in this moment, always. Rest assured that there is no greater suffering than lying or exaggerating your understanding.
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Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine.