Downward spiral and love

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This topic contains 86 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Grenada 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

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    Apple Tree,

    I am glad we can relate a little, I think this is helping me as well.

    And thank you, I am hanging in there. My heart longs for them often, I still feel them, & sad that I can not just hold them. I am also very anxious. But that’s probably because I am dealing with some other heavy things in my family, lost a family member/parent figure who was very close to me.. I think it is also why I in some ways pushed them away, I was pulling for attention and comfort that partially they could have made an effort to do something, but the other part, they can’t resolve my internal issues of loss I am dealing with in my family. So its not fair to put that all on them.

    Our communication was through social media, not texting. I sent my number but they wouldnt reach out. We never met in person, our work was online through skype. They kept communication to social media. It was alot more in the beginning but I think things got really emotional for them (me too), and they were trying to pull back to better manage their emotions. I think we took turns with struggling to manage the intense feelings and irritability from all the barriers in place making our connection difficult as well. Like them being in a committed relationship and living with their partner I think, and working together at a place where technically co-workers arent supposed to date. etc.

    There was alot of built up frustration. And they were so distant I began to pull away. so with the recent incident in my family, and them not being present, and not being open, I just felt like it was all a game. so i sent them an email and let them know i was no longer going to be reaching out, but asked them to promise to reach out if they really cared.

    Yes, finding self respect, not putting people on a pedestal, coping with anxiety is really hard. Mostly because I have an anxiety disorder that developed in my childhood from having parents who were unavailable. I also see how it affects my communication and attachment style and who i pursue.





    I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your close family member. I hope you are okay. I can imagine it was tough losing them and losing connection with the person your heart yearned for in quick succession, just when you needed someone the most. You sound very compassionate knowing you can not expect them to be there to heal the complete loss, whilst at the same time your heart kind of wants them to be to.

    I don’t have any words to say that could make it better. My thought is that this person you were talking to on social media won’t have forgotten you even if the posts look that way, although when I feel in a sad cycle it feels that they could of foregotten way, but rationally that is not true. I can understand and empathise how reaching out to someone on social media especially if you work together can lead to emotional closeness quickly and how you would crave that after having non available parents. I struggle with wanting that emotional closeness too, so when you feel like you have found it, your heart is like YES! I want more of this. Which makes the not talking and emotional distance hard to bear.

    Do you still both work for the same company? Did you hear anything back after you sent the email? In terms of people you pursued in the past do you mean people who were attached already or were not available? In my own past I have felt a need to get people to ‘like me’ even if they were not interested at all. In fact in some ways if they weren’t interested it felt more like a challenge. That sounds really stupid and like I like playing games but at the time it would not be a conscious thought, only now when I look back I see the need to be liked by those men. I always seem to go for a type of man too eg physical type and also emotional type. This is me thinking out loud but I once knew a child as part of some work experience I was doing who had a series of x”dad’s” in her life and did not feel loved by any of them nor her biological dad. This child built up a strong bond and attachment to one of my male colleagues, almost instantly. She would follow him around, hug him, cling to him and would struggle to calm down if it wasn’t for him talking to her. With everyone else she was more distant but with him she would be very open. I saw, from seeing that experience, how she saw him as “safe” and so opened up to him and also how I tend to do that with people- it tends to be men, that look a certain way and act a certain way. It is like I feel they have the “key” to me and so I trust them to be myself around and with my thoughts. With everyone else I rarely talk about my thoughts and defo not to my parents. I don’t know how to not want to do this- although I am more conscious of this as a weakness- or whether “chemistry” is like that experience- of trust without knowing why and the thought they meet something inside of us. Have you ever had that kind of experience?



    Apple Tree,

    Thank you for your kind words.

    Yes, for me being abandoned by my parents at a young age made me try my hardest to be liked in my growing years and adult years. I always dated a certain physical and emotional type. And I got a lot of knocks on my head for it, so I took two years off to myself to explore and learn in hopes I could identify the pattern & heal it. I thought i had chemistry with these past folks, but it was just my addiction to drama.

    The person I met at work, was actually completely different. Appearance wise and emotionally. We were alike in many ways & i felt true chemistry for them, something i’ve never felt before. I fought it for a while, ignored it for a while actually. I began to notice they had feelings and attraction to me, but I was distant. Maybe because I was tired of getting hurt by people. They then began to tell me how they felt, and we both had struggles opening up. I was closed off and distant. And they were vulnerable. I was also in the early stages of dating other people (toxic people similar to those from my past), so was too distracted by comfortable dysfunction and patterns didnt really notice this person. Though I felt deeply connected, a deep love for them, i didnt allow myself to feel it. One day however, I came to my senses, and felt a deep powerful love in my heart for them a deep realization of how much i truly wanted to be with them. I didnt know what to do with it, and i definitely felt it was mutual.

    We began arguing because of frustration. I also think they were upset because i had pushed them away and was talking to other people when they tried to open up to me which i hadnt known then but is extremely hard for them. If I had known that, and if my heart wasnt so buried in pain I would have responded and recognized it earlier. But I cant beat myself up about it.

    Social media i guess seem like a safe ground to communicate for us where we could get past the job, and maybe for them they didnt feel too bad about communicating with me while they still live with their partner. etc. But we’d communicate daily. I knew I was on their mind daily. And we tried so hard to work things out. But they just werent able to step out, or trust me fully, or take a is and was a difficult situation.

    But like you said in your previous post, if we truly love someone then we want them to be happy no matter what.



    Hi Grenada,

    What stood out to me in your last post was the idea of “I thought I had chemistry but it actually was addiction to drama”. I think that may have been true for me.  If you  the feel comfortable answering, please could you tell me how “chemistry/drama” feel differently to the deep and true chemistry you felt for the person you love? I don’t know the difference or haven’t felt the difference.

    You sound very strong in that fact you aren’t and haven’t been beating yourself up about not realising your feelings sooner. In my own experience I find feelings so hold to get a grasp of, so I can empathise with not seeing how you felt for a while. I think things like that can take time. It sounds frustating, and like a painful and hard situation in that they liked you and you didn’t realise and when you liked them, they admitted it to but pulled away.

    What things have you been doing to move on since they have not reached out anymore? Do you still work with them at work?  I find I am doing okay but a certain song or someone’s facial expression or way of walking or some other trigger will get to me and the emotions come right back up. I don’t know whether the sense of loss for me is also made longer by the fact that I struggle to get out of bed in the morning and actually function eg the whole world seems bleak and empty so my mind goes back to a time where I felt a sense of home and then gets caught up. There is alot of advice to stay present in the moment, but doing that just for 5 minutes a day is hard for me, it feels my head is anywhere but.



    Apple Tree,

    I appreciate your responses & Questions. This is good processing for both of us. I am headed to my daily hike/run then meditation (helps to get out of my head sometimes.) but wanted to answer this before.

    i work at a different location now. But we recently cut off all communication last week when I sent the email . They never responded to emails with emails, they just responded on social media. Weird , I know.. part of me feels like they are doing certain things not saying things for survival. Also a big part I failed to mention is then coming to terms with identity things. When they first came on to me and pursued me I also didn’t pay mind because they were in denial about their identity. There’s also a race difference and 6 year age gap. So struggle on struggle that – if we were able to overcome would be a beautiful thing for this planet in my opinion. Healing through love regardless to past things that would have made it illegal for us to be together like bans on interracial marriage etc. I also think they come from a conservative family but I don’t know. Just using my intuition and seeing patterns that I’ve noticed in other people I’ve worked with.

    drama addiction is like- deep Down you know the situation is toxic and painful, but you chase it to satisfy a part of you that wasn’t satisfied some time in childhood. A random example, if my father was never present. I may pursue men who give me just enough attention but it’s never enough, but I fight for more attention because it soothes that child self in me that needed it from my father . It’s also a control thing.

    Chemistry & true love happens in a peaceful lease resistance relaxed state. Now that doesn’t mean later on the situation can not become drama filled too. Especially if both people haven’t worked on their trauma.

    in my case we fell in love when we allowed our hearts to be open, and trusting. But we hadn’t completely worked on our childhood trauma and so we had this push pull explosiveness where though it seemed we were mad at eachother we were truly mad at ourselves. And we will always argue until we come to peace with ourselves , stop projecting & learn to trust one another. This particular soulmate is one that causes one to grow .

    but we have many soulmates. And things like this prepare us for others so we don’t make the same mistakes.

    because we recently cut off contact it is still sore for me. Waking up isn’t a problem but focusing and not letting my days waste by from wondering and ruminating has been a issue. I’m also still grieving. But it does bother me how much this person is on my mind because I’ve come to terms with regardless to why they are distant they don’t want to be together and there’s nothing I can do. I get lost in wondering about what ifs too. But I’ve just been allowing myself to talk to friends and other people where there’s some fun & love (even though I don’t see myself with them). It helps to distract myself and helps my confidence to know others are attracted to me.

    im also on a tiny dose of anxiety meds that I take as needed. My stress manifest physically so I was dealing with pains and rashes. Scared the crap out of me . I was just under intense stress I had lost so much at one time it felt.

    it heals with time. But it helps to distract self.

    also are you still with your boyfriend? It seems this situation , not knowing what you want. Fear of leaving because it’s comfortable. Then guilt is stressing you out. I don’t know if just leaving will feel freeing . I get the feeling you need to build stability and confidence in yourself over time in order to leave . By finding meaning , and doing things that can help you renew yourself bring back excitement. Maybe making just friends but new friends. Going out. Taking yourself on dates. Show yourself you can be alone and okay. Then leaving your boyfriend or not will become more clear – in terms of what to do. Just a thought .



    Hello Grenada,

    I think you are right. Talking to you is so helpful and also hopefully helps us both.

    Thankyou for your description of what drama filled chemistry is like. I do understand and can think of an example like that in my own life. You said about renewing myself and I think this also fits in so well as when you wrote the part about chemistry and drama I thought well the person I loved did bring out the best in me, but also the worst at times, so I need to think on that one. To be honest I felt like I brought out the worst in myself too and in him sometimes so I think the common person there was me. I have alot of healing to do. So much it is hard to know where to begin or if I even have begun at all.
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Thankyou for telling me more about your relationship. It sounds like the other person had alot to try and think about eg a racial difference and also identity question. When you say identity do you mean sexual identity or gender identity? Or have I misunderstood? It sounds like you live in a country where interracial marriages or relationships are taboo which sounds awful and so hard to come to terms with as love is love and so I agree, overcoming any society judgement is very much worth it and long overdue.</p>
    Do you still look at their page online or have you blocked them on it?

    I hope your hike or run goes well. I struggle to get stop my mind ruminating and nature can help that- for me it only seems to work for a short amount of time on the worst days.

    Yes, I am still with my boyfriend. The guilt does eat me up every day as does the feeling of not being authentic with him and my feelings. I do care about him and would say I loved him but it seems less intense and emotional to the love I felt for the other person. I also seem to have shut down emotionally in certain intimate situations which makes them harder. I am trying but at the same time my body doesn’t seem to register. Very hard. He is a good and kind and decent person with a good heart eg he is all the things I fell in love with but it is like my heart is shut down and nothing gets through for a time then bam, my feelings are back and I feel overwhelmed by it all. Thankyou for your suggestions about trying to build myself up more. I have times when I have done this eg joined a class or volunteered but it is not consistent and I know that must be the key as I soon go back to ruminating and feeling lost and not seeing the point of being alive etc.

    It sounds like you are doing all the things people suggest like exercising, getting outside and connecting with other people. I do have two good friends but they are often busy so I can feel lonely so I think making new friends is a good suggestion and one that may help as I know being around people makes me feel marginally less lonely and more okay.

    I hope you are doing okay and can feel less like ruminating today. I know how hard and also how kind of addicting it is to think about the past times I was happy, so I know how hard it is.



    Apple Tree,

    I live in the U.S. , interracial dating etc happens a lot more often, stuff like that, age gap & Lgbt are more accepted then it was in the past. But I could imagine coming from a conservative family would still make that hard and i think thats the case with her.

    I am a LGBT woman and she is also a woman. And she has commented she is straight, yet would come on to me and pursue me heavily. It was frustrated so i left, and she still pursued me. I asked her about it she said “I can’t do anything about my denial.” We did bring out the best and worst parts of eachother, some relationships cause us to grow. In this case, we are both service oriented people who for the most part people see us as having our stuff together. We both have been in newspapers, and are respected by our community. I think we both felt we were pretty developed and kind of had our asses on our shoulders (not towards eachother but individually). Then we met and bam, love, then bam “oh crap i havent healed all my trauma.” and we fought to heal, the inspiration came from wanting to be together, but in order to really be together we’d really have to face our inner issues and that’s scary. we ran from that too. We did work through some things, coached eachother, helped each other heal a little (it was all still distant though). as much as we could online. I know she’s in therapy now, finally.. I am happy about that. i think she was afraid to go. She sent me a snap of her in the office, I could feel her fear. Im just really in tune with her.

    But im also giving her space to let the therapy work and her clear her mind.



    In terms of relationship arguments and bringing things to surface. we live in a society now where the dating advice tells us, if the relationship has arguing or brings out certain things its all bad. but in all honesty, if someone has trauma, that’s got to come out some how. as long as when its coming up and out they are actively working to heal and remedy it- the relationship could work out. It’s necessary sometimes. People bring lessons. And soulmates should push us to grow. sometimes it takes a soulmate to inspire us to get help, because we sometimes dont help ourselves because we dont love ourselves enough. and then a soulmate comes around and makes us feel seen and loved, and then we start loving ourselves enough to want to get better. Its crap in my opinion when someone says we can not love until we love ourselves. It’s psychologically proven that having other people love us and love us right, helps us learn how to love back and love ourselves.



    Sorry Apple Tree, I should have made this in all one post but, I was forgetting what i wanted to say. lol

    I hear you with having struggles making friends. I have a lot of “friends” but we arent really close, I find it hard to let people in. I just know these people through my entertainment jobs, I do comedy and filming on the side.

    L, the person I love, also has very few people close to her i think. she doesnt havent many friends. would you say, that not having many friends has also made you hesitate with opening up? like out of fear you wouldnt know how to start a conversation or develop the connection?



    Hello Grenada,
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Thankyou for writing back. I totally get the whole bam-love thing. I am pleased she is in therapy, it sounds like she is really trying and you have had a huge effect on her life. Did she send you the snap recently? Or not since you had cut contact? I can imagine facing a change in yourself is hard as it takes you away from everything you have built up in your head about yourself but on some level deep down it sounds like she also hears what you are saying. After all if she is pursuing and flirting with you perhaps her internal head has not caught up with her heart yet. I felt the same in some ways. Doing what I did went against everything I wanted to be and was at the time eg people would of said I was a good person and would not imagine I would have an affair. I did not imagine I would either. So falling in love with someone else was like a huge shock to me and doing what I did, also. That idea of being a good person totally cracked and fell and facing that was hard at the time but also facing the truth. The truth for me was that when I was with the person he felt right to me in that the way our hands fit together or just talking. It felt like I had known him forever but feeling and thinking those things did not at all fit with who I wanted to be. I didnt want to love someone else. And all the confusion and guilt and jealousy (he has moved on and got children and married) etc was and is so painful however I can tell I have grown a small part as I do feel more compassionate and less judgment to people as who knows what they have done in the past or how they feel. I can understand now how people could get lost in drugs or drink or gambling as I think my feelings for this person was like that.</p>
    As for not opening up. I think it is more because I am scared of being hurt. People would say I am a sociable person and I am in that I get on with people at work well and can make small talk at events I go too etc but I tend to want a deep connection, gossip etc is not for me, so I guess I just have met very few people that I get and they get me back. I have tried to make connections with more people in the past eg got in contact with my old high school friend for example, but I feel because I do want deep conversations, not all the time, but as part of the friendship, not everyone wants that. I also have had friendships where I was really invested and the people left in the end eg my first best friend or my childhood best friend I have mentioned on the thread, so I am scared of them leaving. I do not know why those friendships ended. I must have been too intense or needy. So I think it is mainly fear. However with the person I loved i opened up quite quickly, it felt like be got how I was feeling and so it felt like a match. I also felt comfortable in his company, like a little bit of peace around him in a bubble so I guess that helped me upon up to. He was very wise and knew alot about stuff-9 year age gap so I also believed him alot too about stuff and also deep down on a soul level I knew alot of what he said to me was true. Like you, alot of emotional stuff came up too for me and I would change eg say I loved him and wanted to be with him, then get scared and not. Awful for him and very frustrating for me. I felt like I loved him but something in me could not make the leap. To be honest I think it was the first time, with him, I properly felt my feelings.



    I also agree with what you said about loving and someone loving you teaching you love. I felt he taught me alot of things like that. He had a very different and grown up relationship style. He was sure of himself and his boundaries and I felt like a child compared to him in emotional experience and relationship experience. He had had a few serious relationships whilst I was with my first one. He felt light years ahead of me in a wise way.



    Are you hoping after therapy she will come back to you? I hope she does. It sounds like you both really helped each other but she is in denial and it is easier for her to continue as is, rather than face facts. Sounds very much like me. But it IS easier to continue as it is what you know and safe and it takes time to admit things to yourself sometimes. She is probably scared of her feelings and what that means. And maybe also family pressure I don’t know. How old is she? Or do family play an important role in her life? It sounds like you are doing everything right and if it is meant to be, it will be.



    Apple Tree,

    I know it’s a hard thing to come to terms with but I am glad you are able to see the positive and lessons that came from it. You are allowed to not be sure, change your mind, not be ready. Not all soulmates are meant to be in our lives for ever, some are , others just wake us up, nudge us a little. If it werent for him, you probably would not have known what those feelings felt like. And now you know theres something more out there and thats a beautiful thing.

    And yes, I was just saying this the other day. I am very empathic, i feel things deeply and intensely and I like to communicate those feelings, i like to learn and have deep conversations. Not all the times, but I am a deep person. And that’s okay. Thats what boundaries are for, healthy people know how to set boundaries, and they can just say “i like talking to you, but can we talk about something lighter.” I appreciate people who know how to be honest and straightforward and communicative about their needs and wants. It’s not always all on us. Theres nothing wrong with being deep.

    I, like a a-hole cut it off right after she sent me the Well she also posted a video on her social media about what healthy boundaries looked like. And she said if people cross those, then they arent right for us. And I thought about how my boundary was, i wanted her to be honest and reach out, and she hasnt been honest nor has she reached out. I was fighting for us, and she was fighting herself. So i ended it after that because , she was right about boundaries. I think she gave up on herself. But i was cool with it, because she was atleast in therapy. I do still check on her. lowkey compulsive but, i miss her. alot. but , the more time passes, i check less. or im less anxious.

    She’s older than me, but i felt older spiritually if that makes sense. I think she felt embarrassed by the fact that i was younger but was able to teach her certain things and also bring out things she hasnt fully worked on. I think she felt she should have known better. She also struggles with her intense emotions and pulling back and fear of intimacy and i think she is ashamed of that too. And i wish i could convey to her, how much i understand , as ive dealt with similar things.



    Have you told her how much you understand her shame and fear about intimacy and getting close to people or was she not ready to hear it at the time?

    It does make sense about being older spiritually. She must have felt that too. For me it felt very frustrating to feel so young compared to him but at the same time alot of what he said was right and true and a part of me knew that. This could have happened with her in that on a deep level she agreed with you but on a surface levels she fought against it as wasn’t ready to hear it. I feel such shame when I look back now at that as I know it was just like a knee jerk reaction and he knew that I think but got frustrated with me when I was being slow and an idiot.

    I did not ever think about someone else saying about boundaries. I have felt awkward in the past about how much to say and often held back or let everything out- like with the person- as it is so rare to find someone that gets it. I am always scared of being too much and pushing people away. Some people have alot of friends and people to hang out with and I sometimes feel jealous. I don’t want to be pushy or over friend my current 2 friends as I know they have Their lives too. It feels like I am asking too much of them.

    I agree it is a beautiful thing to know those feelings are out there but I also struggle. I am a coward for not going after those feelings ? Do I need to as a human? Can I live with not going after them? I didn’t truely believe in soulmates until I met him then I did. It made it all make sense.



    Don’t beat yourself up. It’s a learning process. Everybody’s got something to learn and this particular thing is something you are learning. And it will help you later on.

    I communicated that to her yes. I also began to over communicate and make assumptions as my frustration increased. I then began to push her away, i think honestly i was acting crazy at times. lol I didnt care how emotional i was i just kind of lost myself. I need to learn my limits and i did, and part of it felt good to act out. and she acted out. and we usually cant do that because of how people see us. but then it just was frustrating again because she wasnt in a place to fully come forward. Shes got a lot to work through, sexuality, her current partnership, family, her job, probably finances, her mental health. that’s going to take some time to heal and resolve.

    We all get scared. fear teaches us to educate ourselves. fear dissipates with learning the facts. again, don’t  beat yourself up.

    Yes when i am making friends i struggle with feeling like a burden. I have countless memories of meeting up with new friends and hanging out and having fun, but after like 25 minutes I start thinking “arnt they tired of me yet?” “What if they are ready to leave?” “Maybe they are being nice and just wont say they are ready to leave.” Then i do something stupid like ask them “so what time are you heading out?” then they feel pushed away.. and I have to word vomit and explain “no noo, I just feel like a burden at times.” then they cheer me up, and Im a huge puddle on the side walk outside a random ice cream shop.. like get it together Grenada seriously… lmao

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