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Do You Have To Examine ALL Beliefs For Truth/When Do You Stop Being Lenient?

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Peter 6 days, 8 hours ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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  • #167912

    Myles
    Participant

    So I’m asking this question because I remembered how deeply homophobic the world still is, and it made me remember that there are parts of the world where I can be legally killed just for being myself. But then I thought about how the beliefs that most of the countries that allow this stuff to happen are very deeply entrenched, and that there’s no way that their minds are going to eb changed just like that. I realise that none of these things are directly affecting me and so it is best not to worry about them, but I would love to visit Africa one day but I’m afraid to because of the legal right people have to, for lack of a better phrase, treat me like shit. Anyway, luckily, I’ve not encountered that much homophobia (I mean there was the situation with my Dad, but it’s not like I was sent to conversion therapy or anything, I’m going to get to my parents in a moment)  since I’ve come out, but there are still a lot of people who would drop everything they’re doing to pray the gay out of their kids or throw them out on the street until their “affliction” is gone, and I feel like I’m going to run into these people eventually. I find it’s very easy to call these people stupid, but if there’s one thing I’ve learned from this site, it’s that you should look at things objectively. However, when someone says something like “gay people are worse than pedophiles” should you really waste time examining stuff like that? I just feel like people who go around saying things like that really don’t have much to offer the world except hatred and dissension.

     

    So a few days ago my moving out plans were halted by a good 4 months because my Dad decided to step in and say he’d prefer if I stay at home until I’m 18 (in 4 months time, I’m also getting £14,000 awarded to me because of negligence on the part of a hospital) and I was only told this when I had gotten home from a supported housing office (I’m not sure what that would be called in America, but I hope you get the gist of what “supported housing” is.) Now, while it is far, FAR easier to get into supported housing when you’re 18, it can be done from the age of 16, but both you and your parents have to give congruent stories. It was actualy my Mum who bought this idea to me, and yet didn’t mention me having to talk about my living situation at some point. This kind of disappointed me because I don’t  feel like I can finally take control of my life until my parents are out of the picture. I’ve still been looking at reasons why I should and shouldn’t keep a relationship with my parents, and I’ve noticed for every good thing that they’ve done (allowing me to do extra curricular activites, my Dad getting me the £14,000 I mentioned earlier, which now makes me feel like I HAVE to keep a relationship with him because of that) the bad things they’ve done often outweigh the good things (my Mum doing absolutely nothing while my Dad said he’d kill me if I ever said I was gay again, happily agreeing with his proposal that I should be put in foster care because he couldn’t deal with having another “disappoinment”, whenever I’d come to them for advice, my Dad would give me some “back in my day, suck it up” explanation or my Mum would sit there and make it about herself by saying “well, do you know what I’ve been through?”, and, I’ve never mentioned this, but my Mum had a near fatal heart attack a few years ago, which means she has to be careful not to get stressed, take certain medications for the rest of her life, yet constantly starts arguments over things that really aren’t that important along with putting herself in situations where she knows she’s going to be stressed, and then blaming other people for it, and while I am FAR from a perfect child, I don’t see why I should take the blame for my Mum making a mountain out of a molehill) and while I’ve made great strides towards becoming a happier person, I don’t feel like I can do anything more until my parents are out of the picture. I’m just so tired of being told that I should “try more with them” or I should “be patient” or that I should continue being around them. When my Dad threatened to kill me that day, that was the straw on the camel’s back (I already had an extremely weak relationship with my Dad, due to years of emotional abuse prior to that, which I cant say has stopped, now he asks me loaded questions and continues insulting me after he has said to stop a conversation, then comes back and says “I am the parent, if I want to continue the conversation that’s up to ME!”) and I really want nothing to do with them at this point. I realise the issues I have with myself aren’t going to go away as soon as I get rid of my parents, but I really don’t feel like I’m in an environment to work through them. But then, there’s my brothers, who, have done absolutely nothing by the way, and their difficulties aren’t their fault at all, I also feel I will be forcing myself to have a relationship with, but I would feel guilty not speaking to them anymore. I guess what I’m asking is, when do you decide to cut contact with people?

    #167944

    Patrick
    Participant

    Dear Myles,

    You cut contact with people when they are no longer serving as a positive influence in your life. Typically, parents are always a source of encouragement, positive energy and wisdom in someone’s life so a lot of people love their parents and keep them in their life till death and beyond. But here, they are very clearly a negative influence and you’ve already talked to them about your issues and desires with little understanding from them, so you should cut contact as soon as legally possible. That is my advice. Others might say a parental relationship is important, but this one is clearly toxic and belittling so it will only serve to hold you back.

    I have faith that no matter what decision you make, you will be strong and make it through.

    #167946

    Myles
    Participant

    I remember writing a letter saying I forgive my Mum for outing me to my Dad, and the last thing I remember her saying was “What do I need to be forgiven for?” and “You are the one causing all the stress!” so it isn’t as if I haven’t tried to be sympathetic. Of course, I was at a point in my life where I had to throw a pity party everytime somethign bad happened to me, but I think that my Mum can’t take all the blame for what happened.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by  Myles.
    #168000

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Myles:

    I would like to let you know that I am (still) impressed by your intelligence, the ease and flow of your writing, your sensible thinking, mature and deep understanding of issues, and you are not eighteen yet!

    As far as your last question: “when do you decide to cut contact with people?”-

    My answer: when the people are abusive/ harmful to you, the time to cut contact is ASAP.

    anita

    #168024

    Myles
    Participant

    Well thank you Anita, people have always said that about me, I think a side effect of my “perceptiveness” though is my penchant for overthinking, or simply doing more thinking than doing because I’m afraid I won’t meet the expectations I’ve set for myself in my head, realistic or not. I just have gotten to the point where I’m finished demonising my parents, I don’t believe they’re despicable human beings, I just feel like they aren’t people I want to be around and I’m tired of being told I should try to because of some aphorism about “family” or “you have to respect your parents” or something like that, my Dad has shoved that idea down all of our throats for as long as I can remember, and it was probably the first thing I began to resent about him, then it was the “my way or the high way” attitude, then it was the hypocrisy which continues to this day and it’s something my Dad has never taken responsibility for, and then there was the coming out incident (when he found out me and my sister had arranged for me to move in with her should my Dad act the way he eventually did, he called her a stupid bitch and said he would drive down to her house and tell her to mind hr own business) and how easy it was for him to say “I’m putting you into foster care.”

    #168030

    PearceHawk
    Participant

    Myles,

    The day is beautiful! Today has never happened before. It’s truly amazing! Of all the 7+ billion people in this world, 7+ billion Myles, there is absolutely nobody like you. You have amazing strength, a huge heart, and a soul that is unbelievably wonderful! I mean it. Out of those 7+ billion people, not a single one can take away all the amazing things that make you who you are. As far as the homophobia goes, that is merely an expression of fear as seen through the life of someone who lives in narrow margins that they have designed. Sometimes I think that people who are homophobic remain so out of fear of deviating from what they have been taught. I have some gay friends, men and women, even though I am straight, and I love them forever. How can doing that and accepting gay people be so difficult? To entertain your question of “when do you decide to cut contact with people?” I don’t think there is any single answer to that. For me, I cut ties with people as soon as I see the effort to take advantage of me, to find a way to hurt me in some way. Because life is shorter than a blink of an eye, I don’t have time for people like that. I have cut ties with my 2 sisters and my step-dad, who has since passed away, and I have absolutely no shame, guilt, or regret in doing so. I have forgiven them for what they have done but this does not exonerate them for what they did.

    I’d like to attempt to answer one question you had in the title of your post. “Do you have to examine all beliefs for truth?” Please correct me if I am misunderstanding your question as I believe that what you are asking is if you have to examine all beliefs to find truth? I believe the answer is no. I think if you rely on sorting through all the beliefs out there to find truth, you are not defining truth as you know it, although I am certain other people’s belief may or may not influence your truth. People live their life according to their truth and how they define it. Even more basic than that is the question of what is truth.  Time for me to stop the babbling.

    As I always say, release your peace, live your love, and enjoy the ride. Let me k ow how you’re doing.

    Pearce
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    #168036

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Myles:

    I will definitely not say anything like  “you have to respect your parents”, no, no, no, I wouldn’t say that. When a parent is disrespectful to their child (of any age), and the child is respectful toward the… disrespectful and maybe abusive parent, doesn’t it mean that the child is respecting disrespect/ abuse?

    I think so.

    anita

    #168038

    Myles
    Participant

    @pearcehawk, Thank you, and I think it bothers me because (well, to be honest, I live in England, a pretty gay friendly country) because people’s fear motivates them to the point where they spread lies that gullible people believe. These gullible people may even go as far as trying to kill members from the group of people they’ve been told false information about, or make laws that decrease their quality of life. I guess it’s me worrying about things I feel people could do to make my life harder. And yes, that was my question. I read somewhere on this site in a post that pertained to caring what people think that when someone says something mean to yu, you should examine whether there is any truth to the belief, and if there isn’t, then let it go. But I just feel like some people really could care less about trying to help you, and just want to get their two cents in or are just plain belligerent, so why should I waste time even processing what they are saying to me?

    @anita I guess so, I’ve had social workers (I’m not sure what they’d be called in America, they are people who go around helping dysfunctional families) come and go over the years, and while they can’t MAKE me and my parents closer, after they had finished their work with my family, I felt like I was in the exact same position as before : My Dad making rules that he himself doesn’t follow, and my Mum starting arguments over things that really don’t matter that much (even when I’ve offered to compromise, she still pushes the issue.) And I think the social workers have said things like “well, we think you’ll be alright from here” because it’s like Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde when it comes to my parents around social workers, they’ll act nice (even though my Mum has instigated arguments with me around social workers) and then as soon as they’re gone, they’ll go straight back to how they were. And when I was 14, the reason my parents didn’t go through with putting me into foster care is because apparently I might get people “worse than I thought they were.” And I understand that after you have come out (which my Mum did for me as it pertains to my Dad) you should give your parents time, but I almost didn’t live to see my Dad accept me and there was a point where I may not have been their responsibility anymore. And in the three and a half years since this has happened, my Dad has gone from “you’re no longer my child” to “I disagree with your lifestyle but I accept you anyway” which I really feel was just lip service on my Dad’s part, because he told the social workers that but I have never heard him say that to me directly.

    #168042

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Myles:

    They are called social workers in the U.S. as well. You make sense, Myles. Regarding why process/ evaluate what belligerent people say, to see if there is any value in it- I agree. I suggest to evaluate such only if a person values what the other person says, only if a person already cares. If you don’t care what belligerent people say, excellent, keep it that way.

    anita

     

    #168086

    Myles
    Participant

    It just feels like if someone isn’t blatantly homophobic, they’ll use terms like “My religion says” or “I disagree with your lifestyle” as if they’re making some sort of compromise and you’re just supposed to continue being friends with that person. If people are just aloud to disagree with “immutable” characteristics, then people should be aloud to disagree with someone’s skin colour, gender identity etc. And if that’s not okay, then why is it okay for sexual orientation? It’s do disingenuous to me.

    #168092

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Myles:

    I never heard someone say or write: “I disagree with your lifestyle”- definitely not being said regarding sexual orientation. But you heard it and your comment regarding disagreeing with immutable characteristics is brilliant, says I. It is almost humorous, absurd.

    Thing with homophobia, the dislike, distaste some people have toward homosexuality, it is not a dislike a person is born with, it is “caught” from the environment, parents being the first environment and influence. Once “caught”, once such a neurological pathway has been created in the brain (the “homophobic pathway” I would term it), there it is. The purpose of laws is that no matter the pathway, people are expected to not execute their dislike in harmful behaviors.

    To the title of your thread: “To examine all beliefs for truth”- my input this morning: most often homophobia is not about rational thinking (which would call for one examining those, if one chooses). What it is about primarily is a simple dislike, a distaste, a feeling, nothing more. The rationalizations after the dislike has been formed are just that, rational that tries to justify the dislike that is already there, and so, it is not reliable rational, not one that calls for examining.

    anita

     

    #168354

    Justine
    Participant

    Hi Myles,

    I would just like to acknowledge your courage to take over your life at a very young age! I’m only 25 now but when I was 18, I could even get my parents to allow me to stay overnight with my friends!! Come here in the Philippines! People will love you! I remember growing up here, I have lots of gay friends/classmates that it was like normal thing for us. I haven’t heard of the word homophobic until I was done with college! Like why would we be afraid of gay people? They are still human beings like us! We’re no different with each other!

    When I was 20 they didn’t like the guy I was dating for 4 years because he was 7 years older than me. I don’t see this as a different case to gay people. My family is afraid for me, just like yours. And hell I didn’t care as I believe that’s the part of my life they should not have any control. Period. Cause even when the world crumbles, I’m still their daughter. It’s not my fault that they cannot accept that.

    Continue being brave Myles, you have people like us who don’t see you as a different one. Focus your energy on here on the good things/people! I promise I’ll pray for you! 🙂

    #168422

    Myles
    Participant

    Well, thank you for your comment Justine, it’s just a shame that in countries that are virulently homophobic, even if gay people have people around them that aren’t homophobic (read “decent human beings”) they are also scared into silence.

    #168428

    Myles
    Participant

    @anita I’ve just always thought “There’s a lot of things I don’t like – corn on the cob, meat that looks red when you cut into it, but who am i to go around telling people if they can or can’t eat those things?” It’s none of my business, and what kills me is when people say things like “think of the childen!” when talking about gay people, yet these people are far from perfect and are doing things FAR worse than being gay behind close doors.

    #168482

    anita
    Participant

    Dear Myles:

    Notice how people’s judgments affect even you, being the rational, intelligent, insightful person that you are: you wrote in the last sentence, “these people… are doing things FAR worse than being gay”-

    as if “being gay” is bad and there are things that are “worse”-

    We can’t help, as humans, we can’t help being affected by what people think. We all want to be liked, we all don’t want to be disliked. It is something we are born with, I believe, as the social animals that we are.

    A sexual orientation is neither good or bad, as I see it. There is no moral or ethical element to it. It just is. But we live in a world where a whole lot of people do see a moral element to it, with a whole lot of history to it, the bible is evidence to it.

    There is no point in arguing with people’s likes and dislikes, but we can do  our best, as individuals, to insert rational thinking into our lives and express it to others best we can.

    anita

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