You appear to be at constant war with yourself

Though first you have to define “yourself” cause i got no definition

If you say its your nature, basic needs, dreams and desires, i wouldn’t agree, because i don’t like to be told who to be, or what to be, i will be an animal in people eyes, just because i want to, now the good question would be, why? Why i want such thing? Is this why can be changed? No, why? Cause the person having this, sees no problem with it, what else to do then? Tell me, peter, whats the next logical step? And be harsh, i didn’t see your replay as harsh.

Probably a illusion

The thing is, without this illusion, without any illusions and false hopes, life is just one ugly bitch.

You want relationship but only on your terms which isn’t relationship

My terms are fair though, not realistic though, at least not where i live, but yeah i dropped the idea of relationships long time ago, when i knew its my falut, It would be helpful if you quote me, to understand which part that i said that make you think that.

You desire dialog while determined not to look past your certainties,

I have no certainties, only doubts, lots and lots of doubts, about everything and anything, a never ending doubt.

and then act surprised when you didn’t get anywhere.

Never surprised, i actually expected this lifestyle, and expected it will be this bad, what i didn’t expect, is that i will face the consequences more then often, should’ve expected that as well, but it would take years to do so.

I imagine your reply that only a normal person would think that.

No, its only a defense mechanism, you have to understand where i live, how people see me, and what they assume when i tell just one thing about my life, imagine being told lies after lies after lies, and the lies being pushed as the truth, the truth wouldn’t matter anymore, the lie became the truth, and if you ever think differently, then you deserve isolation, misunderstood, judged, blamed, shamed, gulited, thats the normal, and when i told you, you trigger it, by blaming, you didn’t mean to, and im sorry for my response, but it hurts.

Your life philosophy is contradiction and unskillful even if reasoned or illusion

I would suggest otherwise, because here i am, alive, so it was skillfull by making me survive, is it true? I don’t think so, is it helpful? Definitely, the more i live, the more i realize i made the best solution, the second best, you know the first.

So honest with your self you lost sight of your self

What self? The one was giving to me by society? The one that was giving by my father and mother parenting? Thier qualities and desires and dreams? Yikes, i perfer the one i created, the one that i control, the non people pleaser, the not weak one, the not so given up to societal ideas, the one that doesn’t care wether basic needs are met or not, the unhuman one, the one that is nearly a god, a monster, an animal, the one that doesn’t care about anything, doesn’t have any values or dreams, the one thats not under any control, the one that is the only person i trust, the one that makes me feel good, the one that is so comforting, the one that is smart, and doesn’t make luck decide his distany.

I sound crazy, well i might be, the thing is, if i am, there is no solution, and people help often are just projection (i don’t mean you) they often tells you what you need to do, because they value such thing, they often advice you, using thier logic and thier point of view, i realized “help” is just a made up word, a made up concept, for the people who believe such illusion, such silly idea, who can a person helps me? With words? With actions? All doesn’t work, all is meaninglessness.

One half your world is real the other half denied expression.

I had to deny my basic needs, either way im not getting them, so why not remove them?

You use words to define, contain and make things small.  For you I wonder if the map has not become the territory

“Nothing is true, everything is permitted” add to that a silliness, a sense that life is a complete joke, sometimes unfunny, a clown theater, so yes, i treat life, as everything is just a joke, never serious.

I don’t mean to me harsh, or maybe I do. I don’t know, it happens

You were nice, at least you didn’t write anything abstract lol.

What is it you really expect from such dialog

Honestly ? The worse, which is either being misunderstood, or the expected thing, which is to be ignored, sometimes i will just make a post to prove to myself the latter, and that norimes, truely don’t understand me, or don’t want anything to do with me, imagine this is online, so what happens when i say half this, in a country that value work and being a man, that believe in a supernatural things, and anyone who don’t believe it, is either crazy or just pathetic, because he is going to hell, im way ahead of my time, too ahead that its impossible to live with such people.

My only friend, the only person who looked like me, lived like me, thinked like me, decide to actually do it, the thing is, what he said “you either die or live long enough to humiliate yourself” i Choosed the latter, i choosed apathy, to sacrifice my basic needs and feelings and desires and dreams, in order to survive, what a great cost, soild my humanity for few years, what a silly decision, now i can’t go back, nothing gonna stop me now.

‘I’ want change, ‘I’ cant change, ‘I’ don’t want to change.  The ‘I’ does not exit, the self does not exit???

I suppose you mean exist?

To make it clear, the human part of me desire things, basic needs, i need those, not to survive, but to live better, but there is a belief/desire/goal that conflict with these, lately this conflict becomes lesser and lesser, those goals/belief/desire won over the human needs/desires.

Only you can define the word self

What self? I believe there is no center of a self, but only desire/belief/goals that was pushed to you by luck, and yes the one i stand for are also pushed by environment and genes, so “I” really didn’t create anything, just following my programming.

not the ego, not thoughts, not emotions, not even experiences, only a means to communicate.

Here we go with the abstract, i think when you talk to people, you should use a language they understand, not everyone is smart and abstract like you.

So where is your doubt?

When i finished last time post and posted it, after feeling a little sad, i said to myself “why make such post, i clearly don’t believe in most of what i said?” “Who cares?”

A person that can accept the reality that nothing is certain and learns to embraces doubt would not experience so much existential angst.

I actually don’t experience such existential angst, i live very comfortablly, but when i right a post i tend to exaggerate, most of these thoughts are in the back of my head, that appears very little in my life.

Perhaps that is the next ‘logical’ step – practice embracing the doubt you assume your living in.

No lol, the next logical step is to do it, anything less would be problematic, embracing or not, i will still live the same way, the belief/desire/goal, won’t be changed, its a self defeating thing, in order to change them, you have to change them first.

even surprise… Curiosity, maybe the next moment will be different.

Living life, i understood its an illusion, the next moment is the same, my life is the same, my values and beliefs is the same, im getting older, life getting hotter and harder, and i still have this idea in the back of my head, that has no proof, “the future is open, anything could happen” what i fail to understand, is nothing gonna happen unless i do something about it.

Curiosity, I think implies hope,

i don’t label it as “hope” or “good” only truth, the truth is, wether i like it or not, the future is open, and you can’t know it no matter what. But i understood that’s not entirely true, you can guess the future based on your present desires and beliefs, and well mine are fucked, so yeah

If ‘its’ all illusion pick a good one.

I refuse to pick any illusions, i refuse to follow anything that aren’t true, if that means misery, so be it, i won’t fool myself, just to live, i won’t cope with a fantasy, not anymore.

With whom?

Someone that likes me.

You are offended if I say that your reasoning is partially caused by childhood trauma. But why?

No, that’s not what you said in the past, here i accept this.

But what if you’ve experienced trauma, and you’re worthy and lovable and special regardless?

The same thing you doing here, blaming me as if i don’t love myself, your response implies thats its my falut people don’t like me, i have one word, prove it.

Prove to me that people like me, love me, accept me, understand me, for who i am, despite my beliefs and values, my experience and reasoning say otherwise, not only they gonna misunderstand me, but hate me, hopefully ignore me, and believe me its not because what i say, i can be very nice, to the right people, but no matter how nice i am, they won’t like me.

What if you’re not a loser

I don’t see myself as a loser, people do, i see nothing wrong with myself, i accepted it, people have a trouble doing that, you included.

But you despise healing because it means you’d need to change something about your life and your thinking, and you don’t want to change anything. You’re afraid that if you change, you’d lose your individuality, your uniqueness

And why individuality matters to me more then “healing”?

Also if i remember correctly, “healing” that you suggested was to love myself in the way you want to, i also remember you saying its impossible without people, i don’t want to give my reasoning again to why i said no people, i simply don’t have such resources, and in order to have such resources i have to change to be accepted by society, and im talking where i live, iraq, there is no one that knows the word “trauma” even if i find such person, he would be so brainwashed by society, that he will try to change me, my past therapist is a fair example, you is a fair example, no matter what i say, what excuse i give, what argument i provide, you won’t accept me, nor like me, why bother?

because you rejected everyone (except anita)

And why only anita that i didn’t reject? Because she understood, she had similar experience herself, she accepted, liked me, never projected nor judged, if its a me problem, i wouldn’t find anyone that will agree with me, especially someone that we both know that is intelligent.

Those people tried to help you,

I know, but thier help isn’t needed, thier help isn’t help, not to me.

 I said there is a way to get out of your misery

Yes, by watching YouTube and meditate everyday, i hate this, i can’t control how sick it makes me feel.

An animal doesn’t love itself in the way humans do

I don’t believe am in animal, it’s just an exaggeration, to what i sacrificed in order to live, sacrificed my feelings and desires.

So how are you an animal?

My defintion of an animal is this “a living thing who only main goal is survival” a huamn to me, is “something greater, who can get over his animalistic desires” so huamn should have greater goal other then survival, if that isn’t met, i think its best that he off himself, if he isn’t living as human.

And if others don’t accept it, you believe they don’t accept you

Who is the other you?

If the person has the intention to heal, they can do a lot of work by themselves

I don’t, and i explained why, its something i can’t change, because i don’t want to, i don’t want to heal because i believe its bullshit, i also believe that the end is the same, and that i shouldn’t really bother with changing something, these belief, were inherited, by my environment and genes, though you don’t like to hear that, its too complicated, too troubling for your world view, so i will say what you like, its my fault, i did this, i alone.

It doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that you live in Iraq

Funny, a friend of mine who has GAD, i told him there is a way to relieve this, he was like “no i will have this the rest of my life, i feel like its gonna kill me one day” he had the same mindset, close minded, doesn’t subscribe to this positive stuff.

my big sister who had pain in her teeths, refused to go to the doctor for over two years, and developed apathy, when i asked her why don’t you just go, she replied “i don’t like doctors, they gonna start advice me on how i should take care of my teeths” i told her that the longer she have this pain, the more apathy she developed, and if you develop enough there will be a point of no return, she replied “im already there”

My little sister, who spend the whole day, not even saying a word to anyone, hardly even care about living, more apathetic then i ever was, so shut off.

So no its not where i live, because environment doesn’t shape me at all, if i told you, i am the least depressed person in the family,  you won’t believe me.

But even this won’t make you accept me, or change how you view me, no matter what i say, you will still believe i don’t like myself.

you too have access to those resources. But you simply don’ want it.

Because i desperately want the other option, the people option, to be accepted and understood, to be loved, and i can’t seem to accept anything less, its so lonely to watch videos, i want people for god sake, connection.

If you fully and completely accepted yourself, you wouldn’t be looking for acceptance from people online

So would you live completely alone, loving yourself and accepting yourself, knowing that most people won’t, i thought we are social animals, this is just frustrating, no matter what reasons i give, you still convinced of this.

You wouldn’t want me – a random stranger on the internet – to like you,

You aren’t just a complete stranger, you are human, and im human, i would feel good knowing a human likes me, to challenge my belief that says “most people won’t”, knowing that its because of who i am, not because of anything else, i wish i was something you would like, i truely do, i wish that i had the desire to change to be liked by a person like you, not only you but most people, the thing is, i know that somethings can make people love me, some superficial things, money, looks, but i sadly don’t subscribe to this kinda superficial shit, i wish i did, but i know if they like me because of these reasons, it wouldn’t matter.

Not only you don’t accept me, you never will, and you represent most people, because this mentally is common, if you are true, that i don’t love myself, and that im wrong with my reasoning (you don’t believe/ dismiss my arguments) anita wouldn’t agree with me, she wouldn’t have to continue talking to me if she didn’t think  im honest, maybe, Just maybe, you are wrong? You ever thought of that? But no, you are very smart to be wrong, you will never drop your belief that i don’t love myself, no matter how much reasons and arguments i gave, you just ignore them, it seems, hmm… i don’t know, arrogant?

Even though i dropped mine about that you are a norime, and continue talking to you, and never made fun of your belief, tell me, if i was super nice, super polite, but had the same beliefs and lifestyle, would you like me? You won’t answer ofcourse, now you know why i called you a norime, now i know that it was best to avoid replaying to you, just makes me sad.

Why do i still try then? Because i like you, sadly, i do, i like the person you are, what you do here, how nice and understanding you are, i like you emotionally, but this can fade away, when the mind part interfere, when i decides its not worth it, when i control my feelings, and explain to myself, that it isn’t my fault she won’t like me.

This is how much im desperate for human connection, this is how much im desperate for females to like me, but i won’t let it control my actions, i won’t do anything, to be liked, i will only do what i want, what i please, its misery, but at least im in control, not them.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Murtaza.