Home→Forums→Relationships→I thought he was my forever til the end
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December 2, 2020 at 1:49 pm #370369AnonymousGuest
Dear Katie:
I will reply more at length to your recent post later, probably by tomorrow morning. I am somewhat confused about the PTSD diagnosis, that’s why I asked about the Trauma part in it. PTSD originally was about the Trauma being a battlefield emotional trauma in veterans. Years ago, the concept of Complex PTSD (C-PTSD) was introduced regarding children and adults who suffered repeated abuse as children.
Did you hear of C-PTSD, did her doctor mention anything about it?
anita
December 3, 2020 at 9:54 am #370383AnonymousGuestDear Katie:
I asked you about the Trauma in your daughter’s diagnosis of PTSD. You answered that your daughter suffered abuse by her father starting at about the age of six: she witnessed him “smashing objects.. punched holes in walls”, “talk very loudly in the house… screamed in her face, ‘If you don’t stop crying, I’m going to punch you in the f’n face!'”, and she witnessed him verbally and physically abusing her mother.
PTSD was included in the third Diagnostical and Statistical Manual, DSM-3, in 1980, to include the lingering effects of combat stress suffered by a large number of American combat veterans of the Vietnam War. Later on, the concept of Complex PTSD was developed and submitted to the DSM-4 and DSM-5 committees, but it was not approved. Nonetheless, CPTSD is used in the context of professional psychotherapy in the treatment of children and adults who have suffered repeated trauma (chronic maltreatment, abuse, neglect, witnessing domestic violence, etc.) in childhood, by a parent or parents (psychology. wikia. org/ cptsd).
For these children, PTSD and the treatment for it is not adequate because the complexity of chronic, or repeating trauma during childhood, by a parent, during the time the brain is forming (multiple connections take place) – cause damage that is significantly more complex than damage caused by trauma during adulthood outside the childhood home.
The complexity of damage, as described in the website I mentioned is about damage in seven domains (the following are quotes, except for what’s in parentheses):
1. Attachment- uncertainty about the reliability and predictability of the world, distrust and suspiciousness, social isolation, interpersonal difficulties, difficulties attuning to other people’s emotional states and points of view.
2. Biology- hypersensitivity to physical contact, analgesia (ex., being hit but not feeling the pain), somatization (vague physical complaints), increased medical problems.
3. Affect or emotional regulation- easily aroused, high intensity emotions, difficulty deescalating (difficulty calming down), difficulty describing feelings and internal experiences, chronic and pervasive depressive mood or sense of emptiness and deadness, chronic suicidal preoccupation, overinhibition or excessive expression of anger.
4. Dissociation- distinct alterations in states of consciousness, amnesia, depersonalization and derealization.
5. Behavioral control- poor modulation of impulses, self destructive behavior, aggressive behavior, sleep disturbances, eating disorders, substance abuse, oppositional behavior, excessive compliance.
6. Cognition- difficulties in attention regulation and executive functioning, problems focusing on and completing tasks, difficulty planning and anticipating, learning difficulties, problems with language development.
7. Self concept- lack of continuous and predictable sense of self, low self esteem, feelings of shame and guilt, generalized sense of being ineffective in dealing with one’s environment, belief that one has been permanently damaged by the trauma”.
Does this match your daughter’s symptoms?
anita
- This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by .
December 3, 2020 at 11:56 am #370387KatieParticipantHi Anita,
Yes, what you describe is my daughter, and I have heard of complex PTSD.
I read a book entitled, “No Comfort Zone; Notes on Living with PTSD” written by Marla Handy, who has C-PTSD. And yes, as you describe, this is different from PTSD that is associated with war veterans. The difference described in the book is that the war veteran had a normal life, was thrown into an abnormal life (war), and now has to get back to the normal life they had before war. The C-PTSD individual has no “normal” to go back to. Trauma from a young age. Now they have to break the connections their brains made and reform those connections. Hence, therapy.
My daughter is trying her best to move forward. She is no longer cutting. She has issues going on job interviews because her old coping skills of recognizing threats takes over. She battles this. At this point I’m thinking about having her go on disability (SSI) to have some kind of income, because I’m it.
I’m hopeful that she will have a fulfilling life. She’s a kind soul and deserves a good life.
Katie
December 3, 2020 at 12:25 pm #370389AnonymousGuestDear Katie:
I googled the book you mentioned, I wanted to read quotes or excerpts from it. The Comfort in “No Comfort Zone” refers to that the absence of Normal before the childhood trauma, and therefore no Normal to return to.
“Now they have to break the connections their brains made”- more like add new connections to the old, strengthening the new connections through practice, building on them, expanding them, and over time all that expansion takes over/ become more powerful than the old connections- a very gradual, slow process leading the CPTSD sufferer to a Comfort Zone, a Normal, for the first time in her life.
Did your daughter ever practice slow, mindful yoga or Tai Chi (a very slow motion form of martial arts)? These physical practices literally slow down that rushing of the brain- that mental/ emotional rushing that leads to (a) getting overwhelmed and withdrawing from any activity that causes stress, and (b) impulsive/ self destructive behaviors.
anita
December 4, 2020 at 6:31 am #370442KatieParticipantHi Anita,
She has never tried these things. I have brought up yoga to her before. With COVID and the absence of classes being held inside or outside (too cold), she would need to stream from YouTube or the like. I can try to have her perhaps do a class with me, but she’s very reluctant to any form of exercise, which is not good. I talk with her about the mind body connection and the benefit of exercise. Sometimes she’s so down she could care less.
I just got back on my treadmill yesterday after losing interest in a few months because of the bf issues, and how I didn’t feel like doing anything. In the past, my treadmill was part of my daily routine; if I missed a day it bothered me. Now, as I ease back into it, I’m cutting myself a break. Ease back…baby steps. Yesterday I just decided I needed to get me back, and that was the first thing I thought of…my treadmill.
I mentioned to my daughter that I got back on the treadmill, and how she might benefit from that as well. She wasn’t too keen on the idea.
I also have decided that I’m going to learn how to play the piano. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do, and a friend told me there are great classes on YouTube, even for beginners. That will be my gift to myself. I just need to get the portable piano. Who knows, maybe even my daughter will want to learn as well.
Bf still contacts me. He dreams about me and thinks about me when he wakes up. I know he misses me. This would be much easier for me if this was not during holiday time.
Katie
December 4, 2020 at 8:01 am #370450AnonymousGuestDear Katie:
Glad to read you are back to the treadmill. Did I mention to you that I have a treadmill too? Funny how I got it: a neighbor’s wife used to take the daily walk outside that I take. One day she was chased by a bear and got so scared that she didn’t dare do the walk anymore. So, her husband bought her a treadmill. Some time later she died and he offered the treadmill to me one day while I was on my walk. Later he died (they were both elderly) and I still use their treadmill- their legacy in my life!
I am not expecting yoga classes in-person to resume any time soon, not at the height of the pandemic. But when classes do resume, if I was you, I would sign your daughter to a class and make it a condition for her living with you- to attend that class. I can’t see any other way to motivate her to try something new.
Regarding “bf” who is still contacting you to tell you that he dreams about you and thinks about you when he wakes up- how do you feel about it, does it feed your hope? And .. does he say anything else???
anita
December 4, 2020 at 9:28 am #370462KatieParticipantHi Anita,
As you know, I am always hopeful. I feel he and I both know there was a time when everything was very easy and right. Our lives were very intertwined. He was my best friend. The challenges of this past year have harmed me in ways that will take some time to undo. Trust being one of them. I protected my heart after my abusive ex, and when you let someone in, and they end up harming you again, you feel you cannot trust anyone…not with your heart.
He says “we waited until our lives were at the end of our existence in this world. Our youth long gone.” Which I can only interpret as we came together later in life to be together until the end. Our youth (past) is long gone.” My thought was….I’ve been saying this for a year!
I’ll be honest in saying it feels good that he thinks of me, and, as my psychologist would say, of course he is. But, I need to know what’s going on in therapy. That question will be asked this weekend when he contacts me.
Katie
December 4, 2020 at 9:50 am #370463AnonymousGuestDear Katie:
“it feels good that he thinks of me”- I can’t argue with feeling good, we all need to feel good from time to time, otherwise, life is an unbearable drag. Maybe feeling better after taking him recently motivated you to go back to the treadmill (?)
I am curious about what is happening in his therapy: are you sure that he is still attending therapy? And.. you have no clue whatsoever about what has been happening there?
anita
December 7, 2020 at 9:11 am #370641AnonymousGuestDear Katie:
How are you.. how was your weekend?
anita
December 7, 2020 at 9:22 am #370642KatieParticipantHi Anita,
This weekend I put up my tree and my daughter and I decorated it yesterday. I did put a few things around the house….my snowpeople collection and some things my kids made by hand as youngsters that I can’t part with (noodle wreaths).
Bf did contact me. He asked me, “What do you think is going to happen to us?” I said, that depends on your therapy. I told him I am not sitting with him in therapy, and that I don’t know what’s discussed. I told him my therapist advised a session together. Bf asked “with your therapist?” I said, no, with yours, but mine would be willing to have the session. The discussion pretty much ended at this point. I’m not sure if he wants to speak with his therapist.
We’ll see what happens.
Katie
December 7, 2020 at 9:40 am #370646AnonymousGuestDear Katie:
Your daughter and you putting up the Christmas tree and decorating- that’s quality family time
When he asked you: “What do you think is going to happen to us?”- I wish you asked him in return: what do you want to happen to us, or: is there something you want to happen to us?
If you asked him, what do you think he’d say?
anita
December 7, 2020 at 12:08 pm #370658KatieParticipantHi Anita,
I don’t know what he’d say. Perhaps “I don’t know.” Perhaps I should ask him; say to him yesterday you asked me this… I’d like to know what do you think is going to happen to us?
Do you think?
Katie
December 7, 2020 at 1:39 pm #370664AnonymousGuestDear Katie:
I think that it is a good idea to ask him “what do you think is going to happen to us?”, or what I suggested- to ask him: “what do you want to happen to us” or “is there something you want to happen to us”?
Notice all that hoping you’ve been expressing from the beginning of your thread-
Nov 2: “I love him and am so hopeful... I am still hopeful but exhausted emotionally.. Hopefully this therapist will guide him to a good place”, Nov 3: “I hope his therapist is a good one”, Nov 4: “I’m hopeful that he can get his OCD under control.. I hope his therapist is qualified to help him”, Nov 5: “hopefully things will progress from there. I’m hoping she deals with his inadequacies from high school..”, Nov 6: “But here I am.. forever hopeful“, Nov 8: “I still hope his therapy is helping.. I feel like I need to start signing my posts as ‘Hopeful in NJ‘ (like ‘Sleepless in Seattle)”, Nov 9: “today is a bad day. I am hopeful tomorrow will be better”. Nov 10: “I’m still hopeful that his therapy is helping.. hoping he would get better to be the better that I deserve… I am hoping for his change to what he was before.. I hope that man from a few years ago returns”… (I am skipping many posts and a few pages, all the way to this page, page 13), Dec 4: “As you know, I am always hopeful“.
But Katie, what is the basis in reality for all this hoping?
Here are the difficulties I see: (a) He hasn’t shared with you what’s been happening in his therapy, or what he is trying to accomplish there (did he?)
(b) You offered to join him in therapy- he hasn’t been interested yet.
(c) He expressed anger at you, told you that his therapist recommended that he doesn’t contact you too much because “he’s too angry with me”, “he is angry at me because he thinks I am the cause of his suffering.. He plays the victim role very well”; during the 3rd session with his therapist, the one you joined him at the end of last year, the therapist told him: “this is not Katie’s problem, this is your problem”, and bf “didn’t like that; he felt it was a relationship problem”-
– All these elements: his anger at you, seeing you as the cause of his suffering, playing the victim role well.. and not wanting you in therapy with him.. all this does not form a base to all that hoping!!?
All your hoping is leaving you sad and exhausted and anxious. Time to find out what is happening in concrete terms instead of just waiting and hoping.
anita
December 7, 2020 at 1:44 pm #370665KatieParticipantHi Anita,
I agree….completely.
Katie
December 7, 2020 at 2:33 pm #370674AnonymousGuestDear Katie:
It is your right to know where he is at mentally and emotionally. Ask a direct question and accept nothing less than a truthful answer that you (and I, if you share it with me) can understand.
anita
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