Menu

Conflicting myself much

HomeForumsShare Your TruthConflicting myself much

New Reply
Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 93 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #361305
    Neverdyed
    Participant

    P.S. I feel cared (or the like) and not being given up for your latest reply while I didn’t respond yet

    #361306
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Neverdyed:

    You asked me “am I clear here??”- no. I am exhausted trying to understand you. I am done trying. You are welcome to keep posting, and I will be glad to reply to you further, but I am done trying to understand.

    Thank you for wishing me a nice weekend and I wish you the same!

    anita

    • This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by anita.
    #374614
    Neverdyed
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    It’s been quite some time, hope you’re all healthy. I’m finally less busy at the moment, so I want to answer your previous questions:

    * Aggressive, picking up fights with your father and with you (“mother was always the one who forced others to talk during a fight… My mother also picks up fights with me”).

    Yes, though she’s the victim in the marriage as far as I know.

    * Talks way too much, practices no self control regarding what she is saying, and forces people to listen to her lengthy, aggressive talks (“My mother also picks up fights with me by saying whatever is on her mind… My mother expects us to listen to her lengthy stories, when we don’t, she often lashes out and threats”).

    Yes.

    * Harasses people in effort to force them to talk (“when my mother picked up a fight, she was like ‘what now? What have I done now?’… pushes me to talk rather than being silent… my mother was always the one who forced others to talk during a fight”).

    Yes, but I wouldn’t use the word “harass”, however, I’ve noticed that I did that with my brother as a way to communicate now while he’s the silent one.

    These behaviors by your mother traumatized you as a child and teenager. You made a very strong decision long ago, early in your life, to not be like herto be the opposite of her (“my principle of waiting for the other to respond before going further, when there’s no cue (or ‘green light’) for me to go on, even if there’s   more I’d like to share, I can only keep silence… I’ve been avoiding being intrude… hardly asking questions, even those like ‘how’s your family?’. I believe if he wants to share, he’d do it voluntarily.. how do I know if others want to hear from me, instead of risking, I choose to stay silent”).

    Probably yes, but I’m mot sure what’s the opposite of her.

    What happened with this man, is that you asserted yourself with him, telling him that you are not interested in an on and off contact, but in a regular, continuous, dependable contact. It was a fair assertion, one that was very difficult for you to make because it felt .. a bit like being your mother, speaking up for yourself instead of being silent.

    I don’t know if by making my point equates being like my mother, but I do expect a consistent connection.

    When he reacted by telling you that you are not healthy (you boldfaced this word in your sentence yesterday: “He also said that it’s not healthy if I expect him to talk everyday and reply immediately, (which I didnt)”, it troubled you a lot because what you heard him say in your mind, is that you are like your mother, wanting too much contact, being unhealthy. And that’s the last thing you want to hear. Your decision long ago was to be the opposite of her, not to be like her!

    I never related his response to how I see my mother, I only view that as his judgement on my idea.

    #374619
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Neverdyed:

    I read your recent post. You wrote regarding your mother: “I’m not sure what’s the opposite of her”. My comment: your mother has been aggressive. The extreme opposite of aggressive is passive. To have healthy relationships with people, you need to be neither aggressive nor passive, but assertive. Both parties to a relationship need to be assertive. There are books and online resources regarding assertive behavior.

    anita

    #374764
    Neverdyed
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    Thank you again.

    I recalled the following from time to time and thought to bring it up here with you:

    My mother once commented on my father’s behaviour as “treating the home/house like a hotel” when I was a kid. I now see the man doing the same by entering and leaving my life whenever he wanted, but I never said it out. I know it’s not necessary that one repeats his or her parents, however, I think I do occasionally.

    #374765
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Neverdyed:

    You are welcome.  You wrote that you remember as a child hearing your mother say one time that your father was “treating the home/ house like a hotel”.  Her suggestion was that your father was selfish, that he came into the house when he needed a cooked meal, a shower and sleep in a clean bed, using her as his cook, server and maid, and that left the house for everything else that he needed, whenever he wanted.

    Eight months ago, on June 12  2020, you wrote regarding your mother: “I just can’t stand her aggressive attitude during a fight, and I’ve adopted my father’s silent but passive aggressive way”-

    – this means that your childhood home was not like a hotel for your father, because a hotel is a place where the workers (receptionists, cooks, servers, cleaners, etc.)  do not fight with the customers. I suppose your childhood home was not like a hotel for your father after all, was it?

    In regard to the man in your life,  you are suggesting that he may be entering and leaving your life as if you were a hotel, using you for what he needs at the moment. What hotel-like services are you providing him?

    anita

    #374801
    Neverdyed
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    Upon reading your reply, I thought to defend for my mother, but now I feel that maybe my father was stressed after returning home.

    As for myself, I believe what I provided were attention and interesting chats, and to protect myself from being further taken advantage of, I’ve changed my attitude, I still replied but with coldness. And he complained. I suppose it’s obvious that he still disturbs me.

    #374802
    Neverdyed
    Participant

    P.S. I think that my father wasn’t “always” stressed.

    #374811
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Neverdyed:

    “Upon reading your reply, I thought to defend.. my mother”.

    Previously you wrote about your mother: “My mother.. picks up fights with me.. she often lashes out and threats… pushes me to talk rather than being silent”- as he attacker/ the aggressor (the one who picks up fights, lashes out, threatens and pushes),  she does not need to be defended by her victim. You (the victim) need to defend yourself from her.

    “P.S. I think that my father wasn’t ‘always’ stressed”- no one is always stressed. Every stressed person has to be calm at times. A person can not survive being always stressed.

    I suppose living with your mother is a stressful experience for anyone having the misfortune of living with her.

    anita

    #375024
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Neverdyed,

    I’ve only joined the forum recently and was catching up with the very interesting conversation on this thread. From your recent posts, it appears you’re still keeping in touch with your male friend, but now you’re cold with him, and he doesn’t like it. Did I get that right?

    It seems to me that both of you have the avoidant attachment style, meaning that both of you are afraid of intimacy and a deep, honest sharing of yourself. Of vulnerability. Because without vulnerability, there’s no intimacy, and there cannot be a deeper bond between two people.

    I don’t know what his story is and why he’s afraid of intimacy, but clearly, his actions suggest that he doesn’t have serious intentions with you, and that he believes it’s okay to forget about you for days on end and not reply. Even, that daily contact wouldn’t be “healthy”.

    You asked anita if he behaves like this because you’re too much to handle (so he needs to put a boundary to protect himself), or because he doesn’t care. Unfortunately, it’s because he doesn’t care – because you’re not asking too much. On the contrary, you’re hardly asking anything!

    As anita noted, you’re afraid to express your needs, to initiate contact, to even demand things that are rightfully yours, because you’re afraid of rejection. You’re also afraid of being like your mother if you’re too assertive or “demanding”. The result is that often times you stay silent, withdrawn, unexpressed.

    Earlier in the conversation, you said that you mother used to tell you “you have good grades in school, but you need to change your attitude towards people”. What exactly did she mean by that? What attitude towards people did you have?

    It seems that during childhood, you witnessed two unbalanced ways to deal with conflict: one is your father’s, who’d rather leave the house or stay silent throughout the conflict (basically, he escaped conflict, choosing not to express himself). The other is your mother’s, who complained a lot, attacking and blaming your father (for being the victim, for serving your father while he behaves like in a hotel, etc). If I understood well, she was also provoked by his silence, which made her even more furious.

    You decided that you liked your father’s style better, that it’s more mature, while your mother’s is immature and childish. In reality, neither is better or worse, both are unbalanced. Neither attacking and blaming the other, nor escaping confrontation will actually solve the problem. Expressing ourselves and asserting our needs, while at the same time respecting the other and taking into account their needs as well, would be the middle way.

    Anyway, enough for now, I’ve written a lot. Hope this was helpful in some way and that with time, you resolve your conflicts.

    #375072
    Neverdyed
    Participant

    Dear TeaK,

    Thanks for joining, I’ll clarify further below.

    From your recent posts, it appears you’re still keeping in touch with your male friend, but now you’re cold with him, and he doesn’t like it. Did I get that right?

    Yes, you’re right, just the contacts are gone once again, and I’ve decided to not respond anymore if he returns, although I know that I shouldn’t think much about it, I still do.

    It seems to me that both of you have the avoidant attachment style, meaning that both of you are afraid of intimacy and a deep, honest sharing of yourself. Of vulnerability. Because without vulnerability, there’s no intimacy, and there cannot be a deeper bond between two people.

    I checked it before and found that I might have an anxious attachment style or so, haha. I did open up to a degree long time ago, but it’s not appreciated, so to protect myself from being hurt again, I’ve chosen to share far less now.

    I don’t know what his story is and why he’s afraid of intimacy, but clearly, his actions suggest that he doesn’t have serious intentions with you, and that he believes it’s okay to forget about you for days on end and not reply. Even, that daily contact wouldn’t be “healthy”.

    The problem for me his returning pattern/behaviours, to me, it’s like he leaves me behind and have fun then when there’s no one around him, he remembers me. Lately I thought again that without constant contacts, he’s no one or simply a stranger. Also, if he wasn’t putting so much effort in the beginning to contact frequently, I wouldn’t have observed the difference/change and assumed that he’s got other targets. And it’s greedy for me when he has someone else but keeps me there, but of course, I never said it because I don’t want to judge him like what he’s done to me.

    You asked anita if he behaves like this because you’re too much to handle (so he needs to put a boundary to protect himself), or because he doesn’t care. Unfortunately, it’s because he doesn’t care – because you’re not asking too much. On the contrary, you’re hardly asking anything!

    Yes, I don’t want to force an answer, and I don’t want to be seen as “oh, I’m so interested in you”.

    As anita noted, you’re afraid to express your needs, to initiate contact, to even demand things that are rightfully yours, because you’re afraid of rejection. You’re also afraid of being like your mother if you’re too assertive or “demanding”. The result is that often times you stay silent, withdrawn, unexpressed.

    Yes, my pride is still the first thing for me, actually, I recalled the other day that I once told him something like “I care too much about my pride, so even if I want something, I wouldn’t say it”.

    Earlier in the conversation, you said that you mother used to tell you “you have good grades in school, but you need to change your attitude towards people”. What exactly did she mean by that? What attitude towards people did you have?

    I think I might be self-centered in my childhood, and now I still am somewhat so, just when I was with him or another friend, I believe that I usually put their needs first.

    It seems that during childhood, you witnessed two unbalanced ways to deal with conflict: one is your father’s, who’d rather leave the house or stay silent throughout the conflict (basically, he escaped conflict, choosing not to express himself). The other is your mother’s, who complained a lot, attacking and blaming your father (for being the victim, for serving your father while he behaves like in a hotel, etc). If I understood well, she was also provoked by his silence, which made her even more furious.

    Yes, she disliked our silence during a fight/argument.

    #375091
    TeaK
    Participant

    Dear Neverdyed,

    Thanks for your welcome! And for replying and clarifying.

    You say: “I checked it before and found that I might have an anxious attachment style or so, haha. I did open up to a degree long time ago, but it’s not appreciated, so to protect myself from being hurt again, I’ve chosen to share far less now.”

    You’re right, you’re not avoiding closeness. In fact, you would appreciate it, but you’re discouraged by him not welcoming it, so you withdraw into your shell, not sharing much about what’s going on inside of you. You’re kind of pretending that you don’t care, or at least not that much, although you do.

    You did tell him once “I don’t need on and off contacts”, but he didn’t see any problem with that, even claiming it wouldn’t be healthy to talk every day. He also said that if he doesn’t reply for a week or so, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t care. That’s a spin, because in reality, if we care about someone romantically, we want to be in touch frequently. So you did express your need, which is a good thing, but he brushed it off and then you’ve withdrawn. You haven’t expressed your need again, except passively, by being cold and reserved.

    You say you behave like that because of your pride (I don’t want to be seen as “oh, I’m so interested in you”. I recalled the other day that I once told him something like “I care too much about my pride, so even if I want something, I wouldn’t say it”.) Actually I don’t think it’s pride, rather it’s fear of getting hurt and humiliated if you admit how much he means to you. You fear rejection if you express yourself, express your need and make yourself vulnerable. So you say a little bit, you peak out of your shell, and then you go right back since you weren’t welcomed with open arms.

    A part of the reason could be because your mother used to criticize your singing. You showed yourself, i.e. made yourself vulnerable, and she ridiculed it, or something to that effect?

    She also told you were self-centered:

    “I think I might be self-centered in my childhood, and now I still am somewhat so, just when I was with him or another friend, I believe that I usually put their needs first.”

    I don’t know at what age she started telling you that, but a child is naturally self-centered. Children want their needs to be met first, they want their toys, they’re all about “it’s mine, give it to me!” It’s a natural child’s instinct, but if it’s constantly put down and criticized by their parents, the child later won’t be able to express their needs and stand up for themselves.

    You’ve mentioned multiple times that you don’t want to be selfish with your boyfriend, even though what you hoped for from him wasn’t selfish at all. It was normal to expect in a loving relationship. But he told you it was selfish, or unhealthy (you said he judged you when you demanded more contact.) So I think there’s a connection there: he’s judged you as being selfish, similarly to how your mother judged you. And it was simply for expressing your legitimate needs. You’re not selfish at all, you just want what’s rightfully yours.

    when I was with him or another friend, I believe that I usually put their needs first.

    Yes, because you suppress your own needs, even if they are legitimate.

    Think about that. You were never selfish, you were told you’re selfish, which is not true. You have the right to demand certain things for yourself. You have the right to express your needs.

    #375167
    Neverdyed
    Participant

    Dear anita,

    I wanted to defend for my mother because I know she’s probably the only responsible parent for us.

    Maybe your point would be, even though, she shouldn’t have treated me like that?

    #375169
    Neverdyed
    Participant

    Dear TeaK,

    Good to see you responding further, somehow I feel that you’re a man and no offense. I had tears in my eyes when reading your words, because they’re another confirmation of what I think about the situation.

    Hope it wouldn’t be too confusing for you as I’ll continue discussing but in 2 subjects:

    With the man, I hadn’t been so bothered before leaving and I guess I began to express more “negative” opinions later when things went down. I’ve been fully aware that without the formal title, I have no right to ask much, but actually, I still don’t suppose I could demand a lot even if it’s a committed relationship. And yes, I definitely don’t want to be humiliated ever again. The big question for me at the moment is, should I save my energy and simply stay silent or should I “list” my points “in case he pops up once again”?

    With my mother, first of all, thanks for point it out, I didn’t relate the man’s judgement to her criticism! And I forgot when did she commented like that, but I know I’ve stopped being extrovert since high school.

    Now I’ve cut people off from my already tiny circle, as they failed to reciprocate the way I’d valued them, and I hope to meet my like-minded pal(s) eventually.

    #375174
    anita
    Participant

    Dear Neverdyed:

    Yes, my point was (and is)  that your mother shouldn’t have treated you like that: aggressively (“pick up fights with me.. often lashes out and threats”, etc.)

    You were (and perhaps still) her victim. The aggressor does not need protection from the victim; the victim needs protection from the aggressor.

    anita

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 93 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Please log in OR register.