June 29, 2018 at 2:53 pm #214747
Basically although I'm not currently feeling suicidal or as bad as I did a few days ago, I still feel worthless, and have nothing to look forward to and don't know what to do about it. This isn't the same as dealing with the those childish critical thoughts of myself, this feels like my life is pointless.June 29, 2018 at 4:26 pm #214753
I'm really not sure what to do right now do I keep try I trying to connect with people or just accept that I'm going to spend the majority of my life by myself. I feel torn to decideJune 30, 2018 at 3:34 am #214789
You are welcome. Thank you for your appreciation.
“when I begin to feel marginally better is usually when I'll restart my downward spiral”- when we make progress in our healing and feel better as a result, there is something we gained and therefore we fear losing it. We fear losing that good feeling. We are, sort of safer not having anything to lose. It takes courage to gain anything, to not give in to the fear of losing it.
Your initiative regarding therapy, friends, the training plan for the bike racing season, meditating all read good to me.
In regard to your concern that you can't help others as a therapist if your life is a mess, I think that all it takes for you to be an effective therapist is to be engaged yourself in the process of healing, on an ongoing basis. Not to be a healed person, but a healing-in-progress person.
I understand your frustration with the process of healing, the on and off parts of it and the return to the off position again and again and yet again, feeling depressed and worthless.. yet again. So part of you says: healing is not working, I am not feeling better, so better I give up and settle for the way life has been so far.
Problem is as the animals that we are, we can't be okay with pain. We naturally and instinctively try to resolve the pain, somehow, so “just accept that I'm going to spend the majority of my life (miserable)”is not a doable objective.
The reason the process has been so difficult for you, as it has been for me, is because it takes more than what you did so far. It takes more understanding of the minute-by-minute experience of life.
For example, you feel better, then you feel worse. I just learned, through this very communication with you, that it happened to me last evening and this morning, after making much progress in my healing process, I started having doubts/ feeling scared that I was going back in my healing, that my progress wasn't real or reliable. This is a trap of sorts, one that keeps a person stuck. If you are considering this very thing I suggested here, if it is true to you, then you have more understanding. And as you make progress, aware of the very fear of losing that progress, you are more equipped to not be trapped by that fear, to calm yourself and keep going.
anitaJuly 8, 2018 at 8:22 pm #215925
You're response about fear of losing something and settling in a familiar place of safety instead is very true for me. I am notorious for backing out of commitments and not taking social risks. Although, i have made much progress over the years in confronting fears socially, physically, and in my mind. I am understanding what you mean when you say healing “takes more than what you did so far” i forget this often. As long as i'm alive I will be learning about myself and meaning through the trials of life.
I'm glad to report i had a good week last week, i was able to see my therapist, which lead to very productive sessions with my own clients later in the same day. I was able to see quite a few friends and family over the holiday weekend. Although my life is no where near stable, i don't feel so down on myself anymore, or rather im better equipped to empathize with myself and have recognized the worth and importance of my individual existence to the world.
I go through periods where life feels more or less meaningful. The ups and downs frustrate me and i struggle to accept that anytime i am having a good feeling that it will pass, because as we've talked about the pain feels like it will never end every time. I feel comfortable in pain. It's my way of saying to life “i told you so! see no matter what i do nothing will ever sustain my happiness, so might as well not try and stay in this place.” Which is untrue. Yet I lack the courage at times to take risks, and the courage to endure the pain, i self medicate instead.
My current frustration with myself continues to be associated with sexual desire, and desire for companionship. I don't necessarily fantasize about sex when i speak of desire rather an extremely deep craving to be held. it makes my breathing heavy just thinking about receiving a hug and how amazing it might feel. I rarely have sex dreams, most of my dreams and fantasies about women have to do with companionship and love. I have officially given up on all forms of social media and dating apps after being stood up 3 seperate times this week by different people. It makes me question why do i even want companionship? i mean what would a girlfriend actually do for me? also Why is the urge to have companionship so strong within me? in alot of ways it seems like it would only end up being another thing to worry about going wrong in my life. However i really need a solution for this daily constant pain. Im not sure i can convey just how heavy and pervasive this feeling is for me, its the heaviest feeling i have and the one that follows me everywhere, the same feeling that makes me feel like i could potentially have a break down at any time.
I was at a coffee shop studying today and i see couples everywhere it seems, enjoying eachothers company, and my eyes begin to water my breathing gets heavy and i have to leave the shop immediately before i just start crying. I ask myself what is this feeling about, sure there's some envy in there however i always try to be happy for people who appear to be happily coupled, i realize envy makes me bitter. I sat in my car before driving off crying wondering what it is that bothers me so much about seeing couples, thinking about dating, etc. I reached the conclusion that i look at what others have and believe im undeserving of such things, that i may deserve to be loved but not intimately loved such as they appear to be. This feeling is by far the hardest one to accept and as i write this it is evident to me i still feel unlovable. I'm still unsure about how to go about working on feeling lovable. It also is becoming evident that i try too hard to make myself seem more lovable, I take good care of my physical appearance, i dress well, i make every attempt to take care of others when possible, i have many creative pursuits, my apartment is spotless, i study psychology and other sciences in an effort to understand why i struggle to connect with others. I try very hard at life, i'm very talented and knowledgeable in a multitude of skills and always have been, in alot of ways i behave as if i pretend to love myself hoping someone will love me even though i might really feel worthless.July 9, 2018 at 3:17 am #215937
Emotionally, as adults, we keep experiencing the same experience we did as children. You feel as lonely now as you did as a child, same experience reactivated. Same experience take away the sexual need of the growing boy/ man that you became. First thing you mentioned about your childhood in your March 2017 thread was: “Growing up my mom was very depressed and my dad had anger issues, one of my strongest memories of childhood was my dad telling me and my sister that it was ‘our job to keep our mother happy”-
well, who kept noname happy?
No one. Noname was unloved, not attended to with love by his mother or his father. There is hurt in that and anger. This hurt and anger must be activated when you are in a relationship. The loneliness of not being in a relationship is an activation of the childhood experience.
What is your current relationship with your mother and what are your feelings for and about her?
anitaJuly 9, 2018 at 10:07 am #216001
Like i said earlier in this thread i still talk with my mom and really have nothing but empathy towards her anymore. I don't go to her or my father for emotional support nor do i expect it. When i do see my mom a couple times a month its usually all about her problems, because she is going through alot right now. She does love me and tries to care for me emotionally, however she or my father dont really know how to truly care for their own emotions, so i don't really get much out of her attempts except gratitude that she's willing to try.
Essentially my relationship with my mother and father have always been lacking. I was a little angry about not always being cared for by my parents, but at this point its in the past, and im just trying to move on and i expect nothing from either of them at all. I'm on my own as I've always been.
I really don't know if laboring over my damaged parental relationships is helping me anymore. I mean yes i'm aware my childhood was traumatizing and lacking in many areas, yes i'm aware how this has shaped my personality and continues to be pervasive. however im trying to be a man now and take responsibility for my own healing.
I suppose what im really looking for is what to do about these god awful aches and pains of lonliness. I doubt i will ever be in another romantic relationship the way things are going, so if you have any wisdom on dealing with the undeniable loneliness of life that would be helpfulJuly 10, 2018 at 2:56 am #216077
Yes, you shared before about your experience with your mother and father, as a child and as an adult. And you don't want to do that anymore, don't want to go there. I can hear it loud and clear in your recent post. It is not helpful, you believe.
I disagree. I believe it will be helpful to revisit it all, but differently than before. This may very well not be the time or the place to do so.
“these god awful aches and pains of loneliness” are, like I wrote to you yesterday, the repeating, ongoing reactivation of your childhood experience. You wrote that you “have nothing but empathy towards her (your mother) anymore”- not true, underneath you are still angry and that anger is likely to show up when in a beginning relationship with any woman, that same anger activated.
“She loves me”, you wrote, and I say: I don't think that you believe that, underneath the pretty way you present it now, “gratitude that she is willing to try”- this is the pretty way you tie it all together, with a ribbon-like, and you want to put it away like this.
I will not initiate mentioning your childhood/ relationships with parents again because you don't want to go there.
You asked for wisdom regarding dealing with the loneliness. My advice regarding the next woman to enter your personal life is: be cautious, interview the woman first, in a series of conversations, over coffee maybe, have those talking dates first. In those dates ask questions. See to it that she is indeed not involved with another man at the time, that she is not hooking up with anyone, not an ex, not anyone. See to it that she doesn't live a lifestyle that doesn't sit well with you. See to it that her values and motivations don't contradict yours.
My point is, being inclined, as I believe you are, and understandably so, to get hurt and angry in a beginning relationship, see to it that there is a minimum of igniting material, so to speak, to ignite the hurt and anger. If she passes the series of interviews, proceed cautiously. Watch your interpretations of what she says and does, check to see if you interpret correctly. Share within reason, let her know you in small portions.
anitaJuly 12, 2018 at 12:17 pm #216445
Thank you for your response. I guess i'm just tired of talking about my childhood because it makes me feel guilty to criticize my parents in the slightest because i know they came from nothing and tried the best they could. however i am also aware of how my mom unconsciously guilts me anytime i point out that our household was dysfunctional by playing a victim and pulling on my heart strings to get me to take care of her. The denial is strong with my mother and father. They taught me to sugar coat and tell half truth, and i believe you caught this in “the pretty way you tie it together”. What i really need is for her (and my father) to validate my feelings and be concerned with me, i'm not sure she understands how her being constantly depressed and down on her self affects me or my sister.
As much as i resist admitting it i know the loneliness is reliving my childhood experience. However loneliness is my current living experience as well. Although the past couple of weeks i have been more outgoing and open, i still feel very much alone never knowing when my next meaningful human interaction might be. I need intimacy, and im not talking about physical romantic intimacy while that would be nice its also highly improbable. I find myself feeling the need to talk about work with someone because at times it is very disturbing to hear peoples stories and have to be with them in their pain. I feel i need just a short daily interaction of venting at the least to be able to continue to do this job otherwise i know i WILL burn out. Right now i have no outlet for real human connection or i find if i talk about anything even remotely intimate with friends they will shut down. I see this as a real issue for me, i have more socializing options now than ever however im still feeling profoundly lonely and unsupported with the exception of my sister.
Im at a point where i cant imagine anyone would ever really want to be close to me for any reason other than to use me. This makes me very depressed to even look at women especially. However there is some conceited part of me that i don't like to admit that feels like someone would be fortunate to have me close to them because i think i would make a good friend/partner. I'm very uncomfortable with feeling as if i'm worthy of someones admiration.
My feelings of self worth are very much contradictory. I really need hope right now that it is possible to live a peaceful life with very little intimate connection.July 13, 2018 at 7:11 am #216511
You wrote, “i'm not sure she understands how her being constantly depressed and down on her self affects me”- and so, you are still waiting for her to understand.
You want love in your life. Got to give up any hope and any waiting to receive it from your mother (or your father). As children do, you did and do still feel a lot of empathy for your mother. It is an unrequited love.
I see you as a person trying to beat water (love) out of a rock (your mother), or just sitting there looking at the rock, waiting for the water. All along there is a stream of water over there, a small one, there behind those few trees. How will you ever get to explore and find that stream if you are staying close to the rock…
Way, way less empathy for your mother and more, way more empathy for yourself is what you need. And this, I believe, is the whole truth.
anitaJuly 13, 2018 at 8:49 am #216529
Thanks again for paying me attention. While my upbringing was an issue I seriously am not waiting on my parents, I don't even consider calling them for help. That's why I'm talking to you and not them. I know I'm not getting shit from them, I'm happy to keep talking about them but I know my thirst for love won't be fulfilled by them. I have no hope they will ever be able to help me. They can't help themselves. I hope this is clear.
However I still need help with this empathy for myself I guess, as it seems I'm the only person who wants to love me, but still don't know how. I'm also beginning to sense you might be tired of responding to me because I'm essentially just complaining at this point that I'm not loved.
With all that being said I still need help, i couldn't sleep last night, like many night because I still long for someone to be emotionally and physically close to. I started freaking out so I went outside and sat in my car for a while and smoked. I missed my class this morning because I was too tired for one, but also too embarrassed to show up without my presentation completed. I have so many responsibilities right now and I'm very overwhelmed but I can't slow down I have less than a year to graduate.
It's hard for me to empathize with myself right now for not completing my work. I wasted my off day yesterday I went to a coffee shop to do work but I continue to be distracted by other people and fantasize about how it my feel to be loved as they appear to be. This happens pretty much any time I'm in public and I get so overwhelmed with emotion I have to leave every time before I have another break down. I'm very afraid right now my feelings are going to keep me from finishing my degree. I'm not sure how I can empathize with myself for mot doing my work.
I feel so worthless, and in a way i feel like i keep posting here hoping you might validate my worth as a person by telling me good things about myself but I know thats my job. I just can't do it myself.July 13, 2018 at 9:24 am #216541
I am not tired of responding to you, not at all. Regarding your hope that I validate your worth as a person by telling you good things about yourself- I would love to do that and I would if it wasn't as ineffective as I believe it is. I don't do it not because it is not my job (“I know that's my job”, you wrote), but because it is not possible for me to accomplish.
You wrote that it is your job, not completely true. You will need another person's help. Can't do it without. It was your parents' job and they failed you. And now it is within a healing relationship with another person that you can believe a different message, that you are worthy and lovable.
Our communication here is not enough to be that healing relationship that you need. I will try and make my point by telling you what I think about your worth, based on my beliefs and my communication with you. I believe that you are very worthy and very lovable. I am sure of it. You were born worthy and lovable and gladly, for me, you didn't become so far a person who is no longer worthy or lovable. You didn't give up, you didn't lose empathy for others. You are pursuing a helping profession. You are trying really hard. You are a good man. I appreciate not only the worthy, lovable baby and young boy that you were, but the man you are.
Now you tell me what any of this means to you at the moment, will you?
anitaJuly 13, 2018 at 10:05 am #216545
Well it feels good that despite you knowing about all the parts of myself I'm not necesarily proud of you still try to help me, and it seems for some reason you wont give up on me either. That's part of my definition of love, acceptance of someone for all their flaws. It feels really good that I can depend on you to respond within a reasonable amount of time and that you are not put off by some of my responses. It's not hard for me to understand on an intellectual level, I treat my own clients In the same way. I feel an almost maternal connection with you, wishing I had you're type of guidance in the flesh more often. You operate in a similar way to my personal therapist which is why I come here so often because I can only see him a couple times a month. I feel grateful for you and this resource.
I also feel that you are being sincere in you're response based on the assumption that I have been authentic in what I have shared with you, which I believe I have. It just feels really good to know that someone like you even exists in this world. Someone who will cares and sees me compassionately always.
It feels like I have someone on my side, who wants to see me doing better. However despite all of this it's never enough. I feel like I don't want to believe you I'm not sure why anymore, I argue with people who try to help me that I deserve the misery I feel.
One of my classmates/coworkers came to my office just to talk last week. She expressed how difficult school has been, she had a class with me last fall when my life was most chaotic. She said I was quiet and rarely talked even though we sat right next to eachother. I told her I was severely depressed at that time. She stated how she too was depressed since being in school and how no one talks about it. I shared with her my most recent mishap with this girl who had a boyfriend. She tried to empathize with me but I wouldn't let her I told her it was my fault for picking women I think I can help.
I realize how hard I make it for people to help me. I blame myself for every misfortune that happens to me. Yet if someone else told me the same story I wouldn't put the blame on them. It all seems to come back to empathy for myself, I don't have it and It keeps me from letting others help/love me.July 14, 2018 at 6:05 am #216631
Im at a point this morning where i have lost all hope. I did not leave the house yesterday, i didnt get out of bed until 5pm and only ate one meal. Im feeling very hopeless and dont really see the point in trying anymore. I dont even know what to try, or what to do to help myself want to keep living.July 14, 2018 at 6:18 am #216633
I wasn't aware of your post before last until a moment ago. If I was aware of it, I would have replied to it yesterday, shortly after you submitted that post (I was at the computer then). Sometimes a post doesn't reflect under the list of Topics. I suppose that is what happened.
You don't feel empathy for yourself because you believe you don't deserve that. You blame yourself because you believe that you are guilty. You don't believe a guilty person deserves empathy. It is that core belief.
It is depressing to be stuck in a guilty person. I was depressed myself throughout the years that I believed that I was guilty. I was very depressed. I will be glad to share with you about that core belief of mine, that guilty core belief. And I too didn't believe therefore that I was worthy of empathy.
anitaJuly 14, 2018 at 5:32 pm #216701
I am new here and just got the book. I immediately registered to be a part of this group and would like to share with you my experience. I have been dealing with depression for most of my life but it didn't quite hit me until the last couple of years. I am currently seeking help and getting support from friends and loved ones. It is a struggle but all I can do is to take it one day at a time.